Written by: (@garygannon) | October 11, 2012 5:36 pm

54 Comments

Azubu Frost was fined $30,000 for taking a peek at the mini map during Game 1 against TSM.  Everyone seems to have their own opinion on the subject so we decided to ask you…the viewer, what do you think? Was $30K enough or should AZF have been disqualified?

Should AZF Have Been Disqualified?

  • Michael Hartzheim

    I’d disqualify them. But if that’s the case, you have to seriously ask yourself if the other teams should also be disqualified. Cheating is cheating, regardless of the severity or results of doing so.

  • http://www.facebook.com/thomas.williamson.31 Thomas Williamson

    should be DQ

  • http://twitter.com/Hoigwai Hoigwai

    They should have been DQ’d, cheating just shouldn’t be endorsed in any way.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507687881 Kyle Schmelzer

    I think any team that was caught cheating should have their matches re-played, and their winnings halved. But now that we have the finals set, that wont happen.

  • jayremy

    Probably a DQ but Riot needs to fix their tournament. I think Riot needs to catch it or prevent reasonable measures of being able of cheating. Most lenient case I would say is allow the offended team to be given the win or a rematch, fining doesn’t really show for anything. It has to be a ruling that deals with the game and tournament ladder, not money.

    It is tempting and too easy to just turn your neck at the screen and that part of the problem isn’t that of the team players.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Reyna/1830988318 Jonathan Reyna

    I’ve been saying this from the start. Yes they should have been DQ’d its unacceptable to be allowed to continue in a professional tournament. TSM is one of the most respected, oldest teams in the league community and I feel they were wronged by a team that hasn’t even been playing professionally for a year.

    • Michael Hartzheim

       TSM cheated, too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Reyna/1830988318 Jonathan Reyna

        Please get your facts straight before trying to justify AZF, “Quarterfinal #3, (restarted) Game 1 (AZF v. TSM) during game pause – TSM Dyrus turned his head to determine whether it was feasible to see the minimap screens from the stage. TSM obtained no direct meaningful benefits from Dyrus’ action as the game was restarted, but we have issued a warning.” There was a picture of him with his headset off, looking upwards during a pause with an admin right next to him, talking. It wasn’t during the game, and the screen was black. So no Dyrus did not cheat.

        • Michael Hartzheim

          “TSM Dyrus violated the rules by looking at the stage screens. This
          violation, however, did not yield any meaningful benefits for TSM.”

          He violated the rules. That is cheating. It is irrelevant to the definition of cheating whether or not there were meaningful benefits.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Reyna/1830988318 Jonathan Reyna

            Because it was during a pause when the screen was black… of course it didn’t yield anything beneficial but I see rationalizing with you is pointless because you simply want to be right and make TSM look like the trash you’re defending AF.

          • Shaikh Omar

            Getting something beneficial or not isn’t not a point in rationalizing that he broke the rules. Dyrus violated the rules and attempted by looking at the screen. That by the rules is cheating. Doesn’t matter if he gathered anything useful or not. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Reyna/1830988318 Jonathan Reyna

            Yeah again I’m done trying to rationalize with you people you clearly wont change your biased opinion even though I quoted word for word Riots analysis on “cheating” in regards to TSM. 

          • Michael Hartzheim

            And I also quoted Riot’s words in the analysis. You’re the one that is biased. I am not an AZF apologist, if you read my very first reply to this thread you’d see that I raise the question of disqualifying all teams that were found to cheat.

            To put it bluntly, I wanted TSM to win the whole thing. I just find it appalling to claim that they were 100% innocent in this when they, in FACT, broke the rules of the competition and therefore cheated.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Reyna/1830988318 Jonathan Reyna

            Please what part of my rebuttal was biased? The fact that I quoted and sided with word for word Riots 1:1 analysis of the situation when you paraphrased and clearly didn’t understand it in its entirety and then try to tell me I’m bias? Please.When you say TSM cheated you’re implying they gained an advantage that is the definition of cheating but because they didn’t since the game was being restarted anyways they were warned to not turn around. So I know that’s a lot to digest and swallow that in curiosity of the possibility AZF might be cheating Dyrus wanted to confirm his concern and looked when there was absolutely no harm in doing so but you label him as a “cheater” and lump him in with  others that actually cheated by definition, really boggles my mind.  Sure he could have asked an admin beforehand to see if it was okay but do you really think they’re going to say yes? Of course not, so again he looked when he knew there would be no penalty for doing so and that he would be harming no one in the process. That’s not really cheating I’m sorry to break it to you.

          • Michael Hartzheim

            Your bias comes in claiming that I paraphrased when in FACT I copy and pasted Riot’s words 1:1, just like you. You are refusing to acknowledge that Riot has declared, in their own words, that TSM broke the rules.

            If you want to say that isn’t cheating, then you’re arguing semantics.

    • Michael Hartzheim

       Alright, let’s try this again.

      I can admit that, according to the literal definition of the term, I misused the word “cheat”. The definition states that cheating is “an unfair or dishonest act in an attempt to gain an advantage”. What Dyrus did was neither unfair nor dishonest. (However, Chaox looking over at AZF during the match is questionable. You would have to determine the intent of his actions to know if it was dishonest or not.)

      In my defense, I, and I believe most people, generally consider cheating to be any intentional violation of the rules. Gaining an advantage is not a prerequisite of the literal definition or the generally accepted interpretation of the definition.

      (I do want to point out that your definition of cheating is also incorrect. Your definition requires an advantage to actually be gained, which is not true at all. Simply attempting to gain an advantage is all the definition requires.)

      That said, I mostly agree, and have always mostly agreed with what you have to say.

      The funny thing is, I don’t consider Dyrus’ actions to be the most offensible action taken by TSM. I think it is a much larger offense that Chaox looked over at AZF during the match. Otherwise Dyrus never would have known that AZF looked at the screen, and he himself never would have looked. As I said earlier, we do not know, and will never know, what the intent of Chaox was when he looked over at AZF. The teams were instructed, multiple times, to look forward the entire time. Chaox intentionally broke this rule by looking over to observe AZF.

      Also, it is unfair of you to call any of my arguments biased. I made my arguments in the same exact fashion as you did, by directly quoting Riot.

      So, can we hug and be friends now?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Reyna/1830988318 Jonathan Reyna

        You’re right but you know what I meant that if you intend on cheating you’re aiming to gain an advantage somewhere down the line and for Dyrus this just wasn’t true which is what I was trying to get across. I’m glad you can agree and come to a civil, rational conclusion even after all the nasty things I said. So yes we can hug and be friends. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/justin.pfeifer.58 Justin Pfeifer

    Azubu Frost should have been DQed and banned from participating in any tourneys for a year minimum.

  • http://www.facebook.com/inkogni.alex Inkogni Alex

    well cheating is asking for a punch in the face, Riot kinda messed on there part also.
    rematch is what id like to see. so the public (WE) can have a match to watch, but DQ needs to happen so other fools don’t try this

  • Maximiliano Bassanetti

    Its funny, because almost every team in the tournament got warnings for doing the same as AZF. Even that, they were WAY better than TSM in every aspect of the game. Their jungling was so agressive that TSM jungling barely could get red 2 or 3 times. The only thing I saw after the game ended, was TSM and CLG fans QQing way too much.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rasmus.nielsen.75491 Rasmus Nielsen

    They should’ve been DQ’ed and Fined the 30K and Banned *ALL* the people who cheated

  • Shaikh Omar

    Honestly if you were to DQ AZF for peeking, you should DQ every other team for peeking (which in turn was already a decent part of the tournament). The main difference is that AZF gained something this time. However what people are saying is that every other team that peeked didn’t gain anything in return and thus they should be okay. It’s like saying you peeked at a friends test for answers in school, saw his answers were wrong and decided not to copy them. Did you gain anything? No. Did you cheat? Yes. The same thing can be said here. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rj-Markham/1516516520 Rj Markham

    Disqualify them. WTH they shouldn’t be in the finals at all now, what bullshit -.-. I mean seriously Riot needs to get there shiz, together. Whats more sad is i doubt that AZF is the only team who did this. The whole tournament is a shame in this case, what crap.

  • Unknownman14

    There is no such thing as a good cheat, I’d say full DQ since 2 million is on the line. Riot really dropped the ball on this on my opinion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1451529456 Ryan Wilson

    2 things. Disqualify them, then sort your shit our Riot. If you want to be taken seriously then do things properly. 

  • http://twitter.com/Khelendross Chris Black

    Not having Azubu Frost in the finals would completely illegitimize a already damaged Worlds imo. While I don’t think 30k was enough, a DQ would do more harm than good to the sport as a whole.

    On another note the matches yesterday were amazing, but I’ve been rooting for TPA since their dominance over M5, and this certainly won’t change that. Go TPA!

  • Bwcultist

    Automatic DQ

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Ruel/1460327749 Mike Ruel

    They should have had the setup that MLG Anaheim had with the sound-proof booths. Make it blacked out in the back so you cant see screens or anything but the crowd, your team and your computer screens. The best way to avoid cheaters is prevent methods of cheating.

  • Daniel Farkas

    DQ for sure, but i’d say it’s more of the Riot’s (or whoever was the host that setup the place where the games were on) fault for making such an idiotic setup where you can: OH look, giant screen close to us where we can see the enemy. Human curiosity makes people look at the screen, whatever happens, except if they are strictly-trained soldiers. Just look at the setup of the Dota 2 International: no friggin way to hear, see or get any information about the enemy team from their booths.

  • http://twitter.com/viion Josh Freeman

    Cheating and they don’t get DQ? rofl, what is the point to this tournament, just cheat its no biggy when u just pay it with your winnings. Tournament is a bunch of shite and so is Riot. The set design stuff is pure common sense, my grandad would of done a better job.

  • http://twitter.com/Deilwynna Johan Bärtzner

    sure, Riot’s stage design isnt very good but still… the players should accept that you shouldnt turn around to watch the big screens like 1 of the players of AZF did

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JD5RIAPTFFZFIF3DCNYVVG7NIQ Kyle Bohannon

    lol i didnt even notice the ss of the dude obviously lookin at the minimap. so terrible.

    yep i would have dq’ed every team that was caught looking at the other screen. of course i also would have never had the screens put in a location where the opposing team could see them but thats besides the point

    cheating is cheating and now if azubu wins it all they have effectively proven that cheating gets you a slap on the wrist while still being able to compete for the 1 million grand prize.

    what im still baffled at not seeing is any kind of apology from anyone for cheating. sure you cheated and cheaters are typically looked down upon, but being the bigger person and owning up to it and apologizing would go a long way to restoring some faith to your game. just my opinion however

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrejbartik Andrej Bartík

    yes, they should have been DQ

  • WarNC

    Some of the onus has to fall on the organisers who created the poor setup, AZF are getting highlighted as they won, but every other team that did it, which has been reported AZF weren’t the only team doing it, have to be held accountable aswel.

    Also I’d like to see the official rules regarding this situation, if there is no Black and White ruling on this issue, then they can’t possibly hold AZF accountable, as any competitive professional knows they will exploit any rules to win, if they can. The organisers can only learn and adapt the rules.

  • Ravenstorm

    The person who did the cheating should be dq’ed, so that the remaining team would’ve been handicapped in the game. That way it sends a big message: don’t cheat or your chances to win will be decimated. Easy and fair. The other players didn’t cheat, just that player.

  • Henrik Abrahamsen

    TSM should have practiced more, AZF is better atm tbh… but this happening is idiotic and although they are at fault for cheating, riot is also to blame. They should never have set this up in this matter. When I realised there were no delay and on a live stage with no soundbarred booths? BG.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1085131399 Jason Watkins

    They should have been DQ’d imo, the phase they cheated in was a VERY important phase that could have changed the flow of the game.

  • http://twitter.com/tamgros Matthew Sorg

    It’s really really rare for a sports team to be disqualified post match for an infraction it commits during the game. The only sport that I can think of that nullifies victories semi frequently is the NCAA and almost unanimously, those are due to off the field, non sport related rule violations.

    To hammer the point. Remember ‘Spygate’ a few years ago where the NE Patriots were actively caught cheating, spying/taping other teams practices (mind you, much more premeditated than a glance). NO WINS WERE NULLIFIED. None. Fined 500k and denied a first round draft pick the next year. 

    Anyway, I understand the ‘DQ them!’ sentiment, but the fine certainly has precedent in the competitive sport world. 

    • http://twitter.com/TheFeyLife Fey

      This^

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Juul-Jensen/100002070567812 Peter Juul Jensen

    When it’s so easy to cheat as turning your head, come on this was such a big blunder on Riots behalf.
    Sure it’s their first big event like this … but it’s not like there haven’t been esports event before and even LoL events.
       

  • http://www.facebook.com/modnificent Modnificent Modding

    atleast give rematch be fair

  • JariKiv

    30 thousand dollars? That’s worth more than my car.

  • xXHeisenbergXx

    Wait..let me get this straight.. Are these kids being fined $30,000, owed from their very own sweaty little nerd pockets?? OR Is the 30,000 being subtracted from the prize money if they do indeed win it?? If they don’t win, do they still owe 30k lol? Who picks up that tab? Do they have loyal sponsors that back them and pay for this kind of thing? Or do these kids get outrageous salaries like professional athletes? I don’t know too much about these games..Would someone enlighten me?

    • http://twitter.com/tamgros Matthew Sorg

      They were already far enough in the tournament that they were guaranteed $150k. It’s a huge tournament, the total prize pool of the 12 teams is $2 million.

      • xXHeisenbergXx

        Wow, then they’re basically walking away with $120,000 in stolen money.. Wouldn’t surprise me if this kind of thing was planned out.. And if not, these games are gonna see a lot more cheaters in the future. I see the dilemma here.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=613400106 Francois Brisson

          Stolen money? LOLOL Yes they skipped out on the tournament and stole all the moneys. It’s not stole it’s won, it doesn’t matter what any of you think it’s not your call / decision its their’s. They decided on a fine that’s it get over it. 

  • http://twitter.com/TheMovement112 TheMovement

    DQ!!! if someone leaves there keys in their car and I
    take the car its still stealing does not matter that a person left there keys
    in their car.

    This is not riots fault !

    Riot should have DQ them and moved TSM up.

  • Covex

    I am saying DQ but this is to me mostly on Riot with their poor stage, come on, watching the dota2 international and this, the first thing I said to myself was “Can’t they hear or see whats going on from the people and the screens all over the place?” there not inclose but hey the stage rotated woot and come on if there is a 40 foot screen behind me I am going to look also because it a big ass screen. Riot if you look at this, please copy what they do in most MLG and Dota2 tournaments.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Thenatoes Jason Matzke

    NO because that was at start of the game didn’t have nothing to do with OUT CS’ing them OUT PLAYING THEM. and TSM Did the same Dyrus. Will People drop this already TSM, can claim what ever. because they start the QQ. TSM was fault they turn down Korea to play. And this is bio’s reporting TSM.  So TSM cheated too and still lost so CHEATING cheating right so tsm should ban too so AZF and TSM  should be kicked out of the tournament END of story!!!

  • RJTravis

    DQ The player on the team that cheated & fine him 30k.

    The team should be tax’ed with -15% of all winnings as well to promote fair play.

    The player that cheated should be DQ for the next riot event.

  • H S

    Pretty sad we have people who actually are ok with cheating. I fear for the future if this is the mindset of the younger people. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/nick.frost.3910 Nick Frost

    Disqualified. People hate it when you screen-look in couch coop versus. The only difference here is the 30k prize pool. They should’ve been banned.

  • http://twitter.com/Bobrot R. C.

    If Riot felt their actions warranted punishment, then yes a dq should have been the result. Imo on that large a stage you can’t be pulling crap like that.

  • pandora005

    Either you cheat or you dont cheat … there is no “half-cheating” just like there is no “half-pregnant”. So either they are innocent and dont deserve a fine OR they are guilty and have to be disqualified. Since they are fined it seems that Riot feels it proven that they cheated and thus they should have been disqualified … no matter how terrible the stage design was.

    The guy who designed the stage needs to be fired in any case. It would have been simple to borrow the booths from MLG OR to have the players seated to the side but behind the big screen. Having a clear view of the audience will ALWAYS enable cheating and with such a big prize pool Riot should have taken no chances. Booths are a MUST HAVE!

RECOMMENDED FOR YOU
Take a Poll

What Is Your Most Anticipated MMO?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...
Monday
6 pst

The Republic

Star Wars The Old Republic

Tuesday
9:30 pst

After Dark

Live Call In Show

n/a

Monty's Minute

Have Questions? He Has Answers

Wednesday
3 pst

OMGLOL

League Of Legends Drama

6 pst

Guildcast

Guild Wars 2

8 pst

Klaus & Squirrel

Gameplay Duo

Thursday
8 pst

Legendary

World of WarCraft

Friday
3 pst

TWIMMO

This Week In MMO



TOP GAMES
Guild Wars 2 MMO News
Genre: MMORPG Fantasy
Developer: Arenanet
Metacritic Score: 90
The Elder Scrolls Online MMORPG News
Genre: MMORPG Fantasy
Developer: Zenimax
Metacritic Score: n/a
World of Warcraft MMO News
Genre: MMORPG Fantasy
Developer: Blizzard
Metacritic Score: 82
SWTOR MMO News
Genre: MMORPG SciFi
Developer: Bioware
Metacritic Score: 85
League of Legends News
Genre: MOBA
Developer: Riot
Metacritic Score: 78