Lazard research finds Mists of Pandaria's sales to be disappointing.


Written by: (Twitter @oliviadgrace - ) | September 28, 2012 1:06 pm

Lazard research finds Mists of Pandaria's sales to be disappointing.
109 Comments

Lazard Capital Markets’ Senior Internet and Gaming Research Analyst Atul Bagga‘s research has found Mists of Pandaria’s sales to be disappointing. This story has spread like wildfire around the gaming sites, with the Warcraft naysayers likely having a field day with this new information.

However, looking at Bagga’s output, based on the very, very minimal information that is out in the public domain, he’s not really comparing apples to apples, as we used to say back in my days working in private equity real estate.

For starters, Bagga’s figures don’t include digital sales whatsoever. That’s right, not a single digital sale is factored in to his analysis. This is despite the fact that Mists is the first expansion that offers a digital collectors’ edition, while Cataclysm stopped at a digital download. Bagga doesn’t think that digital sales will make a sufficient impact to rectify the lower-than-average retail copies sold. This is an interesting angle, given that the digital sales’ impact on pre-orders of physical copies has meant that major retailers cite it as their reason for no longer requiring a midnight release opening.

And, put simply, digital sales mean players aren’t dependent on stores or delivery services or similar concerns to get their game installed and running the very second Mists launched. Furthermore, as a social group, we gamers aren’t renowned for going outside in the middle of the night to head to a store when an option exists that means we can stay at home!

Additionally, the Cataclysm sales figures of 3.3 million on day one, which Bagga compares the Mists physical copies sales figures to, include digital downloads, according to Blizzard’s press release at the time.

What’s more, Bagga’s figures on the retail sales are an “estimate”. What does this mean? What is this estimate based upon? If a corporation the size of Lazard are basing their capital markets actions on estimates with no back-up at all, we may have a problem.

It might not be surprising that Bagga is somewhat negative about Warcraft’s latest expansion, given his previous downgrade of Blizzard stock based on findings from an online survey of an impressive 381 gamers, and his assertions that, as sales projections can be made from the popularity of trailers, Mists will prove to be a damp squib.

Given the server queues and login difficulties that players are experiencing worldwide, it seems unlikely that only a little over 700,000 people have purchased the new expansion. It seems it would be pertinent to wait for figures with a bit more clout and a bit more backing before damning Mists to the annals of time.


  • http://twitter.com/Threefiddie Landon Loper

    Why do they even put out a report that obviously doesn’t include Digital sales which we know there are a ton of. 

  • Nick Cattane

    I’m not playing WoW at the moment, considering it though – and it seems quite stupid to not include digital sales.

  • http://twitter.com/prism2525 prism2525

    *cough* Guild Wars 2 *cough*

    • Anarwen

       Yeah. 15 min of Guild Wars 2? WTF?
      Seriously tho: does this number include that digital sales on MoP started 1 month ago when Guild Wars launched? (maybe THAT’S why the GW 2 footage)

  • http://twitter.com/Phil_Lash Phil Lash

    haha the vid is showing GW2.  But yeah…not including digital downloads makes this info not legit.

  • http://twitter.com/prism2525 prism2525

    Also man, why is GW2 footage being shown on a piece of WoW news?

  • http://www.facebook.com/craig.gafoor Craig Gafoor

    GUILDWARS 2 it may not be perfect …YET….but its better than WOW n a bunch of pandas by MILESSSSS! ….long live the new king of mmos….cant roll or dodge ya way outa that one blizzard! lols

  • http://www.facebook.com/JRPSA Jim Page

    WTF are they showing guild wars PVP on a MoP/WoW new story?

  • St_Draco

    lol, GW2 b-roll in WoW story

  • tommythepower

    People who is actually still playing that garbage(wow) was bying the box, pretty sure there was not so many sales in the west that was digital. Players who is still fans of the game will get the box most times. Only people like you who still talk about this joke of a game……

  • http://www.facebook.com/inkogni.alex Inkogni Alex

    but it is really LOW on retail copy, i must always have the box MikeB. THE BOX! WHATS INSIDE THE BOX!?! didnt buy MoP, wasnt sure if its worth my time/money AND i have GW2, SC2, Boarder Lands (what other games that end with 2… ) DOTA2, LoL and a ton of other pc games i cant remember atm. no netflix tho, its racist towards my country /Help
    who else here was burned by Cata content/launch that made them not get the game?
    Under a million or barely making it, just barely (1.02mil maybe)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Long/100002864143910 Terry Long

    Why do you show GW2 during the whole “WoW News” video? comical.

  • http://twitter.com/Hoigwai Hoigwai

    Wow tommy in one post you attack the biggest game out and the site that is report news, I think a mod should make sure since you have nothing to add to the conversation that you go away.

    This is a trolling observation on the part of lazard since they are not including digital sales.

  • http://twitter.com/Threefiddie Landon Loper

    Explain why GW2 has  taken such a huge hit in activity this week?

    Oh MoP happened.

    • Josh Rosenvelt

      Wow currently only 3rd on xfire, it was permanently number 1 from tbc – beginning of cata. GW2 even held number 2 spot on xfire for 2 weeks. Things aren’t looking good for MoP. GW2 still in 4th-5th place after a month.

    • ssjjr21

      “A huge hit”?  Weird cuz I haven’t noticed any difference on my server.  Not to mention my cousin is playing both MoP and GW2, and he says he cannot look at WoW right now after playing GW2 for a month  :p

    • H S

       server was still having a que at 8am on a friday. I may play half the time I did a few weeks ago, but I am still seeing people log on every day. Just fewer hours.

      I know myself, will never go back to WoW. I just can’t see myself ever doing it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Long/100002864143910 Terry Long

    Now the video has went AWOL

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1442989706 Jonpaul Wharrier

     I quit WoW to play GW2 and it is much better, I also know lots of other people which did the same. We won’t be buying MoP. lol

    • Nick Cattane

      I did the same – but you would be considered quite stupid to think these statistics have any weight without digital sales included.

    • http://www.facebook.com/inkogni.alex Inkogni Alex

      Yaaay, more GW2 players

  • http://twitter.com/loopnotdefined loopnotdefined

    For Diablo 3, digital sales were four times greater than retail sales, and that’s NOT including Annual Pass (which would put it at five times greater).  I’d hold off on any conclusions ’til the final numbers are released, which should be early- or mid-next week (Blizzard announces sales 6-8 days after release, going back to Wrath).

  • http://www.facebook.com/inkogni.alex Inkogni Alex

    i kinda remember there to be a video of 18min of ChinahwKing, O SNAP.
    Baka has gone missing!! RALLY THE TROOPS

  • DoctorOverlord

    Digital sales are not included?   And this guy claims to be a gaming market analyst?    Rightttt.    This person deserves to be filed under the ‘clueless hack’ category.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Brookens/100003510262900 Dustin Brookens

      Something like 98% of the WoW playerbase buys the games in the store. Just because you are savvy and watch shows about the game doesnt mean that EVERYBODY sees the benefit of buying it online. Most people want a physical box.

      • http://twitter.com/loopnotdefined loopnotdefined

        So 98% of WoW players buy in-store, but only 20% of Diablo 3 players (an actual statistic that doesn’t include Annual Pass) buy in-store?  You give yourself *way* too much credit.

        • Revanhavoc

          Well said.

        • DoctorOverlord

          That must mean Diablo 3 players are so much more “savvy” than WoW players LOL 

          ActiBlizz will report the digital sales eventually then there should be some firings at that investment firm in their gaming market division.

          Of course, if MoP’s overall sales numbers were breaking any records ActiBlizz would have made an announcement by now but nonetheless I think not counting digital sales in today’s market shows an extreme level of ignorance.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nik666 Nikolai Tzolev

    A bunch of GW2 players not playing GW2 but trolling here? Seems reasonable, as usual.

    • Jay

       Can’t play GW2 24/7… Even though I’m sure some have tried. :(

      Don’t worry, Blizzard has plenty of customers to keep them fed.

  • http://twitter.com/HallusH HallusH

    server’s Q dont mean nothing. even at wow best days there wasn’t one moment there were 100% of the people online at the same time on all servers.
    so no one can state how many players it takes to fill out a server to make it go to Q mode. and usually Q is there to not hammer the login server and not the actual realm server.
    i didn’t buy MoP and not even plan to. even that before was huge fan of the game.
    mainly classic.

    GW2 took a hit cause there’s no major content there as end game for hardcore players
    but the’re many new people that floating in and play the game. cause even on the lowest pop servers i see now all zones have people in them.

    GW2 is good for people that want to play it for some time while still playing other games cause theres no sub for it.
    and wow with the sub for me feels like i need to work to get most out of my money.

  • http://twitter.com/izumicookie Izumi

    Digital sales are still sales, right? Isn’t that the whole point of selling it digitally? To offer another form of purchase? In store or no store, money was exchanged and a copy of the game was still sold and at the end of the day, going to the store to buy the box is pretty useless for anything other than having the disc as a collector’s item or reinstalling the game if you have a crappy internet connection because MoP was preloaded onto everyone’s computer that patched WoW to 5.0 – it just couldn’t be accessed without a MoP key being attached to your account.

    MoP digital edition was just the player buying a key to access the expansion content. No download needed. Even new players don’t have to download it because when you download “vanilla WoW” it installs the whole game, you just can’t access the expansion content until you have the appropriate keys attached to your account.

    Also, what would be really lame and I kind of think Blizzard would do this… Is if they added the retail, digital and annual pass numbers together for Diablo 3. Why do I think it is lame? Because annual pass numbers weren’t sales, they were marketed as the free carrot on a stick for locking into a subscription to WoW for 12 months, unless behind the scenes they pulled a corporate smoke screen and claimed it as Diablo 3 sales with a discount to WoW subscription for 12 months – leaving the customer to think it was free Diablo. *Puts on Tinfoil Hat*

    • http://twitter.com/loopnotdefined loopnotdefined

      Just FYI, Blizzard’s D3 figures announcement specifically stated how many sales were actual purchases and how many were from the Annual Pass.

      • http://twitter.com/izumicookie Izumi

        You think just because they wrote it that is miraculously true? Big companies write words all the time, doesn’t mean that nothing is going on behind the scenes because it is not like you “the consumer/little guy” are going to know any different.

        Just like when they trade marked “Mists of Pandaria” one of the Blizzard guys said it was not the next expansion in a way that he tried to allude to it being something else.

        Writing on the internet mean nothing these days. Writing is just about as useful as a video and photo editing while on the internet. You can’t believe everything you read, write or watch.

        • Ravenstorm

          We’ll see in about 6 months then, when Blizz can’t hide no more behind their Diablo 3 scheme. We may be little consumer guys, but when a game sucks it just sucks. And Diablo 3 was very alluring yet also the biggest black suckhole in the recent gaming galaxy. Combined with the most sucky Catacalism -Gary vocabulary- endcontent, well… I blame those investor money crunching monkey stockholders, we may be little consumers but if we don’t pay then they are screwed. Don’t mess with us. We’re your bakers, butchers, garbage handlers, lawyers, programmers, truckers, police men, military, post men, we are everywhere! Pay attention. Give us good games. *throws hands in the air and leaves*

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Brookens/100003510262900 Dustin Brookens

    Gamebreaker obviously gets paid by Blizzard to spin these articles. IF Gary had read that there were 1 /3rd of sales of Cata we would see a MoP box getting thrown around the room.

  • Eaker82

    i agree with him! wow sucks

  • jayremy

    It’s a bad analysis in general, but I think MoP will not be as big of success and will decline.

    Cataclysm was such a failure and GW2 is actually decent competition directly to WoW along with better alternative games of today compared to the online gaming slump that was 2006-2010, (perhaps 2011 too). No faith and willingness to return since I they haven’t played since early cata or WotLK. 2012-2013 will be better for MMO gamers who don’t want merely cheap WoW-clones.

    I think MoP is vastly better than Cataclysm but even so when I keep thinking “I could’ve done better” than what Blizzard has done on so much decision making (and not just for my own needs) it makes me not intrigued with the game.

    Like Diablo 3, Blizzard’s past titles sell their current titles have a Diablo 4 come out and more non-revolutionary to the game expansions to WoW and it will never come back. Starcraft, Diablo and especially Warcraft RTS series were epic and gave Blizzard their popularity to ever increasingly build from. Starcraft 2 has some spark in it still, but it has always had a much more narrow appeal.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kyle-Eggers/100000868131517 Kyle Eggers

    MoP will hit with the digital downloads around I would say 1million to 1.2million it the first week.  And a problem with how Blizzard sold their digital copies is that you can only download it through Blizzard.  There is no way to download it through any other retailers including, Amazon which is the biggest retailer in the U.S. And also WoW is on a decline they aren’t picking up any new subscriptions and haven’t been for a few years now, WoW is slowly bleeding away subscriptions, and will continue to because of FTP and it is just a older game.

  • http://twitter.com/DaveC524 Dave

    Well, first of all, this firm is going off of math that assumes that 50% of total sales are based off of retail sales (or maybe some other statistic), and that assuming there were 750k retail sales, that would allude to 1.5 million total sales. Now, looking at how there were 3 million total cata sales initially, this would assume that mists sold half of what cata sold initially. Now, this is of course assuming a whole lot, but seeing how digital sales figures could only be obtained by Blizzard which would only come out during the next conference call, if at all, this is basically the best estimation you could come up with right now. Also, something to keep in mind, the success of mmos or their xpacs is typically measured by things like player retention as opposed to initial sales (SWTOR).

  • http://www.facebook.com/GLopez12 German Lopez

    I really doubt digital sales are going to quadruple sales.

    Also, Blizzard’s lack of bragging is indicative of disappointing sales. Blizzard bragged about crazy sales figures with TBC, WOTLK, and Cataclysm. They’re completely quiet now.

    Either way, the massive drop in sales doesn’t mean the game is dying. It’s declining, but it will stay afloat for a long time. It will still be a fun, fulfilling experience for longtime WOW players.

    Also, 381 is a good sample size. The actual sample — meaning online gamers instead of MMO gamers — seems sketchy, though. I recommend looking up how statistics work before commenting on polling in the future.

    • http://twitter.com/izumicookie Izumi

      Blizzard aren’t going to brag until they get all of their numbers in. Usually one week (7 days) of sales like they always have done, just like any other game company.

      People need to settle down.

      Nobody knows the real sales numbers outside of the publisher (Blizzard), people can only assume, predict and estimate. Unless you are going to go around to every video game store in the world and ask them for their purchasing data? (Which can also be protected by legal and privacy agreements between the company and the publisher).

      Articles with “numbers research” by “analysts” are usually fabricated for traffic and attention. What does traffic and attention bring them? Money from ad revenue and “status”. Websites that republish articles usually benefit from the same positives and negatives, including a bad mark against their reputation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brandon-Evans/1603660859 Brandon Evans

    I just know that a lot of servers are “Locked” in the after noon – thats above high and above full populations.  I’m the only person I know that plays wow that bought the box copy, my other 6 friends that play wow all got the digital download and I use steam for my other games.  Go into a Gamestop and see how large the PC game section is(Its one rack in most stores if not a half of a rack).  Most “gamers” buy digital down loads.  I got the box copy just to have a box for my set but  I got the digital delux download for my wife.  Anyway Sales for MoP for the frist day including pre-orders I would say around 3 to 4 million with the 700k box sales (if thats even right).  I would not be surprised if the number was closer to 7-8 million.  Someone needs to be fired over this one cause when Blizzard releases there earnings he will choke on that statment.  318 person survey and he down grades Blizzards stock.  Thats like taking a servey of Microsoft employees on what search engine they use and then saying more people are using Bing instead of Google and drop googles stock ratings.  Really????  

    • http://twitter.com/izumicookie Izumi

      I agree with this.

      My local store has one rack that usually has older pc games mixed with a few new releases. This is because stores cant compete with online PC game sales and pricing so they don’t bother getting large amounts of stock any more. This is thanks to online distribution, like Steam and the fact that most people buy what is more convenient for them at the time and usually cheaper. Buying the digital standard is usually cheaper then buying the boxed standard, $10 less, due to the whole disc/box/manual – no disc/box/manual thing.

    • Krzysztof Kotarba

      it’s wierd… Many ppl say there are huge que for servers. I think numbers will be big even if ppl just buy game to level up and leave, many do. 

  • https://sites.google.com/site/francoisschnell/ notfrancois

    Minus 20 309 likes on the official Warcraft Facebook page in the last 72 hours. My previous post wasn’t publish apparently (with link to hourly logging of MMOs Social Networks activity). In the same time span GW2 gained 2819 likes. 

  • http://twitter.com/ProTrolly ProTrolly

    I think guild wars 2 is doing more damage to wow than everyone is thinking. I for one did not buy mist of pandaria and im waiting till october 26th to i can unsub from wow. wow had has nothing real new in it than copying from other games now and i think the player base is getting bored with it.

  • Krzysztof Kotarba

    hard to believe that… they had 10 million players how is that possible they sell so low. People say they sit in 5k que for server. I wonder what numbers will come later. 
    Digital copy cost is in € for many ppl in europe this is expensive, you can buy cheaper than from blizz store.

  • http://www.facebook.com/krister.holmberg Krister Holmberg

    Cataclysm sold 3.3M in the first 24 hours so…

    But sure there are digital sales so perhaps it can reach half or a third of the sale catraclysm had. Still a lot of money.

    • Old Ben

      All values for “sold in the first 24 hours” include pre-orders. It’s effectively “sold during the two or three months for which it has been possible to order it”.

  • ceewolf

    It would be interesting to know how many people play WoW in the United States vs the rest of the world… I know new game releases happen on Tues. in the States, but in places like the UK new release retail copies of games don’t come out until Friday…So that means Day 1 sales of MOP would be happening at this very moment in other parts of the world..But I don’t know if Warcraft would be a special case scenario and it’s released at the same time world wide.

    • Alex Wallace

      MoP was world wide release even in china wether these figures are absolutely correct or not it does go to show that its not selling as well as the other expansions have sold…and i figure it sold over a million but i dont think it even hit the 3.3million that cata sold in physical copies alone…(thats adding digital + physical for mop together not meething the physical of cata alone) but thats my over under…

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Incorrect, Mist of Pandaria was approved for China, but was not released on the 25th. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1314061810 Froggy Ford

    Given how many people in my guild were on playing at midnight i don’t think many people bought retail lol. Let’s wait till we actually see real numbers before we turn the rumor mill…

  • http://www.facebook.com/fernando.domena Fernando Domena

    For a game that’s been around as long as WoW, 700,000 still pretty damn good, some other MMO’s don’t even sell that much.

  • Unknownman14

    Not surprised majority of the comments are a bunch of WoW haters.

    Negative news get people to read article since its the “cool thing” to hate MoP I am not surprised the writer put it such a title. I would not be surprised if most people didnt read that the digitals sales are not included (or like most haters ignore that fact completely).

    Also as Mike and Olivia stated on salesI dont think MoP is going to get that insane physical sales that Cata did because I did went to EB games at launch day and the physical copy are not sold out and there are towers of the expansion compared to GW2 which is still sold out.

  • Morturion

    Sad Panda :(

    • Jay

       A lot of those accounts can still farm gold without MOP :3

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nate-Glass/505341877 Nate Glass

          The main thing to consider (something being overlooked here) is the release date. In the past – Christmas time. MoP is much earlier. By Christmas time it is fully possible that these numbers are at least between 1M and 1.5M. Add the digital sales and it’s possibly over 2M. This is still not near Cata sales but enough to carry on. 

          Also I seriously doubt that the digital sales were what you would call “irrelevant” compared to physical sales. I would venture an estimate of at least a 2/1 ratio for Physical/Digital sales.

          I don’t play WoW these days so I’m not biased in any fashion, but it is simply too early to judge. Empires do rise and fall, but I don’t think this train has quite run out of steam yet.

         PS.  Love Olivia’s profile Pic. 

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    Discounting digital sales does seem very odd. On Tuesday, I noticed multiple digital deluxe achievements popping up in guild chat.   Also have several guidies log in on Tuesday, noticed Mist was live, log out, click the buy button and log back on.   We all then headed out the Jade Forest to kill the nasty Alliance.  

    • Old Ben

      > Discounting digital sales does seem very odd.

      No one is “discounting” them. Blizzard hasn’t released any numbers (unlike what they did for previous expansions).

  • http://twitter.com/JumpTheKraken Sean F

    Interesting article, in that fewer people are buying physical discs.  Of course, it makes it appear that MoP sales are down.  And then of course, Gamebreaker posts an otherwise accurately-titled news story, but ALSO makes it appear that MoP sale are down… until you read the article.  So, hey you got some hits, gamebreaker.  Nice job. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/Hard.Candy.Boy Leo Garcia

    sale or not pandas exp is the most ridiculous-retarded expansion ever made

    more pokemons and eaze modes plz

  • Kagitaar

    A link to this article would be nice, all I can find is people talking about the statements.

    Anyway, there are many factors to take into account here, the foremost being the obvious digital sales. Anecdotally, I’ve seen people on their mounts for weeks because they bought the digital CE. Something that I think is more telling, at my Gamestop they had the normal dozen CEs but only three normal boxes; that right there gives a pretty good indication that the hundred or so people my store had last few times have all quit, or that they just bought the digital. My money is on the digital.

    Second would be, where is the data located? Is this all US, is he looking at Europe? China is half the sub base, didn’t they just get it now?
    Third, the data he is getting. Is this just the Gamestops, Best Buys, and Wal-Marts? Is he getting any data from the smaller outlets?

    This guy is as bad as the Wall Street Journal ‘journalist’ who wrote up the Borderlands 2 article, didn’t even attempt to actually do his job.

    Edit: Is there any reason we don’t have mods deleting the childish ‘my game is better than yours’ comments?

  • Thomas Monahan

    I say lets give MoP 1 million digital and then add the 700,000 retail
    This only gives us 1.7 million for the first 24hrs. 
    now this Expansion could be a slow burn sine many players might be waiting for reviews or more footage on twitch to get a better feel before buying.
    Another issue might be the SUB fee.
    I’m not a WoW player but I believe Blizzard brings in so much money from their 9.1 million Subs that the WoW player deserves more content in small patches. Blizzard has the money to expand the team but it feels that the business suits might be affecting team and content delivery.
    With the age of GW2, PS2, and other pay to buy and no Sub MMOs that give players AAA game content, it makes it harder for players who are not die hards to justify the buy of an expansion and a Sub per month. I’m sure some WoW players are wondering if there will also be another large gap of time between the last content patch of MOP and the next expansion. I foresee players will player for 4-5 months but if Blizzard does keep content coming- we will see the Sub numbers go down. 
    Even if WoW Sub drop to 4 million or lower over the next 2 years….WoW will always be a good game and will take it’s place in the MMO history in the likes of Ultima, Everquest to name a few.  

  • Sharuko

    MoP probably sold 2.5 – 3 million within 24 hours.  With the Digital Deluxe version advertised for months that was probably the best selling edition.  It is cute to see Guildenberg fans attacking WoW after their game was proven to be a massive failure as predicted.

    GW2 will be a distant memory in a month.  It isn’t even on the Twitch front page now, and player activity has dropped 70% since its peak.  Yes all that within a month.  So yeah keep talking about GW2 in these WoW news articles, I salute you for going down with the ship.

    The massively hyped game didn’t even have SWTOR’s lasting power. I hate to say I told you so, but I did.

    • jugyfant

      lol this guy has the word probably mentioned twice regarding figures he has no idea about in as many sentences and then makes predictions regarding another issue entirely as if he had this article as point of proof.

      • Spammerbam

         He’s known for that months ago. No surprise.

    • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

      Still – WOW numbers do not come close to what GW2 got at launch on Xfire.  And GW2 got about 2 million copies in the first week.   There just isn’t the same interest with MOP as with former expansions.  I bought it and its ok.. but its nothing more than that.

      But BLizzard can just blame themselfs. A SUB based mmo should not be left dead for 8 months at the end of an expansion. And ppl can not trust BLizzad in changing this in the future. Hopefully games like GW2 and SWTOR ftp + RIFT can change this mentality from Blizzard.

    • Spammerbam

       Yeah, and where are these statistics from? I love how you’re known for providing misleading facts.

      “player activity has dropped 70% since its peak”

      ^ No shit. Like any other game.

      Wait… what ever happened to this one game called Tera? Anyone still plays it?

    • Spammerbam

      Mist of Pandaria came out and WoW is nowhere near the peak of GW2, with an average of 20k less users in comparison. Before this MoP expansion, the average peak was around 20k users, as similar to GW2.

      • Sharuko

        What a funny argument.  WoW grow for years.  Even for argument sake it dies tomorrow, it went on for almost 8 years.  When GW2 the promised one that everyone has been hyping for 5 years couldn’t even last one month.

        What happen to Mike O’Brien going for number 1?  It is just so funny to watch from the outside.

        • Spammerbam

          I never said WoW is going to die. I’m not really against WoW either, it’s a great game actually. Just trying to prove my point here.

          WoW is still going strong isn’t it? It should be up at the top on the MMO list and the most played. But if it isn’t… then what is?

          So, even for the argument sake it dies tomorrow:
          Sharuko: “It went on for almost 8 years.. GW2 couldn’t even last one month.”
          ^ Yeah okay, and then what? Now what are we going to do? This is going to lead to nothing and is pretty much a pointless argument.

          Now, I’m not gonna be here to say that GW2 is or should be #1; I don’t think many MMO veterans are use to GW2′s philosophy. While in contrast, you try everything in your power to prove that GW2 isn’t and it’s one of the worse.. for like what, half a year now? After failing to defend Tera, you’ve decided to hop to a better MMO — now defending WoW. YEAH OKAY, as if there’s not enough players playing WoW already.. trying to prove that WoW should be #1.

          Genius.

          Don’t you think it’s time to move on now, buddy?

    • Spammerbam

      Btw, here is the chart for Tera, peaking at a whopping 1.3k.
      Just thought you’d be interested.

      This chart just makes me want to cry.

      • Sharuko

        Tera doesn’t support XFire.

        • Spammerbam

           See how your argument by using Xfire is so flawed? Xfire isn’t everything.

    • Jay

      LOL Sharuko is back! And still hatin on GW2… I guess since Tera did so horrible, you decided to jump on the MOP wagon?

      If you can’t beat em, join em… Oh wait, then you’d be on GW2′s side. Nvm…

  • pc11

    hasnt it already been said that between the US and EU WOW has 2-2,5 million players the rest of the 9 million is in Asia. Where are the Asia sales numbers? If MOP sold 1.7 (retail + digital) out of 2,5 million in US+EU then it did really good at launch.

  • http://twitter.com/Deadalon Deadalon

    WOW is not reaching any of the former hights with MOP.  I doubt its this bad as the analyst claims.  But its defenetly alot lower than in Cata.  THere are few servers with Qs but most are instant log.  I had long ques in Cata – but get in right away now in MOP.   

    What stings me as a Vanilla player is that soo few old guard Vanilla players bothered with MOP. The main reason is probably how bad Vanilla players took to LFR system where every nub in the world could get in there instead at least working abit for it.  It takes alot away from the adventure of the game to see the entire raiding content been downgraded to so low standards.

    • Jay

       Haha was just having a conversation with some people on the night of MOP launch (I was playing GW2) about how many Vanilla players have moved on. Someone on vent even said Vanilla was the worst thing to happen to WOW, because it reminds people of how good the game used to be. Now it’s just super casual and built for the “right now” crowd.

      I won’t knock WOW, but it sure aint what it used to be…

  • http://twitter.com/JasoonMc Jason McIntyre

    Just based on my circle of friends, I’m not surprised that MoP isn’t doing that well.  My friends and I have bought every expansion up until now and not one of us is even remotely interested in playing this 8 year old game anymore. Honestly though, 700,000 (x2 for digital more or less.) isn’t really that bad considering the game is so old.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=562947866 Jessica Olsen Trevino

      I don’t really understand how the game being Old really plays into wether you want to play the game. Dungeons and Dragons is old, Monopoly is older, Poker is really old, yet people still play them all the time. (Poker has had a HUGE resurgence.) Now if you had said, “The game stopped offering my friends and I what we are looking for in a game and has not in a while.” That would be valid. The age of the game does not determine death or loss of players accurately. 
      And I can appreciate anecdotal evidence in a personal conversation but if I were to use anecdotal evidence, them MoP is doing wildly great. Both my parents, all of my guild and myself have or are going to purchase the game. Anecdotal evidence is skewed typically because the people that you surround yourself with, typically have the same feelings on similar subjects. I.E. WoW

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.f.trevino Michael F Treviño

      I don’t really understand how the game being Old really plays into wether you want to play the game. Dungeons and Dragons is old, Monopoly is older, Poker is really old, yet people still play them all the time. (Poker has had a HUGE resurgence.) Now if you had said, “The game stopped offering my friends and I what we are looking for in a game and has not in a while.” That would be valid. The age of the game does not determine death or loss of players accurately. 
      And I can appreciate anecdotal evidence in a personal conversation but if I were to use anecdotal evidence, them MoP is doing wildly great. Both my parents, all of my guild and myself have or are going to purchase the game. Anecdotal evidence is skewed typically because the people that you surround yourself with, typically have the same feelings on similar subjects. I.E. WoW. 
      Sorry for accidentally replying as my wife. LOL

      • Jant0n

        I agree to an extent, but graphics to play a role in it (at least for me). I did not stop playing WoW solely because of the graphics but it was a minor factor in my decision to leave. Then again the counter point to that is that the older graphics make it a lot more accessible in comparison to games with better graphis; so, who really knows which would cause a higher sub number. A point in your argument I find highly irrelevent is your comparison between video games and bord/card games. How would one make a card game or a board game have better graphics?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=562947866 Jessica Olsen Trevino

          Computer games, Pen and Paper RPGs, board games, poker do have relevance. They are games. Not only that, they are games that you play in groups, so there is a social aspect as well. They are a diversion and a time sink that vie for your attention. we all place a value on our time and if it is not worth your time, you won’t waste your time doing it.
          If you are leaving a game because the graphics are not at the level you like, that is valid. (I really don’t see why, but that is my opinion. ultimately, it’s about gameplay. Hell I still play my Atari 2600.) It’s graphics aren’t up to the level of some of the more current MMOs. However, saying the game is old is vague and does not get to the real reason a person has left a game for the previously stated reasons. (DnD, Monopoly and Poker)
          LOL damnit! My wife loged into FB while I wasn’t looking. Mike Trevino posted this.

          • Jant0n

            >”They are games. Not only that, they are games that you play in groups, so there is a social aspect as well.”
               This is all true, but they are not played through a technological medium. If a game’s graphics get dated it has a negative impact on the game itself, where as board game, card game, or pen&paper RPG don’t run into such issues. Part of what made me fall in love with WoW when I first started playing it was walking through Elwynn Forest for the first time or seeing Stormwind; while these still have a dramatic impact it is somewhat dulled when the graphics age (though, I must say that WoW’s have aged very well).

            >” we all place a value on our time and if it is not worth your time, you won’t waste your time doing it.”
                 Agreed.

            >”If you are leaving a game because the graphics are not at the level you like, that is valid. (I really don’t see why, but that is my opinion. ultimately, it’s about gameplay. Hell I still play my Atari 2600.) ”
                 My contention wasn’t that I left because of the graphics ( I still play my NES and N64; unless it starts to give me motion sickness), It was that it played a factor in my decision to leave. I agree that gameplay is definitely more important.

            >” It’s graphics aren’t up to the level of some of the more current MMOs. However, saying the game is old is vague and does not get to the real reason a person has left a game ”
                I wouldn’t say that the graphics are the major reasons some people are leaving, but they definitely contribute. In my personal experience it’s usually an accumulation of small issues that cause me to leave a game; I can’t speak for everyone, just my 2 cents. As to the issue of age, I believe it can contribute in a smaller way; sometimes people just want something new or believe they do. Seeing as WoW has managed to remain on top for so long though, I don’t think it’s age is a major issue.

          • http://www.facebook.com/michael.f.trevino Michael F Treviño

            LOL You’re not picking up what I’m putting down man. I agree with the reasons you stopped playing the game and say they are valid. What I’m saying is, just because a game is “OLD” is not a valid reason, because inside that reason, OLD, is the real reason. OLD is a vague. “The graphics are not as clean as I would like it,” is a more precise reason. “The questing system is dated,” is a more precise reason. “I left because the game is OLD,” does not really tell me why. (There are aspects of WoW that are not OLD so you cannot use the OLD reason as a blanket statement encompassing the whole game.) People stop playing something, anything, because of one or many specific reasons, though they may not consciously decide all of them. 

          • Jant0n

            I don’t know why you felt the need to caps lock “OLD” 6 times and put quotation marks around it when I never even said it in my post.

            >” I agree with the reasons you stopped playing the game and say they are valid”
               I never listed the reasons I left WoW. I was just noting that graphics can be a contributing factor to people leaving as well as the game age (as it means there are inevitably people who have been playing for a long time, since the game has been out for 8 years).

            >”What I’m saying is, just because a game is “OLD” is not a valid reason”
                It can be a valid reason; people can get burned out. I am speaking more of playing the same game, or even type of game, for so many years can be a contributing factor in people’s decision to leave. Even with new things added in it is a similar environment with a similar foundation.

            >”There are aspects of WoW that are not OLD so you cannot use the OLD reason as a blanket statement encompassing the whole game”

            You should’ve read my last sentence “Seeing as WoW has managed to remain on top for so long though, I don’t think it’s age is a major issue.”.

            >”People stop playing something, anything, because of one or many specific reasons, though they may not consciously decide all of them. ”
               I agree in fact I wrote ” In my personal experience it’s usually an accumulation of small issues that cause me to leave a game; I can’t speak for everyone, just my 2 cents. “

          • http://www.facebook.com/michael.f.trevino Michael F Treviño

            >”[Old] can be a valid reason; people can get burned out. I am speaking more of playing the same game, or even type of game, for so many years can be a contributing factor in people’s decision to leave. Even with new things added in it is a similar environment with a similar foundation.”

            But even there you say that Old is not the reason for someone leaving, the more specific reason is Burnout. Again, age of the game is not the real reason, Burnout is.

            People use OLD as a blanket reason, trying to cover all the aspects of the game they don’t like, but really it is more specific reasons; graphics, burnout, looting or xp system. 

            I apologize for the Caps OLD, I was trying to emphasize the word, but without italics it comes across as yelling. 

          • Jant0n

            I can see where you come from. I’m talking about the age being the causality of the specific reasons (age being the cause of outdated graphics, a person leaving being the effect). I agree it is the specific reasons that cause someone to leave, but that age causes those reasons; ie age caused the graphics to seem worse (in comparison with newer games) or age has caused the person to get burned out.

        • Jay

          You bring up a good point, comparing WOW to Monopoly is apples and oranges… I mean, sure, they’re both games/fruit. However, they’re 2 different forms of presentation. How many decade old video games remain at the top of charts…

          I’m with you on this, even though I know a lot of people are addicted to or deeply invested in WOW, it’s still an old game.

          Also, Monopoly and card games don’t come with a subscription fee. ;)

      • Deathstar2x

        Perhaps calling it old is meant to be an insult or just stating the facts (or even both). I think you’re reading too much into it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/michael.f.trevino Michael F Treviño

          Perhaps you are right. Though after reading it I really felt the urge to reply and correct what I feel is incorrect.

  • MiZTiiX

    this is stupid. How about they actually release numbers when they are able to get the digital numbers aswell. typical stupid websites trying to start drama

    • Jant0n

      >”typical stupid websites trying to start drama”
         GameBreaker is reporting on a major investments bank’s lead gaming research analyst’s opinion of the biggest MMO. Considering that I think it’s fairly warranted for a gaming news site to report on this. The big news here is that “Bagga doesn’t think that digital sales will make a sufficient impact to rectify the lower-than-average retail copies sold”, this is very big news as it comes from a very reputable source. Bagga stuck his name on this report and is risking his reputation, I doubt he would do so if he didn’t have some strong evidence to support his claim. Could he be wrong? Of course, but I wouldn’t want to bet on it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.beets.5 Michael Beets

    i think the sales definitely broke a million. someone’s facts somewhere are incorrect, but i guess we’ll have to wait for blizzard to release a statement just to be 100% sure, eh?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=77202596 Ryan Augustine

    I was trying to figure out if the MoP retail numbers were compared to the Cat retail number or if te Cat numbers were all sales (retail, digital, etc).  Does anyone know?

  • Theyrealone

    Waiting for the blizzard sales report.

  • Michael Kubath

    The sails numbers of 700k is not a big surprise to me, some people might feel burned by blizzard after how badly cata, and Diablo 3 turned out. In addition the people that picked up Guild Wars 2 might just decided to not go back to WoW after seeing how GW2 fixes pity much all the annoyances in WoW, i.e. tagging Mobs. ganking, large scale PVP (WvW), more engaging combat system in GW2, higher polygon count in GW2 graphics, and fighting for crafting node spawns.  The Dynamic events give that sense of a more alive community, and being part of some thing epic, which is what a large number of WoW players want in in WoW.  Another thing is that the “new content” is not really attractive to me since the only really new thing is the story, and i am not paying to playing WoW for it’s story.

    TL;DR is WoW is for the dedicated raider minority GW2 is more for the average MMO player or some one that likes old AV style PVP.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Josef-Buckley/1288342323 Josef Buckley

    This girl worked in finances, yet she can’t put 8/9ths into a percentage? Yikes, hopefully she wasn’t some sort of financial advisor. 

    • http://twitter.com/oliviadgrace Olivia Grace

       I had an accounts team… My role was strategic value-add asset management, so more technical and less mathsy!

      • jgelling

        Well clearly your role wasn’t in any kind of journalism, because you wrote this story as snarky, petulant and far from any kind of objectivity. I’m not saying you’re holding a candle for Blizz/Activision, but you shouldn’t be attacking an analyst while reporting the news unless you have a better source – and of course you don’t.

        • Anhan

          anybody that says digital sales are insignificant in a digital world is obviously outdated. Some times tech moves to fast for seniors or senior anyalsts.

          investigative journalism = not just buying the crap on some goofballs report

        • Nick Cattane

          How dare a journalist have an opinion.  We better inform FOX and NBC of this insantity!

          • http://twitter.com/firesiku Siku

             He’s kinda

  • jgelling

    Well, actually he is comparing apples to apples – retail sales to (estimated) retail sales.

    There will be more digital sales this time around – and the analyst has no data to estimate those figures.

    Since retail sales were much, much lower than Cata (based on his estimates), he’s guessing increased digital sales won’t make up the shortfall.

    It’s guesswork with early, incomplete information: but that’s what analysts do.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kissy-McWilly/100001367731460 Kissy McWilly

       He’s comparing day one sales of Mists of Pandaria physical copies to day one sales of Cataclysm both digital and physical.  So no, it isn’t apples to apples, it’s apples to apples and oranges. 

      In the end, I personally do not feel there are going to be nearly as many sales, total, this time around.  I think day one sales will barely scrape 2 million. 

      As tomorrow is the end of week one, there’s very little reason we haven’t seen the day one sales numbers, other than an extremely poor showing.  It will be an interesting to see how soon we see actual numbers released, or if we don’t see them, which is much more telling in my eyes.

      From previous examples, Cataclysm was released on Dec 7, 2010.  We knew on Dec 13, 2010 what those numbers were.  Judging by that, we should see those sales numbers today.

  • Erik Jonsson

    The reason I didn’t buy it immediately was that I wanted the box, aand I woke up and missed the last buss to get it as I stuck awake all launch night leveling pets x) First day figures is odd imo, there is just so many factors playing in, maybe people just wasn’t in a hurry, maybe people like me have to make a daily trip to get to the closest game store, etc.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JOQTEJ4DNN4Y7FNPN5I5I22WWE Jr.

    Don’t buy into the hype guys. Until the digital downloads are included, this story is nothing to go by. I bet, the combined retail and digital downloads sales, are going to be around 3.5 to 4 million in the first couple days.

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