The controversy revolving around Guild Wars 2 supposed lack of endgame continues. It’s about time we had an expert on the show that has had at least as much game time as our resident expert Rubi Bayer. We introduce to you the winner of the Guild Wars 2 Ambassador video contest, Dan Workman. For the first half of the show, we place Dan in the line of fire allowing him to explain the exciting intricacies of the GW2 dungeon system and how unlike most themepark MMOs the endgame for Guild Wars 2 is pretty similar to what the player has been doing before he hit max level.

Not only has Gary Gannon invited Dan Workman to the show but also two of Massively‘s senior staff and huge Guild Wars fans, Community Manager Rubi Bayer and Editor-in-Chief Shawn Schuster. Fans have more questions that answers about ArenaNet‘s up-coming MMO, but GAMEBREAKER is here to bring you its answers and educated speculation in your source for updates and news: GuildCast!

~ Larry “Shaddoe” Everett | t | f | g+

Catch all the latest Guild Wars 2 and other MMO news from GAMEBREAKER:
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Also follow the hosts here:
Gary Gannon’s twitter –> http://twitter.com/garygannon
Rubi Bayer’s Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 column –> http://massively.joystiq.com/category/flameseeker-chronicles/
Shawn Shuster on Massively –> http://massively.joystiq.com/editor/shawn-schuster

  • Derek Basey

    Haven’t watched yet, but…

    All I have to say is that MMO gamers need to get past the idea of ‘endgame.’ I foresee GW2 taking the first step in the right direction (for AAA games) away from this mindset. I also expect to see more ‘sandpark’ titles as we continue in that direction. We must learn to stray away from the traditional ‘endgame’ design or we’ll continue to see more and more WoW clones and no innovation in the genre.

  • Derek Basey

    Haven’t watched yet, but…

    I must say that MMO gamers need to get past the idea of ‘endgame.’ I foresee GW2 taking the first step in the right direction (for AAA games) away from this mindset. I also expect to see more ‘sandpark’ titles as we continue in that direction. We must learn to stray away from the traditional ‘endgame’ design or we’ll continue to see more and more WoW clones and no innovation in the genre. 

    I’d also like to mention that wherever the industry is at, ArenaNet is on the other end. They’ve made most of their success this way, and I have no doubt that they will continue this trend. Will have more thoughts to discuss after watching tonight.

  • http://www.minimit.com Riccardo Caroli

    I cheer this decision of arena net not to do endgame raiding but instead a open world endgame.

    This remembers me the times of ultima online when the fun was going around and do stuff in an open world without the need to do party or raid, I think this promote better socialization.

    And also the open pvp side that is similar to the dark age of camelot, will be so much fun!!!

    It’s wow that fed us with a consumer type of mmorpg at the cost of open gameplay.

    Nice show btw!

  • http://www.minimit.com Riccardo Caroli

    I cheer this decision of arena net not to do endgame raiding but instead a open world endgame.

    This remembers me the times of ultima online when the fun was going around and do stuff in an open world without the need to do party or raid, I think this promote better socialization.

    And also the open pvp side that is similar to the dark age of camelot, will be so much fun!!!

    It’s wow that fed us with a consumer type of mmorpg at the cost of open gameplay.

    Nice show btw!

  • Darryl Kerr

    I’d personally like to see some larger scale dungeons like 8 to 10 man dungeons. It doesnt have to be the “endgame” that everyone calls it. I prefer not to have the grind for gear wheel that WoW has become. I’ve been there and done that and i’m tired of it but what I will miss is having a somewhat larger group being coordinated and taking down harder content/bosses. Open world PvE I just don’t think will fill that hole completely. It will be interesting on its own but still lacking something.

    • Anonymous

      I can understand that. I’m glad for the 5 man setup though. GW1 had 8 man dungeons and people rarely formed a full group for them. Heroes & speed clears were the reason they didn’t flop.

      5 man allows for strategic play without needing an active guild to fill the group. Having 8 people on Ventrilo gets kind of hectic anyway ;)

      I think you’ll enjoy the gear system. It’s ramped up from GW1 but still similar in design. There is a progression plateau. You won’t need to grind your ass off to get the top gear. The ultra rare gear will only be different aesthetically. There is a upgrade system that lets you remove/add stats to gear.

  • Darryl Kerr

    I’d personally like to see some larger scale dungeons like 8 to 10 man dungeons. It doesnt have to be the “endgame” that everyone calls it. I prefer not to have the grind for gear wheel that WoW has become. I’ve been there and done that and i’m tired of it but what I will miss is having a somewhat larger group being coordinated and taking down harder content/bosses. Open world PvE I just don’t think will fill that hole completely. It will be interesting on its own but still lacking something.

    • JJGlyph

      I can understand that. I’m glad for the 5 man setup though. GW1 had 8 man dungeons and people rarely formed a full group for them. Heroes & speed clears were the reason they didn’t flop.

      5 man allows for strategic play without needing an active guild to fill the group. Having 8 people on Ventrilo gets kind of hectic anyway ;)

      I think you’ll enjoy the gear system. It’s ramped up from GW1 but still similar in design. There is a progression plateau. You won’t need to grind your ass off to get the top gear. The ultra rare gear will only be different aesthetically. There is a upgrade system that lets you remove/add stats to gear.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/V3HR6CMXI5WF5PXOHJV4Z5XPJA Yoh

    Making the game itself an endgame does sound unusual when put that way, it also has little to do with the fact that the game will have dungeons, they are just content.
    It it the completely different direction to basic social interactions that will make everyday MMO experiences feel like endgame.  Deep and meaningful, and full of social interactions.

    The emergent property of removing various social barriers in their mechanics will enable people in interact in meaningful ways, regardless of level, class, guild, or race.
    People will be able to ad-hoc join groups of near limitless number almost effortlessly, and still be able to make meaningful contributions and be rewarded as such.

    Where in current gen MMO’s would have you painstakingly organize around mechanical limitations, often at endgame where everyone plateaued out, in Guild Wars 2 you will be able to group to raid size with little to no effort or organization at all, right from level 1.
    This kind of deep and meaningful raid experience, will be an almost daily event.

    If this doesn’t turn the industry on it’s head, I don’t know what will.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/V3HR6CMXI5WF5PXOHJV4Z5XPJA Yoh

       A second point I wanted to bring up was this mythology of end game that has sprung up over the years, and why in Guild Wars 2 this rush to the end game issue that we see in modern day MMO’s will not at all be a problem.

      One only needs look at history to see why.  When WoW first launched we didn’t see people ‘rush to endgame’, the entire idea would have been absurd as it is in just about any single player game.
      Reason being is that at the time is that the content was new and innovative, not of substance, but in terms of presentation and execution.  Like a candle in the dark.

      The whole leveling and gear gameplay had never been so easy in and MMO before, so it wasn’t a problem, and people took their time with it, and enjoyed themselves.
      And at end game things got even better, when people caught up to each other, and with not much else to do they organized and did content together (ie meaningful social interactions), it just so happened that that content was raids.

      The problem came when every idiot publisher and developer that could rub two dollars together wanted to replicated WoW’s results by replicating it’s game mechanics.
      And so we have had years of pretty much the same game with a few little ‘tweaks’, but the same fundamental design.

      And the thing about this particular content is while it is fun the first few times you do it, it gets extraordinarily dull after a few hundred hours of play.
      And since the ‘end game’ is where the deeper social interaction lay, why just not skip past all the puerile crap and see if end game is done any better?

      And since then a culture has built up around it.

      The reason Guild Wars 2 won’t have this problem is what I eluded to before, you will get your meaningful social interaction early and often, with little effort on your part.
      Rushing to endgame would be like eating cake, then saying “oh, I’ve got to stop eating so I can rush down to the store to buy some cake, because I really want to eat some…”

      Once people realize they are eating cake, they’re going to stop to savor it.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/V3HR6CMXI5WF5PXOHJV4Z5XPJA Yoh

    Making the game itself an endgame does sound like hyperbole when put that way, it also has little to do with the fact that the game will have dungeons, they are just content.
    It it the completely different direction to basic social interactions that will make everyday MMO experiences feel like endgame.  Deep and meaningful, and full of social interactions.

    The emergent property of removing various social barriers in their mechanics will enable people in interact in meaningful ways, regardless of level, class, guild, or race.
    People will be able to ad-hoc join groups of near limitless number almost effortlessly, and still be able to make meaningful contributions and be rewarded as such.

    Where in current gen MMO’s would have you painstakingly organize around mechanical limitations, often at endgame where everyone plateaued out, in Guild Wars 2 you will be able to group to raid size with little to no effort or organization at all, right from level 1.
    This kind of deep and meaningful raid experience, will be an almost daily event.

    If this doesn’t turn the industry on it’s head, I don’t know what will.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/V3HR6CMXI5WF5PXOHJV4Z5XPJA Yoh

      A second point I wanted to bring up was this mythology of end game that has sprung up over the years, and why in Guild Wars 2 this rush to the end game issue that we see in modern day MMO’s will not at all be a problem.

      One only needs look at history to see why.  When WoW first launched we didn’t see people ‘rush to endgame’, the entire idea would have been absurd as it is in just about any single player game.
      Reason being is that at the time is that the content was new and innovative, not of substance, but in terms of presentation and execution.  Like a candle in the dark.

      The whole leveling and gear gameplay had never been so easy in an MMO before, so it wasn’t a problem, and people took their time with it, and enjoyed themselves.
      And at end game things got even better, when people caught up to each other, and with not much else to do they organized and did content together (ie meaningful social interactions), it just so happened that that content was raids.

      The problem came when every idiot publisher and developer that could rub two dollars together wanted to replicated WoW’s results by replicating it’s game mechanics.
      And so we have had years of pretty much the same game with a few little ‘tweaks’, but the same fundamental design.

      And the thing about this particular content is while it is fun the first few times you do it, it gets extraordinarily dull after a few hundred hours of play.
      And since the ‘end game’ is where the deeper social interaction lay, why just not skip past all the puerile crap and see if end game is done any better?

      And since then a culture has built up around it.

      The reason Guild Wars 2 won’t have this problem is what I eluded to before, you will get your meaningful social interaction early and often, with little effort on your part.
      Rushing to endgame would be like eating cake, then saying “oh, I’ve got to stop eating so I can rush down to the store to buy some cake, because I really want to eat some…”

      Once people realize they are eating cake, they’re going to stop to savor it.

  • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

    Great episode and I have absolutely no complaints. this time. The addition of Dan Workman (the contest winner) was a good decision. I do hope you bring him on again, because he had some good insight, on the game to share, from his hands-on experience with the Events and Dungeons.

    Well I was surprised that this show worked so well, without any new news or updates. So next week we can expect something better, as we’ve had some news (like the Top 9 Skill Combos on IGN) and an Interview about WvWvW upcoming.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_R35J5EUERGS3E6JRIQMBCDTRRY Nathan I

      I agree with this, I like Dan. Rubi and Shawn are reasonably well informed about GW2, but they also follow other news so sometimes they get the facts wrong, and when I’m watching, I’m like “NO, that’s wrong, don’t say that”. Dan seems to be like me and follows primarily GW2 news and he has hands-on experience with the game as well, so his input is great.

  • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

    Great episode and I have absolutely no complaints. this time. The addition of Dan Workman (the contest winner) was a good decision. I do hope you bring him on again, because he had some good insight, on the game to share, from his hands-on experience with the Events and Dungeons. Also about the idea of “the whole game being the endgame”, I kind of made a post about that in the GBtv forums and it went like this:

    The endgame of Guild Wars 2 is basically the same game you spent your time leveling. So if you enjoy the activities you could partake in, whilst leveling, then you’ll enjoy the endgame of Guild Wars 2. That includes:
    – Dynamic Events (Side-kicking plus an entire zone dedicated to level 80+ dynamic events)
    – Incomplete Personal Story Missions
    – Challenging Dungeon runs
    – Item modifying
    – Competitive PvP
    – Casual PvP
    – Large-scale WvWvW PvP
    – Achievement hunting
    – RP’ing
    – Exploring
    – Hanging out with Friends/Guildmates
    Whatever it is you enjoyed doing, all of it will be viable, even after you reach level cap. I know some people are skeptical about this approach but Guild Wars 2 won’t feel the pressure, other games have, to lock its players into a specific play-style (PvE or PvP gear grinding), because the game’s “Buy 2 Play” business model allows it. If you are the type of player who enjoys the constant gear treadmill and having to acquire the next tier of raiding/PvP gear then there are other MMOs that are much suited to that play-style.

    Well I was surprised that this show worked so well, without any new news or updates. So next week we can expect something better, as we’ve had some news (like the Top 9 Skill Combos on IGN) and an Interview about WvWvW upcoming.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_R35J5EUERGS3E6JRIQMBCDTRRY Nathan I

      I agree with this, I like Dan. Rubi and Shawn are reasonably well informed about GW2, but they also follow other news so sometimes they get the facts wrong, and when I’m watching, I’m like “NO, that’s wrong, don’t say that”. Dan seems to be like me and follows primarily GW2 news and he has hands-on experience with the game as well, so his input is great.

  • Anonymous

    Can we get a transcript of this? I’m hearing impaired.

  • Craywulf

    Can we get a transcript of this? I’m hearing impaired.

  • Anonymous

    Gary, about the cinematic story pullouts, I think there won’t really be all that much of it.  In SWTOR every little tiny quest has the cinematic dialog to get the quest, but in GW2 most of your content is going to be dynamic.  Your introduction to the quest will be actually seeing with your own eyes what is going on in the area you just stumbled into, and the objectives will magically appear in the tracker on the right side of your screen.  How much more awesome is that to me than the fully voiced animated npc talking to me telling me to go do some quest that 100 other people will also be doing… but competing for the quest objectives.  Think of the dynamic event system as being a fully open cinematic quest dialog and it blows SWTOR’s system away.

  • Ordegar

    Gary, about the cinematic story pullouts, I think there won’t really be all that much of it.  In SWTOR every little tiny quest has the cinematic dialog to get the quest, but in GW2 most of your content is going to be dynamic.  Your introduction to the quest will be actually seeing with your own eyes what is going on in the area you just stumbled into, and the objectives will magically appear in the tracker on the right side of your screen.  How much more awesome is that to me than the fully voiced animated npc talking to me telling me to go do some quest that 100 other people will also be doing… but competing for the quest objectives.  Think of the dynamic event system as being a fully open cinematic quest dialog and it blows SWTOR’s system away.

  • Anonymous

    I think that people need to forget what they understand as ‘endgame’. The gameplay which has become the standard, means getting to max level after you have already been everywhere and seen any story that is in the open world. So effectively the only new content you can find is in raids.

    In GW2 when you get to max level, you won’t be at the end of the game story wise, there will also be an entire zone of level 80 content with elite DE’s etc, plus more dungeons to do of course. Basically a crapload of new stuff still to discover and do, plus going back to older areas will be fresh thanks to scaling and DE affected environments.

    Loved the show keep up the good work.

  • mcsumo

    I think that people need to forget what they understand as ‘endgame’. The gameplay which has become the standard, means getting to max level after you have already been everywhere and seen any story that is in the open world. So effectively the only new content you can find is in raids.

    In GW2 when you get to max level, you won’t be at the end of the game story wise, there will also be an entire zone of level 80 content with elite DE’s etc, plus more dungeons to do of course. Basically a crapload of new stuff still to discover and do, plus going back to older areas will be fresh thanks to scaling and DE affected environments.

    Loved the show keep up the good work.

  • http://twitter.com/grizzlyGummy Glajummy

    Great show, and Dan Workman was the perfect addition. Really hope to see him hear again, if not regularly. 

  • http://twitter.com/grizzlyGummy Gummy

    Great show, and Dan Workman was the perfect addition. Really hope to see him hear again, if not regularly. 

  • jazzbrownie

    People keep saying that they expect raids to be implemented at some point… but how on earth would that work? With the trinity abolished, a group of five cooperating seems to make sense. They can easily note when a party member needs a heal in a pinch or for you to pull a mob off of them. Communication is important when people’s roles aren’t specifically or easily defined, but twenty people in a single instance would basically just turn into a hectic zerg rush to down mobs. I really don’t see large scale raids happening outside of open world bosses.

  • Anonymous

    People keep saying that they expect raids to be implemented at some point… but how on earth would that work? With the trinity abolished, a group of five cooperating seems to make sense. They can easily note when a party member needs a heal in a pinch or for you to pull a mob off of them. Communication is important when people’s roles aren’t specifically or easily defined, but twenty people in a single instance would basically just turn into a hectic zerg rush to down mobs. I really don’t see large scale raids happening outside of open world bosses.

  • Justin Huffman

    I wouldn’t put something like mounted combat past GW2.  Mounts as purely a method of getting form point A to point B seems too gamey for Arenanet’s standards.  My theory is that they haven’t put them in is because they aren’t satisfied with how mounts are done in MMO’s and haven’t come up with something better for launch yet.  Plus, how cool would mounted cavalry be in things like WvWvW?

    • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

      Yeah, that’s my theory as well. Every other extra feature we are used to seeing in MMOs, like Player Housing and Guild Halls, ArenaNet have said that they won’t be in the game on release, but when they get round to putting them in the game, they’ll be really extensive. So I bet when ArenaNet adds mounts to the game (probably 1st expansion), they will include it with mounted combat.

      • TheGacko

        From how i see it: Arena net may implement it similar to how they seem to be adding watery environments and using different weapons etc.. you basically jump on horse all your skills change and its a purely controlled, balanced feature that is fun. possibly adding zones or areas that revolve around using mounts a lot.. the same principles could be applied to vehicles of other sorts.

  • Justin Huffman

    I wouldn’t put something like mounted combat past GW2.  Mounts as purely a method of getting form point A to point B seems too gamey for Arenanet’s standards.  My theory is that they haven’t put them in is because they aren’t satisfied with how mounts are done in MMO’s and haven’t come up with something better for launch yet.  Plus, how cool would mounted cavalry be in things like WvWvW?

    • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

      Yeah, that’s my theory as well. Every other extra feature we are used to seeing in MMOs, like Player Housing and Guild Halls, ArenaNet have said that they won’t be in the game on release, but when they get round to putting them in the game, they’ll be really extensive. So I bet when ArenaNet adds mounts to the game (probably 1st expansion), they will include it with mounted combat.

      • Anonymous

        From how i see it: Arena net may implement it similar to how they seem to be adding watery environments and using different weapons etc.. you basically jump on horse all your skills change and its a purely controlled, balanced feature that is fun. possibly adding zones or areas that revolve around using mounts a lot.. the same principles could be applied to vehicles of other sorts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ronny-Sunrock/100002737688676 Ronny Sunrock

    End game not needed? Does that mean you’re supose to quit the game as soon as you hit max level?! Because thats the only reason way you don’t need a end game.

    • Craywulf

      Leveling is irrelevant. If you are a high level character in a low level zone, you get down-scaled round about to the level of the zone. If there was a Dynamic Event you missed in that zone the first time you visited, you’ll be able to experience it as fresh content. Currently there are 1500 Dynamic Events with more to be added as the game gets updated. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ronny-Sunrock/100002737688676 Ronny Sunrock

    End game not needed? Does that mean you’re supose to quit the game as soon as you hit max level?! Because thats the only reason way you don’t need a end game.

    • Anonymous

      Leveling is irrelevant. If you are a high level character in a low level zone, you get down-scaled round about to the level of the zone. If there was a Dynamic Event you missed in that zone the first time you visited, you’ll be able to experience it as fresh content. Currently there are 1500 Dynamic Events with more to be added as the game gets updated. 

  • Krazzar

    So far every debate on X traditional MMO (usually WoW) vs GW2 isn’t
    really a question of game design or tallying up and comparing game
    features point by point but a fundamental difference in perspective. This does well in summarizing the arguments but I feel it mostly
    misses out on the overarching reasoning. These topics should
    start with a foundation in the differences in perspective, otherwise
    you submit to the traditional MMO frame and then simply compare point by point,
    which gives massive undue advantage to traditional MMOs. The reason GW2 does not have
    raids or mounts is because the reasons you play GW2 are different than
    the reasons you play traditional MMOs. Your starting point and
    destination are decided by your perspective and thus everything in the
    middle, aka game design, as well.

    When these topics come up it seems everyone is more than willing to
    frame design aspects of GW2 in terms of WoW or traditional MMOs and
    that’s not really effective. It’s comparing airplanes to bicycles.
    Traditional MMOs are like airplanes, you get on and hate the trip expecting
    the destination to be far better. GW2, and real RPG games, are like bicycles,
    you ride to have experiences, sounds, smells, sights, feeling the
    ground, and the destination doesn’t really matter, it’s the ride,
    experiences, that matters. So when you look at what is good for an
    airplane ride it isn’t good for a bicycle ride, thus submitting to the
    WoW frame on these topics isn’t realistic. That doesn’t make discussion any easier, but it’s more accurate. Even if raids and mounts are
    the best things to happen to MMOs ever they’re just not good for GW2,
    but for some reason most people seem to think every game is the same.

  • Anonymous

    So far every debate on X traditional MMO (usually WoW) vs GW2 on Guru isn’t
    really a question of game design or tallying up and comparing game
    features point by point but a fundamental difference in perspective. This does well in summarizing the arguments but I feel it mostly
    misses out on the overarching reasoning. These topics should been
    started with a foundation in the differences in perspective, otherwise
    you submit to the traditional MMO frame and then simply compare point by point,
    which gives massive undue advantage to traditional MMOs. The reason GW2 does not have
    raids or mounts is because the reasons you play GW2 are different than
    the reasons you play traditional MMOs. Your starting point and
    destination are decided by your perspective and thus everything in the
    middle, aka game design, as well.

    When these topics come up it seems everyone is more than willing to
    frame design aspects of GW2 in terms of WoW or traditional MMOs and
    that’s not really effective. It’s comparing airplanes to bicycles.
    Traditional MMOs are like airplanes, you get on and hate the trip expecting
    the destination to be far better. GW2, and real RPG games, are like bicycles,
    you ride to have experiences, sounds, smells, sights, feeling the
    ground, and the destination doesn’t really matter, it’s the ride,
    experiences, that matters. So when you look at what is good for an
    airplane ride it isn’t good for a bicycle ride, thus submitting to the
    WoW frame on these topics isn’t realistic. That doesn’t make discussion any easier, but it’s more accurate. Even if raids and mounts are
    the best things to happen to MMOs ever they’re just not good for GW2,
    but for some reason most people seem to think every game is the same.

  • Adelio85

    did you ever thought about all non americans players that do not understand such a f****ing fast english speaking? slow down please!

  • Anonymous

    did you ever thought about all non americans players that do not understand such a f****ing fast english speaking? slow down please!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1298033643 Nick Adkins

    With the dynamic events being a push and pull mechanic with multiple steps needed to spawn and down a dragon. I see “end game” being guilds grouping up and doing all the steps needed to spawn a world boss, with the best environment to take the boss down. 

    I can envision starting the push to the world boss, while throwing messages in chat about our guilds objective and watching the community join in on the mayhem. Snowballing bigger and bigger till tons of people are helping destroy a boss dynamic event. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1298033643 Nick Adkins

    With the dynamic events being a push and pull mechanic with multiple steps needed to spawn and down a dragon. I see “end game” being guilds grouping up and doing all the steps needed to spawn a world boss, with the best environment to take the boss down. 

    I can envision starting the push to the world boss, while throwing messages in chat about our guilds objective and watching the community join in on the mayhem. Snowballing bigger and bigger till tons of people are helping destroy a boss dynamic event. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/L3W5TEFW7BCLUE2YRTDBVZTEFQ Phillip

    There is no  “Endgame” for Guild Wars 2. Think of Guild Wars 2 as an open-world RPG like Skyrim and Fallout 3 and GTA 4, with thousands of mini-quests and more being added each day. Then make it multiplayer.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/L3W5TEFW7BCLUE2YRTDBVZTEFQ Phillip

    There is no  “Endgame” for Guild Wars 2. Think of Guild Wars 2 as an open-world RPG like Skyrim and Fallout 3 and GTA 4, with thousands of mini-quests and more being added each day. Then make it multiplayer.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725842390 Bernard Ramkissoon

    If you go back to the GW2 manifesto video at 2″13 there’s one line from Ree where she clearly says “We don’t want to make the same MMO that everyone else is building”.Like Dan said ArenaNet is more about community where you can share your individuality in a collective reality.

    I was an hardcore raider but  with each new game that were released raiding became more like a chore than having fun.So I think focusing on the journey is more important that the destination.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725842390 Bernard Ramkissoon

    If you go back to the GW2 manifesto video at 2″13 there’s one line from Ree where she clearly says “We don’t want to make the same MMO that everyone else is building”.Like Dan said ArenaNet is more about community where you can share your individuality in a collective reality.

    I was an hardcore raider but  with each new game that were released raiding became more like a chore than having fun.So I think focusing on the journey is more important that the destination.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yoshe-Melton/1005497302 Yoshe Melton

    GAHH this Kills me!  something that they are missing about raiders,  its about ownership and being good, and our guild did this,  which is something that other guilds can’t or have not been able to do.

    Also there is something about the story…the long term,  like my character on wow has been around since 05 he has fought against many monsters and amazing battles…so if there is nothing at the end that means that I have been there and seen it,  and seen huge amazing battles. then what does my character really mean? what is he really doing? oh to be fair I dont know the story,  but…something about instanced raids means its something we have done.  not just my personal story,  but or story because many of us raid with the same people…most of our MMO life.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yoshe-Melton/1005497302 Yoshe Melton

    GAHH this Kills me!  something that they are missing about raiders,  its about ownership and being good, and our guild did this,  which is something that other guilds can’t or have not been able to do.

    Also there is something about the story…the long term,  like my character on wow has been around since 05 he has fought against many monsters and amazing battles…so if there is nothing at the end that means that I have been there and seen it,  and seen huge amazing battles. then what does my character really mean? what is he really doing? oh to be fair I dont know the story,  but…something about instanced raids means its something we have done.  not just my personal story,  but or story because many of us raid with the same people…most of our MMO life.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yoshe-Melton/1005497302 Yoshe Melton

    not to mention what about building tight close friendships with guildies, via trial by fire. Ya kno?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yoshe-Melton/1005497302 Yoshe Melton

    not to mention what about building tight close friendships with guildies, via trial by fire. Ya kno?

  • Senatic

    Dan Workman is a nice addition, hope to see him again!

    Sorry Shawn, the name Guild Wars is not about guilds battling each other, it is actually a reference to “The Guild Wars” the last of which ended with the searing before the first game. You can look it up on the Guild Wars wiki.

  • Anonymous

    Dan Workman is a nice addition, hope to see him again!

    Sorry Shawn, the name Guild Wars is not about guilds battling each other, it is actually a reference to “The Guild Wars” the last of which ended with the searing before the first game. You can look it up on the Guild Wars wiki.

  • Tonden_Ockay

    EQ was around before WoW and it had open world raids. WoW
    was the one who took raids to instances and watered them down from the 70 man
    raid groups in EQ to 40 man raids. Then WoW watered them down to 25 and 10 man
    raids. That said GW2 is just taking raids back to open world raids where you
    can have large 70 man raids once again.

     

    Raids in EQ took hours to take down the end Boss. In GW2 it
    will take a lot of time for a guild to push an event to the point to where an
    Elite boss will pop. So in the end GW2 is taking raids back to where they
    started and by doing so it will allow for others to see first hand how well
    some guilds can work together. It will also allow for smaller guilds to ask for
    help from more powerful guilds.

     

    WoW segregated people with instances where GW2 is bringing back the community that EQ had back in the day. People need to stop thinking raids have to be segregated groups hidden a way in an instance where no one can see what is going on or help if needed. You could all so think of Dynamic Events as raids with a spectator mod that E-sport PVP games have.

    People just need to stop thinking of WoW as a traditional mmorpg because EQ and DaoC was around for years before WoW ever was. You do not need to be in an instance to have a raid. Raids are about large organized groups taking down hard content together and dynamic events offers that.

  • Anonymous

    EQ was around before WoW and it had open world raids. WoW
    was the one who took raids to instances and watered them down from the 70 man
    raid groups in EQ to 40 man raids. Then WoW watered them down to 25 and 10 man
    raids. That said GW2 is just taking raids back to open world raids where you
    can have large 70 man raids once again.

     

    Raids in EQ took hours to take down the end Boss. In GW2 it
    will take a lot of time for a guild to push an event to the point to where an
    Elite boss will pop. So in the end GW2 is taking raids back to where they
    started and by doing so it will allow for others to see first hand how well
    some guilds can work together. It will also allow for smaller guilds to ask for
    help from more powerful guilds.

     

    WoW segregated people with instances where GW2 is
    bringing back the community that EQ had back in the day.
    People need to stop thinking raids
    have to be segregated groups hidden a way in an instance where no one can see
    what is going on or help if needed. Think of Dynamic Events as raids with a spectator
    mod that E-sport PVP games have.

  • Sebastian Smolarczyk

    I really don’t agree with most was said in this episode. There is really too much fan love for Arena net and Guild Wars in it. Anyone who listen to this Cast would think that Guild Wars 2 will be Second Coming off God. 

    Guild Wars 2 Will be a great game and have potential to change MMO market. But it has problem and the Fun boy/girl Trio here is saying something like this “No it is not a problem it is a new approach cuz Arena Net is great and they way will fit all ppl”. Why can not you just say that a Hardcore Raider ATM will not find what he is looking in this game. What ppl said in this Cast was like a Hardocre Raider will see that Arean Net way is so much better then Raiding and he will fall in love with it. And that is crap, this Game will be Great it might be bigger then anything we seen in long time (Swotor) but this game ATM is not for everyone,

    Next thing there was some bullshit about Guild Failing in Wow and that is what Guild Wars want to prevent with not putting in Raids and doing Guild system in a different way. The New Guild system will be fun but it will not prevent failing of guild. And Lack of Raids will not stop that too. Guilds fail, that is a fact, and it don’t matter if it is cuz off loot or gold, or cheating ect. They Fail in Wow/Rift/Swatar and The holy Super Power Called Guild Wars. It is cuz not everyone can play nice with everyone, and the Game ppl are playing doesn’t matter.

    So Gary Get on this Cast someone who is not in love with this game so much or keep the Fan-boys to two ppl at max.

    This Post isn’t meant to attack anyone. This is just my opinion of this episode. If anyone felt attacked I am really Sorry.

    PS. Sorry for My poor English.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Plaster/517381621 Paul Plaster

      You must have missed where they said – multiple times – that this game WON’T be for everyone.  They’ve said multiple times that the hardcore raider – who MMO’s solely for raids – likely won’t find this game entertaining, but that isn’t the fault of GW2.  That’s the fault of the hardcore raider, for thinking that MMO’s should only offer raiding as endgame content.

      They also didn’t say that a hardcore raider will fall in love with GW2 even though it has no raiding.  What they DID say is that – unless you look at this game with a fully one-dimensional focus on raiding and raiding alone – there is all kinds of great content in this game, and that you would be foolish to pass on this game purely because it doesn’t have raiding as we currently know it.

  • Sebastian Smolarczyk

    I really don’t agree with most was said in this episode. There is really too much fan love for Arena net and Guild Wars in it. Anyone who listen to this Cast would think that Guild Wars 2 will be Second Coming off God. 

    Guild Wars 2 Will be a great game and have potential to change MMO market. But it has problem and the Fun boy/girl Trio here is saying something like this “No it is not a problem it is a new approach cuz Arena Net is great and they way will fit all ppl”. Why can not you just say that a Hardcore Raider ATM will not find what he is looking in this game. What ppl said in this Cast was like a Hardocre Raider will see that Arean Net way is so much better then Raiding and he will fall in love with it. And that is crap, this Game will be Great it might be bigger then anything we seen in long time (Swotor) but this game ATM is not for everyone,

    Next thing there was some bullshit about Guild Failing in Wow and that is what Guild Wars want to prevent with not putting in Raids and doing Guild system in a different way. The New Guild system will be fun but it will not prevent failing of guild. And Lack of Raids will not stop that too. Guilds fail, that is a fact, and it don’t matter if it is cuz off loot or gold, or cheating ect. They Fail in Wow/Rift/Swatar and The holy Super Power Called Guild Wars. It is cuz not everyone can play nice with everyone, and the Game ppl are playing doesn’t matter.

    So Gary Get on this Cast someone who is not in love with this game so much or keep the Fan-boys to two ppl at max.

    This Post isn’t meant to attack anyone. This is just my opinion of this episode. If anyone felt attacked I am really Sorry.

    PS. Sorry for My poor English.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Plaster/517381621 Paul Plaster

      You must have missed where they said – multiple times – that this game WON’T be for everyone.  They’ve said multiple times that the hardcore raider – who MMO’s solely for raids – likely won’t find this game entertaining, but that isn’t the fault of GW2.  That’s the fault of the hardcore raider, for thinking that MMO’s should only offer raiding as endgame content.

      They also didn’t say that a hardcore raider will fall in love with GW2 even though it has no raiding.  What they DID say is that – unless you look at this game with a fully one-dimensional focus on raiding and raiding alone – there is all kinds of great content in this game, and that you would be foolish to pass on this game purely because it doesn’t have raiding as we currently know it.

  • http://profiles.google.com/james1989stephens james Stephens

    Got a question for future podcast/guildcast…
    In one of your podcasts which I think is really important that you missed to discuss was a question someone said.
    “What do you think GW2 can offer that other MMO’s don’t already have… And do you think it will be enough to hold peoples interest months of end”

    One of the biggest reasons in my opinion why people spend months of end even years playing an MMO is progressing their character(s). This is either done by armor/items/weapons/PvP enhancing abilities such as in Dark age of Camelot or Warhammer PvP rank system.

    I know GW2 armor will be more prominent than in GW1, but do you think GW2 will be able to keep players interest with that armor/weapons progression only being aesthetic being it PvE and PvP? 

    Will titles also keep people playing PvP? Can’t say much for WoW but in games such as DAoC and War Online the main driving force in playing PvP is to get the top rank and then be able to get the best gear and better stats. I love GW PvP gameplay as it makes gear doesn’t matter everyone is equal meaning its all down to the players skill, but this seemed to kill GW1 PvP competitiveness as you only progressed for a title.

  • http://profiles.google.com/james1989stephens james Stephens

    Got a question for future podcast/guildcast…
    In one of your podcasts which I think is really important that you missed to discuss was a question someone said.
    “What do you think GW2 can offer that other MMO’s don’t already have… And do you think it will be enough to hold peoples interest months of end”

    One of the biggest reasons in my opinion why people spend months of end even years playing an MMO is progressing their character(s). This is either done by armor/items/weapons/PvP enhancing abilities such as in Dark age of Camelot or Warhammer PvP rank system.

    I know GW2 armor will be more prominent than in GW1, but do you think GW2 will be able to keep players interest with that armor/weapons progression only being aesthetic being it PvE and PvP? 

    Will titles also keep people playing PvP? Can’t say much for WoW but in games such as DAoC and War Online the main driving force in playing PvP is to get the top rank and then be able to get the best gear and better stats. I love GW PvP gameplay as it makes gear doesn’t matter everyone is equal meaning its all down to the players skill, but this seemed to kill GW1 PvP competitiveness as you only progressed for a title.

  • Ronald Miller

    Mr. Workman makes this episode hard to watch. His stories go off in so many tangents.

  • Ronald Miller

    Mr. Workman makes this episode hard to watch. His stories go off in so many tangents.

  • Laborday

    There is a lot of casual observance here. I feel more & more GB.tv doesn’t actually follow the news and internal happenings in MMOs which are not World of Warcraft. Guildcast is perhaps the most superficial of all so far.

  • http://twitter.com/Salamolign Salamol

    I still struggle with this “endgame” concept. I mean sure, a standard MMO levels to X and then everything after that is “Endgame content” that is designed to keep players playing for months/years. GW2 seems to say, “When you hit X, you can continue doing the same things you’ve been doing” but then there is only so many times you can repeat those same things.

    With no raid progression or gear upgrades, how does one advance their “Journey” as a character in a PvE environment? On the other hand, millions of people start the big MMOs yet most leave, many because they don’t want to be doing the raid content and schedule their life around a game. I have a feeling that the game will be lots of fun for a month or two… but I do fear for it after that. While the events are dynamic, and there are so many varied events, players WILL get tired of zone A,B and C and prefer not to go back.

    Edit: It seems to be setting itself up to be a more casual 8 hours a week experience, as opposed to having enough content to satisfy people 4 hours a night.

    • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

      The real issue is why does Guild Wars 2 have to be like every MMO out there. There are more than enough MMOs to appeal to the endgame raiders, so why no have an MMO that appeals to everyone else. To the Dungeon runners, the Competitive PvP’ers, from the Casual players, to the achievement whores. Guild Wars 2 seems to be the game for everyone, expect the Raiders, Sandbox players and I think that it will succeed for that. Especially seeing how it lacks a subscription fee, so players will be more forgiving, for the lack of a gear grind.

  • http://twitter.com/Salamolign Salamol

    I still struggle with this “endgame” concept. I mean sure, a standard MMO levels to X and then everything after that is “Endgame content” that is designed to keep players playing for months/years. GW2 seems to say, “When you hit X, you can continue doing the same things you’ve been doing” but then there is only so many times you can repeat those same things.

    With no raid progression or gear upgrades, how does one advance their “Journey” as a character in a PvE environment? On the other hand, millions of people start the big MMOs yet most leave, many because they don’t want to be doing the raid content and schedule their life around a game. I have a feeling that the game will be lots of fun for a month or two… but I do fear for it after that. While the events are dynamic, and there are so many varied events, players WILL get tired of zone A,B and C and prefer not to go back.

    • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

      The real issue is why does Guild Wars 2 have to be like every MMO out there. There are more than enough MMOs to appeal to the endgame raiders, so why no have an MMO that appeals to everyone else. To the Dungeon runners, the Competitive PvP’ers, from the Casual players, to the achievement whores. Guild Wars 2 seems to be the game for everyone, expect the Raiders, Sandbox players and I think that it will succeed for that. Especially seeing how it lacks a subscription fee, so players will be more forgiving, for the lack of a gear grind.

  • Krzysztof Kotarba

    When GW2 launch? Will be there world pvp or only instanced pvp?

  • Krzysztof Kotarba

    When GW2 launch? Will be there world pvp or only instanced pvp?

  • Nick Ratcliffe

    The problem with all you people saying “people need to get past the concept of end-game” is that millions of people happen to enjoy “end-game.” 

    I’m not saying copy wow, because there’s more about WOW than raiding… but one of the main reasons I’ve played WOW for so long is because of the competition at the end-game level.  I don’t really give a crap about my character’s quests or story or achievements, I like competition with 9 of my buddies against a big dragon.

    I honestly think a lot of people who post here are a little biased with their proclamations. 

  • Nick Ratcliffe

    The problem with all you people saying “people need to get past the concept of end-game” is that millions of people happen to enjoy “end-game.” 

    I’m not saying copy wow, because there’s more about WOW than raiding… but one of the main reasons I’ve played WOW for so long is because of the competition at the end-game level.  I don’t really give a crap about my character’s quests or story or achievements, I like competition with 9 of my buddies against a big dragon.

    I honestly think a lot of people who post here are a little biased with their proclamations. 

    • http://twitter.com/c3o5nnect J

       Competition with 9 of your buddies against a big dragon?… Shatterer wants to have a word with you.

      Just because something isn’t implemented exactly the way you’re used to it, doesn’t mean it won’t fulfill that role. Hard dungeons for the hardcore… Dynamic events for bigger groups… Up to 100 or more I believe ANet said.

      I don’t think GW2 will be perfect, but I do think it will provide a great overall experience.

  • Nick Ratcliffe

    And I’d like to add I think it’s completely and totally possible for them to have a competitive raiding scene while also doing it the way you guys want.

  • Nick Ratcliffe

    And I’d like to add I think it’s completely and totally possible for them to have a competitive raiding scene while also doing it the way you guys want.

  • chris911t

    To understand the “end game” issue you have to have played a game like WoW for a long time.

    At first, it’s fun to level through the different areas and there’s a certain something in having a high level character. By the time you’re playing the second, third, fourth expansion of the game you probably have 3 to 9 characters at max level.

    What that means is that, if the expansion has a significant levelling requirement, that you have to do it 3 to 9 times over – and that, ladies and gentlemen, is seriously boring.

    Then you have each of them wearing fairly basic gear, all the gear you worked so hard for in the previous expansion became rubbish very quickly in the new one – so you now have to trawl through “the end game” for each of them – going into new version of dungeons which have the same old principles applied – tank, heal, dps, whatever… it’s the same idea with different boss mechanics.

    Yes, they could be quite inventive about the mechanics but in the end you just felt… same old. 

    And all the while there are these annoying little whiners leaving and making you wait for a replacement, playing badly, telling everyone how bad they are while extolling their own virtues… etc etc.

    The only thing that offered real variety in WoW was pvp – and Guild Wars did that far better than wow. 

    So… end game? I won’t miss it at all. 

  • Anonymous

    To understand the “end game” issue you have to have played a game like WoW for a long time.

    At first, it’s fun to level through the different areas and there’s a certain something in having a high level character. By the time you’re playing the second, third, fourth expansion of the game you probably have 3 to 9 characters at max level.

    What that means is that, if the expansion has a significant levelling requirement, that you have to do it 3 to 9 times over – and that, ladies and gentlemen, is seriously boring.

    Then you have each of them wearing fairly basic gear, all the gear you worked so hard for in the previous expansion became rubbish very quickly in the new one – so you now have to trawl through “the end game” for each of them – going into new version of dungeons which have the same old principles applied – tank, heal, dps, whatever… it’s the same idea with different boss mechanics.

    Yes, they could be quite inventive about the mechanics but in the end you just felt… same old. 

    And all the while there are these annoying little whiners leaving and making you wait for a replacement, playing badly, telling everyone how bad they are while extolling their own virtues… etc etc.

    The only thing that offered real variety in WoW was pvp – and Guild Wars did that far better than wow. 

    So… end game? I won’t miss it at all. 

  • chris911t

    To understand the “end game” issue you have to have played a game like WoW for a long time.
    At first, it’s fun to level through the different areas and there’s a certain something in having a high level character. By the time you’re playing the second, third, fourth expansion of the game you probably have 3 to 9 characters at max level.

    What that means is that, if the expansion has a significant levelling requirement, that you have to do it 3 to 9 times over – and that, ladies and gentlemen, is seriously boring.

    Then you have each of them wearing fairly basic gear, all the gear you worked so hard for in the previous expansion became rubbish very quickly in the new one – so you now have to trawl through “the end game” for each of them – going into new version of dungeons which have the same old principles applied – tank, heal, dps, whatever… it’s the same idea with different boss mechanics.

    Yes, they could be quite inventive about the mechanics but in the end you just felt… same old. 

    And all the while there are these annoying little whiners leaving and making you wait for a replacement, playing badly, telling everyone how bad they are while extolling their own virtues… etc etc.

    The only thing that offered real variety in WoW was pvp – and Guild Wars did that far better than wow. 

    So… end game? I won’t miss it at all. 

  • Anonymous

    To understand the “end game” issue you have to have played a game like WoW for a long time.
    At first, it’s fun to level through the different areas and there’s a certain something in having a high level character. By the time you’re playing the second, third, fourth expansion of the game you probably have 3 to 9 characters at max level.

    What that means is that, if the expansion has a significant levelling requirement, that you have to do it 3 to 9 times over – and that, ladies and gentlemen, is seriously boring.

    Then you have each of them wearing fairly basic gear, all the gear you worked so hard for in the previous expansion became rubbish very quickly in the new one – so you now have to trawl through “the end game” for each of them – going into new version of dungeons which have the same old principles applied – tank, heal, dps, whatever… it’s the same idea with different boss mechanics.

    Yes, they could be quite inventive about the mechanics but in the end you just felt… same old. 

    And all the while there are these annoying little whiners leaving and making you wait for a replacement, playing badly, telling everyone how bad they are while extolling their own virtues… etc etc.

    The only thing that offered real variety in WoW was pvp – and Guild Wars did that far better than wow. 

    So… end game? I won’t miss it at all. 

  • Corey Busche

    Yes, Rubi, we understand…you like and agree with everyone Guild Wars 2 is doing.  So while the others are actually contributing personalized opinions, you’re just restating things that Guild Wars has already mentioned because you’re too thick to create your own opinions.  I can understand someone understanding Guild Wars 2 choices, but for you to automatically agree with everything they’re doing shows that you have either 1) a minimal gaming background which allows you to adapt so well, or 2) you’re opinions are made by others, and you don’t even have your own ideas.  Personally, I’m glad Guild Wars 2 is doing something different, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t incorporate things that are already practiced and proven to be loved by gamers (such as mounts and raids).  By all means, keep the new stuff, add more to the MMO experience, but also include the things gamers have and will always love!!!

    • JVJunior

      Do you believe group “raids” should be incorporated into Zelda?
      This may sound like a strange comparison, but I use it to clearly illustrate a point. Why should one game incorporate elements of another just because there is some vague resemblance between the two? 
      The argument “that game does this, so this one should too” is, well, ridiculous when you think about it. Minecraft has over twenty million registered users. The game is often described as an MMO ( why not, it has many players online at once in a shared space), should Guild Wars 2 include digging and creating structures?* Why not? It’s proven to be loved by gamers. When I play Crysis 2 mutli-player I don’t think to myself “this really needs 64 players and vehicular combat because, hey, Battlefield 3 has it”, I play it for the game experience it is.

      It may sound condescending when people say “you need to change your thinking”, but it’s true. ArenaNet has chosen not to arbitrarily include many standard MMO cliches because they don’t believe it fits into their game design. The game should be enjoyed for the experience it is, why include elements that are there simply because “this is how other games do it”.

      *this actually sounds pretty awesome.

  • Corey Busche

    Yes, Rubi, we understand…you like and agree with everyone Guild Wars 2 is doing.  So while the others are actually contributing personalized opinions, you’re just restating things that Guild Wars has already mentioned because you’re too thick to create your own opinions.  I can understand someone understanding Guild Wars 2 choices, but for you to automatically agree with everything they’re doing shows that you have either 1) a minimal gaming background which allows you to adapt so well, or 2) you’re opinions are made by others, and you don’t even have your own ideas.  Personally, I’m glad Guild Wars 2 is doing something different, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t incorporate things that are already practiced and proven to be loved by gamers (such as mounts and raids).  By all means, keep the new stuff, add more to the MMO experience, but also include the things gamers have and will always love!!!

    • Anonymous

      Do you believe group “raids” should be incorporated into Zelda?
      This may sound like a strange comparison, but I use it to clearly illustrate a point. Why should one game incorporate elements of another just because there is some vague resemblance between the two? 
      The argument “that game does this, so this one should too” is, well, ridiculous when you think about it. Minecraft has over twenty million registered users. The game is often described as an MMO ( why not, it has many players online at once in a shared space), should Guild Wars 2 include digging and creating structures?* Why not? It’s proven to be loved by gamers. When I play Crysis 2 mutli-player I don’t think to myself “this really needs 64 players and vehicular combat because, hey, Battlefield 3 has it”, I play it for the game experience it is.

      It may sound condescending when people say “you need to change your thinking”, but it’s true. ArenaNet has chosen not to arbitrarily include many standard MMO cliches because they don’t believe it fits into their game design. The game should be enjoyed for the experience it is, why include elements that are there simply because “this is how other games do it”.

      *this actually sounds pretty awesome.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Brandon777 Brandon Martinez

    Will I still be able to kill dragons with my guild/friends?  Doens’t have to be a “raid” but are there going to be large mobs that require lots of people to kill?

  • http://www.facebook.com/Brandon777 Brandon Martinez

    Will I still be able to kill dragons with my guild/friends?  Doens’t have to be a “raid” but are there going to be large mobs that require lots of people to kill?

  • http://www.facebook.com/trose87 T Paul Rose

    GW2 fans are the hipsters of the mmo community. they hated endgame before it sucked.

  • http://www.facebook.com/trose87 T Paul Rose

    GW2 fans are the hipsters of the mmo community. they hated endgame before it sucked.

  • Michael Oliphant

    Quit killing the buzz Gary. You are trying to hard at devils advocate. I like your shows. I like the old Guildcast too.

  • Michael Oliphant

    Quit killing the buzz Gary. You are trying to hard at devils advocate. I like your shows. I like the old Guildcast too.

  • Twisle

    Not intresseted at all anymore since they announced the “no endgame” statement. Maybe a bit shallow but i hate leveling and if thats the entire game? No thank you!

  • Anonymous

    Not intresseted at all anymore since they announced the “no endgame” statement. Maybe a bit shallow but i hate leveling and if thats the entire game? No thank you!

  • Jason carter

    If its all about the level up and not the EG then its FAIL. SWTOR made an attempt at this and it almost cost them now they are releasing more EG content. Also I hope it has way more than the dynamic events discussed like putting fires out or helping someone pick corn lol this stuff gets old after you do it once or twice. I’m not playing a MMo to go pick grass or rescue a cat in the tree. MMo’s we want to save the world fight massive hordes and kill huge complicated bosses with a lot of mechanics. We want shinnies and powerful weapons. This game sounds worst every show you guys do lol No mounts…serious I smell a failed mechanic in trying to create a time sync. I’m definetily not trying this game until a few months after release. this sounds like a flop or it will capture its own community at around 300k consistent people but I don’t see a majority of todays MMOers embracing this based the info released.

  • Jason carter

    If its all about the level up and not the EG then its FAIL. SWTOR made an attempt at this and it almost cost them now they are releasing more EG content. Also I hope it has way more than the dynamic events discussed like putting fires out or helping someone pick corn lol this stuff gets old after you do it once or twice. I’m not playing a MMo to go pick grass or rescue a cat in the tree. MMo’s we want to save the world fight massive hordes and kill huge complicated bosses with a lot of mechanics. We want shinnies and powerful weapons. This game sounds worst every show you guys do lol No mounts…serious I smell a failed mechanic in trying to create a time sync. I’m definetily not trying this game until a few months after release. this sounds like a flop or it will capture its own community at around 300k consistent people but I don’t see a majority of todays MMOers embracing this based the info released.

  • Jason carter

    Also Please tell me Rubi works for ArenaNet. If not please go apply for a job in marketing lol at least you’ll be getting a check. OMG talk about a fangirl…lol

  • Jason carter

    Also Please tell me Rubi works for ArenaNet. If not please go apply for a job in marketing lol at least you’ll be getting a check. OMG talk about a fangirl…lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/edgarjmartins Edgar Martins

    Too much people trying to explain the unexplainable, MMORPG without raids/endgame is like FPS without guns: “look how cool my game is, we run around and from time to time someone die from old age”.

    They keep using the same example, the pirates and the village… but what excuse you will have to be outside to start that dynamic events?

    • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

      That analogy doesn’t work because you can’t play an FPS without using a gun (or a similar kind of weapon), yet many people already play MMORPGs without instanced raiding. You personally are just stuck in your ways and if you simply cannot imagine a game without raiding and feel that it is out of your comfort zone, then your are tons of other games you can play, that cater to you. Let GW2 cater to those that want something different.

      • http://twitter.com/Salamolign Salamol

        I’m not sure about out of a comfort zone… it’s just that, realisticly, a raid zone could keep people occupied for 6 months, yet would only take a couple of weeks to develop (If a toolset has already been created). Wether you think it’s ridiculous or not, people will stand in the same area, attempting to kill the same boss for hours on end, sometimes multiple times every week.

        With that in mind, the GW2 style content needed to keep people occupied for a similar amount of time would be tremendous! Lots of people play MMORPGs without raiding, but (using Rift as a perfect example) those same people get bored, and move on because there’s only so much of the same you can do before you get bored.

        Raids are implemented as a difficult challenge, to keep people interested and involved for a long time. I’d love GW2 to have enough dynamic, fun content to keep people occupied, but it’s difficult to imagine.

        Personally I hope I really enjoy the pvp! Since I PvPd in GW, nothing has come close to satisfying me :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/edgarjmartins Edgar Martins

    Too much people trying to explain the unexplainable, MMORPG without raids/endgame is like FPS without guns: “look how cool my game is, we run around and from time to time someone die from old age”.

    They keep using the same example, the pirates and the village… but what excuse you will have to be outside to start that dynamic events?

    • http://twitter.com/Master10K Master10K

      That analogy doesn’t work because you can’t play an FPS without using a gun (or a similar kind of weapon), yet many people already play MMORPGs without instanced raiding. You personally are just stuck in your ways and if you simply cannot imagine a game without raiding and feel that it is out of your comfort zone, then your are tons of other games you can play, that cater to you. Let GW2 cater to those that want something different.

      • http://twitter.com/Salamolign Salamol

        I’m not sure about out of a comfort zone… it’s just that, realisticly, a raid zone could keep people occupied for 6 months, yet would only take a couple of weeks to develop (If a toolset has already been created). Wether you think it’s ridiculous or not, people will stand in the same area, attempting to kill the same boss for hours on end, sometimes multiple times every week.

        With that in mind, the GW2 style content needed to keep people occupied for a similar amount of time would be tremendous! Lots of people play MMORPGs without raiding, but (using Rift as a perfect example) those same people get bored, and move on because there’s only so much of the same you can do before you get bored.

        Raids are implemented as a difficult challenge, to keep people interested and involved for a long time. I’d love GW2 to have enough dynamic, fun content to keep people occupied, but it’s difficult to imagine.

        Personally I hope I really enjoy the pvp! Since I PvPd in GW, nothing has come close to satisfying me :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=744474191 Niko Stark Nikitkin

    Can you not have Dan again? If i wanted to listen to his livejournal i’d go read his livejournal. Just keep it to Rubi and Shawn, this episode felt like a 1 hour fangasm, not an objective look at the game. Just my 2 cents

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=744474191 Niko Stark Nikitkin

    Can you not have Dan again? If i wanted to listen to his livejournal i’d go read his livejournal. Just keep it to Rubi and Shawn, this episode felt like a 1 hour fangasm, not an objective look at the game. Just my 2 cents

  • Roman W

    GW 2 will have more endgame-dungeons than any other mmo. Let me explain why:

    1. Dungeons in GW2 have a max. dungeon level. If you visit a lv.30 dungeon as a level 70 character, your character will get scaled down to the max.-dungeon-level in this dungeon (-> character scales to lv.30.)

    2.) In GW2 skills can’t be bought at a vendor like in other mmos. You have to beat a skill challenge (which are hidden all over the world) to get skillpoints. With those you can buy your skills, when you have unlocked all your empty skillslots (3 utility skillslots and 1 elite skillslot aren’t unlocked at first).

    3.) …why this is important: As a lv.80 player your skillpool is higher. (e.g. all 20 utility skills), but this doesn’t mean that those are more powerful. A level 30 character can have bought 3 utility skills which are a good choice for dungeon30.

    4.) So it only makes sense: all of them:
    -) the level 30 player
    -) the level 80 player (downscaled to “effective level 30″)
    have the same the same endgame-hardcore difficult level for this lv.30 explorable mode dungeon.
    The lv.80 player has a bigger pool to choose his skills from, but these aren’t superior. (not when he is downscaled).

    –> so all dungeons are endgame-dungeons.
    –> all dungeons will stay endgame-dungeons, even with new expansions.

    Imagine the epic battle against Illidan. Today this encounter is nothing near as epic as it was a couple of years ago. Now think of it:

    Illidan in GW2:
    You are a Cataplayer (lv.85) who never experienced Illidan. You go back to the Black Temple. Now your character, your stats etc. get scaled to the max. dungeon level 70. You have the same hard dungeon run someone had a few years ago.

    furthermore: you got the Warclaive of Azzinoth. It is lv.70. No problem, use a transmutation stone and turn it into a lv.85 weapon. Epic!

    • http://twitter.com/Salamolign Salamol

      Dungeons designed to be more difficult will be difficult to someone who is given a character and a couple of hours to try them! When they are attempted by the playerbase, they will be done after hundreds of hours worth of learning your character while leveling. Eventually (though not necessarily all the far into the future) players will have done each dungeon multiple times, and at that point we’ll see just how difficult (and repeatable) they are.

  • Roman W

    GW 2 will have more endgame-dungeons than any other mmo. Let me explain why:

    1. Dungeons in GW2 have a max. dungeon level. If you visit a lv.30 dungeon as a level 70 character, your character will get scaled down to the max.-dungeon-level in this dungeon (-> character scales to lv.30.)

    2.) In GW2 skills can’t be bought at a vendor like in other mmos. You have to beat a skill challenge (which are hidden all over the world) to get skillpoints. With those you can buy your skills, when you have unlocked all your empty skillslots (3 utility skillslots and 1 elite skillslot aren’t unlocked at first).

    3.) …why this is important: As a lv.80 player your skillpool is bigger. (e.g. all 20 utility skills), but this doesn’t mean that those are more powerful. A level 30 character can have bought 3 utility skills which are a good choice for dungeon30.

    4.) So it only makes sense: all of them:
    -) the level 30 player
    -) the level 80 player (downscaled to “effective level 30″)
    have the same the same endgame-hardcore difficult level for this lv.30 explorable mode dungeon.
    The lv.80 player has a bigger pool to choose his skills from, but these aren’t superior. (not when he is downscaled).

    –> so all dungeons are endgame-dungeons.
    –> all dungeons will stay endgame-dungeons, even with new expansions.

    there will be added dungeons later. Each dungeon is made highly repeatable. There are 3 unique paths in each explorable mode dungeon with specific bosses, a lot of optional bosses who spawn randomly, and a lot of random dynamic events in those dungeons as well. An example was a hidden cave which got opened and somehow you could summon a huge ghostarmy which helped you defeating a strong boss.

    8 dungeons at release means 8×3 = 24 different highly repeatable very hard dungeons. You can’t outgear dungeons. They will stay hard forever.

    Imagine the epic battle against Illidan. Today this encounter is nothing near as epic as it was a couple of years ago. Now think of it:

    Illidan in GW2:
    You are a Cataplayer (lv.85) who never experienced Illidan. You go back to the Black Temple. Now your character, your stats etc. get scaled to the max. dungeon level 70. You have the same hard dungeon run someone had a few years ago.

    furthermore: you got the Warclaive of Azzinoth. It is lv.70. No problem, use a transmutation stone and turn it into a lv.85 weapon. Epic!

    Don’t forget: Explorable mode dungeons in GW2 are hard. Everyone who played them would confirm this. I think one of the mods here played one, am I right? Don’t know if Rubi played only Story mode or explorable mode too.

    • http://twitter.com/Salamolign Salamol

      Dungeons designed to be more difficult will be difficult to someone who is given a character and a couple of hours to try them! When they are attempted by the playerbase, they will be done after hundreds of hours worth of learning your character while leveling. Eventually (though not necessarily all the far into the future) players will have done each dungeon multiple times, and at that point we’ll see just how difficult (and repeatable) they are.

  • Richard S

    Good podcast this week.   It was cool how you got the Ambassador video winner.  It would be fun to see other everyman/woman folks from the community in the future.

    Take out the crap!  Well said Rubi.   And SOE has brainwashed the MMO community.  It didn’t help that for years MMO developers just regurgitated the same MMO formulas either.

    Very insightful observation by Dan regarding how raiding is incredibly segregating to the server community.   Raiding guilds create such tightly knit cliches that segregation is the obvious and unavoidable result when you think about it.  

    I had never considered that ArenaNet might have dumped raiding not because the mechanics were tedious, but because it would destroy their efforts to build a community on the game servers.   That makes a great deal of sense.    I think player competition mechanics should be kept in PvP (where the REAL competition is :)

    I also agree have to agree with Gary on the point about the conversation/story cut scenes. I really hope that ArenaNet will at least add some camera panning to break up the scenes.   That will also help to avoid noticing how some characters look like they need to use the bathroom as Rubi pointed out.

  • Guest

    Good podcast this week.   It was cool how you got the Ambassador video winner.  It would be fun to see other everyman/woman folks from the community in the future.

    Take out the crap!  Well said Rubi.   And SOE has brainwashed the MMO community.  It didn’t help that for years MMO developers just regurgitated the same MMO formulas either.

    Very insightful observation by Dan regarding how raiding is incredibly segregating to the server community.   Raiding guilds create such tightly knit cliches that segregation is the obvious and unavoidable result when you think about it.  

    I had never considered that ArenaNet might have dumped raiding not because the mechanics were tedious, but because it would destroy their efforts to build a community on the game servers.   That makes a great deal of sense.    I think player competition mechanics should be kept in PvP (where the REAL competition is :)

    I also agree have to agree with Gary on the point about the conversation/story cut scenes. I really hope that ArenaNet will at least add some camera panning to break up the scenes.   That will also help to avoid noticing how some characters look like they need to use the bathroom as Rubi pointed out.

  • Anonymous

    If you move up and down levels to experience content, whether it be going back to experience cool content your missed, or going from 1 to 80 to play some WvWvW, then levels really don’t matter for most of the game, and that is what we called lateral progression. It’s a pretty forward thinking dynamic of modern MMOGs and in my mind could lead to a great deal more longevity to GW2 than a ‘standard’ MMOG with linear progression as ALL content is potentially ‘end game’. Perhaps now you know what they mean by ‘all content is end game’. The example of ‘going back to Karahzan’ is a good one because in GW2 you can go back and experience that and still find it challenging and fun even if it’s years old content.

    For those who play(ed) Guild Wars, it’s much the same way. There is a cap, but you hit it so fast and there is so much content a new 20 has yet to experience that the leveling is just a small part of the overall game.

  • Xaielao

    If you move up and down levels to experience content, whether it be going back to experience cool content your missed, or going from 1 to 80 to play some WvWvW, then levels really don’t matter for most of the game, and that is what we called lateral progression. It’s a pretty forward thinking dynamic of modern MMOGs and in my mind could lead to a great deal more longevity to GW2 than a ‘standard’ MMOG with linear progression as ALL content is potentially ‘end game’. Perhaps now you know what they mean by ‘all content is end game’. The example of ‘going back to Karahzan’ is a good one because in GW2 you can go back and experience that and still find it challenging and fun even if it’s years old content.

    For those who play(ed) Guild Wars, it’s much the same way. There is a cap, but you hit it so fast and there is so much content a new 20 has yet to experience that the leveling is just a small part of the overall game.

  • Anonymous

    i play mmos for skill based pvp. in gw2 it seems like all there is to do is basicly battlegrounds and wvw which tbh i feel will get boring fast. no world pvp no arena. i dont see what will keep me playing this game. i love rpg story but if i want to play a game for a story ill play a single player game. i dont even see why this is called guild wars at all. theres no guild conflict that i can see.

  • rhithm

    i play mmos for skill based pvp. in gw2 it seems like all there is to do is basicly battlegrounds and wvw which tbh i feel will get boring fast. no world pvp no arena. i dont see what will keep me playing this game. i love rpg story but if i want to play a game for a story ill play a single player game. i dont even see why this is called guild wars at all. theres no guild conflict that i can see.

  • Anonymous

    why is there no world pvp in this game? if people dont want to be botherd with it thats what pve servers are for. and if u argue that theres no factions they could have made it guild vs guild. it is the name of there game afterall. its not like higher lvl ganking is possible. or am i the only person who enjoys world pvp and competitve pvp alike. i just havnt heard much about it everyone is talking about pve.

  • rhithm

    why is there no world pvp in this game? if people dont want to be botherd with it thats what pve servers are for. and if u argue that theres no factions they could have made it guild vs guild. it is the name of there game afterall. its not like higher lvl ganking is possible. or am i the only person who enjoys world pvp and competitve pvp alike. i just havnt heard much about it everyone is talking about pve.

  • http://twitter.com/Zederok Zederok Alario

    Sorry Shawn, if they ever added Raiding to GW2 I will quit.  From the very stages of this game design and their philosophy ANet has stated that GW2 is all about community building and not designed to harm or interfere with the community.  Raiding begets elitism which begets anti-community.  Why cant we just categorically state that GW2 will not be for a select percentage of gamers and leave it at that.  I mean its not like there are 400 other raiding centric games on the market for those types.  I do not want to see this type of player in my MMO, I want to see more traditional old school, communities that games like Asherons Call or DAoC fostered.

    Just because its called guild wars does not mean it should foster elitism and anti-social behaviors within guilds that Raiding enevitably promotes.  Not only that World of Warcraft, Rift and SWTOR all have names that doesnt match their titles either, theres no world at war in WoW, and Rift does not promote the use of their Rifts and SWTOR should of been renames Star Wars the Old Empire because the republic is non existant in that game.

    • http://twitter.com/Bahska Bahska

      Raiding and better gear also give a sense of progression it’s not for the elite factor for most people.

      Otherwise you grind to look pretty which i think will not only turn people off, but get boring.

  • http://twitter.com/Zederok Steve Mink Jr.

    Sorry Shawn, if they ever added Raiding to GW2 I will quit.  From the very stages of this game design and their philosophy ANet has stated that GW2 is all about community building and not designed to harm or interfere with the community.  Raiding begets elitism which begets anti-community.  Why cant we just categorically state that GW2 will not be for a select percentage of gamers and leave it at that.  I mean its not like there are 400 other raiding centric games on the market for those types.  I do not want to see this type of player in my MMO, I want to see more traditional old school, communities that games like Asherons Call or DAoC fostered.

    Just because its called guild wars does not mean it should foster elitism and anti-social behaviors within guilds that Raiding enevitably promotes.  Not only that World of Warcraft, Rift and SWTOR all have names that doesnt match their titles either, theres no world at war in WoW, and Rift does not promote the use of their Rifts and SWTOR should of been renames Star Wars the Old Empire because the republic is non existant in that game.

  • ZhadoTom

    The point of  the side kicking down is an anti-griefing mechanism, it prevents level 80’s coming down and ruining dynamic events and the point of leveling is to give the game progression, even though you can be side kicked up when partied with somebody, when alone you will NOT be able to enter higher level content, thus giving us a reason to level up.

  • fcdwn777

    This chick says that she thinks raiding is 2 hours of prep, loot bickering, drama, etc. Obviously she has never been in any kind of decent raiding guild, because if she were she would know that this is not an issue as much as she claims it is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maximus-Meridius/100003718297659 Maximus Meridius

    What fcdwn777 said, bitch has no clue.

    “Raiding begets elitism which begets anti-community”

    Are you fucking serious Steve Mink Jr? Do you suck at raiding are have you never gotten in a decent guild because you suck, do you have some kind of jealousy complex? Buuhuu lets not let those mean elitist into the game and make everything easy so nobody can be better than me! What kind of Marxist bullshit is that?  You have just as little clue as that bitch. 

    I’m not an elitist, i’m in a casual guild where we raid 2 times a week, i do it because it’s fun and challenging, because i like to get together with those people and overcome a challenge, not because i want to rub it in someones face, and honestly, who even does that? You seem to have some sort of false image in your head.  I hope they do add raids so we will get rid of pansies like you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maximus-Meridius/100003718297659 Maximus Meridius

    Another thing is that competitive PvP( which GW2 has) begets elitism far more than raids, so your arguments falls apart.

  • http://twitter.com/Bahska Bahska

    2 hours of prep? That happens? where? i have played warcraft for 5 years and never once took 2 hours to prep before every raid (Or any raid even a new one) or after and i have been with nooby guilds and really good guilds.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

       Yeah, they’re just trying to defend a design decision that, good or bad, is not going to make GW2 appeal to everyone. Doesn’t matter how good the leveling process is (SWTOR), there is nothing wrong with people enjoying Raiding and if GW2 does not have it, then there’s no reason for that type of player to play the game.

  • http://twitter.com/Bahska Bahska

    Also deathwing when did you turn purple and silver? :3

  • http://twitter.com/Bahska Bahska

     Or it could mean your doing the same content over and over again, sure you can say there is a ton of dynamic events but there just group quests with a flashy name.

    Wow will have level scaling in MoP but it will have many other things as well as all of the content it already has.
    It has the sense of progression, it has the grinding, it has the pvp, it has the questing and it will soon have the level scaling and challenge modes for all dungeons.

    So why should i a 5 year wow player who is happy with wow leave to play a game that has less things to do?

    That’s a question i ask myself with every new mmo.

    • Xaielao

      Why even consider switching at all? GW2 is buy to play. You won’t have a second monthly fee to worry about, you can just buy it and play it as often as you like or hardly at all after that first few months. I personally haven’t played WoW in a few years so I’ve been looking for a new MMOG. With GW2 being b2p I’ll play that and probably The Secret World when that hits, etc. This is something a lot of folks have yet to get their heads around. GW2 requires no commitment.

      As to ‘all game is end game’ could mean you do the same content over and over, isn’t this what you end up doing as ‘end game’ in all the big MMOGs? With GW2 you have all levels worth of content to play at any level essentially, with say WoW you have the one or two raids your doing with your guild, the 1-5 random 5 mans and the 20+ daily quests to do at end game. It’s why I left. Not bashing the game, this is pretty much the standard but it wasn’t enough for me.

      I’m glad MoP adds level scaling, it will help remove the burden of increased levels with future expansions that make any previous content obsolete. I always hated that.

      Last I’d say you need to do some research if you think Dynamic Events are just group quests by another name.