What Is The Incentive To Keep Playing Guild Wars 2 At Level 80?

Written by: (@richieprocopio) | July 18, 2012 11:19 am

130 Comments

Incentive is something that incites action. It’s the proverbial carrot that the cart driver dangles in front of the mule to make it walk.

In MMOs, incentive is the force that drives players to consume content and while many people enjoy similar things, these motivations are subjective. Game developers have the uphill task of appealing to the largest common denominator when they design content. Some players may be motivated by challenging dungeon encounters, while others have the itch to complete collections and earn titles. It could be the thrill of facing off against other skillful players in PvP or countless other factors that draws gamers to continually log hours in their MMO game world.

My last article sparked discussion regarding the differences between gear- and skill-based progression in MMOs. One of the common questions asked was: “If the most powerful gear is easy to get in Guild Wars 2, why should I continue to play it at level 80?” It’s a valid question and one I asked myself having spent the past seven years seeking increasingly powerful loot in World of Warcraft. After mulling it over and really analyzing what motivates me as a gamer, I’ve been able to undo the mental programming caused by a decade of playing gear-based MMOs. Basically, Morpheus from The Matrix sat me down and said, “Free your mind.” I took the red pill.star wars the old republic mmorpg mmorpg guild wars 2 mmorpg     No Gear, Why Play?

In a gear-based MMO, you are motivated to complete content that may yield loot to increase your power. If you want to be successful in more difficult dungeons and raids, your gear must meet certain requirements. But is getting your mitts all over a shiny new axe that grants you +10 strength truly the base incentive? For many gamers the desire to improve their equipment is based largely on their appetite for experiencing new content, not the stat increase itself. They want to defeat the nastiest bosses and collect the achievements they earn for doing so. They crave the titles that come with trouncing the most formidable dungeons and raids. And, of course, the allure of procuring rare items like the Multi-barreled Wand of Mega Death is ever-present. But is the prestige of owning such an artifact the +10 intelligence that it grants or the fact that it looks bad-ass and launches flaming skulls at your foes?

In Guild Wars 2, the power level plateaus once characters hit level 80 and it won’t be difficult for all players to nab the best gear from a statistical standpoint. If you want to stand out, however, you’ll have to work for it. Collecting special armor and weapons can be done in various ways: competing in structured PvP, gathering tokens from dungeon runs or crafting gear with rare components. For the extremely dedicated, ArenaNet has recently unveiled some details on acquiring legendary weapons from the Mystic Forge. These epic-looking items will show off your accomplishments to other players without making them requirements for experiencing content.

Why continue to play Guild Wars 2 at level 80? The answer will be different for everyone, but it’s summed up easily by saying: to have fun playing the game. Perhaps you want the satisfaction of beating all 25 explorable dungeon paths. Maybe you’re a crafting fanatic and strive to max out all eight disciplines on a single character. Other gamers are explorers and have a hankering to experience every vista, point of interest, renowned heart and jumping puzzle. There are alt-aholics who won’t be satisfied until they’ve played every profession and others who want to hang out with their friends and take out dynamic events. World vs. World is a never-ending siege battle and hardcore PvPers have an unlimited source of competition in the structured tournaments. The list goes on and on.

star wars the old republic mmorpg mmorpg guild wars 2 mmorpg     No Gear, Why Play?Why do we question incentive in MMOs and not in other games? Do you hear people say, “There’s no endgame in Battlefield 3.” People log hundreds of hours playing shooters, real-time strategy games, MOBAs and fighting games because it’s fun, not because they are trying to find a +10 shotgun! You might be able to unlock new skins, improve your win/loss ration or gain an achievement, but these are the same types of things you can work towards in Guild Wars 2. Most gamers will find the incentive to continue playing long after hitting level 80. ArenaNet proved that this structure worked seven years ago with Guild Wars 1 and they are about to put it to the test again.

To be fair, obtaining a new item that makes a perceivable difference in how powerful you are is enjoyable. Some people will crave the thrill they get when their floating damage numbers hit a new zenith. There will be players who prefer a game where their power level improves as they obtain new items. The great news about Guild Wars 2 is there is no subscription fee, so if anyone grows tired of the game, they can take a break, play other games, and come back when there are new things to do. When there’s a monthly subscription fee, gamers feel like they have to log in—otherwise they are wasting money. Similarly, the developers of subscription games feel pressured to stretch out content and keep players on the loot treadmill. Running dungeons repeatedly for currency, maximizing reputations, and doing daily quests are all techniques invented for this purpose.

This doesn’t mean that Guild Wars 2 is devoid of grinds. Exploring and completing every map in the game is sure going to have its share of tedium. If you want full sets of the dungeon armor, you better steel yourself for multiple explorable mode dungeon runs. I’m also quite sure nabbing one of those sparkly legendary weapons will test the tenacity of the most stalwart adventurer. The difference, however, is that these grinds are optional. Players aren’t required to suffer through them in order to experience content. There are no invisible walls surrounding your foes and no gear checks. It’s just you, your friends, and Tyria.

Have fun.

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This article was inspired by a video I made on the same topic. If you want to hear more of my thoughts on this topic, check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBHDgKGb4bw

What Is The Incentive To Keep Playing Guild Wars 2 At Level 80?

  • http://www.facebook.com/KyleDAJuza Kyle Juza

    you mean its an even playing field for PvP from lvl 1? I think that even beats SWTOR’s attempt to do PvP

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

      everything beats swtor’s pvp. even the secret world.

      • http://twitter.com/RichieProcopio Richie Procopio

        I actually quite enjoyed the SWTOR PvP in the 1-49 bracket.  Once you hit level 50 though and you get slaughtered because you don’t have expertise, it becomes a chore.

    • http://www.kaiketsu.enjin.com/ Corey “Crimzen”

      if you haven’t played GW2 pvp you’re missing out heh.

    • http://www.facebook.com/iordache.stefan.7 Iordache Stefan

      pretty much. there still is the fact that you need to know what each skill does and stuff… but statwise.. it is

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathon-Neff/100000415972248 Jonathon Neff

      Levels will play a huge role tho compared to SWTOR’s setup that they had. Even Field but you will have more at you use being level 30 vs a level 10 and the build you choose to do and how you stat/gear the toon will greatly change the game for each person, SWTOR was good in it’s idea but just couldn’t deliver it and it seems like already GW’s 2 has delivered the goods.

      • dawolv

         again, that’s WvW.
        In PvP your level and stats get boosted to max.
        Completely levelled, just like in GW1

        • Old Ben

          Your level (and stats) gets bumped up to 80 in both sPvP and WvW. The main difference is that in sPvP you also get a full set of level 80 gear and all you skills are unlocked.

          Basically, in WvW you’ll be like a level 80 character who never bothered to do skill challenges or obtain new gear after level 20 (or whatever your PvE level is), but your base stats (and trait points) will be the same as any level 80 character.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

    the lack of difference in item stats is grossly over exaggerated when people discuss this game. exotic gear is more powerful than a regular item of the same level, just not to the point where two characters of equal level feel like they’re ten levels apart.

    also the bonus stat distribution and unique equip effects come into play. 

    • Jay

      Exotic stat gear isn’t that hard to obtain though, and that’s the point. If you want the Explorable dungeon style exotic gear, that may be rough, but just attaining the stats is relatively easy. You can even get Exotic gear from the Mystic Forge… I much prefer the cosmetic rarity over any power advantage.

      You do bring up a good point about the stat distribution on gear, and that still leaves that carrot dangling for those Min/Max players like myself. I think ANet has come up with a really solid system that caters to the casual and hardcore alike.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

        there’s still an incentive to have it and the stat distribution is another layer that will be attractive based on how you want to play and build your character. 

  • Old Ben

    > What is the incentive to keep playing [anything]

    Sigh…

    If people need an _incentive_ for a leisure activity, they’re doing it wrong. There is no separate incentive. You do it if, when and _because_ you enjoy doing it. That’s the point.

    • Revanhavoc

      Except that from a game design perspective, when a company is attempting to develop a lasting product that will continue to pull in an extremely fickle audience, “keep playing our game cuz it’s fun” just won’t cut it.

      On top of that the extremely fickle audience has been shown through various releases, to be incredibly demanding.

      I just think it oversimplifies the consumer to disregard the idea of incentive and focus on other kinds of gratification.

      • Jay

         In some weird way… I agree with you both. ;)

      • Randall_Wolfcry

        BREAKING NEWS:  GEAR IS NOT CONTENT!

        GW2 will have content to keep it’s players interested. When people can’t find anything else to do, they will stop playing GW2. If ArenaNet wants people to give them more money, they create more content and sell it to them.

        Traditional MMOs oversimplify the customer by tricking them into thinking gear is content, and dangling the carrot so people pay $15/mo to have a second job grinding for gear.

        God you don’t even realize how much you’re calling the kettle black on this one, Revan…

      • Old Ben

        > “keep playing our game cuz it’s fun” just won’t cut it.

        People aren’t supposed to “keep playing a game” any more than they are supposed to “keep eating chocolate” or “keep watching football”. They’ll eventually want to eat something else and watch something else.

        If you’re trying to market and design your chocolate as the only thing people should spend the rest of their life eating, you’re fighting a losing battle (and will probably end up with a very bad chocolate and a client base composed of addicts).

        This kind of attitude (finding a separate “motivation” to keep people playing when they don’t enjoy the actual _gameplay_) is precisely what has been killing games, and MMOs in particular.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Good thing they don’t keep score in Golf and you can use any old clubs that you find.

      • Old Ben

        No idea what that is supposed to mean or how it relates to what I wrote.

        I’ve never seen anyone suggest that you should look for “incentives” to play golf if you find playing golf boring. When people who play golf for fun get bored, they stop playing and go do something else.

        Personally, I stopped playing golf in 1924 and haven’t run out of better things to do yet.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Smith/100000531128393 Ian Smith

           uh…. how old are you?  Good grief, you still have your mind?  Is this George Burns?  I knew it, I knew you didn’t die.  I mean, God can’t die, can he?

  • http://www.facebook.com/iordache.stefan.7 Iordache Stefan

    they’re talking about lvl 80. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/iordache.stefan.7 Iordache Stefan

    they’re talkin about lvl 80

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/WZ324KCWGCMJENR2ZFFTCK3QP4 Blaze

    I quit wow because that’s all it was, grind for the best gear, it gets boring after a while.  If you have no life and can play daily you will get the best gear.. but me i have a job and kids to feed so i can only play on weekends and usually at night.  I can’t be a committed loser like the rest of you nerds in the wow community are, so im glad Guild Wars 2 is taking this approach. 

    • Jay

       Lol I know plenty of people who play WoW with a job, wife, and kids. So although I see your point (and agree for the most part), I think it would’ve been better expressed without the name calling. I’m glad you have a job in this tough economy though, those kids gotta eat. :)

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      It’s pitiful behavior when you have to resort to insulting players of another game.  If you don’t enjoy WoW anymore, that fine. If you enjoy GW2 that’s fine as well. 

  • Draugmahl

    The gear grind usually on keeps people playing when there is nothing else interesting to do. 

    • Randall_Wolfcry

       Yes and it’s sad. If there’s nothing else to do in a game, people need to quit the game and find something else to play. If they keep investing their money in a dead game then that gives very little incentive to developers to come out with new, quality content.

      • dawolv

         It’s funny when you think about it:

        Theres nothing else to do, so I’ll just do stuff over and over again.
        And to make sure I’ll keep doing it over and over again I’m going to put down 15 bucks to remind myself to keep on playing.

        Others would just throw some cash at a steam sale and get a brand new game…

  • Brimstar

    Another fantastic article and point, thanks Richie. A much enjoyable read.
     

  • Jay

    I much rather rely on my skill than gear…

  • Ryan Weckbacher

    I just want cool gear. Nuff said. :)

  • http://twitter.com/crocodilius ryan phillips

    so the incentive is different looking items instead of powerful items?
    am i to assume the game is for metrosexuals and girls rather than conquerors?

    even games like LoL or dota2 i can, through “skill”, become more powerful than
    someone in a match. from what i’ve played in GW2 pvp it’s just a cluster fuck and,
    well….someone has to come out on top.

    that’s not to say it doesn’t have enjoyable aspects but not being able to
    out-gear someone in a supposed RPG blows, let’s not lie.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1260066056 Steven Diaz

      No, it’s more dependent on skill rather than gear and if you’ve ever played GW1 you’d understand the benefits of a system like that.  Grinding for more powerful items BLOWS, I don’t want to be forced to focus on a specific portion of the game just to compete in the others.

    • http://twitter.com/NitroGTX Nitro Industries

       Go play WoW

    • http://www.facebook.com/adam.michaud.9 Adam Michaud

      Guild Wars 2 PvP is a cluster fuck how exactly? Making an assumption with no backup information to prove it is easy to do. I’ve played it…I don’t see a cluster fuck. I see a match of skill. If you need a stat advantage to win…you don’t deserve to win. Thats like saying “hey lets give performance drugs to athletes who aren’t so good so we can win”.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Trying to attack a tower in WvW without siege engines is a cluster.   That is why its important being organized in WvW.

        • dawolv

           Well WvW is not what we refer to as PvP.
          Just like in a real war, WvW has more emphasis on group and resource management.

          Napoleon didn’t conquer half of Europe because that one guy under his command had the most awesommest club of slaying.
          And in the end he lost because he didn’t bring enough socks and gloves for the troups. Who knew winter in Russia could be so cold…

          REAL battles are technically clusterfucks (for the untrained eye at least), so as far as I’m concerned, they emulated it quite well

    • Jay

       I’m guessing when you say “pvp”, you mean WvW… Structured PVP is 5 v 5 unless you do custom matches. Have you seen the armor you unlock in GW2? It’s a lot closer to conqueror than “metrosexual”.

      Who says girls don’t want to look tough too?

      Let’s not lie, we might be better off with you not playing GW2.

    • Randall_Wolfcry

       What Ryan you think you’re some kind of conqueror? You think you’re “The One” in the MMOs you play? How does have slightly higher stats than the next guy make you a super badass? This “out-gear” mentality is stupid. In GW2 it’s about “out-skill”ing. Or just getting over yourself and realize that you’re not gonna be more special than anyone else in the game, and just choose to enjoy the monster killing and sight-seeing.

      In GW2 the stats are capped and equalized like any other competitive video game. That means if you’re ACTUALLY better at the game or smarter than the other players, you’ll rise to the top.

      I don’t know what cluster-fuck you’re talking about in GW2. You’re probably talking about a starter zone or World vs World. World vs World specifically is meant to be a cluster fuck, and the starter zones were cluster-fucks just because everyone was new.

      Those are probably the only situations in which GW2 could ever be a cluster-fuck. So if you don’t like the cluster, just don’t play WvW mmkay?? Problem solved.

    • Brosaxon

      To quote Yahtzee’s review of Cataclysm:

      “It’s not about items is it? You don’t honestly care if your new Crystal Meta Sword is gonna clash with your Elite Boss Clogs, it’s about the numbers. You want the items with the best NUMBERS so you can use your NUMBERS to decrease the enemy NUMBERS until your NUMBERS are the best in the land and all the other guilds flock to regard your NUMBERS with jealous awe.”

      Of course he exaggerates for comedic effect (as it’s usual for him), not all WoW players are like that but in your case I think it fits. You don’t really want “powerfull items” as you put it, you want BIGGER NUMBERS to hide behind so you can pretend you actually have skill.

      • dawolv

         I just had to watch it again after reading this :D

    • http://twitter.com/RichieProcopio Richie Procopio

      Go watch one of Ed Park’s (Taugrim) PvP videos where he analyzes the action for you and then see how you feel about the PvP.  Also GBTV’s new show next week, BuildCast will be something else you’ll want to check out.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Have to figure, a few weeks after launch players will start to establish sPvP rankings.   This should start separating players by skill level.

        For WvW, it seems more about the will and resources of the realm.

    • Sean Bradley

      League is a complete level playing field everyone to start has the access and ability to obtain runes and champions on their own. You cant buy runes so there is no pay to win aspect. So just like Guild Wars 2 League is a complete skill base system you get no special advantage from gear grind and any hardcore pvp game worth its salt should never prioritize gear over skill. Having advantageous gear is like starting out with 20 pts in a basketball game putting up a hurdle for the other player to overcome for no logical reason.  Competitive pvp should have all players on an equal field at all times with the outcome determined by their skill at that craft. 

    • XMP_Data_Guru

      Cant play without the time=I win button of gear crutch.  Conquer my butt… your a thug.. they wont come at you unless they out gun and out gear you.. they wont ever do a even fight because they know they will lose… LOL conquer and time=I win LOL

  • RolyVento

    Great article, great podcast! Very informative.

  • http://twitter.com/Luke_Malcolm Luke Malcolm

    Is it just me or is that Charr Engineer picture just dirty looking ??? pun intended. ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Quinn/504633100 Jason Quinn

    I just like to have something awesome to work towards, and to be rewarded after weeks of working towards it. 

    • Randall_Wolfcry

      There are so many ways you can have that in GW2. And lots of those ways end with your character looking badass.

    • http://twitter.com/Conwolv Conwolv

      There’s plenty of awesome to look forward to. Your gear stats may not increase, but you can always get better looking models. 

  • Randall_Wolfcry

    QUOTE:
    “If the most powerful gear is easy to get in Guild Wars 2, why should I continue to play it at level 80?”

    This is actually NOT a valid question. People have just been trained to think it is. Repetitious grinding day-in and day-out just to slowly get higher stat boosts? Just to have a bigger stat number than the next guy? Does that really make you cool? No it makes you a repetitious grinder.

    The point of playing a game is to HAVE FUN!! If people can realize that what they’ve been told is fun in a standard MMO isn’t, they’ll find there’s a lot of actual fun in GW2.

    It’s sad that people who are trained into playing grindfest MMOs have to
    be trained out of the mentality that doing repetitive labor with
    minimal advancement gain is “fun”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

       Well then, wouldn’t it be the player’s fault for not understanding what fun is to him/herself? I certainly don’t need anyone telling me how to have fun in a game (especially Colin Johanson). I have the mental capacity to judge for myself if I am enjoying what I am doing in a game from moment to moment – no training was necessary nor required. If something is not fun, I do not do it. If something is fun, then I do it.

      The sad fact is that gamers tend to feel that their own feelings are right, and anyone else who does not feel the same is wrong. GW2 did not meet my “fun” quotient, GW1 does, as do many other games. Turns out, I don’t mind a bit of grindfest after all – it harkens back to my days of Wizardry XP and loot grind – which I still continue today in between rounds of my newer favorite games. Nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with the players who detest grind.

      • Randall_Wolfcry

        I don’t think there’s anything wrong with grinding for something either if that’s what’s fun for you. There will be plenty of people grinding in GW2. But the idea of level actually meaning something, and trying to get super gear is out-dated. At least it is for anyone who’s played GW1.

        People thinking they’ve finished the game because they can’t make their characters stats any higher. THAT is what I’m saying is ridiculous.

        It was pathetically sad in the early years of GW1 when you heard people say they quit the game after they hit level 20. Anyone who knows shit about GW1 knows that’s just the beginning of the game.

        Increasing level and increasing stats are the same idea. If people think nothing is worth doing unless they can creep their stats a tiny bit higher, I think that’s a ridiculous mind-set.

        It would be like quitting an Assassin’s Creed game as soon as you get all the best gear for Ezio instead of finishing the second half of the game.

        • Jay

           Lol I like the Assassin’s Creed reference… Good point.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Of course it’s a valid question.   But, Richie is just using it as a straw man, so he can knock it down with his article. 

      Why are people who want to play GW2 so sensitive about gear?  I’m having alot of fun in GW2 WvW and I’m focused on unlocking slots and skills.

      • Jay

         For a long time, in games like WOW, gear was the primary goal… The carrot on the end of the stick. There’s a shift from that in GW2, and I think people are just happy to have a game where they don’t feel like they’re being left behind if they don’t have hours each day to play.

        I’m one of those people ^^ even though, I’ll be playing a ton of GW2 lol.

        • Old Ben

          > The carrot on the end of the stick.

          That’s just cruel. 

          Carrot-and-stick refers to a combination of reward and punishment (i.e., you get either the carrot or the stick). Putting the carrot on the end of the stick is just going to send mixed messages and confuse the poor donkey.

          http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/carrot.html

    • Old Ben

      Repetitive behavior with occasional random reward is a well known design philosophy.

      Ask any casino.

      • Randall_Wolfcry

         And drug dealers know that if the first hit’s free, they’ll come back for more.

        What’s your point? Are you saying that being taken advantage of by an MMO is fun or worthwhile?

        • Old Ben

          If the use of casinos as an example didn’t make my point clear enough, read the message again but this time imagine me raising and lowering my eyebrows several times at the end of the last sentence. ;-)

          • Randall_Wolfcry

            Okay then so your point is we should all exploit the addictive nature of humans and take their money by creating our own MMO instead of just playing GW2 and having fun?

          • dawolv

             That’s exactly what game companies have been doing for the longest time now.

            Not just MMO’s do it, just look at what shooters are getting into now! Play CoD Multiplayer and you will see that you need to unlock stuff.
            While that’s understandable when the business model is dependent on it (TF2, Tribes: Ascend, Blacklight Retribution) it’s kinda dumb for a full price game, isn’t it?

            No, because psychology has found out that when you give rewards to fast, the brain doesn’t have any more happy-hormones to feed off of compared to the little chance of eventually getting something (and from time to time ACTUALLY getting it)
            Theres a nice video about it, too bad I can’t share links here.

          • Old Ben

            The hats (or the other stuff you get from crates) in TF2 are not the main goal of the game, nor do they have a significant influence on gameplay.

            They’re (just) a source of income, not the “incentive” to make people _play_ the game. In fact, playing more doesn’t give you more drops. 

            The “slot-machine” (or Skinner box) approach is when the gameplay itself is just a filler (repetitive, boring, requiring little or no skill) and the “incentive” is something separate (typically a random reward after a certain amount of grinding).

            That kind of design affects the brain’s dopamine cycle, not just creating a “high” when you do something fulfilling, but also leading to a “low” when you go for too long without an explicit reward. The effect of that is to make some people addicted (same as the slot machines – which are by far the biggest source of income for casinos).

            Games where the reward is directly tied to gameplay (and dependent on player skill) generally don’t trigger the addiction cycle. It’s still possible to become obsessed with those games (ex., chess), but that’s a different mechanism, which isn’t induced by the game’s actual design.

  • http://www.kaiketsu.enjin.com/ Corey “Crimzen”

    Great article Richie. I definitely prefer this system a whole lot better then a gear based MMO. My motivation for playing is to just be able to see the content, and fight and conquer difficult and challenging bosses, as well as doing pvp and world vs world. Just being able to experience and enjoy the game basically. Also looking like a bad ass is a plus too lol.

  • Adam Armstrong

    Great article Richie. After your last one I have become a big fan of your writing, I look forward to your next piece.

  • http://twitter.com/Rurik1547 John

    I’m glad they are going this route with GW2, the gear grind is what kills an MMO for me (Also the fact that I can’t afford to pay the monthly fee most of the time). It ends up feeling more like I’m doing a chore that I have to pay monthly to do than playing a game I enjoyed (WoW, SWTOR). We’ve been brainwashed by previous games and developers to think that we need the grind to continue to play and enjoy the game. In my opinion it’s just an excuse for them to be lazy and make piss poor content hidden behind the veil of a new tier of armor.

    I like knowing that if I just got owned by someone it wasn’t because they had the next tier of gear & best stats but that they were just plain better than me…or had help because lets face the facts, no one is better than me lol :P Everything I hear and see about this game has me more excited than anything that came before it. I cannot wait to finally get my hands on this game and experience it all first hand in the upcoming BWE.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawna-Daniels/1135007726 Shawna Daniels

    Another great article Richie.
    Swtor’s system proves people don’t care about that gear grind approach anymore.
    People want to enjoy the game and have fun. It’s simply not fun getting rolled because you didn’t spend the last 2 months doing the newest raids or the newest arenas. I don’t consider myself overly skillful at pvp, probably average at best. It’s nice that I can be at least moderately challenging to beat for those who can spend more time in the game than myself as I have a job and some other responsibilites.
    I think the exotic weapons and gear in GW2 will still require a little effort to get, and legendary weapons are basically exotics with a twist.
    I think we can all agree that we like our characters to look cool, as well as being powerful. That is certainly possible in this game.
    If this system isn’t favorable to some people, it’s no big deal. There are certainly games out there that cater to people who like raiding and arena gear progression. No need to hate on other games, or this one. Play what you have fun playing.
    It’s clear that there is a large audience for this type of game and this type of system, as I have never seen a game receive this much enthusiasm prior to launch. Many people seem genuinely excited to play, as I am. =)
     

  • Randall_Wolfcry

    BREAKING NEWS: GEAR IS NOT CONTENT!

    All you people saying GW2 has no incentive seem to all be under the assumption that gear = content.

    Gear is not content. You have been lied to. GW2 has tons of content, but not gear grinding. Because gear is not content.

    Have a good day.

  • C P

    Very good article, but I respectfully, partially disagree.

    I disagree with this part here:
    “The answer will be different for everyone, but it’s summed up easily by saying: to have fun playing the game. Perhaps you want the satisfaction of beating all 25 explorable dungeon paths. Maybe you’re a crafting fanatic and strive to max out all eight disciplines on a single character. Other gamers are explorers and have a hankering to experience every vista, point of interest, renowned heart and jumping puzzle. There are alt-aholics who won’t be satisfied until they’ve played every profession and others who want to hang out with their friends and take out dynamic events. World vs. World is a never-ending siege battle and hardcore PvPers have an unlimited source of competition in the structured tournaments. The list goes on and on.”  

    Simply put, none of the above will keep me playing. They will add to the enjoyment to an extent, but alone will not keep me playing. Legendary Weapons, Armor and the like will however keep me playing. 

    Also BF3 shouldn’t be in this article at all. It’s not near a fair comparison. But I think you knew that. 

    To me acquisition of skills, gear and other items is what makes me want to play. Things that over time make me better than the average player will keep me playing, or should I say the race to those things. I need to point out that I am far from a hardcore player. But simply because I don’t have the same time to spend playing as someone else who is hardcore doesn’t mean that I feel like I’m being cheated. I want to see the hardcore player in better gear than me. I expect them to wipe the floors with me in PvP. I want challenge. I want danger. I want epic wins with epic failures. I want the chance of being the best at whatever it is I choose, even if it’s just a short time, otherwise it gets boring real fast.

    To me MMO’s are evolving the wrong way right now by trying to please everyone with too small a scope to be really effective. It’s too fair. Look at SWTOR and Rift. SWTOR to me, had great promise but couldn’t come close to living up to it. Try to please everyone and in the end please not as many as you had hoped.

    My hope is that MMO’s are slowly swinging back to a more Risk/Reward approach. We’ll see.

    Do I like GW2? Yes; very much. I look forward to playing my Ranger/Chef. I don’t want to get bored and try another game for a while. I want to keep playing, not for 3-6 months, like swtor, but for years. I look forward to seeing what they have in store for us.

    • EndrzGame

       Would you rather have a player beat you in PvP because they had better gear than you or because they were more skilled? Personally I’d prefer the later in that situation. Having everyone on equal footing from the get go just makes the game that much more enjoyable to me. I’m not being forced to grind so that I can keep up. I can just play and hopefully get better. For me that’s more of a victory than my shiny new +200 str. axe of pwnage.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/YSVAPKVBUPTX6YS3W2DLPOBNN4 AlokP

        I would like the player who puts in more time and effort than me to have an advantage over me, yes. That’s basically the capitalist system we live in – if I work harder and longer, I win. To some extent, skill can overcome gear, but if I’m a genius in real life but never bother putting in the effort, should I be on equal footing with a pretty smart guy who has worked his ass off? The problem is when a complete idiot can roflstomp a genius just by working hard and long (ie, grinding) – which hasn’t been the case in MMO gaming in awhile.

        Furthermore, the grind DOES eventually end, unlike RL. After about 2 months of grinding, you’ll be in the best possible PvP gear for your season in WoW, and at that point, the game is not about outgearing people, but actually having more skill, because then everyone has the same gear. I find the “LOL, skill > gear” argument to be fallacious because it assumes an infinite grind which really isn’t the case (at least in WoW). The grind approaches 0 on the “usefulness” axis, to the point where skill is the main determiner of outcome, rather than the gear, because everyone has the same gear. I feel like all these comments about the gear come from people who never step outside of random BGs and LFR who expect to do the same things as those who actually organize themselves and spend the required time to get the better gear.

        I agree with C P that games are trying to coddle players too much. People complain that they don’t have enough time to grind as much as other people do – guess what, that’s the way it should work. When I started working 60+ hours a week, I had a choice: 1) Become highly efficient with my game time to “shit accomplished” ratio, or 2) accept my place in the gaming hierarchy. After all, gaming is a hobby, equality is neither assumed or expected. It is not a right. I know I am a skillful player. I actually get more of a feeling of accomplishment from beating a better geared person because I have more skill but not as much time to grind. And once I finally finish the grind (full Cataclysmic now, finally), it is my effort, plus my skill, which allows me to utterly obliterate those who bring neither. I say this as a former 2.5k+ arena player, and not in fotm classes either, and a current 13/13H, 7/7H, 8/8H raider, all while current content.

        • http://twitter.com/Conwolv Conwolv

          Having played PVP in more than one game on a fairly hardcore level, I find the change in not having to worry about gear a relief. I honestly hated having to get my rear handed to me because my gear sucked for weeks on end. Not because I am a bad player, but because someone started playing a game sooner than I did, or has less work hours outside of game than I do. 

          Rather, in this model, I can focus more on honing my skills without doubting myself. “Was it his gear, or because he was a better player?” If I get beat 1v1, I know it’s because he was a better player (assuming profession balance remains in tact). 

          Honestly, this is a good thing. I don’t need better gear to beat other players. I just need to get better at what I do. 

          People who absolutely need a gear grind to feel better at PVP only want to do so because they “pwn the noobs.” because that’s what “having better gear” allows you to do with ease. Real PVP players will seek out a challenge and look to push themselves to the next level. Gear differential skews that. 

          • EndrzGame

            “I don’t need better gear to beat other players. I just need to get better at what I do.”
            That’s why I love GW2′s system. Everyone stays on equal footing and there is no need for the grind, regardless if it eventually ends in other games or not. It just isn’t part of the system to begin with. Huzzah.

          • C P

            “Everyone stays on equal footing and there is no need for the grind, regardless if it eventually ends in other games or not. It just isn’t part of the system to begin with. Huzzah.”

            What you describe above works well with games like solitaire, not in an epic mmo. 

            It’s not just about gear. It’s the everything equal mindset that has destroyed the longevity of modern mmo’s. 

            In a nutshell, game developers today in striving to please everyone and make everything equal, really set themselves up for a game that will not perform at the levels they shot for.

          • EndrzGame

             I don’t see how eliminating the gear grind should have any negative impact on my enjoyment of a game. In fact for me it actually increases because I’m not concerned about having the must have pieces of a set in order to be able to play at peak levels. Areanet has done away with it.

            Now, you will be able to acquire better looking gear with different effects and what not but the items won’t have any better stats than what you start out with.

            For me it’s great. For others it won’t be. There are other games for people to play that do offer the gear grind and they’ve been playing them for years. I too played those games and I’m tired of the grind. I’ve loved the BWE’s and can’t wait to play more.

            To each their own I guess. =)

          • C P

            I’ve already sort of answered this above but I wanted to reply to this post briefly.

            I want to make clear that I don’t like the gear grind at all. I never have. I hate dailies too. It’s a lazy way to get people to grind. 
            How I get the better gear is the developers concern. Though I want it to be fun, exciting and non-repetitive; the opposite of grind.

          • dawolv

             You sir, just stopped making sense altogether.

            You don’t wan’t to grind, yet you want to get endlessly better and better over time?

            What will be the outcome of this then?
            I think we can all agree that you’re idea of gaming is massively different from ours.

          • C P

            My idea of a successful MMO is one that never ends, is fun and has real risk, real reward and real consequences, albeit in the virtual world. No reset button. The only end would be an expansion.

            I think the disconnect is that everyone that reads what I wrote thinks I’m in favor of a gear grind because I want better gear than the next guy if I put the time and work into it. That’s just not the case.

          • dawolv

             What reset button are you talking about?

            Obviously we all want a game with an unlimited number of events and real persisten content, but that’s impossible to create. You basically have to invent the matrix…

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

            That is because you are making contradictory claims.

            With power inflation from “better” gear there is NO RISK yet you claim to want risk. What risk is there if there is a way to have a guaranteed victory?

        • Jay

           I do think people with talent should be on a level “playing” field as people who work hard. We’re talking about gaming, not feeding your family.

          Just because a guy chooses to spend 10 hours a day on a video game, you think it’s fair that he wins easier because of his gear and not his skill? I think you’re failing to realize that people who play GW2 10 hours a day will probably still be better than most people, just from training alone. Talent = Training vs Gear > Talent. One seems more natural… One seems more balanced.

          There’s always WOW for people who desire the grind like yourself.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/YSVAPKVBUPTX6YS3W2DLPOBNN4 AlokP

            Sorry to reply to this somewhat late, been working that 60+ week in less time so I can actually play the BWE this weekend instead of going into work. ;)

            I think the point of it is that the skilled players are rarely beaten by unskilled-but-better-geared players. That’s just a strawman imo. I know WoW at least (I use this as the “negative example” since everyone seems to pile on) has implemented systems that the minute you hit cap, you can craft gear with 2800 resil on it…no effort, just spending gold or farming mats. That’s about 60% of the resil at the “end game” of PvP. And at 60% effectiveness I can beat an unskilled PvPer at 100% effectiveness, 98% of the time. You will lose to more skilled players at any effectiveness, and you will lose to slightly less skilled players with more effectiveness, but that’s all during farming anyways. At that point, “the grind” merely becomes part of the journey of being the best, not a significant disadvantage. I think GW2 is going too far in the direction of “anyone can be the best almost immediately”. The grind becomes detrimental when it is required to become even remotely effective – which, I assure you, and reiterate again, is not the case currently in the major object-of-criticism, WoW.

            Again, I feel like people who make these kind of comments are rolling into BGs with full PvE gear and complaining when they die in 6 seconds. And even Blizzard is addressing that in a new expansion by further coddling people, by making players have innate resilience from the get-go, without spending any money, farming any mats/BGs, or anything. If you’re dying in a BG, you’re either 1) outnumbered, 2) rolling with 0 resil and thus spending 0 effort to get even craftable blues that’d make you viable, or 3) being outskilled and would be dying anyways.

          • Jay

             I get what you’re saying, but I think you’re failing to overlook a simple but significant detail. GW2 has zero grind for sPVP gear… Even though you’re okay with grinding in WOW for gear, whether it’s through farming gold or fighting, there’s still a grind. Many people just prefer having no grind. Especially when you are forced to keep upgrading with each season… That’s a very important point.

            It’s fine that you’re okay with WOW’s PVP system, but most of us here on this site have grown tired of the back and forth grind. You should understand this, being that you work 60+ hour weeks… People just want to jump in, setup their character, and let their training/skill speak for itself.

            Subscription games tend to have systems like this in place to stretch out play times. I’m more than happy GW2 doesn’t have to resort to time sink tactics.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/João-Colaço/100001710416093 João Colaço

          That is fine irl but we’re talking about a game. It’s suppose to be a hobby, yes you have to play it to get good at it still, but why should there be a gear difference between players?

          I can’t understand how much some people like to grind for gear to give them that “special” advantage. Seriously, it was fun for me too for my first few months at max level on my first mmo, but it got boring and tedious really fast after that, and with the new patches and expansions you realise how pointless and stupid gear is.

          I for one am happy with the direction ArenaNet is taking, where skill and knowledge of the game is more important, and gear is pretty much cosmetic.

          • jayremy

            I think this is the entitlement issue in our country and the world, you shouldn’t have to suffer through things. It’s merely a means to an end, if you don’t enjoy playing and that includes (a good chance of) being beaten by higher skilled players then don’t play.

            Skilled players should always be at the top, and those more strategical, there is and has always been a cost to being good at games or having that type of mindset – a lot of headaches too.

            Often skilled gamers have played games most of their lives, it doesn’t have to be just that game, they have put in the “effort” but likely because they enjoyed it. In this society you lose out a lot in the “real world” when you spend a lot of time gaming, or if gaming has been your top passion or one of them.

            People always want to be given a crutch for every time they do something they don’t like. The problem is, most people chose to do such, then are spiteful to those that don’t when they should’ve spent it on something they enjoy.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/YSVAPKVBUPTX6YS3W2DLPOBNN4 AlokP

            Again, this is a strawman argument. People with better gear in WoW have not had a significant or meaningful advantage in quite awhile. That used to be the case, but it was fixed…a long time ago. From the instant you hit cap, you can be pretty damn effective in the gear you can merely craft.

        • XMP_Data_Guru

          Ohh man you need to learn about capitalism.  

          Time=better pay is UNION SYSTEM.

          How good you are at your job=better pay is capitalism.

          I have had multiple jobs where I came in was better then most and with very little time better then every other tech (Data/Switching Techs at a ILEC).  I spent the lest amount of time learning every skill by half of the best tech before me.  That gave me alot of pay raises and offers for better work from other companies.  Now they had tons of guys in that job who had been doing it for 20+ years… but I was better then them.

          So please go tell anyone who knows what capitalism is that its time=money… and watch them laugh at you.

          Has the democrats and Obomaites really messed up america so bad that people really think that time=money in real life?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/YSVAPKVBUPTX6YS3W2DLPOBNN4 AlokP

            My analogy was more akin to “assuming equal skill”, time = effort = should come out on top. There’s also an assumption that “skill of person A >> skill of person B = person A wins”, but “skill of person A ~> skill of person B, but effort of person B > person A = person B wins.”

            >> obviously means “much greater than” and
            ~> means “greater than but not by much”

            Hydra will always pwn me because he’s the best priest in the world and priest isn’t a class I play much. He could be in all blues and beat me in full t2 Cataclysmic. He has more skill than me in that forum. I’m not saying that should change.

        • jayremy

           If you play just so you can “win” through a handicap, there will never be the same prestige as those who play on an even level.  If you play solely to grind up so you can win, that comes off as the game itself not being enjoyable, just the thought of “being better than somebody” at the end.

      • C P

        I understand your point of view, but the answer to your question is, yes to both. Games today just seem so pc about everything. It’s the ultimate in boring to me.

        • EndrzGame

           I’m curious, if you had to pick just one though which would it be?

          • C P

            Honestly, I’d have to say better gear and only because I see what the ‘all are equal’ mindset has done to MMO’s and it’s not good. Now if MMO’s were done better and offered more, my answer could be different.

            As further example of what I consider a mistake with regard to everything being equal, take harvesting. Why do we all have our own nodes that no one else can touch? Why isn’t it competitive? How does competing for a node hurt the game? To me not competing, hurts the game. It takes fun away and makes everyone the same; mediocre. It also hurts any form of entrepreneurial economy. It’s just not fun.
            In an MMO I want to see things that stay, that are truly persistent, that make a real difference in the virtual world. (the best gear, housing, the best maker of certain goods, the best supplier of harvested goods) The ‘all things equal’ mentality just doesn’t allow that. Current MMO’s are staying clear of it, short of some sort of ranking systems. Instead they are making MMO’s with a giant reset button so that when you logout and back in, all is once again right with the world and you are right back to where you started, No risk, no reward.

            This is about to cross into the philosophical and I’m not sure I want to go there. :)  

            I will agree to disagree.

          • dawolv

             Well you are disagreeing with the core design philosohy of arenanet, which is: “Making competitive modes (PvP) truely competitive and making PvE a truely cooparetive game mode by removing all forms of harmful competitive elements”

            For instance:
            Would you watch a soccer match where one team is barefoot and the others ride little scooters?
            Theres a reason competitive games and sports need an equal playing ground to be exciting to watch and play.
            Besides, I feel better myself, when I know I won because of my skill and not because of some numbers on my gear.

            In PvE node stealing and the likes have been removed, because they want players to have a shared goal, a shared incentive. Also if there’s node and mob stealing who’d really play with their friend(s)? That’s just another douchebag close-by to steal my XP and loot.

            So if you say you’re not a hardcore player and you don’t play a lot, this system should actually be better for you!
            You don’t need to grind out stats to be up to par, you can invest the few amounts of hours you play to be really focused and learn the do’s and dont’s and get better than others relatively faster.
            If you think you’ll be at “the end” to fast, just remind yourself: There’s always someone better than you that you can work towards beating!

          • C P

            What I’m trying to point out is that this type of game-play design gets boring fast. Look at TOR. They tried to make an easy mode game and it’s not turning out so well. Some people love it and will continue to love it. Most people though, love it and then get bored and move on.

            Please understand too that I’m not saying that GW2 is this way. I’m simply commenting on the article.

            My hope is that ArenaNet will make it as fun as they have said they would. I’ve played the last betas and had a great time. I just want that time to last.

        • David Manchester

           But it can’t be yes to both.  If time=better gear stats, then grinding time could just as easily be the reason for winning as skill.  Thus you could never have both and be certain that skill was involved.  In the case of GW2 grinding stats is removed so the skill argument is the only one left.

    • XMP_Data_Guru

      Your skill playing the game will give you a much greater reputation with other players then gear.  Gear grind is a crutch bad players want in game so time played = insta win on other non geared players.  

      Remember this is a game you do to have fun…. its not a rat maze with pieces of cheese place all around the maze rewarding you for time spent running around in circles with no end.

      But I really do hope those who want time=win stay in WOW rift Swtor.  And let all of us players who want to be known for our playing skills and not gear have fun.

    • Rich E.

      kind of a redundancy to “disagree”; you seem to miss the fact that he states “The answer will be different for everyone…” and “incentive is subjective…”

      but thanks for your opinion. its an established fact that incentive comes in many forms. GW2′s incentive systems will have varying degrees of affectiveness on different players.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      Statistically better gear does not make YOU better. They make your virtual representative in the game better. If things feel like they have gotten easier it’s because they have and not because you have gotten better at the game. Every “achievement” is cheapen by that simple fact. “Hey! I just beat this boss I was having a hard time with before but thanks to this +infinite defense shield with 200% damage reflection…”

      No epic wins there, only expected results and “maybe you should consider playing another game”.

  • http://twitter.com/Pieterjan369 Pieter-Jan

    Anyone who played Guild Wars will there be a thing like Fowsc UWsc or any sort of team farm in Guild wars 2 ?

    • Randall_Wolfcry

       There are going to be lots of dungeons. Which is what FoW and UW are. Once the game comes out there should be plenty of team builds that people develop and use to run dungeons.

    • dawolv

       It’s kind of hard to implement FoW and UW again, since the game is not human centric anymore. I’d love to have them back though.
      Also I hope that at some point they release an expansion so we can go down into “the deep” and show Primordus who’s boss!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      You’ll probably need to do something like that for the Legendaries. The Legendary items in GW2 seems like the equivalent of Obsidian/Vabbian/Tormented/… in GW1.

  • Randall_Wolfcry

    btw Mike B’s shirt is PERFECT for this article.

  • http://twitter.com/willypallen William Allen

    Great article. I agree with you 100% My favorite part of the whole article:  ”When there’s a monthly subscription fee, gamers feel like they have to log in—otherwise they are wasting money. Similarly, the developers of subscription games feel pressured to stretch out content and keep players on the loot treadmill.”

    • Old Ben

      Those are actually separate issues.

      Every game developer who profits from the game after the initial sale (be it through a monthly subscription, a cash shop or ad placement) is under pressure to keep people playing. If they don’t play, they won’t be paying the subscription, seeing the ads, or buying anything from the shop. In fact, in a way, games that rely on a cash shop or ads are _more_ dependent on people actually playing, since people who buy an annual subscription, for example, are “paying” whether they play or not. 

      The other issue is really just a matter of (bad) game design. There are lots of F2P games whose gameplay is just as “grindy” as WoW. They’re not designed that way “to keep people paying the subscription” (because there isn’t one). They’re designed that way simply because the developers don’t really have a vision for the game, and “repetition + random reward” is the simplest (and cheapest) gameplay model they can create.

  • http://www.facebook.com/toph1980 Christopher Fischer

    Dunno if I wholeheartedly agree but another great article and a nice read.

  • http://twitter.com/Conwolv Conwolv

    Part of the problem with other MMOs is the disconnect from the start of the game and new players coming in later. 

    Players who started a game earlier in gear-grind model MMOs have a higher advantage in content and PVP largely because they started earlier and have had the opportunity to keep up with progression of content and gear. 

    New players coming into a game mid stream has to work harder to catch up in many cases to where players are currently. That process can be what makes or breaks a player from playing a game through end-game. 

    GW2 approaches the game from a standpoint of making all of end-game available to every new player who hits max level. They don’t have to grind dungeons endlessly to get the pre-raid gear so they can just barely do the first tier of content, etc. etc. 

    The longer a gear-grind game goes on the harder it is to keep newer players in the game. The more daunting the task is to the new player. 

    ** New Player = Someone who hasn’t spent a lot of time playing MMOs. 

    • Old Ben

      To be fair, stat inflation in games like WoW also evens out the playing field.

      Sadly, it’s in the opposite direction (i.e., no matter how much time you spent grinding the highest-level gear in the previous expansion, it now becomes virtually useless and you have to grind as much as a new player).

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    Great article.   With the skill based content, a real question is how many players will actually hit level 80 and can run all the dungeons.  With a gear based MMO with periodic nerfs, all it takes is the basic skills to master a class and desire to collect the gear necessary to attempt the content.   

  • http://twitter.com/Nathiest Nathiest

    Give me gear or give me something else to play.

    • Randall_Wolfcry

       Okay. There are other games you can play. kthxbye

    • Shogunz

      Corporations love nothing more than hamsters that love their wheels.  Maybe it’s a form of Stockholm syndrome.

      • dawolv

        Better yet. Make the Hamsters buy the wheels and then charge them for maintanance!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/João-Colaço/100001710416093 João Colaço

    What’s wrong with everyone being equal? It’s the skill and achievements that eventually set you apart from other players.

    Edit: Don’t know how this happened but I’m replying to C P

  • http://www.facebook.com/brandon.hildebrandt.77 Brandon Hildebrandt

    Where can I get that shirt? Sorry off topic…as for the game, I am an explorer, and a completionist, I plan on 100% progress on pretty much each zone :/

    • http://www.facebook.com/rasmus.nielsen.75491 Rasmus Nielsen

      100% Progress in GW2 does not mean you’ve discovered everything. There are things hidden away and put in places that are not part of the exploration completion trail.

      • http://www.facebook.com/brandon.hildebrandt.77 Brandon Hildebrandt

        Oh I realize that, that is why I separated explorer and completionist in my comment ;)

        Im a GW1 player with roughly 26 fully completed titles, all of which were mainly from exploration and non-grindy completion…ism (im making a new word here!) and opted away from finishing the purchasable/time grinding titles.

        I enjoy being an active explorer, so that is my incentive in GW2 :)

        • Randall_Wolfcry

           Indeed I’m an explorer too and GW2 is PERFECT for anyone who likes exploring.

  • Randall Burt

    Another well written and thoughtful article, Otter of the Bog. Thanks! 

    • http://twitter.com/RichieProcopio Richie Procopio

      Thank you.  I appreciate it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/anthony.perry.357 Anthony Perry

    You mentioned the “cookie cutter”  issue that other MMOs may have.
    GW1 had a site called PvX Wiki that had builds that you could upload to your character provided that you had the skills unlocked and the necessary runes.  The PvP seemed to live and die by those builds.  I got called out quite a bit because I used the same minion master build for months, rather than using the latest and greatest builds from the wiki.

    GW2 has at least one site that is similar:  http://en.gw2codex.com/.  I am not sure if the cookie cutter issue can be avoided on any game.  

  • Justin Bania

    Richie is awesome.  He always brings intelligent and passionate talk about GW2.

  • http://glacius.pip.verisignlabs.com/ Glacius

    ArenaNet doesn’t need to build in mechanics like gear “requirements” and raid lockouts just to stall progress, since they aren’t charging a subscription fee.

    Subscription-based MMORPGs have every incentive in the world to stall the player’s progress, as long as they don’t do it to the point where a ton of people quit because of it.

    • jayremy

       Sub fees aren’t what purely drive devs to do this, F2P games and many more can impose the same structure. Sub model was original and still is meant to always keep the game profitable and not costing, to have it’s servers (needed to provide an online experience) running for years on.

      They could make the game last only 30 hours of gameplay release a new DLC every month or couple months, release and expansion, keep on patching. Doing such wouldn’t cause them to lose money, because people would still pay when the new stuff is out, especially with PvP around.

      It is just the active role of the developers to make the game so they can milk you for as much as they can and make the game feel more content-filled than it really is. A sub model can be seen as paying to use their server resources, they could charge $2 a month or whatever method to pay for the game doesn’t matter.

  • brisance

    “Why continue to play Guild Wars 2 at level 80? Why do we question incentive in MMOs and not in other games?”

    We question incentive in MMO’s becasue we usually pay $15 a month. With no monthly sub GW2 gets off the hook and doesn’t have to have an endgame.

    Fact is GW2 endgame is a bit weak like all others at release. The only difference is this one has more Fanboy DefCon 5 going on. The usual lame defense of lack of content, just a bit louder this time. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Smith/100000531128393 Ian Smith

       You do recall they have a cash shop?  If no one is buying from the CS they make no money, either.  Would think that was an incentive to make new content and have “endgame” to keep people playing.  I find it most interesting that people say there is no “endgame” when the game hasn’t even come out.  Arena.Net has stated their “endgame”.  It’s the same one that pretty much every other MMORPG has;  item acquisition, crafting, pvp, replay and yes, even “raiding”, though it appears to be of a new format that is open to everyone.  Little early to make judgements of something you haven’t seen but by all means, make your claims of things you actually have no info on.

    • http://twitter.com/Vampirspiegelei Vampirspiegelei

       Why do so many people keep complaining about GW2 not having and Endgame?

      You do not have an Endgame in GW2 because – look at what exactly “Endgame” is.
      In WoW you level to max and while finding a shiny new sword or armor on the way is neat, it is TOTALLY irrelevant once you reach max level! Once you get to max level your game changes completely. While gear played little to no importance before it suddenly becomes paramount. So you have the phase where you have to level up your character which is more or less regarded as a chore or burden by most and then another phase were you don’t care about Exp anymore but look for better gear instead.
      In GW2 the acquisition of gear is less important. The Focus in GW2 lies on actually playing the game… ALL OF IT! … and not just breeze through lower levels untill you hit lvl 80 where the game “actually starts” (like in WoW)

  • Chills05

    Good read! 

    I always picked the healer class in MMO’s because it’d pretty much guarantee a quick spot in random dungeon runs and I would also be able to defeat tougher enemies due to me being able to heal myself. GW2 has changed all that and I can now pick any class I want and still have all the benefits a healer class would have in any other MMO. Took me 3 BWE’s to get used to that. Now there’s the question of incentives…

    I always wanted to join raids and high lvl dungeon runs to see the story unfold in its most epic way. At least that’s what I kept telling myself. I have always been very much aware that bosses could possibly drop that item that would increase my healing by +10. Once I did get it, though, I’d get into Barby dress up mode and make screenies of my character using or wearing the item in super awesome poses. So far GW2 will provide in that part without issues.

    I would however very much miss the next step: testing that new gear out on previously hard mobs. It’s going to take more than a couple BWE’s to get used to that. Good thing the previous BWE was the last one and all there is left to do is wait a month and just play. With no monthly fee there’s no pressure to log in, only gameplay, story, getting better (or different) looking gear, WvWvW, dynamic events….yeah, I think there are plenty of incentives in this game.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NOWUW5FFH35ICWA6NIQFSRJFL4 johnn

    “But is getting your mitts all over a shiny new axe that grants you +10
    strength truly the base incentive? For many gamers the desire to improve
    their equipment is based largely on their appetite for experiencing new
    content, not the stat increase itself.”

    Love, love, love this line and also this article. It seems that a lot of WoW/Rift/SWTOR bashers think that all raiders are crazy for numbers and ONLY read to get an iLvl 410 piece, and that the number 410 is the SOLE reason why they raid. 

    But it’s not. To raid is to experience the encounters while ALSO working to be able to access harder content. 

    You can really tell that this article is from a true raider’s perspective. I’m tired of reading comments from GW2 players that absolutely bash WoW/Rift/SWTOR so it’s refreshing to read a GW2 piece from a GW2 fan but also a fan of raiding. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/LNA53YAHCSXBSN7UI5OHNX3L74 Winter Chills

    While I played the first Guild Wars and all expansions, I’ve decided not to touch this game with a 10-foot pole. 
    It looks way too addicting and I lost so many hours of my life on the first game.  No way I’m taking that chance again. 
    Enjoy! Kill some bad guys for me!

  • Xthlon Marks

    I only played till lvl 80 and after getting full exotic gear with all enhancements possible I have stopped playing… 

    It was fun while it lasted but there is no incentive for me to keep playing unless I can play through everything alone with the option of playing with others open to how I feel at the time…
    Not forced upon me…

    I am a solo player, I don’t like having to rely on others in-game or find a party to go through a dungeon/event… That is the reason the content mentioned is pointless to me…

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