Guild Wars 2 Exploiters Banned From ArenaNet

Written by: (@richieprocopio) | January 3, 2013 11:56 am

86 Comments

A new exploit has been discovered in Guild Wars 2 and ArenaNet is ringing in the new year by issuing bans to the worst offenders.  Jewelry made from Wintersday snowflakes was being crafted and then salvaged for globs of ectoplasm and other materials.  The snowflake jewel, however, was returned around 80% of the time when salvaged, creating an excessively lucrative loop.  The exploit has since been closed and a round of permanent bans has been delivered.

The official forums (and other sites like Reddit) have been set ablaze with all sorts of opinions on the issue.  Some blame ArenaNet for not catching the potential exploit themselves.  Others state there shouldn’t be bans without warnings and that creating the snowflake jewelry and salvaging it is very similar to legitimate ways to make money.  I believe ArenaNet has already set the precedent in their earlier dealings with exploits that they will not hesitate to smack people with permanent bans if they behave against the terms of service and jeopardize the in-game economy.  If it seems too good to be true, it’s an exploit.

ArenaNet’s Gaile Gray is quick to point out that they have only targeted the worthy offenders stating, “I’ve seen the numbers, and the damage to the economy could have been substantial, if the exploit wasn’t closed down and if these people were allowed to use their ill-gotten gains. People whose accounts were terminated were the worst offenders. I’m talking a lot of ill gotten gains, and a significant risk to the economy.”

Where do you stand on this debate?  Should there be warnings before bans?  Do you trust ArenaNet’s statistics and support their bans on the abusers?  Chime in and let us know what you think in the comments section below.

 

Guild Wars 2 Exploiters Banned From ArenaNet

  • http://twitter.com/AesirValkyr Aesir Valkyr

    They warned everyone after the last temp ban that they will not tolerate it anymore.  Like you said, for the people who stumbled on it and used common sense to not exploit, no worries.  For those who obviously knew they were exploiting, they deserve it.  I just hope those banned didn’t have time to distribute their ill-gotten gains before their accounts got locked up.

    • ConceptTech

      An answer to all the above really. JUST ONE BIG DICTAORSHIP! Unfair and unjust.This will cast a Dark Shadow over ArenaNet from now on, and people will be afraid to even breath in case of a ban…Equilibrium springs to mind.
      End of Line………………..

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lord-Styx/1800631029 Lord Styx

    I am so happy ban exploiters.   Have some integrity players. Besides this isn’t new for ArenaNet. Wish other game makers would be like them.

  • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

    What bothers me is the initial time line of events that happened with this. It further proves that ArenaNet is being reactive and not proactive in their approach to dealing with these situations.

    1. “Exploit” found and people asked on the official forums if this is indeed an “exploit” or working as intended.
    2. Multiple days went by without a response from anyone at ArenaNet regarding the “exploit”. During this time, 3 hot fixes were put in place, not one of which was fixing the “exploit”.
    3. So many forum threads asking, no word from ArenaNet, things go crazy and people start going to town salvaging.
    4. ArenaNet finally hot fixes the exploit.
    5. AFTER the hot fix, ArenaNet finally posts on the forums their explanation as to why this is an exploit.
    6. 2 weeks later… account bans handed out.

    My issue is they waited until AFTER it was hot fixed to say this was indeed an exploit. Then waiting 2 weeks to hand out the bans right at the end of the holiday event. (Speculation: Probably waiting to see if they could milk any more real money from them before the end of the event, then banning them)

    While I do enjoy this game, I am not enjoying how they handle situations like this at all. I’m on the side of the fence that ArenaNet needs to be more proactive in their approach and realize that it was their mistake to begin with and not so severely punish those who used a released game mechanic to earn gold.

    Having played MMORPG’s since UO, I’ve seen major game exploits that have affected the economy before. In the end, the economy balances itself out after the initial rush. This is just a purely reactive approach (like everything else we’ve seen from ArenaNet regarding GW2 thus far), and that is what scares me the most.

  • Clifford Dutka

    Usually when someone gets banned from a game I always say there is a way they couldn’t accidently could have stumbled across the issue and not suspect it was a bug. This however; I really think people could assume they are just riding a lucky streak, even on 100-500 I am sure there are people that were abusing it; however I could easily see people who didn’t realize doing in that many times. 

    I will be honest I was slightly interested in GW2; however there quick reaction to permaban due to exploits has made me shy away as I do not want the frustration of an appeal if I accidently get caught in the cross fire (never been suspended or banned from any MMO)

  • http://twitter.com/olov244 Jason D Williams

    It’s BS imo, someone had to code that salvage drop rate, they should have known it was too high, arenanet’s error 100%. Fix the salvage drop rate and move on would be the correct response. I see this no different than what I used to do in wow, de mats would be worth more than the greens in AH, buy everything under a certain price, sell the dust/essences for profit, rinse/repeat. Also the market would self correct, supply and demand works in game just as well if not better than irl. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/oneniisama Bear Powell

    Least they were fast on this. Only took them two weeks this time to fix it…

    • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

      2 weeks to issue the bans; that coincidentally corresponds to the end of the event. The actual “hot fix” to temporarily disable the recipe took them a few days; during which they never once responded if it was an actual exploit or not until after the hot fix was in.

  • http://www.MasterRenny.com/ Thomas Renshaw

    And i quote grumpy cat when i say “good”.

    ArenaNet are going to be able to see the figures far far better then anyone on reddit trying to do the maths. And imo choose the action. 

    However how many is “a few” twice? five times? ten times?….IF i did it twice i wouldnt really see it as an exploit and i think youd have to do it more then 5 or even 10 times before i started to even think about it as a exploit. 

  • Tom E. Waters

    Bad people will always try to make what they do sound like it isn’t bad. No matter what argument these immoral people come up with the end result is that they knew they were wrong and they deserve the punishment.

    These are the same kind of people who will try to get away with a DUI by explaining that the alcohol is sold in the stores and the police know that to get the alcohol they have to drive to the store so, it should be okay to drink it in the car on the way home. If they didn’t want people to drink and drive then they shouldn’t sale alcohol in the stores… Yeah, those of us with brains know that this kind of argument is ridiculous but, that’s how a criminal mind works.

    Perma-bans for exploiters. I love ArenaNet.

    • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

      You do know there are screenshots around of ArenaNet employees doing this exploit themselves right? Please be more blind.

      • Tom E. Waters

         You do know that two wrongs don’t make a right, right? Please, be more stupid.

        • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

          Yes, by your logic, they should ban their employees as well. I never said it was “right”, so thank you for assuming that.

          You seem to enjoy companies and people who are reactive and not proactive. There were much better ways to deal with those who exploited, but your “brains” probably can’t comprehend that fact due to being reactive.

          • Tom E. Waters

             Yes, if employees were in fact exploiting then they need dealt with in the same manner as the players. Rules are rules.

            You are arguing that the offenders should not be reprimanded so, you are in fact arguing that the players are right and the company is wrong in enforcing it’s rules. You make yourself sound like you are one of the ones banned for exploiting.

             Everything comes down to a right and wrong. Everything. Like it or not you can’t dictate what is right/wrong or good/evil. It just is. So, no matter how much you argue your point, if you argue that wrong is right then you lose by default.

            proactive/reactive? Are you seriously trying to bait me? That’s cute.

          • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

            No, I wasn’t banned. Also, right and wrong are purely matters of perception. Nor am I saying either side is fully right or fully wrong. 

            There are better ways of dealing with people who “exploited” this issue other than perma ban. 

            By ArenaNets logic, anyone who takes their T5 materials, crafts rares, then salvages them for ectos is an “exploiter”. I mean, you’re essentially getting more valuable materials than what you put in.

            And no, I’m not “baiting” you, merely stating an observation based on how you’ve responded. So far everything has been reactive and not a single push towards proactive. 

          • theunwarshed

             ”right and wrong” are nor “purely matters of perception” in this case.  they have a codified set of rules/laws if you will and these people violated them.  they have a prescribed penalty for violating said rules.  the banned either violated the rules or they didn’t, there is no perception. 

            what you’re talking about is ethics/morality.  yes, there are wrongs done that are considered “moral crimes” and then there are wrongs that are done that are violations of a code/rule.  you can debate whether or not these people are immoral/moral, but there is no debate over their violation of the rules.

          • Ravenstorm

            There’s only right or wrong? You must be a superhero.
            Or a cop. I agree on the part of the use of alcohol. But that’s not the topic of this post.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670665157 Steven Barker

    Sucks to be the exploiters. Enjoy your ban exploiter noobs, while I continue to play the game.

  • http://twitter.com/N7allday Connor

    There is seriously a valid argument to both sides. ArenaNet not taking action immediately when it was posted on forums, and doing nothing to close the exploit is shame on them. The players did not know, nor were they informed that this was a clear exploit. 

    The other side, I know if I found out this crafting and salvage method it would set off red flags for me. Guild wars doesn’t possess anything like the exploit in the game to the point where if I noticed it I would be wary. The people who did it 100s of times deserved to get banned, and ArenaNet is at fault for not clearly communicating the exploit and including a fix in a patch. 
    My .02

  • http://twitter.com/Rezkingx Rezkingx

    This is yet another reason it makes me happy im not playing this game anymore

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670665157 Steven Barker

      What, that the game developers actually care about the quality of the economy and are quick to react to stuff like this?

      yeah, that’s so freaking terrible is that,

      • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

        You call 4 days of people asking constantly on the forums without a response a “quick” response? Oh boy…

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670665157 Steven Barker

          4 days, compared to some devs taking weeks.
          Yes, quick.

          • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

            That is not “quick” in regards to answering a question. I don’t know how it is now, but when it was released, things like this would get a response within an hour from Trion. Sorry, 4 days is NOT quick.

          • http://www.facebook.com/marco.antelope Marco Antelope

            4 days is an eternity. Compared to what other devs, come f2p game from backalley publisher? 

            This 2013, AAA Publishers have Community Manager, Social Media Managers…and so on just to deal with this type of issue. Keep on telling yourself that taking four days to respond is a quick response if it makes you feel better, but in the real world where the rest of us live it’s not.

  • http://twitter.com/cecilandblues Anthony Botz

    It’s interesting to see people say that someone could have assumed they were on a lucky streak producing 100-500 items with the same mats. If you don’t realize that you are exploiting in that sort of a situation then you are not so bright. If you did it 5, 10, 20 times. Meh…I bet you no action was even taken against your account. hundreds or thousands of times, then out you go. You aren’t going to be acidentally banned, you really have to work at it. But Arenanet will ban, they are not blizzard, they have no subscriber numbers to answer to. Play the game and respect your felow players.

    • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

      People will get accidentally banned. ArenaNet has already done this before and even admitted to doing it.

  • http://twitter.com/Latinkuro Latinkuro

    No there isn’t !
    come on be  serious, you found 1 recipe that is clearly malfunctioning, you know the TOS and you have seen people banned for similar offenses in the past, what more do you need ? written consent LOL !

    • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

      Considering their forums were immediately flooded with questions regarding this and no official answer came for days later… The community communicated to ArenaNet immediately the issue; ArenaNet in turn allowed it to happen for days before responding. Blame lies on both sides of the fence.

  • http://twitter.com/wordcipro matt cipriano

    oh well don’t let the door hit you in the ass! cya

  • Kagitaar

    I haven’t been following the situation, so I can’t comment on the speed of response, but I can comment on ANet. They are so gung-ho about getting out more content quickly, but neglect to properly test their content. I know things can slip past, but when something like this happens, you have to wonder if they had anyone test it at all. This wasn’t unusual behavior, the actions taken by players were easily testable and 100% predictable. 

  • Monstercloud

    Considering the EXACT SAME THING happened within the first couple of months of release (Cheap item salvaged/crafted  and sold for something greatly exceeding the initial value of the item), the amount of “rah-rah” for ArenaNet is kind of disgusting. This is not a new problem that arose in the game, and it hasn’t been a long time since the last time this happened, so the question is, “Who exactly is checking these items before they are available publicly?”

    Let me be clear and short – both sides share blame. People who exploited, for obvious reasons, and ArenaNet for making the same mistake in the same area of improper item value for a third time (Karma Weapons, Cooking ingredients, and now this) since release.

    To fully support ArenaNet in these types of bans, at this point since release, is deplorable.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kirzansix Mike Coulombe

    Too good to be true = bad. <—- Life lesson right there.

    • Tom E. Waters

      Very true, Mike. Sadly, there are too many people who just don’t get it.

       I tried making that very point to some people on this topic and they are just too immature to realize it. All they want to do is stamp their feet and make excuses about how it’s everyone’s fault but their own that they got caught cheating.

      • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

        Oh look, you’re still name calling. So someone has a different perspective in life than you and they’re “immature” and “stomping their feet” because they can see more than one side to the story?

        I never said, nor did I make mention towards, that it is everyone else’s fault but the person who cheated. I said, and have been saying, that fault lines on both sides of the fence.

        I did not do this exploit. I don’t even have a jewelcrafter that is high enough to make them; so if you still think I was banned after that, I can log in and message you if you’d like since you seem to like to assume things of others.

        Well Tom, it is pretty worthless trying to discuss things further with you. You clearly like to insult, see only one side, fail to assess the events that led to this banning and are purely a reactive personality. Don’t get me wrong, any gaming community is “strong” with sheep. See that? I’m using your own personality trait of name calling back to you. Feels good being called names right? It’s so productive and proactive!

        • http://twitter.com/AisarGaming Aisar

          You should keep these kinds of pointless, trollish posts to yourself.  You said you did not exploit and you were not banned, so what is your problem?  Anet is not to blame in any way, use common sense and be honest.  Your post is nonsense and if you would calm down you would realize it.

          If you exploited or got banned, it was for a reason.  Man up.

          • Tom E. Waters

             Good grief at the insanity of that troll. I wasn’t even referring to him and he decides to attack me. LOL.. This isn’t the only thread where this topic is being discussed and he takes it on himself to make it all about him. Obviously, he has some issues and guilt that he needs to deal with.

          • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

            You edited your post to look like you said it to others, but in original you said “even in this thread”. Good job!

          • http://www.facebook.com/kirzansix Mike Coulombe

            Ultimately, it all comes down to this: Who gives a f*ck?

            Seriously dude, bring something constructive to the table or gtfo. Now I have no idea what’s between you two, and I clearly don’t care. But please, PLEASE, stay on topic.

            Reminder: The topic is: If it’s too good to be true, then it’s probably illegal and/or you will be effed.

          • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

            I have been on topic except this one. My original reply was held for moderation due to having a link in it. You can see it further below.

          • http://twitter.com/squared002 Squared002

            Using common sense would mean not blindly following the sheep and realizing there are two sides of the story. Anet not to blame in any shape or form? Really? 3 days of letting this run rampant? Yep, useless trying to talk with you too.

            Man up you say, lol. Least I have the balls to play devils advocate. Tom likes to edit his posts to make himself look like he in generalizing after he points fingers.

    • Jado Cast

      nah, these same people just grow up to be brokers at a VC or Hedgefund.  Too bad there isn’t a Ban Hammer in RL for those greedy exploiters on Wall Street!  And if you say there is and they are called the SEC, your kidding yourself.  As for Anet, I wouldn’t ban them, I would take everything they had away and make some kind of buff that doesn’t go away for a year so everyone knows they exploit.  The Scarlet Letter of Tyria so they have to play in Shame.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kirzansix Mike Coulombe

        I’m sure they only banned the ones that extremely abused of the thing. At the end of the day, if you can “farm” 50+ ectos within an hour for almost free (I’m just assuming, it’s probably a lot worst than that), you’re clearly exploiting something. Sure, it’s a bug, I understand that. But at the same time, bugs ARE what you exploit in the term “exploiting” when it comes to video games.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=706513777 Luis A. Perez

    So is there an exact measure or threshold to know when you are exploiting? Or can they at least set one? In the law it’s hard to measure maturity and full brain development so we have guesses. Exact age you can vote, drive, drink, boink, etc. Why not put some specific restrictions on how fast you can obtain a resource? Otherwise I would be very afraid of doing any grinding or farming if I find a great way to obtain resources lest I get banned.

    • Johan Lohan

       Not hard at all just ask this guy: Kripparrian on Youtube, under
      GW2: World First Permaban?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=706513777 Luis A. Perez

    BTW, I guess it might be useful..but who actually reads the TOS? And at what point do you find yourself reading it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/donnie.nelson.7 Donnie Nelson

    Problem isn’t that people salvaged, problem is the people who excessively salvaged. The people that did it knew what they were doing after the 5th time they got ectos. This action messes up the ingame market thus must be treated severely. Anet warned everyone if another exploit arose that they won’t go easy on anyone. I’m an average gamer and I never find exploits and use them for my own gain. You don’t do something like this excessively unless  you are trying to benefit yourself by buying legendaries or messing up the market. Guess lazy people will just start screaming and running in circles when the going gets tough. How sick are you guys to defend these exploiters? If someone found a way to make more money, than you can in an honest living, wouldn’t that piss you off? Don’t expect everyone to give you the rules how to live online or offline. There is a difference between a gamer and a greedy gamer. Try to understand that is the problem here not the few that did it a few times. They gave you F2P game yet you freak out when they ban you for doing something stupid. I see it like the exploiters got what they deserved, a kick in the arse. As a company of an MMO, quite similar to running a country, you need to set limits on your players and ask them to be moral. When they aren’t, you have two options. Imprisonment or exiling; temp ban or perma ban. Just how the game goes.

    • Jay

      Brings up a good point… Someone exploits the system, then buys a legendary weapon that takes some people months to make. I don’t see how some people can defend these kinds of actions, but then again, look at the world we live in.

  • Joseph Legemah

    Rofl. People really surprised, can’t blame them as they’re use to bullying blizzard into giving them a pass.

    • http://www.facebook.com/rodriguezcorreamiguel Miguel Rodriguez

      ^This, i love that Anet says “Frack you, pay me”. They dont give a damn because they know the banned player abused and broke the rules of agreement and very well knew what could happen as the result of it. <3 Anet.

  • http://twitter.com/AisarGaming Aisar

    I am glad to hear they are issuing bans for this, I would be really surprised if they did not.  I think it is just common sense and obviously people are going to make excuses or blame Anet.  I’m not sure what needs to be said about this lol.  If you exploited, I hope you got banned.  Pretty simple..what is there to talk about really.  Heck, I am pretty much bored of the game at this point but that does not mean I am going to take a chance and start exploiting because hey why not I don’t care anymore right?  No..

    Funny thing is if you think about how immature some of the GW2 community is you know these exploits and dumb actions probably won’t quit.  Get them Anet, you drop that hammer!

  • EONDEPOT

    Its about time Devs take responsibility for rushing untested content out, it’s not the first recipe to be exploited and shouldve been tested. That being said ban all the exploiters!!!!!!

  • Jado Cast

    So how did they find out about the exploit?  Did some dummy put it out on Reddit or Youtube so the word got back to Anet, or did Anet have some kind of sophisticated software to catch these types of exploits to protect the economy?  I totally understand protecting the economy but this seems a little extreme.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=642846878 David Cross

    It’s simple: If you cheat and break the rules, you risk having your account suspended or banned. If you take the gamble, no crying when you lose.

    • http://twitter.com/arsenicspritzer ArsenicSpritzer

      I almost agree, but temper that with the knowledge that mistakes can be made. Taking capital punishment as an example, I can agree with it on principle because there are some crimes that demand such a response. But what about when it goes wrong and an innocent person is executed? It’s happened. We know it’s happened. What amends could possibly ever be made to make that mistake right again?

      A perma-ban is a similar type of response. It’s final and there’s no taking it back again. If you somehow become a victim of the system, you’re done. The biggest problem though with ArenaNet’s ruthlessness in dealing with troublemakers is that they are above reproach. There’s no oversight, no way to question their actions and no way to ensure that what they say they are doing, is in fact, exactly what they are doing. Personally, I just can’t rely on ArenaNet’s assurance that they only “executed” those who really deserved it because there’s no way it can be verified.

      As another poster mentioned, now people who stumble on to a new, efficient method of making gold, rightfully feel nervous. They wonder if maybe what they are doing is going to be considered an exploit and they won’t just get the wrist slap that they possibly deserve, but a pair of cement boots, compliments of ANet.

  • HappyHansel

     It’s fairly common in my GW2 guild for some players to get nervous every time someone discovers an efficient new way to make gold, and to ask in guild chat whether or not it’s safe to continue. Innocent people are a bit afraid that they will accidentally stumble onto an exploit and get banned.

    That’s a problem. Even if you agree with ArenaNet that this particular batch of bans is completely justified, the problem of that slight customer mistrust of ArenaNet remains.

    • Jay

      Let’s be real… The only people who even know about the bans are forum warriors on reddit and such. Many players don’t even know about the events until they show up on the patch screen.

      Remember, the vocal minority is still the minority.

  • Ravenstorm

    Ban them !!!! Ban them all and shoot them irl !!!!…… Really? I’ve read some pretty brainfarted comments but this… All I hear is hate here in this post about this exploit.
    When a gamer finds a fault in the game and uses it, they shouldn’t be banned outright. That’s just lazuness on the part of Anet. Strip them of their gains. Give them a ban for week(s). But permabanning ppl because Anet made another mistake is just wrong.Now I really didn’t see that exploit in GW2 but if I had I sure would’ve tried to make good from it. Other ppl did see it and did use that fault for their gain.Those who did obviously spend a crap load of time and whatever to gain that advantage, meaning they probably are longtime GW2 players. They’re probably not all really bad ppl who deserve the death penalty irl as some folks here almost suggest.Suppose you yourself did use that exploit, how many times before a permaban is issued? You don’t know. Anet does not take responsibility for their oversights and mistakes. No, they permaban straight up without any notification or warning or justified countermeasures.It is a bullshit ‘law’ to put out from Anet in which you are supposed to just know when something is an exploit. Anet makes the game, they should monitor their game and immediately stop any misuse when spotted.
    What if you where permabanned because you took clever advantage of that thing for say ten times? Or fifteen? You just don’t know when. If Anet wants to set the rules they better set  them clearly. This whole inquisition jealous hate mentality reeks of small-mindedness.

    • Thorghan

       They banned people, who are using this bug over and over again.
      There’s a big difference in players who find out about this by themself or heard about it and maybe for example did this 5 times and those who did it fifts or even hundreds of times.

      Regina Buenaobra from ArenaNet responded on this:
      “The number of accounts terminated as a result of this exploitative
      activity is actually very small—fewer than 200. However, these people
      are the very worst offenders, and engaged in this exploit to egregious
      levels—hundreds and even thousands of times. They knew exactly what they
      were doing and they knew that their activities would damage the
      economy.
      As a reminder, when we dealt with the karma exploit incident in
      September, we said that we would show some leniency for that particular
      incident. However, we made it clear that future exploits would be dealt
      with more firmly. As a result, we have terminated the accounts of the
      worst offenders in this most recent incident.”

      I personally think ArenaNet did good and it served those players right to get banned permanently. This has nothing to do with inquisition law or the other things you might see in this.
      If players on the internet  react in a harsh way, well, it’s the internet. There are always those who see things as black an white.
      Oh, your example, when do I stop, if I see this happen? Hm, maybe after the first time I would wonder, what happened. But if I can reproduce this bug two more times I would stop and would write a support ticket. But maybe that’s just me.

      • Ravenstorm

        Sadly, you’re wrong. It happened to ppl who didn’t abuse the system over and over. Take a look at yahoo-APTQ7MKCSDEIQSJJGEPCO3UTUY’s post.

        No matter what, and this I say to all the sticks up their arses ppl out there, if you hurt one person who is in fact innocent, then the system fails.
        Those ppl who in those cases got permabanned will take a long time to recover from that punishment and will not take kindly to this kind of justice.

        Or will ppl go saying you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs…

        • Thorghan

          So what was the exploit in the first place?
          I read a lot of posts and looks like they claim that they bought snowflakes and did some crafting with it and some other materials. After salvaging the product, they got ectos and cause of the market price, it was profitable, since you got more money after selling those.

          But what I’ve heard, the exploit was, that after salvaging the product, you also got the snowflakes back, which means you could use them over and over again.
          I think it’s a big grey area, but in the end I think ArenaNet is doing injustice to people, Yeah, I changed my opinion.

          They put in a system so you have a chance to get snowflakes and ectos from a finished product. But if in the end the chances are too high, they just should have changed the parameters.
          It’s because of the market prices that this was a profitable way to use salvage kits. No bug, no exploit.

          Maybe it’s a little over the top but let’s just make another example with game mechanics:
          Let’s say there’s a certain boss in the game who has a good chance of dropping a certain material. By using buff food and guild emblems, you have a very high chance of getting this material. You could sell it in the TP and make a good amount of money.
          But you could also use this materials to craft something, since in this example it would be much cheaper and effective in comparison to buy those on the TP. After crafting, you salvage the item end get ectos from it. Let’s just say, selling those with all the other stuff gives you the highest profit.
          In both examples (with or without crafting) ArenaNet could ban you, since they can claim it was unintended and since you were doing it a lot of times, you were using an exploit.
          Of course it would take more time than just crafting something with snowflakes and salvaging it again.

          It’s still a big grey area, what makes an exploit and what not. Just because the market prices for some items are high, doesn’t mean you should be afraid of trying to find ways in using the given systems and the market.

          • Ravenstorm

            Absolutely true. Aside for those ppl who ‘exploited’ that thing 500 times, it’s a sad day for many others. This doesn’t instill confidence in Anet. They just made ppl afraid to try anything outof the ordinary. Hence the refrence to smalmindedness. As you said, Anet pretty easily should’ve been able to compensate the droprate. Instead they took the easy way out, and it proved them wanting.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lord-Styx/1800631029 Lord Styx

      For me to get banned for something like this I would have to be someone else.  Self control, learn it.  If you don’t have the ability to do this then guess what your arena net is going to do it for you.  Don’t cry about the punishment when you could avoid it with just having some self control.

      This whole mindless thought that it’s Arenas net for not making it impossible for (choose any reason) is retarded.  No matter the reason said exploit is the first choose has to be made by the player to use it.  Then Arena Net is forced to do something about it.

      Besides most the posts I read are just about how it is unfair what Arena Net did.  Never once have I seen an apology for using the exploit.  There not sorry they used it there just sorry they got caught for it.

      Hell if they did anything other then flat out ban.  I would say a written apology has to be sent to Arena Net for causing them problems.  A loss of all items and gold and a fine.

      There choose first!!!  Let me say it again there choose first!!!!  One more time there choose FIRST!!!!!

      • Ravenstorm

        No offence mate, but wth does There choose first mean? You yelled it over and over but that doesn’t mean anyone understands it.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/PDVSBOGP5XLM7E3CPFAM3EATIY Justin E

        Did you mean “Their choice first”?  If not, I have no idea what you’re saying

  • RBHgamer

    When it comes to the economy i just wish the U.S. Congress would see that threats to the economy need to be controlled as much as ArenaNet realizes this.  In Heinlein’s “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” the moon inhabitants proclaim the notion of “TANSTAAFL” or “Their Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch”. It’s really just common sense.

    • http://www.facebook.com/rodriguezcorreamiguel Miguel Rodriguez

      ^THIS

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1653322492 Kevin J. Redmond

      Nice Heinlein reference, but I’m pretty sure the U.S. economy is more complicated than the GW2 economy.  It’s not quite as easy as you make it out…

      • RBHgamer

        Well fortunately the exploiters in GW2 don’t have lobbyists buying support from ArenaNet devs. That’s gotta make it simpler.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1653322492 Kevin J. Redmond

          I meant it’s not as easy to fix the U.S. economy.  :P

  • http://www.facebook.com/rodriguezcorreamiguel Miguel Rodriguez

    Its like Richard said, thars going to be ALOT of comparison fallacies and all other sorts of fallacies trying show why the perma bans where wrong. But clearly as Anet has stated INTENTIONAL EXPLOITING may result in bans, its well within thar rights, and what you agreed to when you signed in to play that day you decided to abuse something that was not intentional.

  • http://www.facebook.com/djlanders020 Dave Landers

    This response does seem a bit extreme… However, the more I think about it, the more I can understand why ANet responded this way.
     
    Folks who are TRULY exploitative tend not to be one-time offenders. Somebody who uses an exploit (even if it’s ArenaNet’s own fault) will generally use every opportunity to amass huge stockpiles of gold. Therefore, a short-term ban will not solve the problem. A permanent ban is the only real solution (besides, ya know, making sure the exploits aren’t there in the first place……).

  • Jay

    At least it shows ANet cares about the economy and the experience of other players… I do think they need to get some more/better testers in there though. The amount of bugs found in the events, especially the Karka event, are a bit alarming. If it’s a one-time event, it really needs to be polished… I rather them just polish the main game than keep adding content/events personally.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/APTQ7MKCSDEIQSJJGEPCO3UTUY yahoo-APTQ7MKCSDEIQSJJGEPCO3UTUY

    Hah… that’s a massive joke. “The worst offenders were permanently banned”. There are people who didn’t even make 5-10 gold on this that got permanently banned, who had zero priors and absolutely paid heavily into the system. If you’re a reddit fan, a friend, named tomkii, posted his story there. He’s spent well over 120 USD in the game, buying gems, getting a few people into playing Guild Wars 2, has put in over 600 hours in Guild Wars 1, never had a slap on the wrist for anything and guess what?

    ArenaNet said: “Nope. Everyone who used this exploit is permanently banned.”

    All this “worse case offenders” BS is just that… male bovine excrement. Before you all blow up over this “Only the worst offenders were permanently banned.” Verify that to the letter, not blanket statement it like a white knight in ArenaNet’s favor. They aren’t going to give you free gems, gold, anything for coming to their rescue on the forums. You cannot make a solid defense in their favor and say “they would never do that.” If you don’t 100% know, whether or not 100% of those people banned were, indeed, the worst offenders.

    It does serve anyone to blindly follow anyone over a cliff. And no one wants to see another WarZ happen.

  • Eric Davenport

    I think it is sad that they perma ban people due to a bug in their programming. Maybe they should learn how to test their game better instead of banning people for finding a loophole in their clearly flawed system. I have no intention to play again until they un-ban people.

  • http://twitter.com/arsenicspritzer ArsenicSpritzer

    Perma-banning should only really be done after an account has received some sort of warning beforehand. The fact that players aren’t paying a monthly subscription, makes it was too easy for ArenaNet to permanently ban accounts, since those accounts have already paid up front. Why not ban them? Maybe they will be foolish enough to buy the game again.

    As for this particular incident, I can’t say I understand exactly how it works, but it *sounds* REALLY simple to do. Make some jewelry, salvage the jewelry. I can’t count how many times I did that while leveling up that profession. If it’s no more difficult than that to exploit a game system, then maybe ArenaNet should be banned for incompetence. Too bad no one is in a position to enforce that one. Like I said, they already have our money.

  • integerx

    This was not an exploit by any measure. You had an 80% chance to get back the jewel as when you salvage any piece of jewelry. The only thing different between the snowflake jewelry and any other jewelry is that it cost less ectos to make.

    People made a lot of money upfront because the snowflakes were undervalued in the market place, that is all. By the time they actually changed it, the market had gained equilibrium with the rise in the value of snowflakes and the decrease in the value of ectos and there was no way to make any kind of profit.

  • ConceptTech

    An answer to all the above really. JUST ONE BIG DICTAORSHIP! Unfair and unjust.This will cast a Dark Shadow over ArenaNet from now on, and people will be afraid to even breath in case of a ban…Equilibrium springs to mind. End of Line………………..

  • ConceptTech

    An answer to all the above really. JUST ONE BIG DICTAORSHIP! Unfair and unjust.This will cast a Dark Shadow over ArenaNet from now on, and people will be afraid to even breath in case of a ban…Equilibrium springs to mind. End of Line………………..

  • Eric Argoni

    these kind of bans are just STUPID. its like the government allowing people to claim money as much as they want and than sending them to jail for taking to much money. IF YOU DIDNT WANT THEM TO TAKE TOO MUCH WHY DIDNT YOU PUT A LIMIT ON IT??? The diff is this is a video game and if the developers are to stupid to figure out what this will do why the hell do u put it in the dam game? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/mjtlsnelling Matthew Snelling

    There is a very simple answer to all of this. It’s in the terms and conditions :) you clicked the “I agree” when you decided to play – that was the warning. If people get banned because they didn’t read the rules, that’s entirely their problem.

  • http://www.facebook.com/djceul Hélio Gonçalves

    Well they could have just taken out the materials from the “offenders” and earnings or reset the account as a punishment… instead they are trying to sell the game again to someone who already bought it… 1st time offender account reset, second time ban. Thats my personal opinion on to this!

  • Daemon Price

    Damage the economy? What is there to damage? You spend more on repairs than you do buying things because of the massive mater-, um gea-, uh upgra-, well EVERYTHING glut.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000913008506 Daniel Coelho

    1st time caught,remove the ill gotten gains,items,coins,etc and give a warning. Known repeater? BAN!   If they tell you it’s wrong and you ignore it,good-bye.

  • Eyeswideopen101

    It’s obvious what anets doing. They get paid once for the game ($60) and the majority of players don’t buy gems so they have no problem purging people from their servers. It costs them money to keep up a certain number of servers and the faster they can downsize the servers the cheaper it will be in the long run. Also by doing this they do not have to add servers when more people buy the game. I would go so far as to say anet purposely puts “exploits” in new content with the hope of trapping and purging more “dishonest” people. Sometimes wrongly vilified people. Is it not “dishonest” on anets part to be ban happy when they already have your money? Would they be so ban happy if everybody was paying them $15 a month? I don’t think so. You don’t have to agree with me on this but if you want proof just look at how they put GW1 on autopilot and let it die. It went from 50+ servers at one time to 2. A lot cheaper to maintain and whats their motivation to maintain extra servers and add content when no more moneys coming in. So in closing, anet keep talking about integrity while you do dishonest things to add to the bottom line. We are not all sheep and stupid. I will not use my anet name because guess what you would BAN me for the truth!

  • Dudeman

    I was talking to some friends that play guild wars and was thinking of buying the game. However, I’ve decided they aren’t going to get my money. The situation that was caused by the developer’s oversight is being dish out to the end users as punishment. I guaranty if this was subscription based, we wouldn’t be hearing anything about bans.

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