What's causing WoW subscriptions to drop?

Written by: (Twitter @oliviadgrace - ) | February 18, 2013 7:36 am

115 Comments

We had a great time on Gamebreaker last week gently teasing people who proclaim that WoW is dead with every subscription fluctuation. The latest investor call showed a WoW subscriptions drop from “over 10 million” to 9.6 million, so a minimum of a 400,000 subscriber loss.

Normal Fluctuation

Of course, this could be explained by the usual subscription fluctuations, after every patch they will inevitably go up and down. But it’s kind of easy to dismiss it as this usual fluctuation, when it could actually be something more, indicating the continuation of the gradual decline in WoW subscriptions. Let’s be clear here — I’m not saying WoW is dead, or dying, just wondering for a moment if it’s something more than just usual subscription fluctuation.

Gameplay issues

Hypothesizing a few ideas, one that occurs immediately is the shift in styles between Cataclysm and Mists. It should be noted that Cataclysm is roundly derided as the worst WoW expansion ever, and substantial changes between Cataclysm and whatever followed it would generally be a good idea. However, maybe Blizzard went too far. Gearing, for example, underwent a huge change from Cata, and indeed Wrath, to Mists. In both earlier expansions, Valor gear was used to fill the gaps in drop gear, and it only had one grind associated with it — the Valor points grind. Separately from the Valor grind was the reputation grind. This also provided gear, often pre-raid gear, so items that allowed a player to get up to the point where they could begin raiding, rather than being superior to it. And it was bought with gold. Now, in Mists, the developers have effectively combined the two systems, meaning that there’s a doubled grind to get gear. This removes options rather than adding them, and that, in my opinion, is probably a bad thing.

Apart from that, there’s the unfriendliness of the latest expansion to alts, the introduction of cross-realm zones, and the huge issues with the current PvP season. Any or all of these could be causing WoW subscriptions to decline, particularly with the Annual Pass expiring for many players.

Other Games

Or, are people just leaving WoW for other games? There are plenty around to jump ship to, Guild Wars 2, WoW’s apparent nemesis, the upcoming TESO release, League of Legends, and more. WoW is, after all, an eight-year old game. It has an old core graphics engine, although many graphical improvements have been made over its eight-year lifespan. And it’s not really offering anything that new to players. While the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” philosophy works well, after eight years maybe it’s time for some more exciting new features than the current variations on a theme.

And, of course, WoW is one of the few major titles left that has a subscription at all.

What do you think? What’s causing WoW subscriptions to drop off? And can Blizzard do anything about it?

(Header Image by Chen)
What's causing WoW subscriptions to drop?

  • http://twitter.com/MiZTiiX MiZTiiX

    did you just call “if it aint broke don’t fix it” an English phrase? its an american one you can even tell it should be pronounced in an american accent..

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Rowe/753456628 Andrew Rowe

      Shouldn’t you be off shooting people with your assault rifle?

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      It’s a southern US saying with roots in the 1930′s, that started appearing in print in the 1970′s during the Jimmy Carter administration.  

      I was surprised to read this phrase became a common cliche in England.

  • Demi_God

    My best guess is that the turnover ratio has slowly been getting worse.  It is natural for players to stop playing any game.  The question implies the wrong characteristic as the virtue that has kept WoW a success that it retains players.  When the greatest virtue of WoW has been its ability to gain new players to play WoW. 

    If you were to try and convince a friend to play WoW currently, I don’t think your opening sales pitch would be, “it’s an eight year old game, with dated graphics, game play several other new games have stolen and improved upon for their little niche, and a fantasy story is that is currently not very unique since anything good, has been copied by other authors with newer stories.”

    Vanilla player think of that as classic, but the reality is World of Warcraft is a game old enough to be considered a classic game.  Yes updates, but that is not enough to qualify it as a new game.

  • John Doe

    Whit “A minimum of 400.000″ you mean 400.000*14 euros = 5.600.000 euros per month and thats 67.200.000 per year  because if thats a minimum I dont wanna know whats a maximum.

    There is no wow killer only thing that could kill wow would be blizz shuting down the servers nothing else too many adicted people on that game.

    But what they should look at is that they lost 2.600.000 players after Wotlk. 
    Maybe it would be a good ideea to go back to those standards because they had 12.000.000 players back then.

    • Kyyrr

      I don’t think changing things back to the way they were would bring players back. Most of the people who quit are done for good, broke their ‘addiction’ to the game.

      But as you said, NOTHING will kill the game other than Blizzard shutting off the last server. I’d say the game has another 4-5 years left in it before that thought even comes through Blizzard’s mind.

  • Verus

    I believe they hit 13M back in 2009 the same year League of Legends was released ;)

    Not sure why wow has lost more than 3M players these last few years perhaps it is because of LoL and other top notch free-to-play games such as World of Tanks, Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2 ?

    • Kyyrr

      I think it’s a combination of everything she described. They changed so much about the once-great game, they took away it’s identity that made it the game that everyone else tried to mirror.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rammur65 Roger Means

    its just the mmo market is bein saturated with tons of decent games lately so people are naturally bleeding off not rocket science.

  • Fabio Pizzini

    Really you got problems guys … and i hope not all who read you are stupids … wow was at 9milion for several month before Pandaria now it is still up 9Milion after several month of Pandaria … really guys i’m sad for you but wow it is the greatest and best mmorpg out of there now and forever.

    • Old Ben

      > wow it is the greatest and best mmorpg
      > out of there now and forever.

      A truly depressing idea.

  • hiroprotagonist1

    As long as WoW is considered the MMO for the hardcore raiding and PvP scene it will remain strong.  Many people want to play an MMO that they feel is superior to all the others, and the hardcore scene is what props up that perception.  WoW is obviously long in the tooth, but perception is reality when it comes to MMO’s.  It is going to take quite a game to knock WoW off of its pedestal.

    And when are people going to list the number of $15 subs instead of inflating the number with eastern time cards?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-T-Russell/667898328 Mark T. Russell

       Personally I do not think another game will have the universal success that WoW has had. Not even “Titan” whatever that is. WoW has to slowly lose players because it is so old, but I do not think a WoW killer is going to come. If another mmorpg rises to the level that WoW has enjoyed for so long I will be seriously surprised.

      • Old Ben

        I guess it depends on how you measure “success”. Runescape has 200 million accounts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jason.jenkins.73 Jason Jenkins

    For me it’s all a combination of everything because lets face it there is never ever ever just one reason for any game dying.  For me to really sit here and say WoW is dying the number drop would have to be huge, and by huge I mean in the millions <— thats millions with an "s" as in over 2 million in one single quarter.  This happening would tell me that blizz has really done something stupid or unpopular and have killed the game themselves.  The current way we are seeing it with a few hundred thousand here in one quarter, a few in another is to me nothing more then the plain old thing of people sitting down and saying, wow have I really been playing this game for 8 years?  And begining to look elsewhere for entertainment….and I say this last sentence with myself in mind cause my 8th WoW anniversary is at the end of March and I'm looking to bring my WoW life to an end sometime at the end of MOP.

    • Lynx Raven Raide

       Dropping that amount in that time-frame is somewhat acceptable for your definition, but people have kind of forgotten, WoW has actually dropped over 2.4 million subs since the peak of over 12 million that happened during Cata. While it may be slow, it is still dying.

      That being said, I have a feeling WoW will shed a few more million subs, but will settle at a sub-5 million level which would be the core of the players. Unless, of course, they follow the B2P route which they could easily do given they are already selling minis and mounts for cash

  • BabyChooChoo

    You said it in the video. WoW is 8 years old. Eight. That is insane. In video game years, this game is practically a WWII vet. It’s old as dirt.

    Even with as much as Blizzard tries, the game continues to shows it’s age every passing year it’s around. It’s just the sad reality. People rarely play 1-year old games on a regular basis let alone games that are 8+ years old. WoW is a freak of nature in many ways.

    It has to die down eventually. That’s just how it is. Nothing lasts forever. The only way Blizzard can “save” it is to turn it into a game made in 2013. They would have to literally remake it from scratch, but that’s just unreasonable at this point.

    Even if it does “die” tomorrow though, I don’t think that makes it any less of a game. The cultural impact and success of WoW has been, no pun intended, legendary. It’s only rivaled by ENTIRE FRANCHISES such as Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy and games like that. I get WoW is an MMO and it evolves over time and blahblahblah, but the fact remains – it’s one game. One. No one game has ever done this well and I think the fact it’s slowly dying down weirds people out. i hate to sound like a broken record, but again, that’s just how it is. All good things must come to an end.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kyle-Eggers/100000868131517 Kyle Eggers

    Well to start this WoW isn’t the game it was.   The game really started to decline in how much fun it was since a little after Uldar. ToC was a joke IceCrown nerfed too fast, all of Cata sucked.  Many fun things like leveling up weapon skills have been taken out.  The dungeons finder and now raid finder erode away the communities of the sever and help make guilds pointless.  There is no skill in a game (to many marcos, Rift is like that too), and the talents are pointless now.  WoW has been dumbed down to much.  There are now games to compete with WoW now.  Rift was the first but now there is GW2, TSW, and PS2 to name some of the best to come out.  Also the game is just old. 
    Buy the next expansion WoW will be around 7 to 8 million subs which is far from dead, but I don’t see the bleeding of subscriptions stopping for may years.  WildStar is still coming, and ESO as long as they are not completely fail (SWTOR) they will pull subscriptions off of WoW also. 
    But just so you all have something to flame me about WoW just sucks.  LOL 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Quinn/504633100 Jason Quinn

    It’s pretty simple, the game hasn’t evolved to modern standards. 

  • http://twitter.com/cipero Matt Cipriano

    Yea the double grind is a bit much. I can’t speak for everyone obviously, but for me it is just too much to do in the little time I have to play. I couldn’t really level as a holy pally do I went ret the whole way and went to become a healer at 90 and it was like such a fiasco just to get starter gear good enough to begin healing. 

    Of course I ended up just buying every purple possible from the AH mixed in with holy crafted pvp gear, but that just seems off to have to do that. Additionally, it takes a decent amount of heroic runs, like 7ish, to get enough justice points to purchase gear that isn’t even heroic level so if you are really unlucky with drops you still have a daunting path to take just to get an item level high enough to get in.I admit, for some this may not be a problem, but for others I can see it being a little too much. Now I haven’t unsubbed because of it, but I have cut my game time down to the point that I may not even really play for a month I pay for. 

    TL;DR I think they should have made it easier to get started at level 90. It seems like it takes too much just to get the ball rolling. It’s a bit ridiculous that the best option to get the ball rolling for heroic dungeons (for tank and heals) is to buy all this pvp gear. Not that it’s bad, just seems like a broken system.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-T-Russell/667898328 Mark T. Russell

    The answer is… it is old. Period. People can say that the game is too easy, but if WoW stayed like it was in BC it would be down a whole lot lower than 9.6 million. Everyone that complains about how easy it is forgets that that is the only reason it has remained a high pop game is that it is accessible. No one can expect this game to remain played by millions and millions for decades on end. No matter how great WoW is, and it is a great game, it simply cannot be played by 10 million plus forever. But to anyone who says something stupid like LFR made me quit the game, remember that LFR and things like it kept 5 other people playing past the time you quit. 5 >1 period. 

  • fuchtnacht

    The normal mode raids are tuned a bit too high for the average player in terms of the amount of DPS required to pass the DPS checks. The average wow player isn’t going to be very amazing by the time they reach max level, and they’re going to need a huge amount of gear to make up for that. The time it takes to grind up that level of gear and then be able to do the numbers required for a fight like garalon or elegon while executing the mechanics is a bit much, and it’s made raiding kind of unattractive for the newer players and returning players. 

    It’s kind of puzzling that the normal mode raids require the DPS that they do with such hard enrage timers. Making the mechanics actually able to kill you in normal mode raids is good — but I think they should leave the hard DPS checks for heroic modes for the most part. It would be a good incentive for the lesser-experienced raiders to continue instead of just getting frustrated and hanging up the wow hat.

    • Old Ben

      Hard enrages in general are a shot in the foot, in terms of gameplay, and should only be used when the lore / story clearly justifies them. Soft enrages lead to far more epic battles. “Can we pull back from this and surpass ourselves?” is a lot more interesting than “oh well, looks like we have to restart”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/justin.sisk.5682 Justin Sisk

    F2p games that have less grind, old game with boring classes, needing multiple gear sets for specs/pvp/pve is too much, overpowered pvp classes remaining overpowered(mage,warrior) and underpowered classes remaining underpowered(shaman, monk), blizzard just leaves off this vibe that they dont care about pvp and only care about keeping people hooked on the pve treadmill

    pretty much WoW is too big for its own good, i see myself coming back to WoW once a year or so but only lasting a week  then quiting again, so many other mmos like GW2 and soon to be TESO are innovating with 3 factions pvp and public quest/events, WoW is becoming a static stale bland eventless world

  • http://www.facebook.com/brian.sperduto.1 Brian Sperduto

    I think it’s mostly that it’s a very old game, and has a subscription where there are lots of F2P and B2P games out there that are good quality. I may continue to fluctuate up and down, not sure yet, but it shouldn’t be a surprise when numbers drop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/chadjacquay Chad Jacquay

    I think its just normal fluctuation, but I think WoW has already peaked in ‘max’ subs and will slowly decrease until it reaches a low critical mass.

    For me I quit because I’m tired of how every Xpac they radicially change how classes play, whether its the Talent system or removing or changing skills.

    • Kyyrr

      Similar to the reasons I quit. After years of warrior tanking they changed the way it worked in one expansion, only to rework it in the next, then rework the entire class in the next. 

      I felt like when they had it good, they felt it needed to be changed, they never left well enough alone, and always forced the issue.

    • Old Ben

      Making semi-random changes to talents and mechanics is one way to keep the spreadsheet crowd paying (“I must master the new diminishing returns coefficients!”).

      Of course, it shows how their approach to game design is driven by number juggling rather than by (an attempt to) create a realistic or at least believable and logical simulation of the actions performed in the game (i.e., it’s more evidence that the “world” part of “World of Warcraft” doesn’t really register in the current designers’ minds).

  • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

    I think its a blend of many things.  But there is no doubt that WOW is no longer the go to first MMO game.  Its simply not the quality as a RPG anymore.

    What kills the game in my opinion is the new talent system and the lack of options ppl get now.  It might not sound like a much… but ppl will always need to have something to work towards.  90 levels of content is alot for less hardcore players.  And sometimes you need to have a carrot to keep ppl going.  The talent system did a good job of that.  It was a system that made your character more powerful by your choice.  

    Blizzard just got so many things wrong in MOP that we are not even yet seeing the big and most serious issues.  Most of the new systems were not thought out at all and are causing so many extra issues that are damaging the way ppl were able to enjoy the game before.  

    These two factors lead to both new players not sticking – and the more experienced players leaving.  And ofc the annual pass subs are also quitting.  I get the feeling that huge % of the annual sub player base have now left not only WOW for good… but probably the entire BLizzard franchises.  At least thats how disapointed I was with D3 and WOW total lack of updates for 8 months.  

    But you should NEVER be able to blame the “old game” for its current loss of subs.  A game with millions of players should have a good enough foundation to keep upgrading hardware, systems and content.  The thing is… Blizzard is not using their WOW money to do that.  They are spending it on Titan – and big part of the game developer crew has gone over there as well – even tho BLizzard tries to keep it as low profile as they can.

    BLizzard is killing their own game with how they have handled WOW in the last 3 years.  And there is nothing changing in their approach.  The game that should have two full teams working on current and future content and upgrades is smaller now than ever before.  Thats why the game is not providing the same quality we saw in TBC when they had two teams.
      
    The biggest factor in my opinion is that ppl now know that BLizzard will not – and dont care to keep WOW up to date to compete with new games. They were able to do that before – but no longer.  The expansion format simply does not work well enough since they leave most of the older content unchanged.  So WOW will continue to loose subs unless they change their approach and make a real living world updateable game – like we see for example in EVE.

  • nader aghamiri

    Blizzard banned iran and syria due US sanctions they lost many players cos of this

  • arenasb

    It’s an 8+ year old game. It’s rather amazing that it has kept as many subs as it currently has.

    • Old Ben

      There is very little in common between WoW 8 years ago and WoW now. Competely different content, different engine, different goals, different community.

      Ironically, I think some people who left WoW would be more likely to play it if there were some servers running vanilla or TBC.

      • arenasb

         Yeah, I agree to your sentiment.

        For me WoW was at its best when I first played at release. Why? Because it was new and undiscovered. Plus it was my introduction to mmos (I was an RTS person before). Now there is no mystery to the game and with so many other games out in this saturated market my interest in WoW has plummeted to nil (in as much as I haven’t played for the past 2 years).

        • Old Ben

          It’s not just a matter of novelty. It’s also a matter of world cohesion and believability. Some RPG players might enjoy gambling and number grinding, but what makes them RPG players is the wish to live in (or at least visit) an alternative world. And WoW has been losing that since WotLK.

          WoW still has (arguably) the most polished dungeons and the best UI (if you include 3rd party add-ons), but dungeons and raids get repetitive pretty quickly, and after a while only appeal to number-grinding addicts. As a result, most of the the old-school role-players have left, leading to a less social, more selfish, more autistic community.

          It was predictable from the changes introduced in WotLK, really. Make a game jerk-friendly and soon most of your player base will be jerks. It’s downhill from then on, because it becomes harder and harder to keep civilized players interested, and anti-social players are less likely to invite their real life friends to join (which means more advertising costs just to try to replace the players who leave). 

          • Kevyne_Shandris

            When RIFT came out they had a age poll, and most were 40+. I’m near 50 myself, and having WoW turn into a FPS isn’t what I consider a RPG game (fights now are more dexerity based, as the game mechanics are reverse of what it was even 5 years ago — we AoE the mobs, now they remove a lot of AoEs and the mobs AoE the players. Its so extreme now, as a Holy paladin, the only AoE I have that does any inkling of damage comes at level 90. HR and LoD isn’t seen until after level 80). Blizzard even took away Consecrate, which I never seen a paladin get dispossed from in any RPG (it’s almost a signature of that class).

            WoTLK isn’t the fault of this change in people playing the game (the behavior problems has been happening to many games before 2008…some of the worst personality players I’ve seen are veteran raiders, with a mouth the devil would only kiss), the problem is the tolerance of the behavior. Ninja something it used to be publicly reported and that dude won’t see a raid again. Now, they’ll even defend the behavior. Just look at what Paragon said about exploiting to win, if they wouldn’t do it another guild would…and they’re suppose to be pros. Did their sponsors pull out?

            Everyone loved Lance Armstrong when he was winning, those reporting he was doping were ridiculed. That is until he confessed, and the same once touting crowd, are there to crusify him.

            The Stanford Prison Experiment explains a lot of the behavior, how it’s tolerated, and how it becomes even institutionalized. We can identify the problem, the real issue is to correct it…and that starts at Blizzard calling the experiment to an end (as they setup the environment for the behavior to grow and fester).

          • Old Ben

            The “people playing a game” didn’t all suddenly become jerks. The changes in gameplay and game mechanics introduced in WotLK made the game significantly more jerk-friendly (namely the automated cross-server Dungeon Finder, which meant players no longer had to worry about their reputation, the way nearly every resource node had a mob sitting on it to encourage players to steal while the first to arrive was busy, and the focus on soloable content and dailies).

            The result was that the only “veterans” who stayed were the jerks and number-grinding addicts (often the same people – who look right through other players and only see that [+1 something]), and as the jerk demographic increases, it becomes harder and harder to convince the constructive, civilized and sociable newcomers to stay for long. In many ways, WoW went from being a multi-player game to being a game where people sometimes have to use other players (supplied automatically by the dungeon and raid finders) to advance their own individual objectives.

            The other things you mention (combat, leveling, order of skills) have their own issues, and also drive away (or at least make the game less appealing to) role-players, but they don’t give an actual advantage to jerks.

            IMO the horribly implemented Dungeon Finder was the single biggest factor in WoW’s civility decline, but it wasn’t just an accident; a lot of other little things introduced in WotLK (and beyond) suggest that it was part of a deliberate plan to attract more of a certain demographic (you’re right about the tolerance – the GMs have explicit instructions to not punish ninjas or scammers, because Blizzard is terrified that they might cancel their subscription). They just didn’t think about the consequences enough, and didn’t realize it would drive away a huge chunk of their core player base.

          • Kevyne_Shandris

            Well, I was warned long before 2008 about WoW’s horrible community. If it’s rep proceeded even before I started playing the game in WoTLK, LFG and then LFR, didn’t cause it. It amplified it’s presence as you can run through more dungeons/raids (that used to take time to get people to even enter them), though.

            It’s always been there.

            This biggest change, since Cata especially, is the acceptance of the behavior. It has steadily gotten worse. Without even the players keeping it in check, and Blizzard allowing anything goes, the community will get steadily worse.

            It’s a No Man’s Land now.

          • Old Ben

            Before the automated dungeon and raid finder, if you developed a (bad) “reputation” in the server, you’d soon find yourself with no one to raid (or do dungeons) with. With the “give me automatic friends” button (and the way it can fetch players from other servers), there was really no incentive for jerks to stop being jerks. 

            Every game has jerks; the issue is whether it’s designed to punish them for being jerks (or at least give the other players mechanisms to do so), or if it actually rewards them for it. And the changes in the design team (half way through the development of WotLK) had a very noticeable influence on the direction WoW followed.

          • Kevyne_Shandris

            But it’s not a LFG/LFR problem. The concept is terrific, it allows to run dungeons at 3am; it allows having a 25man raid on realms that have a hard time getting a 10man together. It’s truly one of those best things since sliced bread innovations in MMOs.

            The problem is Blizzard doesn’t offer accountability. Partly because of their extreme Libertarian views on gameplay, partly because CA privacy laws.

            If Blizzard would offer more tools for players to police the turf for themselves, then public groups can be more enjoyable.

            I want account wide ignores because the dude is going to be a buttwipe on his level 90 warrior and his level 20 mage, cycling through them to appear superior in trade chat even. Want the list to allow something like 300 accounts possible (and I’m sure some addon modder will offer an unlimited option). So that buttwipe in trade chat trying to form a troll raid folks won’t see it, nor will they be a part of the time waster. So if Johnny the rogue who rolls need on intellect plate, won’t ever have to roll on intellect plate again (as I sure will let other Holy paladins know in trade about it so they can put him on ignore).

            So the problem isn’t LFG/LFR, it’s not having the tools to police the trash out of them. The methods they do have currently penalizes people (kicking the trash out of dungeons/raids, increases your own kick timer. So when you really need to kick the trash you can’t. I’ve seen folks issuing kicks because some mage was jumping in a corner waiting on a tank to get off the phone. That’s not what kicks are for, it’s for a tank who rushes toward the boss without a peep, pulling it to wipe the raid, and laughing calling everyone n00bs).

            We just need better tools to police our turf.

          • Old Ben

            The concept of letting players find others who want to do dungeons is terrific (and obvious). The way it’s implemented in WoW (as something automatic and totally impersonal) is horrible. And it shows the designers are either completely incompetent or (far more likely) deliberately trying to make their MMO appeal to anti-social players, so they can increase their short-term profits.

            It’s a bit as if, when buying stuff on eBay, the site automatically selected the seller (without showing you his name first) and had no way to let users rate each other. It would turn it into a scammer’s paradise, until eventually only scammers frequented it.

            The extremely limited (and character-wide / character-based) ignore lists are another sign of how Blizzard is deliberately trying to cater to jerks (ensuring that, even if they get put on a lot of ignore lists, they can simply switch characters). It would have been trivial to code the ignore lists so that, if you choose to ignore player X, you will not get grouped with him regardless of which character he’s on or which character you’re on. Not just trivial to code, but it would have been the logical and obvious thing to do. 

            It can’t be changed by a 3rd party add-on because your ignore list needs to be kept on the server. The only thing an add-on can do is filter chat, it can’t control who the Dungeon / Raid Finder groups you with.

            Between malice and incompetence I tend to assume the latter, but almost every change introduced since WotLK seems to point in the same direction. Blizzard is getting the player base it deliberately aimed for.

            Valve is one of the few companies actively trying to study how much value players add to the game, and openly saying that not all players are worth the same. Blizzard should “watch that space”, but I don’t think they can even see what’s going on in their own games, so I won’t hold my breath. IMO, they’ve dug WoW into a hole too deep to get out of, both in terms of gameplay and player base.

          • Kevyne_Shandris

            Extended ignore lists have been a feature in WoW for some time now, as addons. They can inform you that the offender is in the group and/or raid, despite not being kept on server (ImpIgnore is one such addon). There’s another addon to share lists with your other alts as well.

            Preventing people from even queuing with those on an ignore list would be nice, but I can imagine the nightmare that would bring, especially folks screaming why it’s taking so long to queue (some players get crazy in how many they ignore, and in the process that many ignored will increase their queue time trying to match groups).

            I don’t understand why you blame WotLK/LFG/LFR for the problem, when the problem long existed before WotLK/LFG/LFR existed. Vanilla and TBC wasn’t free of the rift raft, and WoW doesn’t have a site like EQ2Flames to notify game wide of ninjas and trolls. First time I learned of WoW wasn’t about the game, it was how sorry the community was, and that was around 2006. I stayed cleared of it until I burned out on EQII, then gave it a try. But they were absolutely right about WoW’s community…it’s worse than even seen in FPS games.

            As for value of players if you mean by their suggestions, I would agree. But Blizzard will never acknowledge that, because of legal reasons. In a perfect world players would get credit for their help, though.

            Blizzard is in damage control mode now, and they’re busy on all of these sites to snuff out opposing opinions. Which is sad, because it shows they don’t want to listen to anything but their own voice (they already stereotype players to begin with). The Diablo 3 / Facebook fiasco outlined it very clearly, as it matches the same rhetoric GC posted on the WoW forums. It’s like some Blizzard policy about players, they are XYZ and that’s that.

          • Old Ben

            WoW already prevents you from getting grouped with people on your ignore list when you use the Dungeon Finder. Or at least did, the last time I played (which was shortly after the release of the truly amazing Dragon Soul patch). 3rd party add-ons don’t (and can’t). 

            As to the design philosophy changes in WotLK (after the lead design team changed), if you still don’t understand, I guess I’ve hit the limit of my ability to explain.

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    What I am surprised about is that Mists of Pandaria sold between 9 to 10 million copies last year.  When another MMO sold 3.5 million copies the GamebreakerTV staff were doing back flips and “Internet High Fives.” (love that TESO video) 

    My impression is that the push back over 10 million subscribers was annual pass holders, mutli-box players and returning players getting ready for the Mists of Pandaria release. 
    So, I’m not surprised that Blizzard lost a few annual pass holders who have not played for months and other who used the recruit a friend bonus from their second account. (That what I did, gifted my monk about 40 levels from a hunter I created with a second account.)

    When I Googled “Is WoW dead” only some old posts and the now numerous GamebreakerTV articles came up. 

    Personally, I see a significant number of guildies that play WoW for between 4 to 6 months out of the year.  They played regular for the Mists launch, leveled up their main toons, tried out a monk and tried out a Pandarian.  After a couple of months, you don’t see them around until the summer.  So, I think numbers will always fluxtuate. 
    One of the complaints about Cata was you could grind heroics all day and buy raid level gear and never step into a raid.  That is part of the reason Cata was considered so alt friendly.  Raid level gear without raiding. 

    With Mists you gear for raiding through heroics, scenarios, world bosses and buying a couple of crafted pieces.   You then actually raid (lfr and/or normal) for raid quality gear.  You can then buy the off pieces from the faction vendors. 

    I don’t think the free to play or buy to play MMOs affect WoW anymore. The f2p/b2p games seem to feed off each other, with a significant MMO community that now jump from one MMO to the next.  Hyping up the latest and greatest MMO until something new comes along. 

    • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

      I can well understand that you are surprised about 9 – 10 million MOP copies sold…  Cause Ive yet to see ANY official numbers.  Just because D3 sold 12 million does not mean MOP sold 10 millions. Would be nice to show where you get your information from.

      What we do know is that MOP had far less interest than any other WOW expansion.  Under 3 million copies sold in first week is poor for the game and really shows what is happening with the game.

      Secondly – there is no official sale chart of games.  BLizzard is talking about Activision games – not the entire gaming market since they do not have those numbers.  So even with whole of Asia on the line – I doubt that MOP sold 10 mills.

    • arenasb

       Do we really know if there were 9-10 million copies of MoP sold?

      • Old Ben

        If they have “9 million subscribers”, we can be pretty sure they weren’t. Over 60% of WoW’s “subscribers” are in China, where there’s no monthly subscription, and most players don’t even buy the game. They just buy game time cards and play in internet cafes. Each separate account is counted as a “subscription” by Blizzard (as long as the player logs in at least once during that month), but it doesn’t necessarily correspond to a box sale, and can mean less than $1 per month in revenue (compared to $10-$15 for western subscriptions).

  • gamewiz

    Until The sub loss is in the millions…its afluctuation…

    if you take $1 from a person who has $1000 dollars that is nothing to them.

    if you take a $1 from a person that has $3…. it matters….

    For WOW, 400,000 is nothing…yes it sucks…but thats the way markets work.

    Until wow drops below 5 Million its King of the hill.

    MOST of people who remain in WOW are those who LOVE the Blizzard Warcraft LORE and environment. Also those who built a love for Blizzard games for the last 20 years.

    Other games are trying too hard to “Force” Lore and stuff on you… you cant be TOLD lore… you have to experience it…

  • http://www.facebook.com/elias.rowan Elias Rowan

    OT: Audio sync is pretty consistently off on GB videos and streams. Kinda distracting.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/WZ324KCWGCMJENR2ZFFTCK3QP4 Blaze

    After 8 years the game has finally gotten boring for me..  Raids are dull..  everything seems dumbed down and cute.  Way to many dailies..  The game is pointless.

  • Ravenstorm

    The dumbing down was imo the wooden stake in our beloved vampire, called WoW. It used to be about real challenges, I remember punching my way to max level unarmed combat, Christ that was tedious but satisfactory getting that last point.

    So many things went the way of the dodo that at one point I suspected Blizz had hired G. Lucas to kiddify the game so everything would be easy and all people would be happy.I would’ve thought people had learned from the Matrix movie, paradise kills people, we only thrive when in strife, out inherent dna spells *fight*to*grow*.

    I can’t remember the times I had to travel on my mount from Stormwind to Kalimdor and I enjoyed it, it made the world alive.
    But even in WotLK Blizz began to fumble around, easying up getting gear, and Catacalism as G.G. calls it just killed the game for me.

    That said, 9.6 million people and still going, I grudgingly pay my respects to the old dame, she still runs steady although her age is showing.
    World of Warcraft is the mother of all mmo’s, I for one hope she’ll have many years to come.

    Hell, who knows, maybe they’ll let Dan Abnet write their next expansion storyline and boot the game into overdrive.

  • Justin Griffin

    I can only speak for myself as to why I stopped playing WoW for good. I played WoW on and off since 2006 but never quit entirely. I wanted to though, I really did. It made me tense and frustrated with myself adding up all the time and money I had spend on /played and subscription and expansions costs, which when I started was on my parents credit card which made me feel guilty. I would sometimes think that my addiction as a child and in early adulthood to WoW as not unlike Frodo’s experience with the one ring, just less intense. Lol

    The main factors for me quitting and relieving myself from the burden of my addiction and to the game was subtle and slow exorcism and alleviation of ‘pressure’. I picked up Minecraft in it’s pre-released stage and had it change my mindset on games. A small one-man indie development giving me just as much pleasure as a big name triple-A title. Also, I got addicted to it but it was a purer more honest game in my eyes. WoW always had some kind of bizarre sinister nature to it.

    These feelings regarding WoW have dissipated greatly, as if the source of it’s power has moved elsewhere. I can’t explain it. Just a lot of people I’ve spoken to, consider WoW as somehow, something to be avoided. It’s unlike any other game in that way. I’ve heard people at the height of WoW’s growth, saying they won’t play it because they know the’d get addicted to it. People knowingly avoided a game because they’re afraid they’d enjoy it too much and not be able to stop! That almost defies reason.

    I suppose the second reason I left WoW was the Panda expansion (MoP). As I played Starcraft 2, I felt as though it were made for Korea! Morgan Webb, formerly of G4TV (RIP, G4), stated once that she felt the same way (about SC2) after I had had this thought and a conversation with my friend — a gaming news insider said the same thing as me. If I was and perhaps am currently on the same wave-length with her, that’s reason enough to validate my own views on the matter.

    So the point I was driving towards is that MoP is artistically, Oriental/Asian, specifically Chinese, in it’s art direction, music and setting. It felt so tasteless to me how Blizzard reacted to GW2 with MoP .MoP was for the most part not even based on the original Warcraft series’s lore; except for a brief appearance in one of the games. GW2 was hot on the heels of MoP with it’s release and that was published by NCSoft, a Korean publishing company.

    Kong-Fu panda, a children’s movie bears a heavy resemblance to the Pandarian, who started out as a joke! How terrible is that people can spend hundreds of dollars and countless weeks in a game-world, only to be seemingly mocked by the game developers. The average age of gamers is going up, not down. Why make the game more child friendly as it ages? Like so many things involving Blizzard, I know why I think they’re doing but I just don’t agree with it.

    Okay, my final reason. MoP will be marketed towards Asia and specifically China; where there are many WoW players. As SC2 was marketed towards Korea. I felt that the game was no longer primarily focused on an American audience.

    I’ve seen Blizzard become progressively worse as far as their ‘heart’ is considered. I guess a third reason which I just decided to include whilst writing, is this. Since WoTLK, Blizzard has pushed expansions for WoW out quicker and abandoned their “when it’s ready” mentality to games. Hence, making poorer quality products in my opinion. Blizzard no longer is equal parts art and business. It is mostly business minded now and is becoming increasingly ‘toxic’.

    So for the lazy or busy: my three reasons for me, Justin, quitting WoW, is as follows:

    1. Minecraft; changed my perspective on what games could be and what they are.
    2. Market-place ‘pivot’ by Blizzard, increasingly to Asia. Which is bad because Asia is a tough market to crack and requires more resources. If the resources are spent on Asia, American gamers suffer as a result.
    3. Blizzard abandoning, partially or completely in different cases their “when it’s ready” mentality.

    Disclaimer: I’m not inclined to debating you all. The only person I care to hear from is Olivia and that is because I want her to keep me warm for the rest of winter… I know, it’s too much.

    All that being said, I’d still like to say goodbye WoW, I’ll remember you fondly. ;(

    • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

      The strange thing is that MOP has totally failed in China. It was out there in October and BLizz was for sure hoping sub numbers would increase in 4th quarter based on that.  But it didn’t happen.   Asian ppl are used to the Asian theme.. so its not so special for them.  And the MOP version of Asian style is pretty lame and childish. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/inkogni.alex Inkogni Alex

    Can’t be just fluctuations, the number has been going down with kinda big jumps after Cataclysm. The game starts only at max level, the leveling process is really dull and not challenging in any way ( why its even there ? ).
    The ability for players to experiment with specs is still there, but you can throw stuff at the wall without thinking and still be fine having average dps or heals.
    unlike in wrath where we had so many DK specs ( talking about DK because i remember it ). can go using 2handers or 1handers and still be decent. The unholy specs, be it disease oriented or minion.
    Its simplified to the level that many say that its children game now.
    Comparing it to GW2 we have insane amount of ways how you can spec our a character and so many side things to do that are challenging.

    • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

      Ye – there is definitely issue with the current leveling experience with WOW atm.  More content does not mean better game experience. 

      Like I said earlier – I think removing the talent trees really hurt the game while ppl are leveling.  It was a good part of the leveling progression to have 1 point to add yourself. Now its just line after line after line of generic quests all the way up to level 90 that very few actually bother to take any interest in.  And even less interesting with alts.    Its just one of the things that failed with Cata model when they rewamped the quest system.  

      I say it here again and again =)  Blizzard removed all choices from the game.  And thats why WOW as a RPG game is fading and loosing subs.

      • http://www.facebook.com/inkogni.alex Inkogni Alex

        sometimes it feels like the game becomes more dull so they can have players of smaller age in the game and simply can’t miss with the spec. Next stop is professions such as Tailoring, JC, Mining… they already started it with wowFARMWILL. 

  • http://twitter.com/QuietNine Quiet

    wow is dead regardless of total numbers. they went from being almost entirely NA/EU to being almost entirely SouthEastAsia. While that may not equate to “dead” in raw numbers, it is dying in terms of popularity with the Western player base, which is most of the gamebreaker audience

    Why?
    Inferior questing to other MMO’s going as far back as Warhammer (especially against SWTOR, GW2).
    Never gave attention to open world PvP, a MAJOR draw in other games.
    Bad Graphics.
    Huge time between expansions.
    LFR is terrible, you run LFR for gear just to run the same thing on Normal, HM.
    5mans, once a strong point, have been done well by competition since Rift.
    25mans, once unrivaled by any MMO, killed to appease 10mans.
    Announcing Pandas and Pokemon, adults leave.
    New talent system adds “choice”, destroys excitement for leveling.

    And as people leave, they are replaced by SEA players. Players who dont mind the non-existent PvP, love the new Panda-Pokemon theme, love the 10man raiding theme. The numbers might be there, but the game is dying to its original player base.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Spears/100000045054762 Joseph Spears

      Scrub

  • Justin Griffin

    I can only speak for myself as to why I stopped playing WoW for good. I played WoW on and off since 2006 but never quit entirely. I wanted to though, I really did. It made me tense and frustrated with myself adding up all the time and money I had spend on /played and subscription and expansions costs, which when I started was on my parents credit card which made me feel guilty. I would sometimes think that my addiction as a child and in early adulthood to WoW as not unlike Frodo’s experience with the one ring, just less intense. Lol 

    The main factors for me quitting and relieving myself from the burden of my addiction and to the game was a subtle and slow exorcism and alleviation of ‘pressure’. I picked up Minecraft in it’s pre-released stage and had it change my mindset on games. A small one-man indie development giving me just as much pleasure as a big name triple-A title. Also, I got addicted to it but it was a purer more honest game in my eyes. WoW always had some kind of bizarre sinister nature to it. I called Minecraft a penicillin for WoW internally and to my friend.

    These feelings regarding WoW have dissipated greatly, as if the source of it’s power has moved elsewhere. I almost can’t explain it. Just a lot of people I’ve spoken to, consider WoW as somehow, something to be avoided. It’s unlike any other game in that way. I’ve heard people while WoW was at the height of it’s growth in the US, saying they won’t play it because they know they’d get addicted to it. People knowingly avoided a game because they’re afraid they’d enjoy it too much and not be able to stop! That almost defies reason.

    I suppose the second reason I left WoW was the Panda expansion (MoP). As I played Starcraft 2, I felt as though it were made for Korea! Morgan Webb, formerly of G4TV (RIP, G4), stated once that she felt the same way (about SC2) after I had had this thought and a conversation with my friend — a gaming news insider said the same thing as me. If I was and perhaps am currently on the same wave-length with her, that’s reason enough to validate my own views on the matter.

    So the point I was driving towards is that MoP is artistically, Oriental/Asian, specifically Chinese, in it’s art direction, music and setting. It felt so tasteless to me how Blizzard reacted to GW2 with MoP. For the most part MoP was not even based on the original Warcraft series’s lore; except for a brief appearance in one of the games. Also, muddying the waters further, GW2 was hot on the heels of MoP with it’s release and that was published by NCSoft, a Korean publishing company. 

    Kong-Fu panda, a popular children’s movie bears a heavy resemblance to the Pandarian, who started out as a joke! How terrible is it, that people can spend hundreds of dollars and countless weeks in a game-world, only to be seemingly intentionally or unintentionally, mocked by the game developers. The average age of gamers is going up, not down. Why make the game more child friendly as it ages? Like so many things involving Blizzard, I know why I think they’re doing these things but I just don’t agree with it.

    Okay, my “final” reason for quitting. MoP will be marketed towards Asia and specifically China; where there are many WoW players. As SC2 was marketed towards Korea. I felt that the game was no longer primarily focused on an American audience.

    I’ve seen Blizzard become progressively worse as far as their ‘heart’ is considered. I guess a third reason which I just decided to include whilst writing, is this. Since WoTLK, Blizzard has pushed expansions for WoW out quicker and abandoned their “when it’s ready” mentality. Hence, making poorer quality products in my opinion. Blizzard no longer is equal parts art and business. It is mostly business minded now and is becoming increasingly ‘toxic’.

    So for the lazy or busy: my three reasons for me, Justin, quitting WoW, is as follows:

    1. Minecraft changed my perspective on what games could be and what they are.

    2. Market-place ‘pivot’ by Blizzard, towards Asia. 

    -Which is bad because Asia is a tough market to crack and requires more resources. If the resources are spent on Asia then American, Oceanic and European gamers suffer as a result.

    3. Blizzard abandoning, partially or completely in different cases their “when it’s ready” mentality.

    All that being said, I’d still like to say goodbye WoW, I’ll remember you fondly. ;(

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Spears/100000045054762 Joseph Spears

    Its normal fluctuation. Asian Subs are not counted in this total

    • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

      They are counted. Blizz said the loss is mainly from Asia. Maybe stick to facts?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Spears/100000045054762 Joseph Spears

    LoL is killing the gaming industry with its lack of innovation, its by far the most repetitive game ever made and should be taken down before it kills creative gaming minds with running up and down lanes

  • Damir Miric

    I’m just amazed by how many people is still playing wow. I tried pandaria until I got to lvl 90 then I quit. Its simply more of the same every expanison thats why I quit. I guess some people get bored faster then others.

    I would just LOVE to see the stats presented in this manner. How many new players they got every year and how many players that played 2006 they still have. Just a sub number isnt enough to know why people quit. You need much more details for that but thats what we will never see. 

    Also how do you know that what they say is true? I dont belive they have even that many subs. Not that I hate wow far from that I remember it as a game that kept me interested for a long time. If only game quality was at stake I dont think swtor is so much worse than wow. Its not bad but its not that bad. Also many other mmos. 

    I think that people stick to wow because of the addiction. Also beacuse of inabilitiy to play something else. Fear of unkown ?

  • tawnos42

    Far bigger change in terms of gearing between 4.3 and 5.0 was the change from the scaling zone debuff to nothing.  The scaling zone debuff did a good job of keeping reasonable rates of progress for the non-bleeding edge, and in 5.0/5.1 its just been a raidgruop/guild-killing brick wall again.  Presumably LFR is supposed to fill in for that, but I think there were really a lot of people who weren’t going to have the consistent schedule/raidgroup(s) to get through 0% debuff zones but are going to get bored rapidly with LFR.  In spite of all the GBTV negative comments about 4.3 it was a fantastic tier for enabling pug/ad hoc raidgroup formation and MOP really ended that with only LFR to take its place.

  • http://twitter.com/DanielReasor Daniel Reasor

    I don’t know that viewing the subscriptions trend only in the short term, or after Cataclysm, paints the most accurate picture possible.  It was the transition from Wrath of the Lich King to Cataclysm that devastated the subscription numbers.  The CEO of Blizzard managed to stave of the hemorrhaging through the second half of Cataclysm by giving away free copies of Diablo III (and then falsely counting Blizzard Annual Passes as sales of Diablo III in stockholder calls, a shell game that I was surprised to see the stockholders permit him to get away with).

    Publicly held companies don’t need to merely generate a profit; they need to generate enough profit to satisfy the appetites of stockholders, which is what makes this a story worth continuing to follow.  The amount of decline that the stockholders will tolerate is the unknown quantity.  Had I been a stockholder sitting in on the last conference call, I would have been thinking, “WoW didn’t peak at 10 million subscribers; it peaked at 12 million.  I want to hear somebody identify why 2 and a half million subscribers have taken their business elsewhere.  I want to hear someone identify what has been done to bring them back.  I want to hear somebody identify why that hasn’t worked.  And I want to hear someone take responsibility.”

    • http://twitter.com/Hagg3r Michael

      I would imagine we will see another year sub offer at Blizzcon. They will probably give away either the next expansion or the Diablo 3 expansion to those guys. Thing is, I doubt either of those are enticing enough for most people. The Diablo offer was great because if you were buying Diablo anyways it saved you a truck load of cash. I would imagine most of the guys who bought that year sub also regretted it later. A free expansion would help, but people will probably hate that they gave Diablo 3 out at 60$ and an expansion being given for free is only 40$. Not to mention that buying a year and getting the expansion with it is an even longer commitment then the year itself. You have to keep paying if you want to play the expansion. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003264198283 Christopher Davis

    Speaking from personal experience many factors added up to one simple fact – the stuff I enjoy are really no longer there.  Hence, I slowly quit the game over the last 10 months.  During this time, new characters were created in LOTRO, STO, and SWTOR .  Going back in time, the reasons for quiting added up in this order:

    Role playing is often heavily discouraged even on RP servers.  While not a game breaker alone, RP is something I often enjoy.  Rather than being able to enjoy RP, one often faces ridicule and online trolls.  This atmosphere has pushed RP behind closed doors while eliminated advertised world RP events.  I am never one who ‘Pushes’ RP onto others and expect the same treatment from those who do not enjoy RP.  

    Player Vs Player battleground botting can be defined as those who use automation in BGs or those who que BGs solely to grind out honor points.  It is very easy to pick out someone who is eating breakfast while running a BG.  This sort of botting/grinding behavior has killed the fun in battlegrounds.  

    Blizzard has the whole idea of population balancing all wrong!  Some servers needs to be reclassified.  For example a PvP server with 95% Alliance should be reclassified to PvE or merged with another server who has mostly Horde PvPers.  For very busy realms, add layering for Stormwind and Orgimmar.  Some RP servers should be reclassified to PvE or PvP.  Before adding CRZ, the population and classification issues should have been addressed first and foremost.  Bottom line is half the realms should be merged with the top half performers.  The bottom half performers gets decommissioned.  Adding CRZ prematurely has wrecked PvP game play.  CRZ has ruined world RP.  Had Blizzard address population and load balancing first, CRZ would have worked out great.

    Dailies, dailies, more dailies, then yet even more dailies!!  This is the final nail in the coffin for my game characters in WoW.  Once one character got to 90, I have all these new characters in new games.  What am I going to do?  Do the same dailies every day (even on days I can not game) or spend the same amount of time experiencing new worlds and content in LOTRO, STO, and SWTOR?  Blizzard set the dailies system up in a way where one would have to be able to log in everyday for at least 2 hours without fail.  One would have to be able to log in each day for 2 hours for 60 days straight to finish the dailies soon enough for current raid tier.  That comes out to a stunning 3 full 40hr work week in a short time.  For the avid PvEr with a career, family, and other obligations, this is a definite ”No-Go”!  This alone is a major reason why many guilds have seen player activity and log ins fall off like a rock.  This system of grinding is much limited to one who is retired, unemployed, underemployed (working part time), or have minimal life obligations.

    In summary, many players still do enjoy WoW.  What should be expected is the demographics will shift while retaining a large player base   Many people who play WoW are not in it for the game itself but rather the social bonds created over a long period.  How long this online social bond amongst strangers will last for WoW is unknown.  A similar thing happened in Eq2 back in 2008-2009.  Many of the original players are still there.  In theory, WoW will keep a certain percentage of players for many more years to come.  Don’t expect WoW to close down anytime soon.

  • http://twitter.com/Pross182 Pross182

    I came back into WoW pretty hard with the release of MOP. For the longest time it was the dailies keeping me playing. I just felt I HAD to do them, moreso than in any of the other expansions even though I had no idea why this compulsion was upon me. I didn’t care too much about the rewards, I just felt like I had to do them. However when I realized that I really didn’t have to do them, I stopped. Since then I’ve had little to do in the game and now I only log in for raid time. 

  • Andrew Schulte

    To keep it short Olivia,  the game has lost all the appeal it had when I started in vanilla.  Taking raids from 40 to 25 killed the social atmosphere for me.  It turned more into a job then a fun activity.  Everyone became so serious about raiding and every time I left a raid after a night of wiping, It just felt like dad punched mom at the dinner table.  Everyone was silent and angry.

    Also I got tired of paying to stand in Stormwind.

    • Kevyne_Shandris

      The game became Elitist Jerks and Noxxic with Ask Robot on the side.

      People scream, “Now we’re not cookie cutter anymore!” with the new rehased talent system.

      But they still are reading from Elitist Jerks and Noxxic to this day.

      Why?

      Recount and Skada.

      Raids are but dexerity fights now.

      Why?

      DBM.

      We can’t just go into even BGs without an addon like Healers Have to Die to make it almost impossible to find actual healers healing in PvP anymore (bots are everywhere, and the new trend is having 5 so-called healers, but only 2 are really healing deal…and those are the ones the Healers Have to Die users focus on). So in PvP to even try to win I’m not healing because the bots don’t cap flags or take towers, your healer is doing it instead. -_-

      The game essentially is becoming automatic, be it being a very bot friendly game, to preset profiles so the raid leader who defines a good player is but a preset itself.

      Meanwhile, oblivious to it all Blizzard goes right back tailoring WoW around heroic raids, again. Making a new batch of fruit flavored Kool-Aid.

      After 8 years don’t folks think something needs to change, like the formula that keeps folks living on addons and presets to even play (because if you don’t have them, you’ll never join in the reindeer games?).

      Some carrots need to be cut from the string and buried forever.

  • http://twitter.com/thavleifrim nathan law

    i dropped my sub over Christmas because i was away, and i just can’t motivate myself to resub, i’m just beyond caring at this point.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bill-Williams/1781575779 Bill Williams

    I can’t believe more people aren’t playing Mists. It is way better than Cata. I would call it the BEST expansion ever brought out . There should be NO reason for people to stop playing WoW with an expansion as great as this.

  • http://twitter.com/Shaniaxx Shania

    Maybe its not because game is so old, but because players are much older too.

    I still paying for sub, but not playing, not because game is boring, but because I lost social connection with people in game and I don’t want to spend time to create new ones. 

    • http://twitter.com/Hagg3r Michael

      This is an excellent point. A lot of the core players are starting to leave now due to time constraints. 

  • ROTOMON

    I still sub to wow but as of lately i went back to warhammer online and havent had a single complaint to be honest, been bouncing between that and TSW.

  • http://twitter.com/AlteraFFXIV Alexander Larsen

    I found WOW had lost the things I liked about it, and by Cataclysm I just couldnt take it anymore. I tried the other MMOs around but they couldnt grab my attention for long, except for that one underdog MMO FFXIV. Which I ended up loving as it has all the stuff I loved in MMORPG and things I loved from normal FF games :D

    Currently waiting for A Realm Reborn Beta and looking forward to it going Live :D

  • http://www.facebook.com/tudor.simu.9 Tudor Simu

    Sigh….. this question is nothing more than troll bait. Half the people out there cant even create a logical train of thought, let alone be objective. Whether it’s blaming or defending the game, it almost always boils down to bad/incomplete/illogical arguments.

  • http://twitter.com/Hagg3r Michael

    It really is no surprise that subs dropped again. They were dropping every quarter until right after the expansion launched. The only reason they went back up was because of the expansion. The quarter we are looking at here is starting to include the people who tried out the expansion and quit pretty quickly afterwards. Next quarter the drop will probably be worse. 

    WoW is an old game and what is going to happen is the max amount of players the game has is going to drop more and more every expansion. By next expansion I suspect the game will be sitting at around 6-7M. Once the expansion rolls out they will get another burst of subs bringing it up to probably around 8.5M and then it will drop again. Yeah, my crystal ball is awesome. 

  • http://twitter.com/YggyD YggyD

    A big thing I think a lot of people in very stable guilds dismiss is the utter difficulty it has been this expansion in finding quality guilds.  My guild for the most part went completely belly up during Cata thanks to a years long grind on Dragon Soul so I went on a guild hunt.  Here are the options that I have experienced in the almost 6 months now I have been though in looking:

    1.  The great guild on a shit awful server – The people are great, you have skill, you have leadership, and you can make connection with the folks but the guild utterly dies or has 50% turnover every couple weeks because people want to go to other servers that are more active or simply quit of being board because you can’t even pug a Sha group more then the ONE, yes ONE, that goes down a week and if you miss it peace on that for the week.  You can’t buy flasks or potions on the AH.  The server is horrid.  But the guild is great.  It just can’t sustain anything more then its foundation will hold sadly.  I know this isn’t a 100% case but it has been where my luck has lead me.

    2.  The guild that is on its last leg – You get over their and everything looks great.  Active forum community.  The first few weeks of raids go great.  People seem cool, raids are going smooth, you get some PVP time in with the new crews, and then suddenly 12 people leave and you learn it was all known about and planned for a month or two.  Back to the drawing board.  You recruit replacements in all blues and you are farming MSV normal again until the people that took over go nuts and bounce out too for greener fields as well.

    3.  The shit guild on a great server – This one usually is the trap you fall into after getting pulled into number 1 or 2 because you figure if anything goes wrong you at least still have an active server to play on which for the most part it true.  But then you find yourself bouncing between these horrid guilds filled with ego build nut cases that they are the next coming on this massively packed server.  My experience was on Illidan and I loved the experience of seeing Blood Legion players, it was awesome to know that guy/gal right there in the AH is one of the best in the world, but when I join a guild that is on my level I don’t expect to be that guy in the AH that is a member of Blood Legion and it happens to often with these here today and gone the next guilds on these servers.  

    Then after you bounce between 2-3 of these in a guild hunt, and to no fault of your own, you are suddenly known as a guild hopper and unable to apply to any new guilds for 6 months or so if you are lucky.  So as guilds fail, even after quality research and commitment, you suddenly find yourself labeled as the problem.  So you get stuck in a really hard place.  Not to mention your gear level starts to lag behind a little (I am talking 499 here, and people turn and laugh at it) and even less guilds want to talk to you.  Something honestly needs to get done about how recruitment is handled for guilds in this game or I fear it will eventually peter out due to way to much bloat and no enough tools to see though it.  I seriously thing server mergers would do a TON of good to even though they typically are known only as bad things.  WAY WAY to many great guilds are dying or suffering on really bad servers but won’t do anything about it because either money issues or server community issues that they feel they cannot leave behind.  Anyways that’s how I feel its been going lately. ;)

    • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

      Blizzard is counting on the guildhops from players between servers to make them more money.  

  • http://twitter.com/Stone_LX9 Stone LX9

    WoW is just old, I played it for years I enjoyed my time in it – but it was time to move on. 

    I’m playing TERA at the moment – I’m really enjoying myself so far.

  • http://www.facebook.com/banners23 Daniel Thomas Long

    I believe that this is merely an ill timed subscriber quarterly report.  I personally know of 4 players that haven’t played in a months time, yet plan on coming back when the new content arrives.  World of Warcraft subscribers fluctuate for several reasons and this should be expected when dealing with such vast numbers.  At over 10 million subs 400 thousand “lost” subscribers is only 4%.  While there are alternate titles for the MMO community to check out, most players will eventually find their way back to wow.  Once other MMO’s are held to the same standard as wow they fail, and will continue to do so until blizzard retires this game or releases Titan.  Assuming Titan actually exists.

  • Kevyne_Shandris

    There’s a lot of ways Blizzard can improve WoW for the masses and draw people into the game again. But it all depends on three factors:
     
    1. Culture willing to change.
    2. Blizzard fixing the “gear means everything” mentality since vanilla.
    3. Everything is a “competition” (some gamers actually don’t like “comfort zone” changes, they prefer some consistency in a world full of tormoil — games are an escape from the real world).
     
    Without that the same o’ same o’ will be dished out to players who prefer mouse wheel gaming.
     
    Want a fresher feeling game? Have to change some core designs. Players mention the BG bots (and now public dungeon multiboxers) ruining gameplay, for example. For gamers who have little time to play, but like to rumble during lunch break or for an hour a day BGs are perfect. But what happens when they do queue? A thirty account multiboxer is in their BG making it impossible to win, and if the guy leaves as it’s a waste of time being farmed without a way to counter being one shotted constantly, he’s docked a 15min penalty to queue again. Same is going on in heroic dungeons and LFR…people wanting others to carry toons that’s not participating by much but there solely for the loot, at others expense. This is why LFR is such a mess, 25 players in name 16 could be actual players, which means meeting the enrage timer sometimes impossible.
     
    Secondly, despite the constant threads on WoW forums about loot ninjas and other problems with distributing loot in public queues/raids, Blizzard stubbornly sticks to this model that encourages it. Yesterday was in the heroics trying to get some valor, and a hunter needed on a tanking trinket that clearly has tanking stats worthless to hunters. To Blizzard it’s perfect to have secondary specs get primary spec/role gear first…even from the very players that got the boss down for them. -_-
     
    See the problems? Blizzard is rewarding the worst behavior instead of teaching players who seem to not have home training how to play with others well. A lot of the flak in WoW is because these guys are allowed to play like that without consequences. Other MMOs weed those out from higher tier content, Blizzard even encourages the behavior. It happening once a week or rarer is a laugh. When encountered daily on and on and on? Unsub and look for greener pastures as it waste the players time and dime and Blizzard is tone deaf about it.

    There’s no one thing that turns players off to leave the game, it’s a multitude of them that’s so in a gamer’s face it can’t be ignored. Educate players — and not protect bad behavior is groups — is how to retain players otherwise tired of the repeated content for months. If I’m happy, I’m happy with others and it passes down the line deal, and I’m still subscribed as it’s a happy experience…not a torture chamber.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.sekersky Andrew Sekersky

    Blizzard does a lot of things right. Not just with WoW, but with Diablo and Starcraft as well. The problem with why I, for one, haven’t logged into WoW for a month and a half, and will not be re-upping my sub next month is because what they don’t do well they do really, really bad. 

    I’m talking, mainly, about PR, Customer Service, etc. I’ve never, ever, seen a game company, sub based, buy to play, or free to play, with such a horrible outlook on the service they provide to customers as Blizzard. Even Bioware does this significantly better with SWtOR, and it’s free model is horrendous! Blizzard simply doesn’t care to listen, where other companies, like Trion or ArenaNet go out of their way to give those who pay for the service what they want, Blizzard seemingly sits on it’s throne and says “if you don’t like it, we don’t care.” 

    The absence of rep tabards is a gleaming example of this. Ghostcrawler’s attitude when he replies to tweets of people wanting them back has turned into pretty much “stfu, don’t care.” It’s horribly short sighted when you think of they fact that we’re paying monthly for a service. Think of anything in the service industry, I’ll use McDonalds as an example: if you asked for a BigMac with extra pickles and the teller said “stfu, don’t care” like GC does, would you keep going to that McDs? No, you’d go to another, or another chain, one where you can get what you want without being talked down to by the teller, the manager, or the owner.

    That’s WoW’s problem for me. The game is fun, the engine is great, Xrealm zones aren’t that bad, but for me, the fact that the developers have time and time again failed to realize they’re in the service industry, and how they treat us is paramount to the company’s perception, is why I will be leaving, happily, for another McDonalds, one that actually gives me extra pickles, hold the mayo, and an Elin Berzerker figurine in my happy meal.

  • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

    I would like to know why some posters here are allowed to bring out numbers that are totally fictional (like 10 million MOP sales) and posts that actually point out the only official numbers when it comes to MOP sales are being deleted without any aparent reasons.

  • Rob1003

    For me MoP has to be the absolute worst expansion in terms of forcing people to grind for alt gearing. To keep it to a reasonable amount of effort I ended up splitting factions between my alts so they could each have a primary faction they were aligned to.
    Also, the shared zones really devalues the subscription’s worth in my opinion. People were on the server they chose and paid for a complete server. I gave up paying for this shared approach as it was just plain awful for node mining and if you want to collect things like Netherwing Eggs for getting that extra coloured drake in the set FORGET IT!

  • IrishBrewed

    Im just dropping in to say Olivia is a very pretty lady! That is all…

  • Chris Catone

     Despite the fact that I think WoW plays like a P.T.Barnum quote, start ‘worrying’ about the numbers when they approach their competition (Rift maybe?  Are there any other sub-games these days?)

  • Karizee

    Well, GW2 outsold MoP – I guess that’s where everyone is going.

    • http://twitter.com/Magmaros Magmaros

      except, that you know, that game is garbage, has 0 endgame and that’s not where people went. also I highly doubt that GW2 outsold MoP

      • Karizee

        But it did outsell MoP and is currently the fastest growing MMO in the west – in fact, it’s the fastest growing MMO ever made (not looking at Chinese markets).
        The endgame is there, it’s just not in the form of raids which is fine since so few people raid these days.

        • Sharuko

          Mists of Pandaria sold 2.7 million copies during its first week, please get your facts straight.  It took GW2 more than half a year to sell 3 million copies.  So no GW2 wasn’t even close to WoW in terms of sales.

          GW2 is also the MMO that saw the worst decline in MMO history.  70% to 80% drop in player activity since launch.  95% of the zones are completely empty, 200 people in sPvP during peak times.  Fansites like GW2Guru and the GW2 subreddit saw a 70% drop in traffic since launch.  Virtually no interest on sites like Twitch, most fan websites and youtube channels shutdown or have moved on to other games.  A massive exodus to better MMOs like Tera.

          So please, if you want to claim something speak the truth.  Just ask me for sources, I will provide tons.

          • Karizee

            It hasn’t been out over 6 months yet, who is making things up?  lol
            Of course Guru saw a drop – the game LAUNCHED and so did the official forums (which are 5x as busy as WoW forums btw)
            But if you want to compare fansites, look at the reddits.
            GW2, less than 6 months has 79,655 followers with 918 online atm
            WoW over 8 yrs has 81,164 followers with 550 online atm

            Everytime I login to GW2 I’m shuffled to an overflow server, it has the most active playerbase of any MMO I’ve ever seen.

          • Sharuko

            I like how you ignored that fact that you lied about GW2 outselling MoP.  Secondly, the game was available for purchase before release so yes it has been 6 months.

            Yeah the GW2 subreddit is almost as big as WoW because Arenanet pushed it hard and advertised it.  They even as far as using that as a customer support center with tons of AMA with the CEO for publicity.  WoW on the other hand has hundreds of fansites including MMO Champion and WoW Head and those were established well before Reddit even existed.  

            I know you are lying or trolling about the last part, because I see tons of threads and people asking for “underflow” servers because there is no one to play with.  People go as far as to find groups on Reddit because they can’t find it in game.  Server mergers incoming.   I log on sometimes to get a laugh and it feels like I am playing a single player game.

          • Kevyne_Shandris

            What I hope, seriously hope is that not another site that talks about WoW is reduced to the WoW troll wars seen on other WoW fansites.

            The negativity to defend addictions looks ugly. If folks are defensive if there’s another fast food chain on the same street, there’s a problem.

            Let’s have a more honest discussion about WoW that’s not a drool fest. This is a pro/con discussion about WoW’s population numbers, not trade chat.

          • Sharuko

            Agreed.

          • http://twitter.com/Critzkreig Cody Moody

            An honest conversation. WoW’s subscriber count fell 300,000 in Q2 2011 between Patch 4.1 and Patch 4.2. So this “dip” is no surprise between 5.1 and 5.2.

          • Spammerbam

             I log on Tera sometimes to get a laugh and it feels like I am playing a game from 8 years ago.

            Though I’m not sure about people finding groups on Reddit. Gw2LFG is the site that everyone uses; currently 2,126,842 total LFG’s created — everyday there are thousands of posts.

            But about MoP outselling GW2, I wouldn’t doubt it at all. Blizzard will always have fans that buys their games during launch. I actually like products from Blizzard because they make quality games and not just a recycled MMO with a slapped on “action-combat”.

            “I know you are lying or trolling..”
            ^ Yeah, doesn’t that sound like someone?

          • Sharuko

            Yeah I log into Tera and pretty much see former GW2 players that feel freed from their previous “MMO”. 

            They are amazed that a game like Tera has all the features of a MMO.  They are amazed they don’t have to go to some random sites to look for groups since it is all built into the system, yeah in the game.

            They are amazed there is progression, they are amazed their is group cohesion and not zergs.  They are amazed at both PvP and PvE content instead of fluff.

            I always laugh when I think of Mike O’Brien saying he wants to beat WoW.  He couldn’t even beat Tera, Rift or SWTOR.  GW2 affecting WoW?  GW2 is a joke in the MMO community except for a few people on this site and Massively.

          • Spammerbam

             Of course Tera has all the features of a MMO, like I said it’s recycled. The “amazed” people you’re talking about are kids who apparently have never played a real MMO like WoW and have finally found a nice F2P game. GW2 shouldn’t even be compared to MMO’s as it is its own game. If GW2 has all the features of a MMO, then people might as well play WoW.

            I always meet ex-WoW players that have been bored and exhausted from playing traditional MMO’s. GW2 is the casual game they can finally relax with.

            It’s hilarious to find you trolling about how the fan websites are dropping in traffic, when in reality, I go to find fan websites for Tera and there’s absolutely none.

            You talk about GW2 having server merges, while Tera has a whooping number of 6 servers. Wow.

          • Sharuko

            And now you are getting the point.  Tera has features people expect in MMOs, it has things like dungeon finder.  While GW2 took the MMO genre back 5 years, I mean it didn’t have the ability to do rollbacks until December.

            And yes GW2 is barely an MMO as you said.  It is a wannabe MMO.  It isn’t casual it is super super super lazy and casual.

            I like the fact you are comparing GW2 to Tera.  When Tera was a 35 million dollar game made by a indie company, while GW2 is backed by a multi-billion dollar publisher.  To bad you can’t compete with the big dogs huh?  I wonder what happens when NCSoft stock keeps falling?  Forget server mergers they might close GW2 down. Like they did with CoH.

          • Spammerbam

            Features can always be added in the future, so trolling about that is irrelevant.

            GW is already competing with WoW. While Tera? Not even close to Rift or SWOTOR. A good game to compare it with is Lineage 2.

            The reason why I point out Tera is because you like to Troll on GW2, while the Tera-ble game you’re playing is not even worth mentioning in any news article.

            Trolling about stocks falling? Meh.

          • Sharuko

            Just a reminder ““We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO.” – Arenanet LOL

          • Spammerbam

             Let’s be honest, WoW will always have more subscribers, even if it is slow dying.

            GW2 drew in a big crowd with all the advertisements, and with such a big crowd there’s bound to be much hatred from addicted MMO veterans as they expect so much similar to what they’re use to.

            GW2 won’t even be close to taking over the crown, but it can be the next big “MMO wannabe” rather than a recycled traditional one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jordan.dixon.75 Jordan Dixon

    Loot changes

    This is the biggy. I am a person that works 40-50 hours a week, so I only have about 3-4 hours to spend on WoW per day, if I am even able to log on during that day. Sometimes i come home from a 10 hour work day, and just want to relax with a book or TV.

    This means that I don’t want to spend those 3-4 hours, if i do login, grinding dailies that feel like I’m working again. They are a chore. They are not fun. If i wanted to repeat the same thing over and over every day, or every other day, I would just stay at work.

    Therefore, I am stuck with only getting gear from Heroic Dungeons and LFR, since I do not have the time to be a reliable full-time raider. However with the new LFR loot changes, I still have not been able to get a single character above ilvl 470, because of the luck I am having with drops. I have had my “main” sitting at ilvl 469 for three weeks, because I get 6 straight bags of coins in MSV.

    I would say i hit max level sometime in November, and in 3 months I haven’t even seen the 2nd and 3rd raid in this tier.

    I am sure there are others out there like this, and I am sure those are the people who are not re-subbing because they feel like they are not getting anywhere. WoW is supposed to be about the “gearing your character up to feel more powerful even after max level”, but that appeal is lost when you haven’t gotten a single piece of gear for a character in three weeks.

  • shadydog66

    These 9.6 million subs is pure PR . I live in north america and play on us servers. I don’t play in asia so they dont matter to me. What are the north america number of subs. It feels like that is where the loss is. Losing 400k US subs versus world wide is a BIG difference

    • Kevyne_Shandris

      When there’s over 251 servers, and at least 1/4 of them are low population, and Blizzard is resorting to CRZ (Cross Realm Zones – a method of multi-server playing) and RealID/Battletags to have a “lived in look” of zones, yes there’s a population problem on US realms.

      Sure RealID/Battletags can help get folks together cross-server, but at a price of privacy. Once you share your real life name and email address to just one person (RealID), it’s shared with everyone. You lost control of your privacy even. It took some players datamining Facebook to show a dev what datamining personal data could do, for RealID as it originally was planned to be was canned — fine if you and I are screwed with dinner time weirdos showing up at the door, but not a Blizzard employee, especially with that death threat warning on the forum that was up for months.

      Battletags you share to another every alt you have on the account — and both RealID and Battletags don’t offer optouts. It’s Google+Facebook style probing of all your keystrokes, and you never having downtime to farm mats or even reconfigure your UI in peace.

      On fansites the fanbois rush in and do their best to spin the numbers, downplay RealID/Battletag privacy concerns/CRZ headache threads…and almost all threads that doesn’t favor Blizzard and the numbers game or promoting the game are closed (on one major WoW alternative posting forum, the game is bait/report. Which is used to clear anyone who doesn’t tow the company PR line. WoW forums the reports do the same tactic, so if you see threads upon threads with post deleted by XYZ, they’ve been permanently banned from posting even — just look up Kevyne from Shandris server for an example, over 1600 posts deleted, and it wasn’t from me). Be it on the WoW forums or other fansites that depend on being close to Blizzard for their paychecks this PR clamp down is being done hard (and don’t believe for a moment when they claim, “no Blizzard employee visits here”, as now two of the main sites have a dev [was current, then was fired] and CS representative on them). WoTLK and before the forums were much more open to pro/con discussions. Now it’s a capital Kumbaya moment.

      It’s 100% pure marketing hype.

      So when folks scream WoW has 9.6 million players, what they’re not telling folks are that’s the total worldwide. In WoW US-Oceanic-Brazil only play together. EU only plays with EU players. China only plays in their market. So it’s not all 9.6 million playing together. It’s playing the numbers game to not scare players away of any thought there’s problems in Wonderland with having a consistent population base.

      • http://twitter.com/Critzkreig Cody Moody

        CRZ and Battletags/RealID are the best ways to let me play with my friends whenever I want. I’d trade the “community” we had on our vanilla servers for CRZ/RealID any day of the week.

        • Kevyne_Shandris

          Question for you is: why weren’t your friends on your server (or should I say, why aren’t you on their server?). You do know actual friends stay and play together, right?

          My family plays in the game, and despite Shandris isn’t the top 10 realms in progression, wouldn’t think of leaving them for some carrot of gear. If we are to play on another realm, we’ll play together.

          RealID/Battletags aren’t a replacement for playing with real life friends and family.

  • http://www.facebook.com/C4darkmane Andrew Clive Early

    i cant afford to replace my laptop at the mo, soooo thats stopping me from playing as i get 1-10fps.

    • Kevyne_Shandris

      Once they put dangers in the skies, watch the subs go bye-bye. Because even PvPers use flight to get away when other 90s go after their ganking butts.

  • Stellan47

    A couple of reasons that I can think of.  First, of course, there is more and more competition for WOW as time goes by. 

    Second, and I was thinking about this when Blizzard announced the port of D3 to PS 3 and 4.  There is a growing decline in the sales of Windows PC.  Many people are going to IOS or Android tablets as their main computer and not using Windows PC at all.   It is certainly possible that full blown desk top gamer PCs will start
    to be  dedicated game machines instead of the only computer in
    the house.  And, thus, they will become ‘niche’ items rather than something everyone
    has. In that case, consoles like the PS 4 and the new Xbox are going
    to start looking a lot more attractive to game companies and to gamers since consoles are generally cheaper than game PCs.

    Companies like Blizzard may already be factoring this in in their decisions.  Hence the announcement for the D3 port and the rumor that Titan will be for both the PC and the new Xbox.

     

  • http://twitter.com/Sylaurin Ryan Hoerber

    Most of the Sub loss was in the Asian market. Gold selling in WoW isn’t profitable as newer games so most of the gold sellers have left. Also the US has a trade embargo on recently  a couple countries that Blizzard had to cut off.  The Western markets aren’t dropping many  subs.

  • QueeFacism

    maybe if they wernt such ripoffs. buy expansions + membership and that there are alot better games that dont cost as much and are alot more fun.

  • george

    there are a lot of views on the decline of wow for me and my guildies the frustration comes from the the player that joins a raid for the first time and gets the gear you have been trying for for months the first time and then months later youstill dont get it tenacity needs to be built into the system you cant expect people to keep trying while watching noobs pick up gear you have been grinding for

  • Mark Durak

    I left because the game has become so dumbed down that it was not worth my time anymore.

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