ArenaNet Promises The End Of Guild Wars 2 Culling


Written by: (@winterinformal) | March 14, 2013 8:43 am

ArenaNet Promises The End Of Guild Wars 2 Culling
35 Comments

Is the Guild Wars 2 culling problem in World vs. World about to be solved?

That’s the claim made by ArenaNet developer Habib Loew in the most recent GW2 blog post, fittingly titled “The End of Culling.” Loew reminds everyone that culling — meaning the client not reporting nearby characters — will be removed in the March patch.

But the reason culling existed in the first place was to reduce bandwidth and help the game run more smoothly. So if all those characters are now going to be reported to the client, how will ArenaNet prevent the game from running like molasses?

Players will have the option of three settings for determining whether characters render in large fights. They are, as Loew describes:

  • High resolution models - These are the high-res character models that you’re all already familiar with.
  • Lower resolution fallback models - These are the models that we’ve been using as placeholders in WvW while the hi-res models load. They differ depending on race and armor class, though human, sylvari, and norn share the same model.
  • Nameplates only - We don’t render the model at all and instead only show the nameplate for that character.

Players can set how many nearby characters render with a model and how many with a nameplate and the quality of those models.

TL;DR: You likely won’t see every character in a big fight, rendered in stunningly beautiful graphic detail, but you’ll at least have some indicator — even if it’s just a nameplate — that they’re there, so you can select them to attack… or just run away, if you’re a coward.

On the one hand, this implementation seems to fix the issue, at least in terms of functionality. But it’s also a little sad that the dev team has to sacrifice some of the beauty and grace of their artistic design to make it work.

What do you think? Does this solution for culling satisfy you?


  • http://twitter.com/Cpt_Badger Cpt.Badger

    I don’t bother with WvW. This part of GW2 simply does not exist for me, because playing at 10-15 frames per second is just NOT fun.

    • St_Draco

      Thank you for sharing. So does this mean you would bother with WvW if you got a better frame rate? Do you get a better frame rate in the large meta events, like the dragons and temple priests? Is this a request for a particle slider? Passive aggressive comments are sometimes so difficult to understand.

  • Samantha

    This is good! I’d rather see nameplates and lag a little than die because I just ran into an invisible zerg.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P4HMCB2HFGNQRRKG5SO33L5LCQ Age Of Majority

      I agree!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HDHRO7GCCGE25VLFNQUEPAVLBM Josh

    This doesn’t change that it wasn’t very fun. Giant zergs got boring in the Rift beta. They need to make it so that people WANT to break off into smaller groups to accomplish things.

    • St_Draco

      If only it was as easily done as said. I imagine ANet would like to see this happen too, but people have a tendency to follow the path of least resistance. If you can roll with a large group at min risk for the reward, its going to happen.

      With the removing of culling, we might see people less likely to run in “zergs” since people can now see them.  There was a lot of strategic play in WvW that took advantage of culling and “stealth zergs” was on of them. Once “zergs” can be countered with equal numbers, it will likely result in more groups breaking off to break up the oppositions forces. Other things we will likely see change is “perma stealth” rogues and mesmers who took advantage of the stealth/culling interaction to get artificial stealth.

      • Meep

        This will help.  I’ve tried to pick off a straggler from a zerg only to find out he had 10 culled friends behind him.
        I doubt this will end zergs, however.  The cap on AoE targets and the ease of reviving downed players will keep it alive.  Hurting zergs will likely require making rushes on gates with no siege aside from rams more difficult.  Perhaps making it harder to pull players off walls with no line of sight (I’m looking at you, guardians!) or offering some sort of aoe mitigation for defenders would be helpful.

        • St_Draco

          There isn’t a way to end “zergs” in WvW. The nature of the gameplay is actually built around having large groups of people clashing over objectives. What this change may lead to (note this is dependent on people’s behavior) is an increase in more small group strategic play to counter “zergs” due to players actually being able to see/evaluate them. It also should make small groups more viable, since people can no longer use “stealth zergs” to surprise attack objectives.

    • http://twitter.com/Hagg3r Michael

      If you don’t like zergs I suggest avoiding any kind of RvR/WvW based game ever again. There will always be zergs. There will be some situations where small groups can thrive, but unless you run with a larger group you are probably just hurting your faction. Even in DAOC where 8v8 was VERY popular, those guys were often looked at poorly if they did not help during something like a keep siege or relic siege. It is more about your entire faction/server winning then anything else.

    • Jado Cast

      When the add new content ( we don’t know what it is yet) and Boon Hate this might break things up more. I agree with you, so *fingers crossed*

  • DoctorOverlord

    I’ve always enjoyed WvW in GW2 when I’ve done it. ArenaNet is providing much of what Warhammer Online promised but never delivered. I just wish there was a better progression in it but it sounds like that is being addressed soon as well.

    I hope the culling solution works.  I like how one can adjust the amount of detail you want, it’s a good idea to put that kind of control into the player hands.   

    I’m interested in seeing how this changes the battles in WvW.   At the very least, there should be less of those tactical pauses when going across a map to make sure there isn’t a large zerg being culled.

  • http://twitter.com/LusitanGaming Lusitan Gaming

    so this change is only for W3 but not applies to PvE, this is just stupid.

    at least they took a nice idea TERA had to make Nexus manageable and that is, that you just see nameplates and mobs ^^

    • St_Draco

      Colin made a post on the official forums regarding culling for PvE: “The initial release of this system will be for WvW only. There are additional complications we need to solve with PvE due to the number and variety of creatures on screen that WvW doesn’t need to account for. Later this year, we’ll be expanding as much of the changes to the PvE open world as we can as well.”

    • http://twitter.com/Hagg3r Michael

      Seriously don’t use W3 as the term for WvW. It makes 0 sense! That is lamer then WuvWuvWuv!

  • http://www.facebook.com/miljan.stanojevic.503 Miljan Stanojevic

    am stariting to dislike the game, at start was few things here and there that I didnt like…now we do have  a HUGE number of this “small” problems….and few big ones. So game was rly breath of fresh air for me, and I could not wait to log in…now, I find my self loging into LoL with ….”a wth GW2 can wait” 

    • St_Draco

      Good news! (see above) ANet is fixing one of the “big problems”. That means you can start to like the game again.

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    Good to hear Arenanet is still working on this. But the statement is not accurate. Culling is the removal of graphical elements from the displayed image.  While culling is a perfectly acceptable technique, a well designed system would have little impact to the gamer. 

    Low-rez models and nameplates is still excessive culling, but an understandable first attempt at fixing the problem. So, the statement “End of Culling” is just a lie. Attempting to redefine culling is just PR speak for avoiding the problem.  

    Still seems many folks are still “soft” on Arenanet.

    • St_Draco

      It seems you didn’t actually read the blog post (which Jason should have linked) where Habib stats “For the sake of clarity, I want to make a distinction between our usage of the term “culling” in this post (meaning to limit the amount of data the server reports to the client) and other uses of the word “culling” related to graphics (discarding backward facing triangles in models, triangles or whole models that are occluded, etc.).  Our changes are to the client/server culling and have no bearing on basic graphics operations in the GW2 client.”

      • Nick Cattane

        Don’t waste your breathe – Dularr is a constant negative poster and biased WoW player.

        • St_Draco

          Oh I don’t post for him, I post for others.

          • Nick Cattane

            Fair enough ;)

  • http://twitter.com/Hagg3r Michael

    Still SLIGHTLY skeptical if this is actually going to pan out. It is hard to believe that something some people thought impossible is actually going to be fixed. I am pretty optimistic though and am sure it will work out just fine. I am pretty excited about this change! If you can’t accept that your computer might not be able to show all the models at high res you are just being naive. There is no MMO in history…hell, game in history, that let you see more then 20-30 people on screen fully rendered in all the quality of the rest of the game. Even in DAOC, one of the biggest games for this kind of thing, the models did not always render until they got close and looked like blobs of crap from further away. Not to mention that unless you had a godly PC at the time, you had to disable particle effects for everyone but you or your group. 

    • Nick Cattane

      Yea, ArenaNet from the beggining said until the end of the year their goal was to completely eliminate culling in all shapes and form, but this is basically the first huge step in addressing that in wvw.

  • Sharuko

    Game was released way too early, it was not ready of launch.  It is pretty much in alpha stage right now and is a “work in progress”.  It seems like every update they do it is “fixing this” “improving that” “updating this”.  All of this should have been done before launch.

    If this was any other fanbase or MMO the developers would have been toast.  But the few remaining GW2 players are ok with mediocrity.  The rest quit without all the QQ.

    MMOs get one chance, and they blew it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jonathan.hornsby.7 Jonathan Hornsby

      A subscription based game going free-to-play is a bandaid fix for not making any money because no one is playing. How many people are still playing Tera? Is it even a million? Or has it gone the way of SWTOR?

      • Sharuko

        Fun fact, Tera has more players than GW2. Yes, a niche game has more players than a “mass market” super casual game. Frogster announced 2 days ago it had 1 million players, just in EU alone. Who would have thought?

        • http://www.facebook.com/jonathan.hornsby.7 Jonathan Hornsby

          That’s nice. I’m happy for them. Guild Wars 2 has three million. Also slanderous lies don’t count as facts, regardless of how dedicated your inept trolling.

          • Sharuko

            I notice you ignored the part where Tera the niche MMO has 1 million players in EU alone. Probably 3+ million worldwide.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jonathan.hornsby.7 Jonathan Hornsby

            And I notice you changed your comment to say “just in the EU alone” after I called you out on the numbers being pretty low. And in case you haven’t noticed GW2 is also a niche MMO, unlike Tera that actively marketed itself to mainstream MMO players.

          • http://twitter.com/SoMuchMass SoMuchMass

            Niche? Really? Someone go and correct the Arenanet CEO:

            “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO… One MMO has been on the top of the heap for seven years now, but there’s been a progression in the industry for other games being able to attract more and more players. And we’re set to climb to the top.”

          • http://www.facebook.com/jonathan.hornsby.7 Jonathan Hornsby

            I have a better quote for you.

            “If you hate MMOs, then you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

    • St_Draco

      Looks like someone needs a hug!

    • Jado Cast

      Yay for down votes. :) Trolls must be Sad!

  • KillingJoke

    Damn!! and there was me thinking that i could go in and take out the botters!! wrong culling term..doh!!

  • Jado Cast

    Well, I’m happy they are putting controls in the hands of gamer’s based on their machine’s capabilities, but I’m more worried about the skill lag that’s been bad since the last patch. I hope that’s fixed too.

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