Guild Wars 2's Biggest Advantage Might Be Its Timing

Written by: (Twitter @winterinformal - ) | May 31, 2012 6:15 pm

210 Comments

Why is Guild Wars 2 so popular right now?

Sure, it’s got dynamic events, cross-profession combos, WvW, great lore – and it’s just so gosh-darned pretty.

But why do people like it, when other games before it have failed to impress?

Seems like a stupid question, but hear me out. The answer might not be as simple as “it’s good,” which is, admittedly, entirely subjective, but because “it’s time.”

Or, to borrow from ArenaNet‘s vernacular, Guild Wars 2 is releasing when we, as gamers, are ready for it.

We’re all — mostly — on board the hype train for Guild Wars 2, but as previous big-name MMO releases have amply demonstrated, that train can be quickly derailed. Quality is an obvious reason for a game’s success or failure, but one can’t entirely overlook the belief people have that a new and shiny MMO must succeed because “everyone” is talking about it.

And then there’s the “WoW factor.” “Everyone” is tired of World of Warcraft, so “everyone” will flock to the new game, right?

For a game – and a genre – that “everyone” has been tired of for years, there sure are a lot of people still playing it. So why would that change now?

mmorpg guild wars 2 mmorpg     When Were Ready

Throughout the recent spate of recent “WoW killer” MMO releases, I’ve thought that — while a number of people are dissatisfied with WoW — they’re probably in the minority – just like the vocal minority of PC gamers who don’t like all the “casuals” that they’re unquestionably outnumbered by, both on the PC and in the gaming world in general.

(Don’t think that’s the case? Consider this: Console games outsell PC games by about a 10-to-1 ratio, which is only slightly smaller if digital downloads are fully taken into account. And the best-selling PC games? The Sims and The Sims 2.)

Maybe, just maybe, though, we’ve finally reached critical mass.

I think that the combination of the “WoW factor,” along with the recent WoW-like releases that have failed to adequately capture MMO players’ attention, might have finally tipped the scales in favor of a game that’s still in the MMO mold but different enough from previous releases.

MMO gamers have been burned by hype plenty of times in recent years, but I think a lot of that is because they weren’t quite as ready to move on as they thought they were, either individually or as a group. We’ll soon have multiple seemingly solid choices that go beyond what we’re used to in MMOs, and maybe that vocal minority will become a majority.

GW2 isn’t the only upcoming game going down this road. The Elder Scrolls Online seems to be borrowing a fair deal from GW2‘s playbook; The Secret World is notably different; and there are a load of MMOFPS games, like PlanetSide 2, DUST 514, and Firefall on the horizon.

mmorpg guild wars 2 mmorpg     When Were Ready

And while it’s certainly done all right for itself, one wonders if EVE Online was releasing in 2013 instead of 2003, whether it would attract even more people to its initial nonconforming premise, instead of having to fight through the scores of EverQuest, and later, World of Warcraft, fans who were still voraciously devouring the content of first- and second-generation MMOs.

I think it would.

That’s why I think Guild Wars 2 isn’t going to be “just like” all those other games that have failed to impress. Sure, quality is important, but if you’re going to try and break the mold and offer something different, you have to do it when enough people truly want something different.

We may have finally reached that time.

Guild Wars 2's Biggest Advantage Might Be Its Timing

  • http://www.facebook.com/chaz.rpg Chaz Davis

    Looks like GBTV is helping the Guild Wars 2 hype train pick up more speed, will it reach 88 mph and take us to the future or will it crash and burn?

    • JJGlyph

      Can’t really blame them, they are mainly an MMO site & there isn’t much that is exciting about MMO games right now.

    • Jado Cast

      LOL, yeah they need to hitch onto the hype train for Secret World, or Tera, or Elder Scrolls Online, or Titan, or Archage, or . . . wait . . .

      Secret World was pushed back and is going to be another Failcom
      Tera is Terrable
      Elder Scrolls is well we don’t really know yet, almost no info out
      Titan, who the hell knows anything about Titan?
      Archage not coming to a Contintent near you for god knows how long so . . .

      What are they suppose to hype as a Game Site that mostly talks about MMO’s? 

      BTW:  They do talk a lot about Rift’s expansion in TWIMMO so there is that if you are playing Rift, which nobody I know still plays Rift or SWTOR.

      • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

        YOU think Tera is bad, not everyone. Your opinions/everyone else.

        You dont know people who play rift, so no one plays rift. “ok”

        I dont know anyone who plays rift either so I guess there are 0 people playing the game right now. In fact, I think the game dont excist

        • LordNik0n

          *YOU think Tera is bad, not everyone. Your opinions/everyone else.*

           He never said everyone thought Tera was bad. That is obviously his personal opinion and he has a right to say he thinks Tera is terrible.

          *You dont know people who play rift, so no one plays rift. “ok”*

          Please read his post again because he never said that. He just said he doesn’t know anyone who is playing Rift. That doesn’t equal no one is playing Rift.

          *It takes two to tango. If you dont like what he writes, dont bother to
          reply. Just ignore him/them, you are able to do that. Sharuko may be
          trolling just to mock people here, or he is actually saying out his
          opinion. No matter what, there is no reason to ban him.*

          This is what you posted earlier. If you truly believe this take your own advice and don’t bother replying. Also if you decide to reply to someone don’t copy and paste part of what someone said so you can put your twist on it in a attempt to bash them. It makes you look bad.

          • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

            Cleary you read his post pretty different than I do and thats fine.

            He says “Tera is terrible”. What does that mean? Well I read it as he is saying “Tera is bad, why should gbtv talk about it?”.

            Read the rift sentence wrong, and im sorry for that.
            What did I copy paste? as I can recall, I wrote everything down and never used copy paste from what I wrote. Im not reading every comment on every video that is put out and I have yet to remember names on the comment pages here, so I dont really know who is trolling or not. Therefore I reply to posts even though they might be trolls. 

            I guess I should stalk these videos for comments 24/7, never say something negative about gw2(since you are automatically a troll if you do), say every mmo out is bad(except gw2 ofc) or maybe just never write here at all. Clearly videos made about gw2 is a place for fans who will attack you very quickly if you say something bad about the game or how this site handles things.

            reason I have written some negative things about gbtv regarding gw2 is because I feel its fitting under gw2 videos. I dont really have any issues with the game. Im gonna get it and test it out.

            I just feel that GBTV should handle mmo news in a bigger and better way, not what flavour of the month mmo is out/coming out soon. Just look at TERA man… Gary hates it, not much about it. When it was talked about it and gary was involved the time was used bashing the game. It’s just feels bad and wrong. Gary is a fun guy, but this site should not be run by what game he enjoys and not.

            Maybe I should have not replyed to you? Guess there is a 99% chance you are a troll.

          • Jado Cast

            I was stating my opinion and only my opinion.  You missed my point and at the risk of a reply from you that’s longer than the internet is big, I choose not to give you any more of my time.   Peace!

          • Jado Cast

            LOL, that was an interwebs version of a /face-smack!  XD

    • mcsumo

       LOL Yeah, I agree with Jado and JJ. Really can’t blame them for pumping out as much GW2 as they can. It is generating a massive number of hits for them right now.

      But I had to like your comment too. Made me smile which is rare this early in the morning.

  • Glenn Adams

    Why is an unreleased game so popular?  Really?  Let’s measure the popularity a day or two in shall we?  Does popular mean pre-release hype?  Beta demand?  Do we have that short a memory that we have forgotten the lead-up to the countless releases that have gone before?

    • Jay

      People have played it… Made it even more popular… Do the math.

  • Old Ben

    >  Console games outsell PC games by about a 10-to-1 ratio [link to VGChartz]

    VGChartz only counts _retail_ sales, and only tracks releases from major publishers. It doesn’t include the millions of copies sold online or games made by smaller developers.

    To use an example recently mentioned at GBTV, “Dear Esther” has sold over 100k copies on the PC, and yet VGChartz lists its sales as…. zero.

    To use a bigger example, VGChartz lists Skyrim’s PC sales as “2.20 million globally”, and yet there have been over 5 million Skyrim players logged into Steam _simultaneously_.

    It’s really not a very reliable website, especially for PC sales.

    • testguy111

       I use vgchartz to prove to people what a bunch of liars BW are…

      SWTOR retail sales are at 2.33 million, and as you said, this does NOT include digital.

      yet, they only had 1.3 m subs 3 months ago…

      they could have sold 1 or 2 million digital, who knows…

      “we’ve only lost 400k subs”  yeah, right

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Xeridian-Darkmoon/100000549499324 Xeridian Darkmoon

      I agree, VGC is always noted for having and publishing false information. 

      There are way more PC’s in the world than Consoles and online retailers don’t render all their records all in one locale. I guarantee some games on Steam alone trump that of console sales. @testguy111:disqus BioWare isn’t the one crunching the numbers, that would be Electronic Arts… You can thank them and LA for killing one of the best RPG companies ever. They were better off at Atari…

    • http://twitter.com/Jayeluu Jason Winter

      I’ll agree that VGC has its flaws, but consider:

      * 100,000 copies of Dear Esther doesn’t even begin to put a dent in the Console/PC lead. Even 100 such games would only account for 10 million more sales.
      * In terms of dollars, 10 million indy games would also count for a lot less than 10 million games by major publishers.
      * There are indy/downloadable games that sell on consoles, too.
      * VGC lists “end-user polling” in its methodology.

      There are a lot of games that will be underrepresented on the charts, because of how much they sold in digital form, and Portal 2 — being a Valve product and hence abundantly pushed by Steam — is probably one of the bigger ones out there.

      That “5 million Skyrim concurrent Skyrim players” is an error in Wikipedia. The original article states that 5 million players logged into Steam and assumes that Skyrim played a large part in that.

      http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-04-steam-shoots-over-5-million-concurrent-users-mark

      Is VGC wrong in some individual cases, like with WoW? Most definitely. Is it wrong by a 10x margin? Unlikely.

  • Sharuko

    It is quite the opposite GW2 couldn’t have come at a worst time.  Let us see what it has to compete with.  PlanetSide 2, FireFall, Neverwinter, Diablo 3 PvP Patch, Tera Summer Patch, The Secret World, Rift Expansion and the big elephant in the room WoW Mists of Pandaria.  This is all happening around the release of GW2.  Rift I might add has an expansion that looks great.

    Guess what a lot of these games/patches have in common?  A heavy PvP focus actual PvP not PvE masked as PvP.The ideal time to release GW2 would have been 2007 around when Warhammer Online was released.  The bubble has already popped, too much too late.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QKLPUWK6UHJPU4QR6HVBBAXYZA e k

      Good grief. Get a life man. We get it, you hate GW2. Yet you’re here ALL the freaking time. So really, go get a life and do something productive. 

      • Sharuko

        Are you selling one?

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QKLPUWK6UHJPU4QR6HVBBAXYZA e k

          No, it’s free. Just go outside.

          • Sharuko

            Do me a favor and ignore my comments.  Thx.

          • Brosaxon

            Keep the hate coming lil’ guy, it’ll make it that much sweeter when Tera goes F2P

          • Sharuko

            Tera going F2P would actually be a great thing actually.  I can’t wait either.

          • Brosaxon

             Yeah, that way more people will be able to expirience first hand the fail of Tera, can’t wait either!

          • Sharuko

            Awesome!

          • Brosaxon

             I know!

          • Old Ben

            I doubt he has ever played Tera; he just goes on about it because it’s “not GW2″.

            I’m guessing he got banned from GW (for botting or trying to scam other players) and decided to spend the rest of his days whining about GW2 as a way to give some meaning to his life.

            He could at least watch some videos about it so he didn’t keep complaining about things that aren’t even in the game, though. Proper trolling needs to at least seem vaguely on-topic, not just an endless stream of generic cut & pastes.

          • pandora005

            This is definetely a THREAT of a troll. The arguments posted by Sharuko are totally stupid and if he gets paid to work at a computer he should have the brainpower to figure it out himself.

      • Old Ben

        Now he creates fake accounts just to vote on his posts, too. I guess he was feeling lonely… :-P

        • Sharuko

          I will give you a vote for that comment.

    • http://twitter.com/Mantose Leo P

      You seem to take the time to bash everything about gw2.

      If I remember correctly you love Tera.

      My question is, why do you take the time to post when you could be playing Tera?  I know I wont be around posting much when gw2 goes live. I will be too busy enjoying myself to bother writing reading or watching anything about any other game.

      I guess it just tells us how good Tera is when you are always posting instead of playing. 

      • Sharuko

        People keep asking me this, but I post at work.  I would appreciate it if I can voice my opinion without being personally attacked by half a dozen people.  Just ignore my comments and move on.

        • Xample

          If you want ppl to ignore your comments then why comment at all? The problem is not that you are voicing your opinion the problem is the way you do it, you don’t like GW 2? That’s completely fine but, you don’t have to be “bashy” about it when voicing your opinion about the game. 

          • Sharuko

            Just so you know, I will never stop commenting.  GW2 community like to silence critics everywhere, but it is not happening.

          • pandora005

            Oh shut up already. If your criticism was well written and founded in facts we could accept it, but its not.

            This time: comparing GW2 with
            - Diablo3 (NOT an MMO),
            - Planetside 2 (ALPHA stage and a shooter-MMO in any case),
            - Neverwinter (not even any footage around = pre-pre-alpha)
            - The Secret World (totally different setting and have you looked at the clunkiness of the game?)
            - WoW (Who cares about this boring game? Really? MoP is ten times more boring than the last one because there isnt as much innovation in it this time around … oh and you still need to pay your subscription)
            And you are arguing about the release date of GW2 because all the games have pvp in it? Why didnt you mention Tribes Ascend, CoD or whatever unrelated “kill each other game” as well? If your reasoning was good then there would NEVER be a good time to release GW2, but luckily the devs and publishers of that game dont care about your kind of harebrained logic.

          • dawolv

             Also, when GW2 comes outpeople don’t have to play it for the first 3 months. In fact, I would hope they go play themselves a little WoW (since many re-enlisted thanks to D3) so the starter areas aren’t that full.

            The beauty about GW2 is that there’s no “rushing to cap”, no “firsts”. Noone cares if you come into the game 2 months late. You probably have a better time since the zerg of players has moved on to different areas and a overseeable number of players are in your area.

            As to all the games you listed, WoW is the only one really in competition, and since GW2 lacks a sub fee, none of them really are competing with GW2 over time.

            Arenanet has sold enough copies for a pre-release state already, I think they can wait some months after release to reel in the last big fish

          • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

            who cares about wow? hmm.. 10 million+ people, thats who. dont bash wow and say “no one cares about it” just because you dont. So silly.

          • pandora005

            Yes, obviously there are still a lot of Blizzard fanboys, BUT I think its time people start realizing that there are A LOT of good and BETTER games out there compared to WoW AND that Blizzard isnt the company from 10+ years ago anymore which made good games designed with the gamers needs in mind.

            All the recent releases since Starcraft 2 came out have really shown how uncaring they are about “what is good for a game”. Sure they can still make anything into a successful game due to their reputation AND due to the shitload of money they get each month from WoW subscriptions, BUT that doesnt mean its a good game anymore as Diablo 3 and the “online only single-player” has shown and the free Facebook marketing they tried to implement into BattleNet 0.2 …

            Just listen to someone explain it to you … people keep playing WoW because if they stop all their time and money spent on it FEELS WASTED. I know, I did it a few years ago and thats exactly what it felt like, so like any good drug addict they keep playing and paying.

          • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

            True story, i had a really bad time 
            quiting wow just becuz if i stoped 
            why did i invest so much in it the first place.

            and now when its too late and did my calculations i knew i could have bought a new motorbike (scooter ) or a super pc.

            so what did i learn subscriptions are bad for your wallet on the long run

          • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

            I have calculated that if I have a sub fee over 1 year I spend around 1200KR(norwegian money). Here in Norway thats about two xbox 360 games, For me, the play value for wow is way larger than most xbox games out there for such a price. Only exception for me in a goooood while is skyrim.

            Several of my friends are avid xbox 360 players and they spend WAY more than me on games. 

            1200KR here in Norway aint much anyway. 1200kr for 1 year entertainment is actually rather cheap here:P

          • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

            Man, I have played wow since launch and I still do. Had my longer breaks here and there. I done alot with my man character, a Human Paladin. I done so much stuff and it was fun doing it. But do I have a problem not going back to wow? Not really. Afterall, it’s a game. Besides, since wow is a mmo that comes out wih xpacs and your characters will still be around, you can in reality take a break for 1+ year and then just come back and play some. 

            I know alot of people play wow out of the feeling that they dont want it all to be wasted. I refuse to believe that most of the 10million+ do so though. It would just be to bad. 

            Just because you felt wow was like a drug, doenst mean other people think it is. I play it out of sheer fun. I log on when I want to, I play what I want, when I want. Thats how great wow is now. You can play whenever you want and do whatever youw want since its easy accesible. Back in the day we had to invest hours everyday if we were to get anything out of the game. To be honest, im glad those days are gone.

            When it comes to there battleNet thing.. I believe Blizzard has a HUUGE plan for this in the future and they are taking babysteps on the way. With diablo, starcraft & wow as the juggernauts they are going to release more new games. We will see some huge umbrealla sub models or something in the future. Im sure of it. 

            That online only part on D3 felt a bit bad now yes I agree on that. Cant blame them for doing it though. Just how it is and im sure in the future more and more gaming companys are going to do it.

          • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

            dude, i took the liberty too google you, and almsot everywhere your bitching about GW2 even on Tera online reddit, on topics that have nothing to do with GW2 
            you still bitching i guess you must have a pretty empty and sad life that you complain so much about a game.

            here some quots from your reddit
            just so you know that i dont lie

            REDDIT QUOTS FROM SHARUKO

            Title: Ouche… 
            “STFU, you had no interest in Tera, you were just trolling. Posting the worst review out of a dozen proves it. You are disgusting and you belong in the GW2 subreddit as TotalBiscuit says the worst community in gaming.”

            Title: Ouche…
            “Your sole reason for coming here was trolling because you never post here and post on the GW2 subreddit. Funny how you picked one review when there were a dozen other. Typical GW2 fanbois, the most hated community in gaming.”

            Title: Anyone able to manage their subscription yet?
            “Again, I have seen this argument in every MMO including non-MMOs. On the D3 forums everyone is crying about how little content there is and doing the same thing over and over. Same in Rift, SWTOR and WoW.
            These complaints are rampant in all MMOs. I don’t think there will be an MMO that quenches the thirst of a hardcore player that does everything quickly it is impossible. GW2 for example has almost no content and they think like Warhammer Online the MMO can last solely based on PvP.
            Unrealistic expectations cannot be met.”

        • Sklys

          If you are commenting at work and not working, you have a great boss
          (if you have a boss) who pays you for not working.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kaj.udanga Kaj Udanga

            *dons tinfoil hat*  Maybe this is his job?

          • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

            Maybe its your job to spread the gw2 hype?

          • http://www.facebook.com/kaj.udanga Kaj Udanga

            I’d love to have a job like that.

        • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

          Opinions are like nipples, everybody has one. Some have firm points, others are barely discernible through layers, and some are displayed at every opportunity regardless of whether the audience has stated “I am interested in your nipples”

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Boiwka/1167985586 Mike Boiwka

            Everybody has “one”?

          • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

            LOL, well technically the bare minimum is atleast one 
            nipple, some ppl got 3 but anyway i was talking about the “opinion” part and admit it you knew that :)

            I also could change my statement in “one” too “them”
            well let me do just that cuz it seems weerd idd.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Boiwka/1167985586 Mike Boiwka

            lol… Sorry, couldn’t resist.  The thought of all these one-nippled people out there was too funny to not take a jab at that.  ;)

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

            Not true! Double mastectomy(most likely due to breast cancer) would result in zero.

          • Old Ben

            You could have just changed it to “navels”. ;-)

        • Jay

           Lol hey Sharuko, it was fun when only I really noticed you, and would shut you down; but now that almost everyone knows you’re a troll, I kinda feel sorry for you.

          Since you’re just stating your opinion, why can’t other people state their opinions about your opinion and you move on? I know I may have just blown your mind, but let’s be fair here. ;)

          Enjoy Tera… Haha sorry, couldn’t even type that with a straight face.

        • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

          Sharuko, this site is turning into a gw2 site. Will probably last until launch and some time after that. If you express negative opinions here about gw2, be ready to be attacked and called wowfanboy, terafanboy, gw2hater and so on.

        • http://twitter.com/Mantose Leo P

          I am sorry you took it as a personal attack , I didnt know you were so thin skinned.

          You will have to develop a thicker skin if you plan on constantly flaming a game for no apparent reason other than you are upset it is better than your current game.

          If you are at work , shouldnt you be , umm I dont know… working? Oh I know, all of your numerous posts are while you are on lunch break right? LOL

      • Xample

        I was thinking the same, Tera must be sooo fun that its players rather spend their time posting comments. Or maybe he is doing a Tera quest where he has to bash other MMOs 10 times to complete it. 

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

           That would be a very unique metagame. :)

      • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

        If you wonder why Sharuko is constantly bashing on GW2 it’s becauze he has one of these moments (wich are plenty)

      • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

        Game you play must suck since you are here writing and not playing them

        • http://twitter.com/Mantose Leo P

          I am not playing a game at the moment. gw2 isnt out yet, I thought that was pretty obvious in the post you replied too….

    • Sklys

      I see you are here with your hate of GW2 and love of Rift. Yet reading your comment
      on the expansion coming to Rift, you were belly acking about it. Seems you like nothing
      about any MMOs but to grip.

    • Rizal m

      Lol Sharuko the professional MMO analyst. 
      What you say is all based on your assumptions.
      You know assuming is the mother of all fkup right?
         

      • pandora005

        Nope … Sharuko is a professional “GW2 criticiser”. He whines on EVERY thread instead of spending his time better … thus he must be paid to do this OR extremely stupid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Johnson/1353890372 Michael Johnson

      You seriously think a Rift xPAC and Tera patch is going to compete with GW2?
      Fuck, you are dense, dude

      • Sharuko

        Yes, I think the Rift expansion does everything GW2 does and does it better.  Both the expansion and the Tera patch have more content than GW2 will at end game.  I wouldn’t mention those games if I didn’t think that was the case.

    • Jay

       I’m going to like Sharuko’s comment, just so more people can see it…

      Let’s give Sharuko the spotlight he deserves. :D

      • H S

         Probably the last person to give him any attention since the doctor smacked his bottom to get him to breath.

    • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

      you know whats funny that Tera needs to do so hard its best to get recognized (marketing) by the mmo community cuz the only thing keeping tera floating is its combat and bams thats about it, almost no content.
      While GW2 dosen’t and dident need anything to make a name for it self, in factAnet is almost forced by the community too put stuff out.

    • Damir Miric

      First. Only Tera and TSW and Rift are kind of a same genre. Out of those 3 Tera and TSW have monthly sub which makes them bad competition and Rift is a wow clone. Moving from wow to rift is not much of a difference. And MOP is ofc a wow clone too. 

      GW1 has a huge community already. GW2 is the game that soloves at least 20 huge problems that mmoRPGs had in the past. I’m sorry that you cant see how they made an awesome product. 

  • http://www.kaiketsu.enjin.com/ Corey Jenkins

    Technically is it even possible for GW2 to fail from a PR perspective at least? Most people would take the number of overall subs either high or lower then the games expectations as doing well or failing. In the case of GW2 however, once you buy the box and sign up then you’re in forever. Since there are no subs they can’t judge the games success in that manner. The only other option might be number of active accounts or maybe even revenue Arena Net is bringing in, which might not be completely accurate or if all else fails maybe general area population at a given time. It’ll be interesting to see though. Really looking forward to this game, hope it does well, although the free once you buy the box model almost guarantees that it should.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kaj.udanga Kaj Udanga

       A good criteria might be number of concurrent users at peak and average number of concurrent users. From a PR perspective, of course.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      I’m not so sure.  My concern is with the level 50, 60, 70 and 80 content. I think so many players are going to be so casual, the harder higher level content will be a ghost town.  Also, after a few months finding anyone to do harder content will be next to impossible and the gameplay will fizzle between level 30 to 50. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      General area population can be tricky as well since you have no idea how many overflows there are for a particular zone. If there is a 50% population drop which shrinks the number of overflows by half, will you notice?

  • http://twitter.com/thetotaltitan Total Titan

    The fanboy is thick in this one.

    • Unknownman14

      I know bro, I can feel it all the way up here in Canada.

  • Jado Cast

    He’s not the only one, I’ve noticed.

  • Jado Cast

    Look out, you have Troll Agro!  ;-)

  • tehixe

    GW2 is hyped because it’s a real MMO that lacks a monthly fee.  They’re the first AAA title to say, “You know what?  We’re not going to charge you $15 a month to rent your character.  If you give us money it will be because we’ve produced something you want that enhances your play experience.”  THAT is what it’s about time for.

    • Jay

       I agree, a lot people have been conditioned to think that all quality MMORPGs must come with a subscription. Some people wouldn’t consider GW1 a true “MMO” so GW2 will be the first to actually bring this level of competition to WOW without a subscription fee.

      Hopefully this will force the hand of other MMO devs to stop trying to gouge their customers, just because they can get away with it. WOW was great, I’m not going to knock it, but it’s ridiculous for their not to be a successor by now. I’ve haven’t played WOW since a few months after Cata, so I’m more than ready for GW2.

      • Old Ben

        >  Some people wouldn’t consider GW1 a true “MMO”

        But we all know the real reason for that, right?

        You can’t jump.

        I’m (mostly) joking, of course, but one thing I found in WoW was that you could usually tell how competent a player was by how much he or she jumped. It’s weird, but players who jumped a lot tended to have much better awareness. I guess if a player is hopping around that means he feels in control, and probably isn’t staring at his action bars.

        • Jay

          “players who jumped a lot tended to have much better awareness.”

          Hehe either that or too much sugar… I would actually walk (literally use the walk key – I guess it was a little RP fun) around most of the time between fights, and did the most DPS in my raid groups by far. I do know what you mean though, those jumpy guys are usually just itching to hit something.

          I do think it’s funny you mentioned the no jumping in GW1… I played FFXI with no jumping so it wasn’t as big of a factor for me.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      Are they the first? Where does that put games like Aion and LotRO? They didn’t start that way but they got there before GW2.

  • Sklys

    Seems to me, there are a lot of folks who love GW2 and there are a some who do not.
    There are a lot of good points about GW2 but again there are a lot of good points about other
    MMOs. To me the best  point (good for GW2 and bad on other MMOs) of  GW2 is
    “free to play”

  • http://twitter.com/TheOpapanax Most Morbid One

    GW2 is going to go hard. I think if they can stick to their overall plan of keeping the microtransactions in control. This game can rock for a good while and I’ll most likely stick around to see how things grow.

    Highly anticipating this game along with Planetside 2 rightfully so. Till then as much D3 and DayZ as possible I guess..

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robbert-de-Wilde/1806039882 Robbert de Wilde

      I second that!

  • http://twitter.com/MaximusLupus Maximus Lupus

    Makes sense, but I think it’s part coincidental and part planned. ArenaNet must know enough about the MMO market to release this game at this point and time.
    The game is also very great in itself. You don’t even need to compare this with another competing MMO to say that Guild Wars 2 will do better than many recent MMOs when it launches.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Thats really not saying that much.  It would only take a couple million in box sales to do better than recent MMOs.  Not so sure 2 million box sales on launch day would could as a success.  

      • Jay

         Hehe I think WOW has made people forget that millions of sales is no small number… It takes very rare circumstances for sales numbers like WOW and COD to happen. Just because something doesn’t do ridiculous numbers like Diablo III at launch, doesn’t mean it’s not a “success”.

  • Cyclops07

    the thing that gives this credence is the fact that I have loved the game when i played in the betas. It would be one things if I had played and thought it sucked but I have really no complaints other than minor ones in any area. plus no sub can’t see how they can go wrong. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vic-Coleman/100000230803712 Vic Coleman

    Here are my issues with GW2, WvWvW. For one it’s scale. It is in a catch 22 at that one hand if one player can turn the tide of battle in noticeable ways why have such a large team?on the other hand if they can’t why show up at all? Two what happens when one server never wins? Should they go in their knowing that best they will chose what other sever too win? 

    Weapons, weapons having their own abilities. Does that mean weapons have stats or that I may have to keep a lesser weapon until I get a higher level weapon of that type? No raids, pvp is all good and all but at best in order for one person or team to win another team has to lose. One of the things I enjoy about MMO’s is working together and as much the holy trinity is flawed in many games, setting limits, strengths and weaknesses on classes/roles means you have to depend on other people. you have to you know work together.

    But lastly and most importantly the biggest issue I have with gw2 is the HYPE. No mater how good the game is, I do not see how it can live up it’s hype. I do not recall there being this much hype for this long even on SWTOR. I may or my not buy it, but that would be only after playing it.

    • pandora005

      GW2 is – like all computer games – is all about FUN … and you can get fun from more than “winning”. Its all about “how you get there” and not the end result. If a server “never wins” the players need to improve. The servers will get a ranking for their WvW success and will be matched against other servers with a similar success rate after a few months.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vic-Coleman/100000230803712 Vic Coleman

        Do you enjoy loosing? Also that was one part of the argument against one part of the game. Is winning everything? No, I greatly enjoy playing sc2 and loosing if I learn from it, That is a one on one thing, the issue is scaling. Let’s say you are the best pvp player in the world. In WvWvW if the match swings your sides way a lot because of you, why have so many people on your team? Did they do anything other than bask in your glory? Or, what if you couldn’t swing the field of battle in your teams favor? What then is the point of all you skill? In large conflicts you are working on a forced level playing field and it increasingly harder to have team work.

        • pandora005

          People need to learn to NOT throw a fit when they loose AND they need to learn to acknowledge their own shortcomings. If a server doesnt “win” in WvW the people have to acknowledge they are bad at it and either improve their gameplay OR accept that they are bad and just play “for the fun of the large scale chaos”.

          That example with “the best pvp player in the world in WvW” is kinda bad because there are very different “rules” compared to structured pvp and dueling. Its much more about the team and good teamwork than about individual skill. You might want to acknowledge that there is no use for a personal ego in WvW like you *seem* to have because you are so focused about that being better than the rest and not getting the glory. Its really not impportant who is the best player individually but rather which side has the best team[work]. The defenders advantage makes sure you need to be MUCH better as a team.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

       Weapons do not have abilities. Equipping different *types*(sword/dagger/longbow/pistol/etc.) of weapons alters skills 1-5 on the skill bar but it’s not like the skills are attached to the item. Every sword will give the same 5 skill as every other sword.

      As for stats, of course they matter to some degree and especially for something like vitality but it’s not like the drops are so rare that it needs to be a concern. You can also buy equivalent gear using Karma from Dynamic Events or Glory from PvP so you are not at the mercy of the RNG unless you want particular stats + particular look but then there are Transmutation Stones. You can also craft yourself better gear.

    • Jay

       A lot if not all the questions you bring up have been discussed in depth, even on this very site. I suggest you just do a bit of research… WvW is just open world PVP fun with strategic elements… Weapons have stats and what’s your definition of “raids”, because you said you enjoy working to together, and there are 5 man explorable (tough) dungeons. Every class is unique, and has strengths, so there is your team work.

      As far as hype goes, SWTOR had more hype than GW2 earlier in its development, but after people got to play GW2 (key word is “play”) then the “hype” really got going. However I don’t consider a lot of it hype, because it’s just people’s response to what they played, not what they thought it might be…

  • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

    Good games comes out all the time, it’s going to be very hard to release a game at the “right time”. If arenanet do theyre job(so far looks like they are) they will release a very good and strong game. That’s all they need to do to make GW2 successful. If the game is good enough, people will come to it :)

    The fact that gw2 dont have sub model is a plus for them. People that play sub games might pick up GW2 just because of that, no sub model in gw2.It’s a one time purchase and they can play it whenever without paying 15 extra dollars a month.

    Sub based games is not a issue if you play just one of them. It will become a issue if you love wow, tera, swtor, rift etc that has sub models. Suddenly you would have to pay a big amount of money every month. Maybe people is willing to pay for 2 sub games a month, but I really doubt it.

    So for many people they need to choose wich sub game they are gonna play, or they mix it up. one month swtor, next tera and then wow and never really dip deep into the game.

    Maybe there can only be a few sub games out there in the mmo world? 

  • Fritz Schober

    Endgame is missing – yes, you can collect fancy looking armor to well to
    look fancy. But that is not enough motivation for the majority. The
    majority wants to get better gear with better stats and get stronger in a
    RPG. Doing the instances and “all the work” just for a pretty dress
    instead of a medicore looking dress with the same stats will not work
    for the majority. But since GW2  has no subs it does not matter so much
    that 3 months after release more than half of the players will quit
    (that’s what I’m expecting).

    • H S

       If carrot and stick games are your style, there are plenty of games out there for you to play. Anet designed this game for those who MMO’s have ignored over the past 10 years and I highly doubt gear stats are something they could give two sh!*’s about.

      I played Operation Flashpoint twice a week for 6 years and then Arma for another 3 years and never once did I get “new” gear to keep me playing it. Maybe it was the sheer expansive world, the maturity of the community, and the fact the game was fun was the real motive.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Problem with this game is the hype.  The GW2 community is trying to say this game is for everyone and you don’t need end game like goals.  They seem to be a bunch of snobs, who attack anyone that doesn’t think the game is perfect.

        Played the game for about 30 hours during the first BWE.  I think the game is fun to play and will give me several months of entertainment. But the folks I spoke with who left GW1, said they left because after a few months it was impossible to get their guild to run any difficult content. 

        If guilds are still limited to 100 players, the next BWE will be telling, excited to see how many active players we will have in WAS.  

        • H S

           Please link me where they said this game is for everyone. I’ll wait.

          Anet said long ago, they were going to design a game that was missing in the MMO world. The game is more for the explorer, the team player, and the competitive PvP player. Where gear make little effect on the outcome vs the skill needed by the player.

          As for the hype, that was generated by the people who played the game. I got to play for over 40+ hours now, and I can say with certainty, the hype doesn’t even match the actual gameplay. To methe game is one of the best games Ive played in over 20 years. Fun wise that is.

        • Odeezee

          there are many things off with your reasoning;

          1. do people even know what hype is and if they do why do you care if a game has hype around it or not? are people so weak minded that they sheepishly follow the herd? if i am hyped up for GW2 and others are not so what? one opinion does not invalidate the other. i did my research, saw some gameplay, was intrigued by the philosophy of design and the direction, played in the BWE1/Stress Test and realized that they were indeed being honest about their systems and designs and it validated my formed opinion/love for the game. if someone reads many impressions like mine and buys the game solely on the number of other people interested and excited for GW2, that is a problem with THAT person and NOT the “hype”.

          2. the game is for “mostly” everyone and it does have “end-game” goals, they are just different. people will just have to approach it differently. e.g. WoW has different “end-game” content than EQ, you don’t approach WoW’s “end-game” the way you would have EQ’s.

          3. the snob comment is really “meh” as it’s not based on fact and is just pure opinion and conjecture.

          4. GW1 is not GW2 so drawing those parallels are irrelevant and that statement has more to do with the players in question than the game anyway.

          • Jay

            Where did you come from… I no longer have to type, I can just press the “Like” button. :)

    • http://www.kaiketsu.enjin.com/ Corey Jenkins

       People play MMO’s for different reasons man. If you’re into the whole end game raiding scene to get better gear for your character then maybe Guild Wars isn’t for you, but not everyone plays these games for that type of experience. I for one used to play the original guild wars until I ended up on WoW with some friends. To me the only purpose raiding served was so I could see the rest of the game. I started raiding because I wanted to see what happened next and in some cases just getting the chance to fight cool bosses. The gear for me was just a tool in order to see what actually happened after I hit max level. GW2 in my opinion still offers plenty to do at max level on the PVE side of things with the exporable dungeons which are equal in difficulty from what I’ve seen to most raids in recent MMO’s out there. Also, as someone who likes to experience the game as a whole, as far as PVP and PVE goes, the PVE,WVW and competitive PVP tournaments are fun and meaningful enough to keep me playing for years on end.

      I also really love MMO’s for the community and social aspect. Being a guild leader, the idea that I can go back to any zone and have it challenging(with the level scaling system) is a great way to help out members of my guild as well as do meaningful content with guild members and friends in general to increase the longevity of the game. In most current MMO’s there is almost no reason to go back to a zone once you’ve leveled past it and you end up just getting stuck doing the same max level content until the devs decide to release a new update. In my opinion their design for this game is pretty stellar. I like the idea of having my challenging and fun content sprinkled throughout the whole game, instead of me having to grind all the way to the of the game before I can really start enjoying it.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        This is part of my concern with GW2 PVE content.  There is lots of discussion about repeating low level content over and over again.  But, once you complete harder end game content, there doesn’t seem to be a motivation to try it again. 

        I am hoping for a better social experience next BWE, played GW2 for about 30 hours last BWE and maybe exchanged 10 words with fellow gamers. Lost track with WAS and mainly did Dynamic Events with players I never spoke with or zerg walls in WvW with faceless groups.

        The only social time I spent was watching Lore steam GW2 and chat with the other viewers.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

          What you’ve said is basically the same “no end game argument” other people have used. I find that is a bit contradictory, why is repeating raids okay but repeating other things not?

    • testguy111

      look at League of Legends, or Magic the Gathering, or guild wars 1 “hard mode” gameworld, or EVE’s “5 skill-level system” which has diminishing returns, not exponential returns as WoW’s level system

      horizontally scaling systems demand real skill, not just “time invested into the game”

      once you understand that you cannot just farm your way to victory, you’ll start thinking about strategies and tactics.

      it makes for better players and less entitled losers (like WoW has far too many)
      ————————————————

      the biggest reason I hate gear grind is that it makes content inaccessible.

      new gear does not unlock content, it denies it.

      every content below your level, and that percentage quickly approaches 99% in e.g. WoW, is dead for you.

      you can’t do it. unless you’ve got very small genitalia and need to go to a lvl 15 dungeon with your lvl 85 and prove to yourself how tough you are…^^

      meaningful combat that is fun and engaging does only take place at your gear level. everything lower is so easy, it’s pure torture

      guild wars 1 turned the whole game world (a few times bigger than WoW) into a hard mode version of itself and provided a challenge even for the best geared hardcore players.

      GW2 scales you down (and I really hope they do a hard mode version as well..)

      if you have horizontal scaling, you never lose old content. it’s still fun to do.
      —————————————-

    • testguy111

      none of these systems are about power, but looking flashy, or being versatile.

      gear grind systems are in the minority.

      WoW is one of the very few successful horizontal systems.

      examples:

      ————————————

       
      LoL has 3.4 times the player base of WoW…

      and people pay with real cash for stupid outfits…

      and LoL only gives you 4 skills you can use…

      ————————————-

      magic the gathering has a gazillion cards, but you only get to hold 7 in your hand.

      ————————————-

      EVE has around 400 skills (?? could be more even) but it would take you
      18 real life years to train them all… and they only got 5 skill levels
      that take an exponential time to train, but give diminishing rewards
      for every level.

      people buy ships in EVE that give them no advantage, cost sometimes
      hundreds of $ (if you convert the ingame money to real life cash) and
      then get blown up and lose it^^

      just for being seen in a flashy rare ship for a few minutes

      ————————————-

      GW1 gives you 600+ skills but you get only 8 you can use at one time…

      ————————————-

      • http://www.facebook.com/kaj.udanga Kaj Udanga

         WoW being a successful horizontal system must be a typo?

        • testguy111

           thx… corrected it

    • Odeezee

      do you have data for all MMOs that you can show us letting us see what evidence you are basing any of this on? most importantly, do you even understand what the terms you are using like “end-game” and “majority” even mean? let me try an help you out real quick.

      1. “end-game” is any activity that can be done once you reach max level. in GW2 this consist of:

      a) an entire continent of Elite level 80 Dynamic Events (DE) (due to scaling of a player to content all areas of the game can still be enjoyed by max level players who want to help out lowbies, play with their lower level friends or just enjoy the content that was not there their first time through due to the dynamic and area impact nature of DEs)

      b) 3 level 80 5 man dungeons with 2 modes Story Mode (PUG friendly) and Explorable Mode (highly coordinated group friendly – though all the other 5 various level dungeons can be done at any level and still with relative difficulty due to player scaling to the level of content)

      c) public dungeons

      d) Structured PvP with the 2 modes Hot-Join (1-10 players per side) and Tournament (eSport 5v5 teams)

      e) WvW PvP where there are 3 servers are matched up against each other for 2 week long battles. you can level from level 2-80 entirely in WvW. you can lay siege to castles, towers, forts and supply points. there are PvPvE dungeons that you can partake in. the servers as they gain a higher score gain access to server wide buffs for both WvW and PvE. then teams scores are tallied at the end and matched up against other teams of similar score and size to make the competition more balanced.

      2. majority means more than 51% of all players would have to believe in what you said. which of course unless you can prove it is just your opinion or hope, i cannot tell which. you also have to make the assumption that GW2 is even aiming at your “majority” of players in the first place. then you also have to assume that people can ONLY like one form of “end-game” content delivery system.

      • Jay

         This comment should be a sticky…

    • Arkanthos

      Most MMo players collect armor to look fancy, the stats are usualy a must have (so they use transmute to a better looking armor), if all the armor in a mmo would look like shit and stats would be better, belive me more ppl would leave the game than if the stats stayed the same and the looks being better and better. Gw1 proved that:P

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      Considering the fact that there are F2P games that are funded by selling pretty dresses/hair style/etc. the claims about the majority seems debatable. Some of those also give stats but only some.

      I’ve never seen a game where a particular hairstyle gave stat/an advantage. :)

  • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

    Gamebreaker crew could you please BAN SHARUKO
    he is a troll menace and a spaming nucence.

    we arent discusing GW2 and its content anymore but rather
    replying and flaming on this guy every single thread it seems
    becuz of his ignorance and incohesiveness of his comments.

    I think its safe too say that the majority of viewers or atleast the vocal’s
    dont like him and think the same way.

    • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

      so gbtv should ban people who dont have the same views as the majority of people that comment here? They should ban people who dont like certain games? 

      It takes two to tango. If you dont like what he writes, dont bother to reply. Just ignore him/them, you are able to do that. Sharuko may be trolling just to mock people here, or he is actually saying out his opinion. No matter what, there is no reason to ban him.

      • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

        Your right i agree,
        but there are many more ppl here on gamebreaker ho don’t like GW2 
        and nobady is complaining about them voicing there opinion.
        In fact i would love to have some constructive criticsime about GW2 cuz it aint a perffect game as the majority of game site make it seem and the BWE proved that there is alot more to do.

        The thing is Sharuko is not adding anything constructive to debat about he
        is a expert in making constructive discusions in to a trollfests that only revolves
        around Sharuko or Tera vs Gw2 as a subject instead of the actuale content gbtv is putting out. He keeps spaming about it every single time if you read one of his statements you have read them all srsly.

        So the vocal majorety tryd to disscus with him on a civil maner but he ignored our 
        previous arguments and just kept talking like his statments based on air, are “facts”. Thats why nobady is actualy tring to discuss with him but just trolls
        him about Tera cuz we know it hurts him in some weerd emotional way.
        If you dont belive it google sharuko’s reddit tera topic and everybody 
        ho only says something nice about GW2 or complains a little bit about his beloved game gets flamed and inssulted by him.
        (check my quots a few posts below)

        It got to the point he got famous here on gbtv comment section
        that everyone know’s he dosent like GW2 but still he keeps posting about it
        as if he hopes it go’s away if he spams long enough about it or convert everybody too like Tera wich isent going to happen.

        At the same time i hope you have noticed we arent talking about GW2 
        anymore but about Sharuko ;) you see my point, and this is going on for months 
        and the fun of it is gone for me and many more.

      • pandora005

        Its NOT about his opinion. He is clearly a TROLL because his arguments are cheap and clearly wrong … objectively. Just look at the reasoning “GW2 release date is bad because lots of pvp games and patches come out at the same time” … and then he lists games which arent even close to release and non-MMOs and so on … which you cant really compare with GW2.

        So far the comments below the videos are pretty free of trolls, but Sharuko is the first clear one … and this isnt the first time he spams useless stuff in the comment section.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QKLPUWK6UHJPU4QR6HVBBAXYZA e k

        Not that I think he should be banned at this point but what he’s doing is disruptive to the discussion process. All he does is spam his opinions over and over again and I’ve never seen him engage in a real discussion where it wasn’t just him repeating the same negative opinions. If his opinion isn’t going to change then what’s the point in constantly posting them? 

        I mean, we have rules against spamming right? So why should it matter what the content is if they’re just spamming? What Sharuko is doing is just sophisticated trolling/spamming. 

        This isn’t about his opinion, it’s about his deliberate attempt to provoke. If I were a mod I’d give him a couple of warnings first before I’d issue any ban. I mean anyone with a brain knows what he’s doing here. He obviously does not like the game so why is he here in the comment section of the game he hates so much? He already voiced his opinion many many times. At this point he’s just picking fights. 

    • Sharuko

      If I were to get banned for not liking GW2 I wouldn’t mind at all.  In fact, I would welcome it.

      • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

        if they were to ban you because you express your opinions in same matter like everyone else here, I would leave this site to rot and never tell about this site to anyone again.

        • Razor4884

          The first 3-4 of his comments appeared to be him “expressing his opinions,” but everything after that was an obvious attempt to cause disruption and negative feedback in the forums. Maybe if his opinions were actually backed up with facts rather than assumptions, then we could have a debate, rather than a trolling fest.

      • pandora005

        You wouldnt get banned for not liking GW2 but rather for trolling the comments sections with nonsensical comments and stupid arguments without any reasoning behind them … which you do with dilligence.

        • Jay

           Well said, sir…

      • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

        Like Pandora005 already said and i quote
        “You wouldnt get banned for not liking GW2 but rather for trolling the comments sections ”

        nuff said

    • Odeezee

      nah, there is no need to ban him. just ignore what he is saying and move on. i will say it is a pity that he does not bring up any valid arguments in his posts, we could actually have more meaningful discussions otherwise.

      • Scott Brown

        I’m not really sure what all the hullabaloo is about. If you don’t like what he writes, just ignore him. 

        • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

          its hard to ignore someone if he is like every time in your face disrupting 
          disscusions with troll comments

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

             It’s pretty easy, just click the Collapse Thread button or use Greasemonkey(or your browser’s equivalent) to nuke all posts from a certain person. That aside, any “feature request” you have would need to get to DISQUS. I haven’t checked but the DISQUS website might already have filtering options.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

       To be fair Sharuko is just a little kid who doesn’t get enough attention at home.

      • pandora005

        … a little kid who posts from work? Nope, at some point you have to take a stand and say NO to a kid.

        • Old Ben

          I’m posting this from the International Space Station.

          See? It’s easy.

          • pandora005

            Well we still have to say NO to kids … a determined NO!

            That actually is one of the biggest problems of our western societies nowadays that the kids dont know when to stop and dont respect others enough to keep their mouth shut or refrain from doing shitty things. Its all about “look at me” for them and that is bad because 99.999% of them are not worth looking at.

          • Old Ben

            > Well we still have to say NO to kids…
            > a determined NO!

            But they’re so sexy…!

            Seriously, don’t insult kids by comparing them to such a boring troll. There’s a difference between immaturity and asshattery. 

          • pandora005

            Well he is behaving like a spoiled 6-year-old … even if his body is 20+ and he has a job which makes him millions. Consequently he is a kid.

            Personally I think we need to apply the “DUNE definiton” (*1) more to determine who is really a human being and who isnt … sadly the majority of the homo sapiens are not humans, because their basic instincts and their ego controls them instead of their brains and willpower.

            (*1) “keep your hand in the box and you are a human, pull it out and you are an animal”

    • Sklys

      I would say not to ban him, after all he has a right (like the rest of us) to state his/her
      comments. Besides I would have nothing to read ( have a good laugh) with my coffee
      in the morning.

    • pandora005

      Either he gets banned OR the comments section gets a revamp to allow for DISLIKES and SPAM in addition to LIKEs … just like Youtube has it. If we get those buttons we can solve it ourselves, otherwise the moderators have to do their job.

      • Sharuko

        The people that need to be banned are the ones with personal attacks, none of which I have made.  Criticizing a game should not be out of bounds, especially games that are mediocre, subpar and over-hyped.

        • XMP_Data_Guru

          Np.. people like sharuko are screaming for someone to pay attention to them on the internet because there real life sucks so bad.  So everyone just needs to say… sharuko we notice you online and hope it stops you from killing yourself in the real world when trolling online no longer fills that gaping black hole that is your real life….

          • Sharuko

            Thanks for the kind words, appreciate it.

          • XMP_Data_Guru

            You call it as you see it with GW2 I am calling it as I see it with your poor personality. If you think the game sucks why are you so stuck on posting in ever discussion about it?  Go to a story about a game you like and talk.  On top of half of what you say is either flat out lies or very distorted truths. 

        • Spammerbam

           You don’t have to be banned because everyone should have fair opportunities to voice their own opinions.

          But..why are you still here? We get it, Tera and all the other games are great, yet you somehow managed to find all the time to comment and reply on all the GW2 articles; it just seems like you spend more time organizing your hate comments rather than enjoying whatever game you’re playing. Is Tera lacking contents for you? Do you have THAT much hate for GW2 just because you made the mistake of buying the game just to test it out?

          Relax, go play and enjoy the game you’re playing. Go enjoy life.
          Talk to girls if you have to.

          Both you and I know that you spend just a little too much time doing unnecessary things, like being here in the comments section all the time.

          • Old Ben

            > Do you have THAT much hate for GW2 just
            > because you made the mistake of buying the
            > game just to test it out?

            Considering the basic mistakes he keeps making when posting about it, I doubt he’s ever bothered to watch videos of GW2, let alone play it. 

            I suspect he got banned from GW for botting or something along those lines, and decided to go on a crusade against GW2.

            Either that or he’s just really, really lonely, and since articles about GW2 seem to attract more viewers, he just trolls those to try to get some replies.

        • pandora005

          Well you are NOT criticizing the game by using logic and good facts. Just look below how unrelated your facts are … comparing GW2 to Diablo 3 (not an MMO), Planetside 2 (not that close to release as GW2 IMO, so whoever comes out first wins and comparing fantasy-MMO to shooter-MMO is ludicrous anyways) and a bunch of other stupid things. According to that logic there would never ever be a good time to release a new MMO (because WoW exists) and that is totally stupid.

          You just have to get better with logic and reasoning and facts if you dont want people to attack you personally. If you continue like this it is clearly trolling.

      • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

        mby banning is harch but the youtube revamp idea is awsome
        that way those ho want a morning laugh can read his comments and everybody els could have a meaningfull discussion.

    • Old Ben

      To quote Arthur Figgis, the village idiot fill a very important social role. There is this very real need in society for someone whom almost anyone can look down on and ridicule.

      • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

        got to love 
        Monty Python 

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Lol, looked it up.  There is alot of effort in idiotting. 

        “Arthur takes idiotting seriously. He is up at six o’clock every morning working on special training equipment designed to keep him silly. And of course he takes great pride in his appearance.”        

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

    It’s not about wanting something new, but wanting something that is enjoyable and fun for the long term – that’s why I got hooked on GW1, and why I am not moving on to GW2. I have no doubt that GW2 will succeed, but it’s not the game I want to play. GW1 and SWTOR are offering me enough enjoyable play time to last quite a while.

    ESO, while attempting to buck the trend by following GW2′s model is simply another generic fantasy game with some familiar names. Eve would not be any more successful now than 10 years ago – the core design of the game is not casual friendly and since in this very article casuals are the core gamer base in today’s industry, they’re not going to gravitate to a game like Eve as they do to games like the Sims.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Xeridian-Darkmoon/100000549499324 Xeridian Darkmoon

      FYI, Bioware Austin just laid off a bunch of their workers… It’s also an EA published game. Bioware hates Lucas Arts (If anyone remembers what they said after making KOTOR). Jim, I’d find a different train to ride my fellow gamer and soon. Hey, have you heard about this new game coming out called Guild Wars 2? :P

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

         Thanks, but no thanks. Tried it and didn’t like it. Sticking with GW1 and SWTOR until the servers shut down. Thanks for the advice anyway, but I follow my own path – it’s worked out pretty well so far, :D

        • http://twitter.com/Kushinagi Michael Floyd

          You get a fist bump, my good sir. TOR isn’t dead *puts on thick-rimmed glasses* It’s not not mainstream anymore.

    • http://twitter.com/Jayeluu Jason Winter

      Good point, Jim… I did somewhat contradict myself there, but I don’t know that it’s completely accurate to say that Eve would be less successful because of having more casual players.

      I think the number of hardcore players has remained more or less the same over the past decade — they’ve just been surpassed, if not overwhelmed, by the casuals. The difference *might* be that, today, with everything that’s happened over the past 10 years to gaming and MMOs in general, that CCP might expect Eve to draw in 1 million+ players, and in that way, they’d probably be screwed.

      • Jay

         Nice follow up, Jason.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

        I would agree with that. I think the expectations that companies and gamers have now really determine whether a game has long-term potential. SWTOR is the perfect example of that.

  • Old Ben

    > I use vgchartz to prove to people what a bunch of liars BW are…

    So you use a site with demonstrably incorrect data to prove some irrelevant point? Well, I guess it’s your time, so you can do whatever you want…

    • testguy111

       nice taking things out of context. well done

      how about a full quote? too afraid?

      you very well know I was not even disagreeing, merely pointing out somehing about digital sales, which are, AS I SAID IN THE NEXT PART OF MY POST which you conveniently did not quote, not tracked by vgchartz.

      and vgchartz is accurate, at least sufficiently, when it comes to RETAIL SALES.
      ————————-

      this little episode proves that you are a liar and like to spin facts around and quote out of context.

      well done ruining your reputation
      ————————-

      -

      the full quote so people can see how much you twist what I said. I was IN AGREEMENT with your point and you make it look like I was telling the opposite of what I said

      you said that vgchartz was unreliable due to digital sales not included.

      I answered, quote:


      I use vgchartz to prove to people what a bunch of liars BW are…

      SWTOR retail sales are at 2.33 million, and as you said, this does NOT include digital.

      yet, they only had 1.3 m subs 3 months ago…

      they could have sold 1 or 2 million digital, who knows…

      “we’ve only lost 400k subs”  yeah, right

      so why the spin??

      • Old Ben

        > how about a full quote? too afraid?

        What would be the point of a full quote? Make the exact same text appear twice on the page? The point of quoting is to make it clear which part one is replying to. In the case of your message, I was replying to the part where you say “I use [x] to prove [something]” when my message was precisely about how [x] is a totally unreliable source. 

        >  I was IN AGREEMENT with your point

        If you think that, then clearly you didn’t understand what my point was. 

        > what a bunch of liars BW are
        > this little episode proves that you are a liar
        > well done ruining your reputation
        > foam foam rage rage CAPS CAPS

        You _really_ need to take your pills…

  • Old Ben

    > You can thank them and LA for killing one of the best RPG companies ever.

    I assume you’re talking about Origin (makers of Ultima, not the Steam clone). The only way BioWare could be considered “one of the best RPG companies ever” is if you limited the comparison to “companies called BioWare”. :-P

    • pandora005

      Dragon Age was pretty epic (the first one) and all the Neverwinter Nights ones were good for what was available at the time, all of them RPGs. Neverwinter Nights even had a very open modding capability with tons of stuff made by the community … something which Diablo 3 totally lacks for instance.

      • Old Ben

        Diablo is not and has never really been a RPG. Even calling it an “Action RPG” is stretching it. There’s very little interaction with NPCs, no branching dialog, and no world simulation. It’s really just a dungeon crawler (which follows very similar mechanics to a shoot’em’up – kill everything that moves and pick up or buy upgrades).

        Neverwinter Nights (and Baldur’s Gate before it) was a step backward compared to other RPGs of the time. Completely static NPCs, linear stories, nonsensical world (ex., in NwN you’d find gold coins inside crates all over the place – even when there was a beggar sitting next to the crate), etc..

        Yes, there were some good fan-made maps for NwN (including some remakes of parts of older Ultima games), but even those were often crippled by how static everything in that engine was.

        The RPG genre used to be defined by freedom of choice, complex interaction with NPCs and a consistent world simulation. 

        After Diablo and NwN, “RPG” seems to have been redefined to be “any game where you keep getting new clothes”.

        • Jay

           Not trying to start anything, I’m just curious what games you consider good RPGs? Let’s say late mid to late 90s through today… Just curious about your taste in gaming. I agree Bioware has gotten a bit too much praise from the west regarding the RPG genre.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

             I think part of this issue is coming to a consensus of what an “RPG” is. I would consider the games mentioned above RPGs in the sense that you are “playing a role” i.e. taking on the persona of an alter-ego in a different world. When I think of RPG, I base it on my days of the Pencil and Paper D&D games from my youth, and exploring dungeons as an 11th Level Illusionist with my buds. After that, we moved into the CRPG with Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder which are more akin to Diablo and Bauldar’s Gate.

            Technically, you can RPG in any game that puts you in control of a specific character or groups of characters (like an FPS). Likewise, I think that the kind of design Old Ben talks about is not strictly an RPG type of design, you could conceivably to it in any genre. In the sense that he’s talking about, I don’t know if there’s any game that could qualify as an RPG that isn’t one of the full sandbox type of games like Eve or SWG.

          • Jay

            I agree with your basic definition of Role Playing Game. I personally found my RPG roots in the days of Final Fantasy VII and then went on to try older ones like Chrono Trigger and Baldur’s Gate. However, Chrono Trigger and Baldur’s Gate are 2 totally different experiences. For me, when it comes to defining an RPG, the story has to be the stand out feature of the game… How you relate to the characters and the role you’re playing have to have a great impact on your experience.

            With that said, I consider old JRPGs much closer to my definition of a true RPG than any Bioware game. I loved  Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2, but they just seemed too… I don’t want to say linear, but maybe static. Without that depth and characterization, I just can’t give them my RPG golden seal. To be honest, I haven’t seen a truly great RPG in years. I’d like to blame COD’s and WOW’s success for forcing game “companies” to produce shallow action centric games trying to emulate what’s popular for sales.

          • pandora005

            A good RPG needs a compelling story, an interesting setting, a challenging combat system and an interesting way to evolve/grow/level/customize your own character in the course of that story.

            The world has to feel alive to make it good and Skyrim for example fails miserably in this category with the court mage reminding me – the archmage of the college – to go to the college. The least that could be done was to make the world feel “dead” in the interactions with the generic NPCs; the first “arrow to the knee” speech of a guard in Skyrim was funny, the next 3-4 might be as well, but after that its just annoying. It would be better to have no NPC speches instead.

            The graphics of the game are a personal choice thing IMO, but the above is probably a general requirement. I for one dont really like those Asian MMOs with their overtly sexual character design OR ridiculous fantasy armor designs with spikes everywhere or tusks which cover your mouth (which make eating anything bigger kinda impossible). The trolls in WoW for example only survive because they arent eating like the rest of the races but smoke certain weeds instead (my own lore for explaining those tusks), but certain horn designs for Charr in GW2 have the same problem. [Nature doesnt work that way and even in a magical world it wouldnt waste anything by creating something that hinders the individual ... they would just die out. Sure the awkward horns could "phase through" stuff so you could still eat your big joint of meat and take a bite, but what is the point of those horns again if not to clash with other "bulls" and rend their flesh?]

            One really important part to make a game good – speaking from a pnp RPG perspective – is that the classes have to FEEL DIFFERENT. Example: In every edition of D&D before 4e the wizard had only a few spells each day, BUT was able to do a lot with those few; the fighter on the other hand didnt have that many different abilities but made up for it by a significantly higher amount of hit points. Burst power vs. sustained power. In 4e that all changed and every class got the same systematic and “balanced” (ewww: How do you balance an apple and an orange against each other?) set of powers following the same rules and so on. Changing your class basically means you are doing the same things you did before and only the color changed. Booooring! The classes in GW2 are structured in a similar fashion and all of them have special stuff (cross profession combos, boons, conditions and general mechanics), thus I see a danger of the classes being “too similar”, but so far the developers have given each of them a really nice unique feel through the F1-F4 skills. WoW did start with significantly different classes too, but after a while unique skills of one class were given to all classes (mana regeneration skills for example) and thus the classes didnt really feel that unique anymore and giving Paladins/Shammies to the other sides didnt help either to preserve that feeling of uniqueness.

            Combat is important for an RPG, but to keep it challenging it is sometimes a good idea to have players stuck with their choices. Due to countless whining and some bad design, games have begun to allow players to switch their builds … either on the fly OR after visiting a trainer and paying some money. Too much freedom there does reduce the challenge, because you are always facing a big encounter with the optimal build and thus the rewarding excitement wont be as big when you beat the encounter compared to beating it when you know you werent the optimal class/spec for the job but managed anyways. Risk vs. reward! Sadly GW2 has a lot of freedom here and we will have to wait and see if the challenge is still big enough to feel big excitement after beating the level 80 encounters.

            So I see a few pitfalls on the road ahead for GW2, but its too early to tell if they missed them or if they solved the problems by doing something completely different and offering new things instead.

          • Jay

             I agree with a lot of what you said. Not going to break it down, but we’re along the same lines of thinking… Some things come down to personal taste, but “RPGs” should meet a certain criteria.

          • Old Ben

            Ultima games (especially the Guardian series – Ultima 7 parts 1 and 2 and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2) were probably the best RPGs ever (huge dialog trees with actual consequences, adult themes, great writing, NPCs that followed believable routines and reacted to the world around them, etc.).

            Elder Scrolls games were conceptually quite good up to Morrowind. Oblivion had far too much hand-holding for my taste, though (and introduced that damn arrow – people didn’t explore or pay attention to the world around them anymore, they just followed the arrow). Skyrim feels slightly more “sandboxy” than Oblivion (and rewards players for exploring) but the interface is just an instrument of torture.

            System Shock and System Shock 2 were great at creating a believable world and atmosphere, although they didn’t have much NPC interaction. In a way they’re more like “survival horror” games.

            The Lands of Lore series had some interesting ideas, but the story was too linear (probably because this was as a time when games “had” to have full-motion video, but there was no room on a CD to have dozens of choices), and some of the puzzles didn’t make any sense.

            I’m sure I’m forgetting several games, but to me the key moments are Ultima 7 (believable world, complex NPC interaction, almost no focus on “stats”) and then Diablo (all about combat and gear stats) and Baldur’s Gate (decent writing, but completely static NPCs, no attempt to create a world simulation, each area was just like a painting).

            IMO, those two things (focus on combat and stats – i.e., “what you wear” – and the static world) are what killed the RPG genre (or at least dumbed it down to a shadow of its former self). And, sadly, MMORPGs followed that trend.

            I think GW2 is probably the biggest hope, at this point, in terms of creating a consistent and dynamic world, but I think NPC interaction and behavior will still be more primitive than what we had in 1992.

          • Jay

             I notice you didn’t mention any Final Fantasy games, which are regarded highly amongst the RPG community. I agree with most of your qualifications for an “RPG” though… Haven’t seen a great one in a long time.

            I feel the same way about GW2, which is weird because I wouldn’t expect to get that from an MMO, but I really got immersed in ANet’s personal stories and the world they built around them.

          • Old Ben

            I haven’t played any FF games extensively. I started a couple, but I always felt like the game was trying to tell me my story instead of letting me write it (or at least discover it). 

            I absolutely hate the personal stories in GW2, and (regardless of the quality – or lack of quality – of the plots), I think it’s pretty obvious that they clash with the rest of the game. The personal story treats you like a VIP since the start, while the open-world NPCs expect you to feed cows. It feels like you’re playing two completely different characters; one in the personal story (that hangs around with the faction leaders, creates and wields super weapons at level 10, etc.), and another in the “real world” (that is trying to survive and build a reputation, learn how to use basic weapons, etc.).

            In these days of cutscenes and voice-overs, it’s tricky for developers to have the huge number of dialog and story branches that a game like Ultima 7 had, but it would still be possible to do (a lot) better than GW2′s personal stories. 

            I actually prefer TSW’s approach (where your character doesn’t talk at all) – I can’t tell or ask NPCs what I choose, but at least my character isn’t saying things that are the exact opposite of what I’d want them to say. Watching the personal story cutscenes on my GW2 characters just made me want to punch them. As if the Ken & Barbie look of humans wasn’t annoying enough. :-P

            Still, I think the dynamic event chains are a long overdue mechanic that will make people (and other developers) pay attention to the importance of a “living world” in an RPG (be it single-player or MMO). And the combat is pretty fun (although a bit chaotic, and with
            poor AI, but hopefully that will improve).

            P.S. – Going back to Diablo, there is one thing in the original which I found brilliant, and I think other games (especially RPGs) should adopt: Enemy-based experience. In Diablo, whenever you met a new type of enemy, you missed a lot and did very low damage. As you killed more enemies of that type (ex., more skeletons), you became better at fighting skeletons. I think that makes perfect sense (a lot more than having an abstract “level” for your character), and gives characters more depth. Of course, Diablo was too linear to make the most out of this mechanic, but it’s still a great idea (logical, intuitive, with a practical effect on gameplay).

          • pandora005

            I kinda agree with you on the “personal story VIP” judgement, but kids these days want to start as a hero and not work their ass off to become one (like Hercules and his 12 tasks). Especially the “customary big thing” we get to kill at level 1 is a tad silly since there are LOTS of other players around doing it at the same time and they survive the fight just as I do.

            The dynamic event chains is something I have wanted since they changed Kithicor Forest in EQ1 from a relatively harmless level 25 zone to something extremely deadly and level 50. Thats when I had the idea about having “orc invasions to be fought off” first. It is loooooonnngggg overdue and I keep wondering why Blizzard didnt introduce something like this into WoW … since they have had the phasing technology to change a whole zone ever since Cataclysm.

          • Old Ben

            > but kids these days want to start as a hero
            > and not work their ass off to become one

            I’m the one called Old Ben but you seem to be the one who has a problem with “kids these days”. :-P

            Kids didn’t write the stories, some (bad) writer at Arena Net did. If he or she never learned the fundamental principles of a heroic narrative, that’s hardly the fault of “kids these days”. 

            And, IIRC, polls show that the average age of PC gamers these days is over 35. So if Arena Net is aiming GW2 at six year olds, that seems like a shot in the foot (pre-teens aren’t very likely to be buying stuff from the gem shop, are they?).

            Fighting a big thing at the start (or soon after the start) is fine (especially if you realize that you would never be able to beat it alone – and that serves as an incentive to level up your character, learn new skills, etc.). The problem is how the personal story treats you as “the special one”. Not only do you _know_ that you’re not “special” (because you had very little influence on the fight), but you also know that you’re not “the one”, because there were a bunch of other players there. It just makes you feel that your character is a fraud.

            In fact, it’s not even very clear what you’re fighting, or why. Some hands that come out of the ground and just stay there? How are they a threat to anyone? Looks like an art installation to me. And the big worm you fight as a norn is described as having been captured, so how exactly are you a “hero” after killing a captive animal? Who wrote that crap? 

            World of Warcraft’s Death Knight introduction does a pretty good job of making you feel like you’re taking part in an epic event (the Death Knight rebellion against the Lich King) without contradicting the game world. Of course, WoW is crap in just about every other aspect (completely lost its way after the change in lead designer, during WotLK’s development), but at least they understood that they couldn’t treat players’ personal stories as something completely independent from the game world.

          • pandora005

            First of Pandora is older than any “old Ben” I would say, hehe.

            Secondly I think the stupid Arenanet writer is just trying to satisfy the demand instead of educating the kids. They are starting the story with a “big bang” of you SUCCEEDING in defeating a big monster and being one of very few who survive. This is a bad design and as you said doesnt help you start of the “theme of the campaign”. It certainly doesnt connect to any personal story whatsoever and just serves as “street cred” for being one of the tough dudes that were able to beat up something big.

            P.S.: I really HATE this stupid comment section which gets narrower and narrower with every level of comment until its UNUSEABLE!! PLEASE FIX!!! (We do have monitors of more than 600×800 resolutions nowadays …)

          • Old Ben

            Meh, it’s not really Arena Net’s role to “educate the kids” (the average age of PC gamers is over 35 anyway, so it’s too late to educate most of them). But it is their role to entertain the players, and GW2′s personal stories seem too cheesy to entertain anyone over 6. 

            The strange thing is that the NPC dialog in the open world is pretty well written, which makes it really weird that the personal stories are so weak. Maybe they were written by the company president’s son or something, and no one dared to criticize.

          • Jay

             We still have to keep in mind this is an MMO with a lot that has to go into it. If it was single player, then I could be more strict, but for an MMO, I feel GW2′s fantasy heroic story fits well (comparatively speaking). Actually makes you feel like you’re a part of something going on, instead of just placed in the world like WOW.

            I think TSW should’ve been a single player game, maybe that’s why you prefer the story… It’s lacking in other MMO areas like combat. However, with each new release were getting closer… Everyone has a different taste, a lot is based on opinion, but I found GW2 to be the closest thing to my ideal MMO thus far.

            I’d love Devil May Cry style combat, with deep RPG customization, story, and progression in a no subscription MMO, but how realistic is that in this day and age? Common tech just isn’t there yet.

          • Old Ben

            > I feel GW2′s fantasy heroic story fits well 

            The problem is that it _isn’t_ a “heroic story”. There are some pretty well defined literary ingredients that go into a heroic narrative, and GW2 doesn’t have any of that. You can’t build a heroic narrative simply by starting with “you are a hero”. That’s like starting a murder mystery with “the butler did it”. 

            You need to make the protagonist go through certain steps to grant him the “hero” status (even more so in a game, where the player should _feel_ heroic). In GW2 there’s no sense of accomplishment. It’s not heroic and doesn’t even feel very personal (because you make very few decisions during the game; the important decisions are all made before you even start, during character creation).

            > instead of just placed in the world like WOW.

            If you actually read WoW’s starting quests (especially for DKs, goblins and worgen), you’ll see there’s plenty of context for your presence in the world. I think the goblin and worgen starting quests are too long and too linear (and they’re unskippable, which was a terrible decision), but the DK introduction is quite well done.

            > I think TSW should’ve been a single player game,
            > maybe that’s why you prefer the story…

            GW2′s “personal story” is also a single-player game. I prefer the writing in TSW because it’s better in every way (more interesting, more believable, more mature, more consistent, etc.).

            > It’s lacking in other MMO areas like combat. 

            How is combat “an MMO area” in TSW? Could you even fight other players in the beta? I guess you could play co-op, but the issues with combat were the same as when playing alone.

            TSW has pretty good storytelling (made harder by the fact that they’re not in some medieval fantasy universe – they need to make the story consistent with the game _and_ with the real world), pretty good set design, and everything else sucks. The quests are boring, linear and repetitive, the combat is primitive, the animation looks mechanical, etc.. 

            I think GW2 is far more important for the future of MMORPGs and has the potential to be a much better game overall. But that doesn’t mean the personal stories aren’t terrible. I’m not even talking about them in the gameplay sense (there isn’t much “gameplay” involved, anyway, the personal story is basically impossible to fail). I mean just from a narrative point of view. There’s more depth in some books for toddlers.

            And while that poor narrative would be acceptable (or at least understandable) if it meshed well with the game world, the fact is that the personal stories in GW2 feel completely detached from (and often contradict) that game world. It’s as if you’re playing two different characters. One hangs around with faction leaders, the other collects eggs.

            If they weren’t trying to make the personal story mesh well with the open world, they could at least have given us a decent narrative. And if they couldn’t come up with a decent narrative, they could at least have made the story mesh well with the open world.

            As they stand, the personal stories in GW2 bring down the overall quality and consistency of the game. The only good thing about them is that they can be skipped.

            > but how realistic is that in this day and age?
            > Common tech just isn’t there yet.

            The “tech” has been there for decades. But game developers have been too busy copying each other and making games about upgrading your wardrobe.

          • Jay

             Keep in mind that a lot of what you say is based on opinion… Not right and wrong, but just what you prefer. You could only see at max 20 levels of personal story, so to judge it in such a manner is a bit presumptuous.  When I speak of WOW, I can’t just only look at the parts I liked, such as the Worgen story, because I played it from the beginning; just like I am with GW2.

            MMORPG combat is different from other games because of the mass multiplayer environment they are built upon. Combat is a major part of MMORPGs, whether it’s awful (IMO) like TSW or not, it’s still a major part of the game. Sure, anything and everything could theoretically be *better*, but I like to keep a realistic mindset. The tech you speak of is not “common” like I said, and since I know there are people all over the world that live different lifestyles than myself, I like to keep them in mind. As a business man, I understand the basic principle of catering to a larger audience for a profit, so I have an open mind about certain choices. I also feel game companies should retain their artistic integrity while doing so, but if they’re not financially successful, then their true vision may not even see the light of day… Such is the case with GW2, where as ANet wanted to put many of the features of the game into GW1, but they had to keep realistic goals with their first project.

            Looks as though their reasonable planning is turning out well for them. I’m glad they’re getting their chance to reap great benefits from what they have sown. No game is perfect, but for my taste in MMOs (and many others it seems), GW2 hits its marks where it counts. It would be nice to live in a perfect world though, wouldn’t it? :)

          • Old Ben

            > Keep in mind that a lot of what
            > you say is based on opinion…

            Not really. The way GW2 makes you into a VIP after a single impossible-to-fail quest is an objective fact. And whatever happens in the personal stories after level 20 (which I have no intention of discovering – unless the Asura and Sylvari stories are a lot better right from the start) won’t change that. By then the damage has already been done.

            Likewise, the fact that your character is treated very differently in the “personal story” quests, when compared to the game’s persistent world, is also not a matter of opinion.

            Now, whether those flaws are enough to make someone avoid the personal story or not, that is an individual decision, of course.

            Personally, I don’t see the point of going through a weak narrative that doesn’t even mesh properly with the rest of the game, when I can use the same time to explore the open world (or just read a decent book, if I want a story).

            > When I speak of WOW, I can’t
            > just only look at the parts I liked

            Huh? You don’t have the ability to distinguish different aspects of a game? Aren’t you able to say “I liked the story but I hated the menu icons” or “I liked combat but hated the voice acting”, or whatever…?

            Well, I don’t have any difficulty doing that, and I think the DK introduction in WoW was pretty well done, although I dislike many (in fact, most) changes introduced with and after WotLK.

            Likewise, I don’t have any problem distinguishing GW2′s cheesy personal stories from the interesting world outside those stories.

          • Jay

             The same way you only pick apart certain aspects of my comments then critique them as you please, seems to be the same way you criticize games… I look at the entire product, not just nitpick. So no, I will not ignore what WOW was when it first began, because I prefer not to choose ignorance. I agree if you want a really great story, you’d probably be better off reading a book (tastes still vary). How can you say your personal story treats you very differently though, when you haven’t even seen the higher level zones? Like I said in my reply before this one, it seems presumptuous. The story isn’t perfect, you don’t like it, that’s kool…

            I’m glad you feel so strongly about your opinions, and I do enjoy reading some of your comments. I think I’ve said all I have to say on this topic though, because the rest remains to be seen after the launch of the game.

          • Old Ben

            > you only pick apart certain aspects

            Of course I pick which aspects to criticize. Why would I criticize the parts that I like…? 

            > I look at the entire product

            Well, then you can never help to _improve_ a product. If you can’t criticize individual aspects, all you can do is say “I like it” or “I don’t like it”. Which isn’t very useful. The point of the beta test (and user feedback) is to test, analyze, criticize and help Arena Net improve each aspect of the game. If you can’t distinguish between story, animation, interface, class balance, etc., how can you provide useful feedback?

            > How can you say your personal story
            > treats you very differently though, when
            > you haven’t even seen the higher level
            > zones?

            Huh…? What does it have to do with higher level zones? Play through the level 1-15 story and compare that to the level 1-15 open world. It should be pretty obvious that your character is treated in a completely different way in each of those contexts (hanging around with faction leaders vs. feeding cows).

          • Jay

            Here’s an example of what you seem to do…

            I say something like:
            “Yesterday I was naked while taking a shower.”

            You respond with:
            >Yesterday I was naked

            Huh…? You’re weird for walking around naked.

            It’s easy to pick apart sentences and make something look wrong. If you actually consider the entire post (or entire game), you may not have such a negative outlook.

            I like red, so I may tell someone to wear more red because I like it. Where as you may wait until someone wears blue and tell them that you hate it… Before you respond, actually think about the things I’ve just wrote. It’s the old glass half full or glass half empty kind of thing.

            You want to help improve the game? Great, ArenaNet loves feedback during their Beta tests in game and in the forums. Jon Peters told me he could use some help in the forums actually, because they like to read everything, and he found a lot of negative feedback are from a lot of people who are just having trouble learning the ins and outs GW2. Comment sections on game sites like GBTV are great because people get to just throw around their thoughts and opinions somewhat freely just for fun.

          • Old Ben

            > You respond with:
            > “Yesterday I was naked”

            Instead of a straw man argument (i.e., making up an “example” that doesn’t make any sense), why don’t you give an actual example of some misquote? If that’s something I keep doing, then it should be trivial for you to quote an actual example, instead of making stuff up, no?

            > You want to help improve the
            > game? Great, ArenaNet loves
            > feedback during their Beta tests
            > in game and in the forums.

            Really? Don’t say! That’s a weight off my shoulders, considering I posted about 50 messages and submitted tome 20 bug reports in-game. I thought they hated that kind of thing, but now that you tell me they actually want feedback, I feel much better… :-P

            > If you actually consider the entire
            > post (or entire game), you may not
            > have such a negative outlook.

            How exactly do I have “such a negative outlook”…? Haven’t I written (again and again) that I think GW2 has the potential to be one of the most important MMORPGs ever? Haven’t I said that it has a really interesting and polished game world? That combat is fun and the dynamic events give it a lot of longevity?

            But I’m not blind, and I can still see the game’s flaws (like the scaling bugs in some events, the imbalance in survivability between ranged and melee weapons, and – especially – the cheesy and inconsistent personal stories). 

            You seem to be confusing “having a very negative outlook” with “not being a blind fanboy”.

  • QSatu

    Every game needs a personal army of trolls bashing it every single day b/c apparently they are so interested in the game they can’t stand not joining the discussion. gW2 is no different =] Ignore them. Most of the time the moment people stop paying attention to them they stop posting.

    • pandora005

      I am sorry, but this recent trend of finding trolls funny and thinking of them as necessary really annoys me. You know they are “a new trend” (as new as the internet) and they are “the bottom of the scale”. Thus it is pretty clear they are doing the opposite of “improving our societies to be something better” … thus trolls are NOT COOL and need to be gotten rid of.

      • QSatu

         Did I say it is ok there to be trolls? When you keep “discussing” with the trolls you are doing more harm to the community than good. Simply b/c it extends useless discussions.

        • pandora005

          One of the evil parts about a troll is that he is hard to distinguish from someone who “hasnt though things through”. Sharukos argument below in this section (the comment about bad timing to release GW2 because sooo many other pvp games and patches are coming out) could just be a stupid quick comment as well as a trolling comment. Such not-so-smart-comments can be discussed over and the poster be made to see reason … which is irrelevant to a troll.

          After this section of comments Sharuko will be put into the box labeled “idiotic troll”, but he wont have a sticker attached to his posts. In any case it will be easy enough to sign up using a different ID and keep on posting under a new name. Thus if we dont post because some things said are “bordering uselessness” we start to censor ourselves and that isnt a good thing on a forum which exists so people can discuss things.

  • Spammerbam

    Sharuko comments. They’re classic.

    I nominate, Sharuko, the Official Troll of 2012.

    • Jack_Sisco

       Sharuko, Official Douchebag Troll of 2012-2013?*

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Johnson/1353890372 Michael Johnson

    Sharuko gives me the douche chills

  • DoctorOverlord

    I think MMO players have been ready to move on for few years but the new products made by old-school MMO devs have failed to stand up in a market where players are finally demanding quality.      The tradition of MMOs before WoW was to release shoddy, bug-filled games and devs like Garriott, Jacobs and the rest learned that will no longer be tolerated anymore than the tedious, boring and flawed game mechanics which their new attempts and previous successes also had in common.

    Games like WAR and AOC had very positive initial sales/subs showing that there was a good amount of interest in an alternative for WoW at the time.   If those games had simply been better (both in bugs and basic design), they could have grown.     They weren’t so they didn’t.  

    Perhaps the market is better for GW2 than it was a few years ago and perhaps the multiple failures enhances the attention the game is getting, but I think gamers have been ready for a change in the MMO genre not just since WoW came out but since MMOs started.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      I disagree.  While I agree there is a significant player population jumping from MMO to MMO looking for the next MMO.  I don’t think WoW players are just waiting for that next generation MMO.  It’s going to take multiple significant blunders on Blizzards part to drive away their player base.  When WoW finally collapses, I think the majority of players will simply stop playing MMOs.   

      • DoctorOverlord

        That’s a sad thought.    After all those years of MMOs being a niche market, seeing them revert back into that once WoW runs its course would be very depressing.   It would be as if nothing was learned at all from the evolution we are witnessing.  

        Although the current definition of MMOs is constantly changing.   Games like DOTA seem to stretch the definition as do new efforts like DayZ/ARMA.   I’d like to think that after experiencing massive multiplayer gameplay that people will want to continue to take part in it.  

        Of course, this will require developers to make MMO games (however they are defined) that people actually want to play.    Maybe I’m bring optimistic, but I like to think that some (not all) will rise and achieve that. 

  • Revanhavoc

    Jason sure knows how to bring out the ‘opinions’ in us (euphemism for flames, trolls, failed attempts at humorous sarcasm, and of course the occasional totally well thought through, not at all schizophrenic or nonsensical, comment by Revanhavoc.)

    In fact, I think most of the people in this comment section posting so many times are just jealous that they aren’t as famous as me and havoc are in these comments sections. I mean, it is pointless to try and live up to the inspirational, near poetic, sentences that I weave together. (And me too, right?) No.

    Another thing I think people need to learn how to do is turn up the music.

    (That’s not what he meant to say, what he meant to say was that some of YOU people need to
    learn that if you meet someone who in no way will ever be convinced to share in an opinion, such as about the dominance and messianic properties of a certain game, ala GW2, that doesn’t make the stubborn person and their opinion automatically invalid or solely in existence to annoy your life.)

    Ah, the wisdom conveyed to the flock of Gannonites – how lucky you all are to be graced with our presence.

    On behalf of the Gannon we bid you adieu.

    Sincerely yours,

    Revanhavoc

    • Jay

       You’re a strange person, but I like the way you think…

  • Aishirami

    I will never understand why everyone will attack another’s opinions with personal statements. Especially the ones about “Oh you must have no life since you’re on here commenting so much.” Ok, so who cares if he has a life or not? He is talking about the game, not about who’s life is less interesting. Anyone on this site investing their time to write is in the same situation he is in, myself included. And those statements about him wanting attention: it is as true as it is for anyone replying to him, because you will be waiting for his reply as much he will be waiting for yours. Just because his statements go against everyone else’s, does not mean they don’t have some truth in them.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QKLPUWK6UHJPU4QR6HVBBAXYZA e k

      Pfft. It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be. If someone like Sharuko is constantly provoking people with his constant hate towards a game it’s not a discussion. It’s never been a discussion because he’s never conceded any positive points about the game. And if he hates the game that much then why is he here other than to provoke? So yes, he should get a life if all he’s doing is spouting negativity and provoking fights. 

      Stop trying to make it sound like people are picking on him simply because his opinions are different. That’s completely dishonest or you’re just not paying attention.

      • Sharuko

        The login screen music in GW2 is good.  It isn’t “provoking”, I specifically responded to Jason’s video saying it was a wrong time to release GW2.  Do you want me to say it is the right time, if it isn’t?

        TESO just took away the spotlight from GW2 completely after and during E3, now everyone is talking about TESO and a select few about GW2.  And that game isn’t even coming out during GW2 release frame like the games I mentioned.

        • Sukh Bhatti

          Awwwwwwww Yeaaaaaaa Sharuko with another one!!!!

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PG4DRLIEDYPSF3YKJW6ZW7UVYM aj

             Hell yeah, Sharuko always brings the flavor in ya ear.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Johnson/1353890372 Michael Johnson

          No one cares about TESO.

          Everyone who knows what the game play of TESO is has been disappointed.

          It’s possibly the most negatively received MMO in history

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            That is still the point.  TESO has generated some buzz, agreed alot of it negative.  But still buzz.

            Within my WoW guild (they know I follow other MMOs), I even had someone ask me about the TESO MMO’s.  I was shocked. GW2 hasn’t generated a peep out of my guild, but TESO had a couple of players talking.  

            On a side note, got a few people to try out SWTOR, but it didn’t stick with anyone.  

        • Jay

           LOL ESO is getting terrible reception… Cmon Sharuko, you can do better than this…

          You were right about the GW2 login screen music though. :)

        • Chris Rushton

          “TESO just took away the spotlight from GW2 completely after and during E3″

          E3 is next week >_> good job on dat research.

        • Razor4884

          Make a note that TESO is using MANY of the ideas that originated from GW2. Just saying.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

        sharuko does this shit on about ten other websites day in and day out. he’s stupid enough to use the same name too.  he’s a troll, nothing more.

      • Aishirami

        While what you’re saying has clear value in it, I feel you lost the whole point of my post. What you are commenting on is in response to the last sentence in my comment. The main point of my comment was the rest that you didn’t see the need to value. I come to this conclusion, because you didn’t comment on it at all. Most of what Sharuko is saying is that the game isn’t as good as everyone says it is. And somehow, by him talking about a game, many people see it as a personal attack, and attack him with personal statements. Really, nothing he has said should have given anyone the proper grounds to attack him with personal statements. And everyone only sees him as being the bad one.

  • Sharuko

    I am done arguing with the trolls, but I called in in January 2011 when GW2 fans said we would see a 2011 release I told them you would be luck to see it in 2012:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/general-discussion/43987-wow-awesome-game-sucks-19.html#post696353 

    I knew GW2 was similar to Warhammer Online back then and no one believed it.  Fine you can be in denial, but when launch happens I will be right again.

  • Razor4884

    Now, the only question is: when will it be ready? Because I want to play this game so f***ing bad.

    • pandora005

      The question should rather be: What can we do to speed up the process of finishing the game design and improve the quality as much as possible?

      It will be read when its done and games released before they are done just plainly suck more than playing a month or two later. As Lorien said: “Patience is also a weapon when used properly.”

      • Razor4884

        I agree completely.

  • Ariantha

    Peoples biggest issue with all the other games that have been released and then failed is that they weren’t polished enough in all aspects of the game for it to be worth shifting.  For Example Warhammer Online was really bad outside the starting areas.  The amount of time it’s taken Arenanet to make GW2 and then release it is making people hopeful this game will be more polished outside the areas we see during beta/publicity

  • http://twitter.com/FabioPizzini Fabio Pizzini

    Over Hyped game, that will blow at the release date, like old Gw1.

    Maybe if they undestand to change the wswsws listening players something still good will come!

    • Eric Hathaway

      ArenaNet is the absolute finest example of a company that actually LISTENS to their community/players.

      If something is unpopular, they THOROUGHLY examine why and do their best to implement feedback as to what direction to pursue an effective and top-notch solution.
      Quite a blaring contrast with how Blizzard, for example, has shown a pretty severe lack of attention paid to their customers. Which, at its core is derived from the fact that Blizzard gets paid each month whether they release expansions that month or not. They make upwards of $100,000,000 per month, without having to develop anything new for quite some time. Each expansion sees hundreds of thousands of elements copied/pasted and re-skinned, with the majority of “new” content being comprised of gear with slightly higher stats to enable players to run through content that is effectively copied from any given previous expansion.
      It took Blizzard how many years (*cough* over seven) to implement Transmogrification, despite MILLIONS of players asking for the ability to change the way their gear looks?
      Guess what happens? ArenaNet, providing a shining example of player-driven design decisions announced Transmutation Stones, and which company finally decides to give players what they want? Blizzard; finally, after years of the feature being requested.
      There are so many examples of where things have been announced by ArenaNet for Guild Wars 2, and very soon afterward Blizzard tries their very best to keep up. Which, in all honesty isn’t surprising; Blizzard’s been implementing copy-cat ideas from pretty much everything and everyone for a long time now, it’s just their style. And in all honesty, is what is often necessary to stay in the game: offer what your competition offers.

      The key difference to note here is that ArenaNet pays attention to its fans/player-base. They innovate and defy existing convention; break the mold.Perhaps even the very best part of what ArenaNet has been able to accomplish is the simple, beautiful fact that almost everyone who is unable to appreciate all this, will not play Guild Wars 2. Much to the pleasure of the rest of us who seek an engaging and rewarding experience, which is found in utter abundance with Guild Wars 2.Thank you, ArenaNet. Thank you.

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