ArenaNet Responds To Gear Grind Speculation

The announcement that Guild Wars 2 would be adding a new item type called Ascended in this weekend’s Lost Shore patch has created quite a stir in the community.  That’s actually understating it a bit.  Folks are freaking out!  The Ascended items will sport slightly better stats than the current top Exotic items, which is causing players to jump to the conclusion that there will be a gear treadmill in place.  The feedback from fans has been so feverish that a thread on the official forums has reached over 7000 replies and 70,000 views!

ArenaNet’s Studio Design Director, Chris Whiteside, went to the forums last night in an attempt to convince fans to put away the torches and pitchforks and talk about things like rational adults.  He explains that they view large updates—like the Lost Shores—as expansion packs and therefore want to provide ample progression to support that content.

He then clarifies their intent by stating, “Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

One of the major concerns is that Ascended items are only obtained through the new Fractals of the Mists dungeon coming this weekend.  Players who hate dungeons or are only interested in World vs. World would feel obligated to farm the Fractals dungeon for the more powerful gear.  Mr. Whiteside assuaged these fears by stating that eventually Ascended and Infusion items will be available in both PvE and WvW and structured PvP will remain unaffected by these changes.

Check out the Chris Whiteside’s post in its entirety and then let us know what you think.  Do you feel better after reading these clarifications?  Post a comment below!

  • http://twitter.com/Toraneko9 Michael Lauria

    I am in the wait and see camp and Arena Net hasn’t disappointed me yet. There is one thing that i thought strange, why do you need a gap filler between exotic and Legendary when the stats were the same and it was only cosmetic and rarity that made Legendary gear different at all.

    • Joseph Legemah

      they clearly mean the gap in time it takes to acquire…and you sure as shit do need something like that.

      • http://twitter.com/Toraneko9 Michael Lauria

        The why not make ascended cooler looking  cosmetic gear but not quite as cool as Legendary. Yet still keep all the stats  in line with exotics. Then make the time it takes earning said gear  somewhere in between. *playing devil’s advocate*

        • Joseph Legemah

          go run all the content in GW2 that does not spam you with agony(99%) and tell me that ascended gear with an infusion is more powerful than exotics with runes and sigils….

          • http://twitter.com/Toraneko9 Michael Lauria

            The Ascended gear isn’t live so what you are suggesting isn’t possible and at best speculation. I was posing the question about the need to close a gap that didn’t exist stat and power wise.My point being If it was about the gap in time between getting exotic gear and getting legendary gear, then items could be created that could be earned through progression that were special cosmetically but didn’t require the extreme effort that legendaries do.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bill-Lia/57201115 Bill Lia

           Because what is cool and uncool is very subjective. What you think is awesome another might think looks really silly.

          • http://twitter.com/Toraneko9 Michael Lauria

             The whole point to Legendary gear was the rarity and cosmetic aspects. It was a set of gear that wasnt necessary that was for purely aesthetics and the prestige of having one. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bill-Lia/57201115 Bill Lia

             I get that… but again was is “cool” looking and “uncool” is subjective. You wont please everybody.

          • http://twitter.com/Toraneko9 Michael Lauria

            Same with styles of play, so adding another tier of gear with higher stats could also be “uncool” to some people..which explains the crazy rage-storm on the forums. Your last statement is exactly true especially in MMOs you really wont please everybody.

    • http://twitter.com/Marioz08 BlackFox Gaming

      I think its because  Legendary gear is the only thing after exotic gear and it takes forever to get, so for ppl that need that progression they want to add a filler to keep them busy while they work toward  Legendary gear.

  • Dubhridir

    I’m still not convinced yet…. However I’ll put my torch and pitchfork away for now,  but I’ll leave with this thought,  in their Manifesto it was stated that all level 80 gear would have the same type’s of base stats, and the only difference being cosmetic…. However, it now seems they’re retreating from that line of thought to assuage players that are from more traditional MMO’s and give them a gear progression that they’re used to having. Which is something they said they would not do…  Originally we the players were told that this kind of thing was not going to happen… However it seems the WoW and Rift crowds are winning out in their opinions… Of course this is all speculation,  but this is how these things start.  We’ll see how things progress in the future,  I just hope it doesn’t get to out of hand.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-Vossos/647768691 Tj Vossos

      you already have to grind rediculous ammounts of karma/gold to get the best set of gear so why not grind some dungeons for a slightly better stat boost that wont affect anyone

      • Dubhridir

        Because that wasn’t what players were told originally….  And it does affect players of WvWvW…..  You take someone who’s in all Exotics up against someone with Ascended , take into account both players have similar skill and proffession, the person with the higher gear will win….  It’s as simple as that…   Yes this is in theory as there will be other factors to involve,  but in theory the person with the better gear wins… It’s why if you go into WvWvW as a level 30 with level 30 gear you’re going to get creamed if you go up against someone who’s level 80….  Granted, we’re talking about a minor boost, but any advantage is still an advantage no matter how you slice it…

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-Vossos/647768691 Tj Vossos

          WvW was never intended to be balanced so if people have better gear then you its working as intended

        • http://www.facebook.com/djlanders020 Dave Landers

          Are you aware you’ve posted the same exact thing on this article seven times? Take a breath, man. Relax. It’s a game.

          • Dubhridir

             yes..yes I am  lol it seems people weren’t getting my point  ;)  But yea I’m stepping back now I’ve said my peace and hopefully people understand what I’m talking about and the perspective I was bringing

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bill-Lia/57201115 Bill Lia

      They ARE sticking to what they said. They are
      only bridging the gap in difficulty between exotic and legendary items.
      They didn’t create a new tier beyond legendary and create a gear
      treadmill. As it currently stands its fairly easy to obtain a full
      exotic set and really difficult/expensive to obtain a legendary. This is
      something to add a tiny bit of progression for semi-hardcore/hardcore
      players. This isn’t something that you can use in sPvP to gain an unfair
      advantage and eventually will be able to obtain through other means
      other then running the dungeon.

      • Dubhridir

         Are they?  Like I’m said , I’m not convinced yet… There wasn’t supposed to be a bridge between exotics and legendary… That’s the reason those items were legendary lol   You shouldn’t  *need* a gap filler…. Since the only difference originally was just supposed to be cosmetic… Again, I’ll sit back and see,  as I’ve stated prior we’ll see what the future holds….

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bill-Lia/57201115 Bill Lia

           A gap filler in difficulty in obtain not stats. The stats on the Ascended gear is only slightly greater then exotic. It seems the biggest reason to get these is for that stat that counters the debuff of the dungeon. As the dungeon continues the debuff becomes greater and greater. Its also a way to say “Yes… I tackled some of the most difficult content in the game. Standing in the main city with a hard to obtain item is half the fun of MMO’s :P.

          What is dosen’t seem to do is gate the content of actually getting in and starting the dungeon. Seems that a level 80 with level 80 gear will be able to hop right in and try it out. The only thing I have to wait and see on is what the drop rate is for the items. If the rate is to low to the point where you run it over and over and get nothing then that could have me concerned. Seeing as though again the biggest thing you need is the stat that counters the debuff.

          I am optimistic though. They could have just started handing out legendaries like candy to the point where walking through the main cities you see 30 players flying in the form of a dragon or something. ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-J-Pate-Terry/1008819820 Joshua J. Pate-Terry

    Funny, I don’t feel any better after reading Whiteside’s post. Honestly the whole thing just feels contrived, which isn’t helped by the fact that there doesn’t seem to be a good sense of unity in how the content is described.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-Vossos/647768691 Tj Vossos

      you know there already is gear progression in game, common, rare, exotic or progression tiers, so they are adding another, and 3 months down the road another, and so on and so forth

      • Jado Cast

        I’m not sure that’s what he meant by 3 months more content, just that armors and items will be released since Jewelry is in this release.  I wouldn’t count on higher tiers of gear releasing in the future.  

  • Joseph Legemah


    One of the major concerns is that Ascended items are only obtained through the new Fractals of the Mists dungeon coming this weekend.”

    who writes this stuff for your website? the original post by Arenanet states that you can craft ascended items.

    • Dubhridir

       you won’t be able to craft them right off the bat it sounds like…. Or that is the perceived notion… I don’t think anyone has a definitive answer about that yet, and Anet hasn’t come right out and said you’ll be able to right off the bat.  That is something else we may have to just sit back and see…. I’m sure more info about that will become available as this event unfolds and people start seeing what they can or cannot craft with this new content….

      • Joseph Legemah

        take a breath and step back from GW2 posts until your mind resets.

        in their initial posting about this whole content update they state that ascended gear is craftable and they will be adding recipees for it.

        the only things coming later are ascended WEAPONS and ARMOR since only trinkets will be released with this update. 

        • Dubhridir

           Well that’s one of the reasons I’m putting the pitch fork away… for now….  No one has confirmed 100% you’ll able to craft them with this new content coming out,  yet…. They just said “eventually”  Again however,  I’ll point it out again,  we were told as players that this kind of thing would not be happening, and this is how a gear progression starts… I understand the other players points of view from my time in WoW for 6 years… However I came to this game because I got tired of a gear progression grind… That’s the main reason people aren’t being receptive to this information…. Doesn’t matter if you can craft it, dungeon runs, or any other method to obtain it… The point being, Anet said originally that there would not be a gear progression… We’ll just have to sit back and see how this goes, and as I stated prior,  see how this unfolds in the future…

  • http://www.facebook.com/rammur65 Roger Means

    Grind or not the game is freakin free to play after buying it so why freakin qq when your not wasting a monthly sub really why people need to quit b*ching about every little damn thing.

    • Dubhridir

       And what does F2P have to do with a developer sticking to what they told players originally before the game launched?  You do realize it was that very Manifesto that lured a lot of players to this game looking for a change right?   That’s the reason people are up in arms at the moment, and it has nothing to do with the fact this game doesn’t have a sub…..

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-Vossos/647768691 Tj Vossos

        theres a grind for gear already so they are adding more of it big whoop

        • Dubhridir

           Yea, which is something else they said wouldn’t happen in their Manifesto…. However, I think you’ve missed the point entirely…  And if you can’t read what everyone is talking about,  then I believe I’m wasting my time here with you…

        • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

          If sticking to their manifesto and promise, then there shouldn’t have been a stat progression tagged onto it. They went back on that promise to cater to people who are conditioned by other MMOs that came to GW2 without first researching what horizontal progression is.

          That is what the majority of players are upset about; not the fact of more gear grind.

          • Jado Cast

            I think we should reserve judgement until the content is released before saying they went back on a promise.

    • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

      Vertical gear progression is not a “little damn thing”; especially when they said and promised there never would be such a thing in GW2. The fact that there is a stat increase of “tiers” now, means there is a start of vertical gear progression going into the game now. A lot of players bought this game based on the promise from ArenaNet themselves that there wouldn’t be this type of progression.

      Perhaps before you go spouting off preadolescent like behavior, you should try to see things from other players perspectives. I suppose that might be too much to ask, you know, maturity and all on the internet.

      • http://www.facebook.com/djlanders020 Dave Landers

        I don’t see this as a gear progression, considering Legendaries are still the top tier. This is more of an intermediate step between Exotic and Legendary. “Gear Progression” would be if they added SUPER LEGENDARY items.

        • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

          There are now stat differences in the “tiers”. That is a vertical progression ladder no matter how you look at it. Stat increases are stat increases.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-Vossos/647768691 Tj Vossos

            then by that logic there should be no common, rare, exotic items all gear should be normalised 

          • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

            We were told that Exotic was the final tier of stat progression and that Legendaries were same stats, different looks. Level 80 Exotic+ gear was all normalized. That was just common knowledge. Stop taking things out of proportion just to try and justify your point of view. 

            I, for one, don’t really are either way. I can however, see points from both sides and am interested to see what ArenaNet decides to do in the far future. Will they release yet another “tier” of stat based progression gear in the far future to cater to vertical traditionalists after they grind out Ascended and get bored again? We’ll just have to wait and see.

          • Jado Cast

            This is a very similar issue to what happened in GW1 when they released the Green Items with fixed stats that dropped from a Boss, that were maxed, but didn’t mean “better” than “rare/gold” items.  If history or what Anet has done in the past, I don’t think you will see any significant Tier progression.  If they didn’t have that Philosophy in GW1, then I believe they have no plans to do it in GW2 either, as they have stated in the past.

        • http://twitter.com/cipero Matt Cipriano

          Yea I hear this^. Quit your bitchin, people. Why are none of you throwing fits that legendary are superior to exotics? Why is no one whining about that? But they add a midway tier between two existing tiers and all of a sudden everyone is crying. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/jason.hightower.374 Jason Hightower

    “ view large updates—like the Lost Shores—as expansion packs and therefore want to provide ample progression to support that content.”

     ”We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

    So either Anet is not going to add large content patches every few weeks like they planned and instead only have large content updates every 3 months, or they will continue to add large content updates and therefore add in gear progression every few weeks. Which is it?

    • http://www.facebook.com/rammur65 Roger Means

      suppose to have month events big ones thats last like days and even weeks sometimes after the event the zone will still be open though.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-Vossos/647768691 Tj Vossos

        they still are doing monthly events, but monthly events will not add anywhere near as much content that is about to be added
        Monthly events and content patches arent the same thing

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-Vossos/647768691 Tj Vossos

      they never planned content patches every few weeks, they planned to add a few new events every few weeks

  • http://twitter.com/CossiePhil Phil Latham

    if gear progression starts which to me this sounds like it is, i for one will be leaving the game. i dont have time to grind for gear. the one main reason i play this game is because you need skill to win not gear. getting like WoW already and im not liking this one bit. gear progression sucks for people with jobs and not alot of time to play. if this continues then i think it will hurt the game.

    • http://www.facebook.com/shane.cominotto Shane Cominotto

      Did you not read what he said ? he says its a reward for new content and i saw the stats its 2 points apart insted of 48 power it gives 50….  and so on thats realy nothing besides it gives players something to do.

      • http://twitter.com/Xanius Cameron

        It’s not 2 points, it’s 5 total because you have to account for the upgrade bonus that is built in to it. Also, in their example they showed a 7% MF exotic and a 10% MF ascended. That’s a 42%ish percent increase for that particular stat.

        However, I’m not too worried about it. Even if this logic goes against the original message they passed around of “Legendaries are no better than exotics, they just look cooler.”

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1339406775 Matthew Riddle

          It doesn’t really matter if it’s a 10% increase or a 3% increase, as long as there is an increase in stat, players will feel a need to acquire it, and demand their teammates to do the same. And so will future content take these accumulative small increases into account when scaling the difficulty of bosses.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kendrick-Panh-Washington/583384072 Kendrick Panh Washington

          MF is such a miniscule stat, however. It’s really not going to be that much of a difference, just different looks, which is fine.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=642846878 David Cross

    After playing a smuggler who couldn’t smuggle and dealing with the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies, ANet has a LONG way to go to get me to freak about about ruining their game.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HRRXC5WEZJ24AOHVQOZBDG4U5I Apexfail

    So here’s a thought how about they release new armor and weapons in the content update with the same stats as the old gear; do that every time so no one thinks there is gear progression. Then in 6 months from now nothing has changed and the game is dull and boring. I hope they bring gear progression, maybe I would play more. Maxed lvl with nothing to do… throw in a carrot on a stick with no sub and I’ll play everyday. Weapon and armor skins can only go so far.

    • Dubhridir

      So you’ve done 100% map completion, went through all the story modes and explorable mode dungeons in the game,  maxed out 2 professions on your character, completed every jump puzzle in the game and got the achievement for it etc..etc……  When will players learn that gear progression isn’t content,  its just filler because the Dev’s can’t be more creative when bringing out new content… This game has a lot of content that you can do that isn’t filler.. And if gear progression is what you need to not be bored then I’m not sure you understand what this game was originally supposed to be and Anet’s intentions of what they were trying to accomplish with this game….  Perhaps a game like Tera would be for you since it has raids and gear progression

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1033886191 Charlie Grim

        Yes cause ALL players that play Guild Wars 2 should get 100%, all players should do all the jump puzzels, all players should craft?!?!  Really??  When I came into Guild Wars 2 and listening to what A-Net had to say it came down to one thing, they wanted to create a game you could jump into a game and do what you want to do within the bounds of their world.  I think attacking somebody with that response goes against what GW2 is partly about so makes me wonder if your issue with “gear progression” is valid, when you have a mind set that people need to do all those other things to play Guild Wars.  And from my point of view of this game, and from the many other MMOs I have played, I find this content hardly to be true gear progression.  And I have no problem with you being against it but just find your response to Apex invalid.

        • Dubhridir

          Fair enough,  how about this then… Anet said they wanted to get away from the “carrot on a stick” type of MMO..  Hence Apex’s comment really goes against their original intentions… I was trying to suggest , and failed it seemed,  that there are things to do in this game and to be bored means a player hasn’t fully explored all of the options available to them when it comes to playing… The other point I was trying to make is that a gear progression grind doesn’t equate to more or better content..  Basically, if a gear progression, carrot on a stick, MMO is what they want,  they maybe playing the wrong game…

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/HRRXC5WEZJ24AOHVQOZBDG4U5I Apexfail

             Dubhridir, I can see where you are coming from with the list o things I could be doing to play more GW2. I have 72% of the map uncovered and have only 1 profession maxed. Honestly I have no drive to max another profession. Why would I need to max another profession? Or complete all the jumping puzzles or craft a legendary? What you are saying is I haven’t “played” the game in its entirety. That’s like telling me I didn’t finish Assassins Creed 3 (which I did) because I skipped all the side missions. I feel I HAVE finished GW2 for the time being because most of my friends have too. I am not the only one complaining about there being nothing to really do that means anything at 80. Yes I heard somewhere GW2 would not have gear progression, but if they want to continue to make money they are going to have to get with the times and do something more than a several thousand people want. The mmorpg player wants a grind, they may not admit it, but 10+ million subs to panda land say otherwise. I have high hopes for GW2, and will continue to play now and then.

  • ZekePrince

    Yep.  I knew they had it under control.  As long as there are alternative ways to get the gear, then all is well.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1033886191 Charlie Grim

    In this game’s case better gear will just make a good player better.  Guild Wars 2 is about the weapon and utilities you use for situations.  A level 40 can still defeat a level 80 with full exotic gear if the 40 is skilled and can counter the 80′s moves.   Maybe a little harder to kill but the truth still remains it happens all the time in WvW.  To me this is A-Net saying, hey we see some people want something new to do, this is one way to start it.  I don’t feel I have to get the gear, but I do think the dungeon sounds fun and I want to try that.  And sadly when anything like this comes up you can’t please both sides, but either way they are putting it in the game. I am one that is for it, I am mostly a PvE player, I enjoy raiding like in WoW and Rift, this is my type of content. Same time I was no where near slowing down playing the game, I still have plenty of things I want to do, this just adds to it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/radamont.zeal Radamont Zeal

    As the guy who started that post that got turned into an OMG WTF crapstorm, I have to say I’m shocked and ashamed that it’s become what it has.

    • Jado Cast

      Don’t worry, If you didn’t start it someone else would have done it.  GW will never have a progression treadmill so I’m surprised so many people freaked out.  More importantly, we haven’t even seen the content yet, so those folks need to chill and then wait to see what they are releasing.

  • Shanaeri_Ryanle

    Putting aside the increase in max stats issue and how that makes many loyal Anet customers feel We still have a gear treadmill in place now

    Remember these boosted stats apply everywhere except SPvP. So ofc you will get people wanting people to have them in the current content. Not only that new content will need to be balanced against this new tier, which will make it even more mandatory or desirable..

    Even if they never raised stats again, the gear treadmill is still there. BUT instead of moving it to basic stats they moved it to Infusions.

    They have already said that this set of infusions will not be the last.

    “As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

    Why would you need more infusion types if you were just going to stick with the single one

    Let’s say I get a nice lot of Agony protected gear. 6 months down the line we get a new monster condition called say Ouch. This now means I will have to grind an entirely new set of anti-ouch armor/insignia just to get through any gear checks. A few months after that, we are told of brand new exciting creatures who now inflict a new monster condition called Wobbly Knee. To do this I need to grind….. you get the picture

    Also currently you can only over-write an upgrade. You can salvage it, but it will destroy the armor. So you cant just keep pulling them off and on depending on where you want to go.

    It’s still a gear treadmill, does’nt matter how Anet dress it up

    I really hope GBTV does an in depth segment on this issue, and takes a careful look at the implications of it

    • http://twitter.com/cipero Matt Cipriano

      It’s not a gear treadmill..the point of adding this tier is so there is another step between exotic and legendary. I don’t see anyone whining about legendary’s having better stats than exotics. Technically you can say right now there is a treadmill from exotics to legendary… All they are doing is adding a medium between the two so it’s easier for players. 

      • Shanaeri_Ryanle

        There is no difference in stats between an Exotic and a Legendary. The only difference is cosmetic and effort required to obtain. If they wanted to create a step in between, then since the stats are the same make it a shinier than exotic item but easier to get than a legendary.
         
        It’s like someone posted on another forum “We’d like to create a new a tier between 150 & 150, so we are increasing 150 to 200 and adding in 175 and putting some shiny things around 175 to entice the people. 200 will be keeping it’s original properties thus weirdly making 175 better and more necessary to do things.”
         
        In essence, it proposes a solution to a problem that’s only created by implementing the solution.

  • Shanaeri_Ryanle

    … Wrong part of the disucssion., please remove :)

  • Jado Cast

    Return of the Mursaat anyone?  That’s what we should be talking about.  :)

    • RBHgamer

      Absolutely, Agony condition, and infused armor… i remember it well.  That seems far more interesting than arguing about about a new armor type that can raise some of your stats by less than 1%.

  • theunwarshed

    people need to stop kidding themselves, this is gear/power creep/progression.  it doesn’t matter whether the percentages are small or large when it comes to defining it, it only matters to the degree in which it effects the game.  don’t buy into/contribute to the rhetoric just because you’re a fan of the game. 

    i believe that those of us who’re calling ANet out on this matter have a case.  it is a reversal of a fundamental vision/mission statement in the development of this game.  many of us came here because we were interested in playing a horizontal progression game.  has that experiment failed so soon? are we really giving it a chance to see how much the game can grow in that direction before capitulating to the standard vertical progression scheme? 

    i feel that this update can be just as successful without compromising the game’s gear integrity by simply leaving the stats alone.  there is no need to artificially inflate them.  make the mechanics of this new dungeon be based on player ingenuity/skill rather than on resistance gear acquisition. 

  • MikeTsa

    After reading Chris Whiteside’s I just feel dissappointed.

     They say there was a gap between exotics and legendaries, if there was it was a gap in effort to get and pixels not power. So starting from that they said they needed to bridge that gap by making a new tier with better stats that requiered more effort than exotics to get and also bumping the legendaries stats when “needed”.

     All this while saying that there will not be a gear treadmill but they will be adding new gear with better stats in the patches to follow with the promise that they will “someday” stop adding better gear -.- .

     All this makes no sence to me, a far cry from the “effort gives better looks, power is equal” they promised and I’m tired of arguing, if you don’t see it that way no problem. I’ll keep playing but not with the same mindset and dedication to this game and company

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Caliolo/100003765889295 Robert Caliolo

      I have no chance to ge a legendary, I will be stuck with exotics, even those were stolen from me when my account was hacked…that said it has not hurt me in playing the game in any way.

  • Dubhridir

    @ the unwarshed: finally… someone gets it lol    All they had to do was introduce a way to get the infusion slot onto current Exotic gear, or gods forbid,  have gear in this dungeon that’s statistically the same, but cosmetically different than any gear in game thus far, and just has an extra slot for the infusion

  • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.handibode Joseph Handibode

    Basically it is a gear grind with each new expansion according to the developer, no way around it.  They have better stats on them which means its start of gear grind.

    • Spammerbam

       ”We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect
      everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” – Christ Whiteside

      Hmm, did he say that?

  • ToriMcgrath

    Thanks Richie for keeping us updated on this!

    *sigh of relief*

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    I’m sorry Chris Whiteside’s post does not make any sense, its made it more confusing.  As the game stand today, legendary gear has the same stats as exotic gear. Correct?

    But he stated, “Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.”

    So what level gear will legendary eventually become?

    • Gronba

      Well on the part of what legendaries eventual will become – my guess is as good as yours. My guess is it will be equal to what ever the second most difficult tier is, until they introduce a tier that is more difficult to get than legendaries, then legendaries will become the next “must have tier”.

      And yes you are correct in that legendary currently is the same as exotic, however I believe what he really meant was that ascended gear will be between the difficulty of exotic and legendary to aquire (not gear score wise): Exotic (everyone can get it fairly easy) legendary (insane grind for the most hardcore)

    • Spammerbam

       Yes, legendaries and exotics have the same stats, but it’s the amount of work required to get a legendary. As of now, it is quite easy to make/obtain an exotic, but working towards a legendary will take months making it seem like an eternity. After exotics, there’s not much to work for and the developers doesn’t want players to keep grinding to get a legendary; there has to be something in-between.

  • http://www.facebook.com/steven.schlenske Steven Schlenske

    You say progression, I say treadmill. Anyway you look at it I am not playing as much because I don’t want to waste time and money getting exotics when they will be outdated soon.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Caliolo/100003765889295 Robert Caliolo

    People complain it is a gear grind and progression. But all it is , is new gear.
    There is nothing in the book that says you must obtain this gear to play the game content. The gear will make life easier but you humans all want things in easy mode and complain that the option to get easy mode is reason to complain that it is required to do such.
    In regards to WvW and I suppose pvp down the line, t has been stated that this type of gear will be available and just as always badges and such will be required to obtain .
    It would be a better choice to have made new skills and talants for progression. That way those that have the points can spend the points to get a skill

    • Spammerbam

      Agreed.

      It’s just sad how lot of people are still stuck in the mindset that if your gears are missing that 5 points increase, the dungeon you’re running will not be successful.

      Why? Because of past experiences in previous MMOs. Now new gears are introduced and people are calling it a “new tier” and so it is a MUST HAVE or else you are underpowered and is completely behind.

      BUT, let’s say there’s no new tiers introduced. Then people will start whining about how there’s no gear progression, and so therefore, will be quitting the game.

      funny.

      • Dubhridir

        Umm reality check,  without that Agony Infusion you cannot go any further into that dungeon, and without those extra stat increases you can hang it up…
        If you can’t comprehend that,  then you’ve got blinders on…. If you can’t see that the extra stat’s in that gear, will influence the difficulty of future dungeons as well then you seriously need to step back and look at the big picture instead of just peaking through the keyhole…. It’s viewpoints like this that give people false information and hopes

        • Spammerbam

          People who’ve played GW1, like me, will recognize this. The Infusion is needed to gain the extra protection against certain enemies, not the stats. My eyes are wide open, please show me more.

          • Dubhridir

            So why not just add a way to add the infusion slots onto currrent exotics, and as I’ve said previously, why not just have the new gear be cosmetic only with the only difference being it has the infusion slot already?  Why add better stats at all then? hmm???  Because the answer is obvious,  while those certain mobs in that dungeon is what the infusion is for,  the overall dungeon increases in difficulty *each time you run it*  Anet must have figured that you’d *need* those stats later on or else you’d have wipe after wipe because you can’t down mobs fast enough or to help mitigate the ever increasing damage every time you run it….

            Now then for future dungeons?  As it stands now if they introduced a dungeon, before Ascended gear,  they wouldn’t have to count the fact that people have extra stats on their gear… Over time the Ascended gear will make Anet have dungeons harder because as time goes on it would be trivial or less of a challenge if they didn’t… That’s why its called a gear progression, because you’ll need that gear to take part in future dungeons, and people will require you to have it, or you’ll never survive or help the group out appropriately without it… Have you ever played any other MMO outside of GW1?  (serious question) Because if you have, you know that’s how Raids work, you need better gear to get further into the Raid to get, yep you guess it, better gear…. I just hope Anet doesn’t go down that path… we’ll see though

          • http://www.facebook.com/kevin.cox.5817 Kevin Cox

            well my point is yes dungeons would increase in difficulty simply due to the (speculated) addition of new abilities and such to the mobs. 

            But my point is that new, stronger gear wouldn’t be needed because we now have the means to counter those abilities via infusions. And I played WoW for two years. In that game you needed better gear because content was getting stronger. 

            MY point is that won’t happen here, nor does it need to. We now have infusions to counter new abilities and conditions that could potentially be added in the future. The monsters aren’t getting stronger, they are becoming more interesting. 

            The progression comes from the player acquiring the means to be equally as interesting. And to do that we just pop in an infusion or two. 

            Stronger gear won’t be needed after this. 

            See what i’m saying? 

          • Dubhridir

            yea caught that up there… that reply was to spammerbam however  :)  I too played WoW, but I played for 6 years ;) and was an avid Raider… hehe, that’s why I know what this can look like… And hope you’re right….

          • Spammerbam

            Touché to both of you.

            “Have you ever played any other MMO outside of GW1?”
            ^ Yes, countless others. Otherwise I wouldn’t be here comparing and giving examples.

            But back to the subject. Does the new tier of gears counts towards some sort of gear treadmill? In a way, yes, because there IS a stat increase.

            But is the new tier of gears game-changing to older contents? Barely. What really matters is if Anet will keep doing this in the future.

            “We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect
            everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” – Chris Whiteside

            ^ I hope this holds true. If these Ascension gears (armors & weapons included in future updates) are the end of it, then cheers to everyone.

            But what I’m saying in my earlier post replying to Robert Caliolo is how players are outraged about it. MMO players trip out about almost everything, because they have such unrealistically high expectations that they would throw a tantrum when these expectations aren’t met.

            You know what the simple solution is? Uninstall game.
            Go play another one.
            Done.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kevin.cox.5817 Kevin Cox

          While I don’t doubt that “agony” will be introduced in future content, I do doubt that they will continue to add stronger gear. Now that they’ve achieved this self-described bridge between exotic and legendary, a player can further achieve progression via customizing their armor via these infusions (which Anet said they will add more types of).

          New abilities can now be added and new infusions can be added to counter those abilities in future patches. There’s flexibility here moreso than with standard gear/upgrades. Currently however, there’s nothing forcing you to do this dungeon, especially since the armor and infusions are going to be introduced in the rest of the game (sans SPvP) so in that respect all you need is a little bit of patience. Having said that the very nature of the game itself allows for you to do what you want at your own pace without worry of “falling behind” some imaginary line (that more often than not is created by the player). The gear has better stats, yes but they’re not so astronomically high that it’s going to make a noticeable difference accept to the player playing (cuz obviously he/she is going to be paying attention to their dmg output). . And about false information…….that’s generally generated by people who jump to conclusions way too quickly and because of that, speculation quickly becomes fact when it’s actually not so cool it. 

          • Dubhridir

            hmm can’t copy and paste that first 1/4 of what you said to reply to it…

            But, what you’re saying there does make sense. I (and everyone else who is worried) sincerely hope you’re right.. Believe me I love what they’ve done to this game, I just hope they don’t ruin it.. What the main point is, is that they’ve said they’re going to add more powerful gear over time, I just hope it doesn’t turn into a gear progression, because that’s what it’s sounding like… Only time will tell

  • http://www.facebook.com/kevin.cox.5817 Kevin Cox

    Gear treadmill or no, the anger players feel right now is generated by the self induced pressure to “keep up.”

    Thing is, there’s nothing in this game to get in front of. As long as you meet the level requirement you can do whatever you want. 
    As far as gear requirements go, this dungeon is the only exception and it, like everything else, is optional and due to the fact that this gear will be introduced into PvE and WvW, is also not necessary. 

    I don’t care if it’s a 2pt increase, a 5pt increase or a 10% bonus or whatever number you can come up with. 

    It WILL NOT be noticeable and skill will still win the fight. 

    If you’re getting pressured by your team or your guild to get the gear NOW rather than WHENEVER and you don’t like it, then i suggest you find players who enjoy playing this game rather than working at it because like I said, it’s all self induced anxiety. 

    This game allows us to play at our own pace and even with somewhat stronger gear now being introduced we can still do that. 

    The pressure, the need, the desire, the anxiety…….it’s all self induced and if you really sit back, chill and play you can still meet those desires and needs and enjoy yourself. 

    THAT is a lesson every MMO player needs to learn. 

    • Dubhridir

      Skill wins a fight… but without that Agony infusion you cannot go that far into that dungeon as the difficulty keeps increasing…. you need to understand that, it seems you’re missing that point….  And the more difficult it gets, SKILL will only get you so far before you can’t survive the encounters without that Agony infusion and those extra skill points….

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      But if in WvW, you lose a 1v1 fight to someone with better gear, you can claim all day you had the same or better skill and it was the gear that made the difference. 

      • Spammerbam

         WvW was never designed to be balanced, it’s just like an open world PvP in WoW and a way to show off your progession in the game. If you’re going to compare skills and gears, do that in sPvP.

        • Diequex

          Doesn’t matter man. If you want to have an even footing in WvW you’re going to need to obtain the accessories and potential Ascended Armor in the future, along with whatever other gear they decide to add in the future. People WvW (such as myself) don’t like the idea of being shoehorned into content we do not enjoy in order to have an even footing in a different setting. 

          A lot of people who play the game for WvW will genuinely be upset and potentially leave the game despite “WvW never being designed to be balanced.”

          • http://www.facebook.com/kevin.cox.5817 Kevin Cox

            Well the gear and accessories are going to be implemented into PvE and WvW and since you like WvW you’re not being shoehorned into anything you don’t like. 

            Plus, Traits and the differences among WvW players concerning who has access to all their lines and who doesn’t when they enter should render any discussion about who has better gear moot. 
            If you were to say to me that I won a 1v1 because of my back or ring slot, then I (as a level 26 maybe) can just as easily say that you won (if the situation were to be reversed) because you, as an 80, have access to all your trait lines and the subsequent buffs. 

            As it stands right now, the gear is barely going to make a noticeable dent, I can almost guarantee it. However, I will go on to say that the increase in stats over exotics is pointless for no other reason than it literally just is……pointless. lol 

          • Spammerbam

            “..along with whatever other gear they decide to add in the future.”

            Yes, and this is where the problem lies: whether Anet will continue to add higher tier gears in the game. That screams out NO for almost everyone. But if the Ascended Armor is the last of it, would you still be okay with it?

            And relating to WvW, what you’re saying is that the 5 point increase will definitely make a difference.

            Sorry, but I still really find that hard to believe.

            I know you, including everyone, worked hard to get all of your exotics, not to mention addition ones that you have to craft/buy for different builds of your profession. So why should Ascended gears be any different, since you can obtain them in different ways?

  • DoctorOverlord

    It’s good to hear there will be other ways to get Ascended items.    I am worried about the power creep from the better stat gear, but I’m still willing to see how ArenaNet actually implements this whole thing. 

  • Logun 24×7

    I’m pist off more about the fact that this feels like a
    shift in their paradigm they preached about over the last 4 years.

    Anyone that followed this game through development knows
    Arena Net has hammered home the point that the game itself was to be the
    endgame. As it is now we are not pigeonholed into dungeons to be all we can be.
    Top end gear can be obtained by just playing the game, you can get to it
    through crafting or Karma or world events or dungeons. Whatever path you want
    to take the choice is yours!

    They also went out of their way to remove systems that got
    in the way of players just spontaneously working together. They trashed the
    trinity and so all of us could fill any role. They added mechanics to make sure
    players didn’t have to fight over harvesting nodes or worry about kill
    stealing.

    For all intense proposes the second you log-in your in a
    group with every player in the zone.

    So I’m let down about this whole endgame more because it
    just feels wrong when you line it up against the core ideologies the game was
    built around.

    So Arena Net has lost some of my trust and I’m concerned
    that this is just the beginning.

    I’d really like to hear a deeper explanation of how this
    fits with the core ideologies we’ve been sold over the last 4 years, I’d just
    like to be kissed first before I get slipped the roofie.

    I flip this back at you Richie, I just reviewed your Tyria
    Talk episode 10 on endgame so you and I pretty much had the same understanding
    post launch on endgame.

    So, Is Arena Net staying on target with the marketing message
    they delivered over the last 4 years with this update? Dose it fit with their described
    ideologies for the game?

    • http://twitter.com/RichieProcopio Richie Procopio

      We don’t know enough at this point for me to answer your question.  It really depends on what is happening here.  If this is an extra layer of gear that they want in the game and then stop, then it’s the same philosophy but we’re just caught in a weird transition phase.  If they keep coming out with better stat gear tiers then it certainly feels like a switch in their plans.  

      That said, they can and should switch their philosophy if its going to help their business and keep the game health.  I’ll have a new Tyria Talk video out soon to give my more complete thoughts on this.  And we discussed this at length on GuildCast last night.

      • http://twitter.com/JazzEneLya Jazzy Celesica

        I haven’t seen the guildcast link last night. I’m currently looking for it here.

        • http://twitter.com/RichieProcopio Richie Procopio

          It’s up on the site now.

  • http://twitter.com/jar_media Jr Ybiernas

    Everyone here have valid points, yet, I can’t see most of you guys (who oppose this idea) as nothing else but whiners who will never be satisfied w/ whatever which way Arenanet is taking this game. I personally think the game is just lacking that special something and to cater to such a demanding crowd must be stressful. So either play it or don’t play it. Geez.

    • Eto_Zamamai

      Well the concepts betrays their initial statements and the whole concept to GW… Many people (myself included) purchased the game for the lack of an unquenchable gear treadmill. That being said the game is still great and I will not complain too bitterly, I think the bulk of the current player base will get over it and still play the patch, however it certainly won’t win any new players to their cause…

    • Logun 24×7

      Play or don’t Play …yup that’s what it comes down to in
      the end. I just hope Arena Net is getting in bed with the right crowd. Does
      anyone think this half assed gear progression is really going to keep the WoW
      kiddies happy for long?

      I hope it’s worth the alienation to them that it’s creating
      with the players that were happy with the game and a few weeks from now the
      players thrilled by this news aren’t off playing pandas anyways.

      The rabbit hole there going down right now could get very
      deep very fast trying to pander to that crowd.

    • http://www.facebook.com/lukas.debeer.5 Lukas De Beer

      Well here is the thing for me if you look at the start when there was talk about gear it was said that gear would be aquired through different means and that up to now was the case. if you look at stats for a sec all the gear crafted, karma and dungeon gear had the same stats with different looks. Now my point if it was possible to get this new accended gear in the same fashion id doubt that there would be half as many complaints but no you can only get it one way. Another thing that i tried my hardest to get away from in other games is these idiots in there fancy gear standing around in cities thinking they are better than everyone else. This is exactly whats going to happen here. Also it was said that these new dungeons could be done by different level caracters but do you really think these Elitist idiots going to allow any lower level person in their groups… I think not.It just breeds this holier than thou attitude.

       Just my 2 cents worth

  • http://www.facebook.com/GLopez12 German Lopez

    The amount of self-contraditions in that post are outrageous. He basically says, “We want to add a tier between exotic and legendary, even though legendary doesn’t have increased stats. We don’t want to add a gear treadmill, but here is how we’re adding one anyway. We don’t want to screw over WvW and event players, but we’re going to make this gear dungeon-only for one patch.” I’m not even being harsh or hyperbolic; those are legitimate paraphrases of his comments.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1211986384 Nathan Gould

      I couldn’t help commenting. It’s mean to be inbetween legendaries and exotics in the amount of time invested. They used the term “legendary wall” because people who sneezed and got their exotics felt that they had nothing new to do aside from get a legendary – which is a HUGE time investment. Exotics are really easy to get, and legendaries are exponentially harder, so they wanted to make a new tier that bridged that gap. I don’t suppose that there are any plans to introduce any other tiers between Ascended and Legendaries or Exotics and Ascended so you can just imagine that Ascended gear was there from the start.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

      I think that the point of the GW games was that there was a grind and that there was a treadmill, but that Anet made them voluntary. You don’t need the e-peen gear in order to play the games and be successful, but they are there as the shiny carrot on the stick for those players who do enjoy timesinks like that. My issue has always been not that they are in the games, but (with GW2 in particular) that Anet and media claim that they wouldn’t be in the game and that’s why it’s a “superior” method of playing over the popular traditional way, when in fact all they did was change the necessity of doing it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1211986384 Nathan Gould

    There’s no treadmill if the new tiers of gear stops here. They felt as though the drastic difference between how long it takes to get a legendary and how long it takes to get an exotic  was too large and inserted a middle ground to give people too daunted by legendaries something to strive for instead. It’s a fix to a problem, not a change in design philosophy nor a regular occurrence that we should expect ever few content patches (SUPER ASCENDED GEER). In fact, to minimize the transition they chose to introduce new pieces of Ascended gear gradually with new content so that at least you have the novelty of the new content patch to keep you engaged rather than just “grinding” for the new gear (though I think people who claim to know the meaning of this word never played Maplestory).

  • HartsHope

    rofl at the dramaqueen GW2 whining bitches. seriously. i have a MA in Composition and thats all i can come up with to describe these people. no other way to say it; it deserves to be that crude.

    a treadmill? in a game where the hardest content is so faceroll easy that you can speed farm an entire set in a day or two? here is a box of tissues. seriously. in other games – one notable one that i wont mention because these poor bastards are already preparing nooses for themselves with their mouse cords and i dont want to tip them over the edge – gear takes months to grind. not to mention how little gear affects the outcome of PVE or PVP… but hey, whiners gonna whine.

    you’d think players would be happy there is something new to do, considering that all people do now is farm the same dungeons over and over. you’d think they’d be happy there is another offering of free content. but no. of course not. how pathetically invested these people must be… how rigidly attached to one future. and ya i just lost interest in this comment and this ridiculous melodrama but im gonna press the post button anyways

    • http://www.facebook.com/amans.patriae.1 Amans Patriae

       You obviously don’t understand the issue at hand. It has nothing to do with how hard or easy it is to get the next tier of gear. The fact revolves around the stated design philosophy of a-net where they specifically differentiated GW2 from other MMO’s. One key difference was that there would not be a gear grind treadmill in GW2 and it would remain as GW1. In GW1 there was no change to the power level of gear over the years…and people played it for years. That’s the issue. It’s a legitimate gripe for those who relied on a-nets promise. BTW, I hate whiners about whiners; it’s a logical contradiction I find unnecessary..

  • Martin Lomas

    Give me treadmills, dailies, raids and progression! I want to stand out from the casuals!
     

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1432476955 Alexander Mortensen

      Then go get some legendarys

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Angelica-Sarvo/100000523071070 Angelica Sarvo

    I don’t really mind the new tier, I just hope they look cool. ^.^ The only thing I wonder about is what am I going to do with my exotics on my main? I don’t really want to break it down, it’d be nice if they made it account bound so that I can give it to one of my alts, lol.

  • http://twitter.com/UnholyFandango Cut

    Really shocked Anet took this path, still playing but have lost a lot of respect for Anet..

    Currently I have 5 lvl 80 alts all geared in exotics and in the skins I felt happy with, I probably spent a fair amount of gold and gems on them or time crafting with the long term goal of someday getting a Legendary item on my favorite class. I’m not really a harcore player or casual…somewhere inbetween.

    I’ve played many mmo’s and spent quite a few hours in GW1 from its humble beginning to today.

    Thats why its so hard to swallow Anet’s new philosophy going forward. It’s such a massive U turn from what they had previously stated whilst developing. Not just in design but in attitude.

    I feel its a shame to make lvl80 exotic gear basically redundant without someway to upgrade it.

    I think thats what irked me the most about this..I wouldn’t mind a hard grind to upgrade what I have and infuse every item on every alt… like I said I was in for the long haul.

    Whats the difference between upgrading and just slotting in a new BiS item?

    The difference is in GW2 Anet have been lazy and uncharacteristically greedy its nothing about progression.

    They know like most do the new Ascended armor set and infusions are not about bridging any gap, its about getting the cash shop wheels turning.

    This latest development is a huge contridication in Anets Ethos and thats disappointing.

       .

     

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=684860058 Min Hsin Waitforit Shiek

    imo i dont see anything wrong…. i dont mind if they add new tiers of gear as long s it’s spaced out over a long period of time….. 7 months of using 1 set of exotics can get abit old :) they havent added the entire ascended set yet anyways… only parts of it….. they will prolly release the rest of the ascended gear over the next couple content updates….and that’s a long time…. so dont get ur panties in a bunch. besides…. adding the new set wouldnt make the game unfair to ppl who dont like farming dungeons…. no open world pvp in the pve world for an ascended advantage…. the stat bonus on ascended gear is just acouple stats…. doesnt make a diff in dungeon farming…. neither does it in wvw….. so calm down…. spvp is totaly seperate…. no prob their either…

  • Jeremy Jackson

    There’s no reason to believe him. They’ve already broken their word. They’ll do it again, wait and see.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DH5IZ7ZTGUGRMLEQOGJBSHW6LE Jess

    All of these games are a grind. Whether they call it that or not doesn’t matter. When you have a game that you need to level up, and there is gear that is progressively better, it is going to turn into a grind. And even if you don’t have to go through dungeons 50 times to get the best gear, which you do have to in Guild Wars 2, then they are going to charge an obscene amount of karma points or gold, and guess what, you have to grind to get enough of either. Sorry, there will never be a game that doesn’t require you to grind in this genre, it’s what these games are based on.