I’m somewhat of an anomaly here at GAMEBREAKER because I’m the only person who doesn’t play MMOs. I’ve always been into story-driven, single player games. After watching some of my best friends play hundreds of hours of other MMOs, I had come to the conclusion long ago that MMOs  are just not my thing. However, the more that I see and hear about Guild Wars 2 makes me think that ArenaNet might be able to persuade non-MMOers like myself.

To explain just why that is, here is my countdown of my top five reasons why GW2 is making me a convert:

1.) I Don’t Play Fetch

From what I’ve seen, most MMOs seem to rely heavily on level-grinding before you can actually do something fun. The idea that I will have to do hours and hours of fetch questing before finally doing something exciting is a major turnoff for me. Fetch quests aren’t fun or exciting. I don’t want to hunt 10 deer, I want to do something important, damn it.

The fact that Guild Wars 2 has exciting early-game events already puts it a step up on most of its competition. I want to see “boss fight” style events, and I don’t want to put hundreds of hours of work in before I see them.

2.) The Game World Is Engaging

On a similar note, the antiquated MMO structure of talking to quest-givers who respond only with large amounts of written text is so stale at this point. It seems that ArenaNet has put forth a ton of effort to make sure that the game world is actually exciting. Not having traditional quests given to you in blocks of boring text is a huge step towards making MMOs appealing to non-MMOers.

In order to be memorable, all RPGs, especially MMOs, rely on player immersion into the game world. Immersion typically requires interactivity with one’s surroundings. Clicking on a dude who gives you an inane mission is hardly interactive. I want to see things happening around me. I want a reason to quest.

Guild Wars 2’s dynamic events will create your want to help the world around you, especially considering the lasting effects that quest successes and failures will impart on the game world.

Guild Wars 2 Tequatl

3.) This Time, It’s Personal

Sometimes when gaming I like to become a hermit. Playing games becomes a stress-relieving experience, where I don’t have any responsibilities or time crunches. One thing that always turned me off about MMOs before is the need to get into a guild in order to be successful. The idea of having in-game friends is certainly nice, but with my schizophrenic schedule, I’m not a reliable guild-mate. I can’t guarantee I’ll be able to play at any given time.

This is where Guild Wars 2’s personal story intrigues me. In the instance that I want to play alone, or none of my friends are on, I can still log on and have a meaningful Guild Wars experience by myself.

As someone who plays quite a few single player RPGs on my consoles, I also really like the idea of your character “being somebody” in the story world. I feel that in a lot of previous MMOs, your character is just a face in a crowd; it never feels like you’ve made much of an impact. By including more in-depth character stories, you can be a badass.

You can make a difference.

4.) It Doesn’t Encourage Douchebags

Another thing that has turned me away from getting into the MMO scene is the amount of jerks that you can meet online. Sure, this can be said for any online community, MMO or otherwise, but the thought of putting in time and effort to complete a group quest just to have some idiot take everything and run is maddening.

I really like that Guild Wars 2 has done away with kill stealing and quest camping. Everybody gets credit for helping. The wealth spreads to all involved, the way that it should be.

5.) The Price Is Right

Speaking of wealth, not a whole lot of people have exorbitant amounts of extra income these days. To begin playing most MMOs, one has to think of not only the initial price, but also the monthly subscription fee.

For someone who isn’t completely convinced that they have what it takes to be a dedicated MMO gamer, the prospect of having to pay a monthly fee is a bit overwhelming.

I’ve always considered it a vicious circle: you have to spend a lot of time playing the game because you’ve paid for the monthly service, and you can’t stop paying for the service in subsequent months due to all of the time you’ve invested.

Asking upwards of $180 a year in monthly fees seems a tad unreasonable for my particular gaming habits. I like to play different styles of games (shooters, sports, action-adventure, etc.), and those MMO fee costs could go to either three new retail games or a whole year of Gamefly.

The Guild Wars 2 pricing structure suits MMO-curious gamers much better. Pay the game’s initial price. You don’t need to buy anything else if you don’t want to. It’s a concept that console gamers are already comfortable with.

Guild Wars 2 seems to fix, or at least circumvent, many of the issues I had with MMOs. This game might just have wait it takes to convert me into something I’d never thought I’d be: an MMO gamer.

For all your Guild Wars 2 news and views, be sure to check our dedicated page and our weekly show GuildCast, live each Tuesday at 6 PM PDT.

  • http://twitter.com/majoryutz jay wax

    Short of item 5. Everything you noted can be found in SWTOR too. I suggest you try one of their free weekend offers and compare. The story for each class is very engaging. And right from the start.

    • falknerblitz

       Sorry, I didn’t find number 1 and 4 in SWTOR

      • Damir Miric

        Tbh I didnt find 1 2 4 and 5 in SWTOR leveled 2 chars. And after you get to lvl 30 with your first character game becomes SUPER grindy. I guess 1 4 and 5 are obivious. You could say you have interaction in swtor but is it really a step in to a right direction. Voice over quest givers become boring so quickly. When in then end you can predict that guy talking big stuff and all that is going to send you on the other side of the map to kill 10 mobs and get him some nononsence. And every quest in swtor i like that.

        I leveled my first char in pve and by the time I got to level 50 I was so bored with leveling that I thought I would never level another char. Reason I got 2 lvl 50s is that other character I leveled trough PvP. Only quests I did was personal story and even that got tedious very quickly just because you had to walk around so much it was sickening.

      • Zach Long

         Most people don’t know when they are playing fetch >.<

        • http://www.facebook.com/fragosodr David Romera Fragoso

          Some would argue that GW2 systems are just very well masked kill 10 rats. I say if you don’t know you are playing fetch, they did a good job. If for you that happen in GW2 or SWTOR is a matter of personal taste probably.

          • Old Ben

            Next, some people might say the images on your screen are just very well-masked sequences of 24-bit numbers.

            And, er… yes, they are. So what? As long as they look pretty, isn’t that the point?

            And most game’s objectives boil down to tracking some numbers (score, time left, etc.). So what? What matters is how enjoyable the gameplay itself is. If the rats hide or fight back, if you can kill them in different ways, if interesting stuff happens around you while you’re chasing them, then “kill 10 rats” can be a lot of fun.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_R35J5EUERGS3E6JRIQMBCDTRRY Nathan I

      I didn’t find no 2 in SWTOR either. Spending 2 minutes talking to some guy about his life story that ends in “go kill 10 endlessly respawning sepaRATists” or “bomb 4 things that will not even show any kind of damage” is the very definition of an inane mission.

    • dawolv

       So? SWTOR dropped it’s Sub Fee?

  • MMO_Doubter

    You can PLAY it without any extra expense beyond the box. As for ENJOYING it without spending money in the cash shop –  well, cash shop games don’t work that way.

    There is nothing new to bringing in non-MMO players. That was a big part of WoW’s success. SWTOR sold 2 million boxes mostly on the IP and their brand.

    The shared xp doesn’t encourage kill-stealing (which isn’t a factor in any MMO with a proper tagging mechanic), but it DOES encourage leeching.

    At GBTV, money talks.


    • QSatu

       I played a lot of f2p games and I never payed for anything. I can’t say I didn’t enjoy them. It’s all in your head. Not all games make you suffer if you won’t use cash shop. Besides you can always spend 15$ a month in cash shop if it bothers you that much.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PG4DRLIEDYPSF3YKJW6ZW7UVYM aj


      Some peepos are out of their minds. MMO Doubter seems to be one of them. Talking out they ass.

    • ScottHawkes

      “At GBTV money talks”
      I see you peddle this on a regular occasion and it always makes me chuckle/scratch my head.
      Do you think ArenaNet is bribing us in some way to give positive reviews to Guild Wars 2? Afraid not. In fact if you were behind the scenes here, you’d know how laughable that is.
      Do you think we are covering Guild Wars 2 to get traffic? Well, you got us. We cover games that we are interested in and that the public is interested in. This generates traffic. You’ll notice we also cover The Elder Scrolls, WoW, SWTOR etc. as people are interested in them.
      GW2 is one of the biggest releases of this year. There’s absolutely no question of that, most of us think it is a very strong game. Hence our coverage.
      That’s it, as highly interesting as a conspiracy theory might be, I’m afraid to disappoint you in saying we think a popular game is a good one.

      • MMO_Doubter

        I have heard it before. Pretty much verbatim from Jon’s emphatic denials on MMORPG.

        If you were being paid off by ANet, you wouldn’t be admitting it.

        No objection to a lot of coverage of GW2. As you said, it is a major release. However, your coverage has been extremely biased in favour, and your article titles have been no different from ad copy.

        You yourself stated a while back that you were trying to allay fears about the cash shop. Well, sir, unless you are working for ANet, that is not your job. Whom do you serve? Not the players.

        When and if you start showing some objectivity WRT GW2, then GBTV will start moving away from being the laughing stock you now are.

        Regardless of WHY you are doing it, your coverage is still basically a fanboy wankfest.


        • http://twitter.com/mmofringe MMOFringe

          Doubter, why are you signing your comments as MMOFringe? As the admin of the Fringe and a fan of GW2 (as well as a member of the staff for a major GW2 fansite) – I am pretty sure that your views don’t exactly reflect everyone’s on the site. GBtv is covering GW2 because it is news and draws traffic because many people enjoy hearing about it. No one can be critical of things not yet officially published as final.  

          • MMO_Doubter

             I am posting as “MMO_Doubter”

            The tag at the end is to show my support of the site.

          • JJGlyph

            You’re still around here shi**ing on these threads? My god man, get a life.

        • http://twitter.com/Grulnork Grulnork

          Indirectly you are right. Because it’s popular it generates more views and that generates more money from ads.

          But I also have to add that MMO players are incredibly releaved to finally get a game like GW2. And if you played one of the beta’s you should know that GW2 does so much things different and that they stay true to there no grind philosophy.
          I find it very hard to not sound a fanboy myself when I talk with my friends about GW2 and they know me as a very critical person if it comes to new MMO’s.

      • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

        When elder scrolls annouched there fight mechanis, this site is saying “OMG ITS A GW2 CLONE WOW THATS BORING”. Dont even bother to say this site is not favouring GW2. It’s so stupid to say. This site laugh at any other mmo out there(epecially TERA since Gary dont like it) but for some reason GW2 is free. gary dont like the game = Lets not talk about it.

        This sites news is run by what game Gary likes and maybe some other people in the crew. I bet some people are forced to test GW2 just to keep the work of being a writer for this site.

        it’s just stupid. Tera is a good MMO, but because GARY dont like it, the whole site wont care about it.

        I have followed this site for a long time, but I can no clearly see that gamebreaker is just about what game is not “right now”. When MoP is getting out, this site will be flooded with news about it and a fake gary telling he is excited. Same will be for every  mmo coming out.

        Cant take this site to serious, this site is mostly fun. There is to much bad work done between all workers here, except a few.

        • http://www.facebook.com/fragosodr David Romera Fragoso

          Yes they did, but that initial elder scrolls reaction across several sites, so much that the devs made an interview trying to turn the tide of bad press. Can you blame GBTV for reporting the same thing kotaku was?

          But yeah their opinions run the site, and I though they were very open about it. I liked TERA, they didn’t. Its a shame that there won’t be much coverage of it, but you are right, its a few people posting videos on the internet and not CNN.

          • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

            It’s not what they dont like, its what gary dont like. Games he hate wont get decent coverage. When they do, they are often just laughed about.

    • http://www.facebook.com/fragosodr David Romera Fragoso

      Valid concern. Still, I had fun in GW2 beta without buying anything from cash shop, even though we had currency to try it out. Maybe folks at GBTV had too and that’s why they are excited about it? Its a shame that they don’t have someone playing TERA to give constant updates on it too, but I see them at least trying to whatever news they can without playing.

      Very true, its not new. We all had to be brought into it by some MMO in the past to be an MMO player right? Still its good to see it happening again, MMO market grow its always better than fighting for larger slices of the same pie.

      Yup you can follow someone around and attack everything they are attacking, get xp and loot for that too. But since content scale with number of participating players, you find yourself dodging and actually doing something to survive too. Plus if your participation is sub-par, you get a bronze reward. Leeching is possible in a sense, but there’s seems to be just as much effort for potentially less rewards, so I think it will be discouraged as content gets harder.

      Wouldn’t be the lack of money at GBTV the issue? I mean they currently don’t have someone playing TERA and covering it because the people that they have aren’t into it, if they had more money they could pay someone to do that.

      • MMO_Doubter

        They should have gamers writing about their games, rather than writers paid to play particular games.

        • http://www.facebook.com/fragosodr David Romera Fragoso

           Are you volunteering? If someone wants to work for free writing articles and making videos for them I don’t think they would refuse.

          • MMO_Doubter

             Work for free? They are not working for free. Why would I volunteer for an ad-based site.

          • dawolv

             Well done. You jsut contradicted yourself…

            and there is something new: No Sub-Fee.
            My No. 1 reason why I didn’t play any other MMO for longer than a trial period.
            After a while the content and combat get …meh and I’m not paying for that.

            Even if GW2, god forbid, turns out to be incredibly boring and dull after Level 40, I only paid 50€ and (as I know from Beta) the first 40 Levels are really fun to play. I’ve spent 50€ on less content before, so I see no reasons to be upset

        • bombazine_doll

          But you clearly have no idea how to be objective, and you’re sorely lacking in the literary department. Sure you could write about games, but there’s no guarantee that what you write would be worth reading, that’s why writers write reviews.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chaz.rpg Chaz Davis

    Item 5 is more important than the rest put together, a triple A mmo (well, I hope its turns out to be triple A) without a subscription sounds very interesting and it gives GW2 an edge over other games. The rest is kind of opinion based. A the class story? sounds very familiar.

    • dawolv

       For that to make sense, define Tripple A!
      “AAA” is just a slab-on marketing expression.
      If it means production value and backing then GW2 definately is AAA.

      On the other hand, BF3 is a AAA Shooter…
      What about TF2?
      What about Tribes: Ascend?
      I never heard people talk about them and using  that phrase, but what is the defining difference?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ronny-Sunrock/100002737688676 Ronny Sunrock

    I have played allot of different MMORPGs and WoW is almost the only game where you have to get to max level before the game starts to be fun. 

    Quest camping and ninja looting have not been seen in theampark games sens EQ back in 1999.

    • StigtriX

      AION would like to have a word ;)

    • Odeezee

      Quest Camping: WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW

      Ninja Looting: WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR

  • falknerblitz

     Other cash shop games don’t work that way – GW2 does.

  • MMO_Doubter

    Wake up, ‘Noobie’.

    Not EVERYONE is singing GW2’s glory. Not the people who LIKE the trinity. Not the people who hate cash shops. Not the people who like having exotic animals to ride.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_R35J5EUERGS3E6JRIQMBCDTRRY Nathan I

      and those people are free to stay away

      • Kicknpups

        Agree Nathan..Nothing I enjoy more then the Haters of new great games. Hating on a new game without trying it.Is just as bad as disliking someone because the color of there skin..Maybe get to know something before speaking of it. Typical Ignorance of the MMO world….

      • Deathstar2x


        As somebody who sank a huge amount of time on Guild Wars 1, I really don’t understand the hate.

        Guild Wars 2 isn’t for me, do you see me hating on it?

    • http://www.facebook.com/fragosodr David Romera Fragoso

      Isn’t that what TERA is for? I got from amazon discount and is a very good traditional MMO on its systems, except combat which is very different(and good!). 2012 is a great year for MMOs, if you like the genre there’s TERA, if you don’t like or your are burned out a bit, GW2 might grab you. Or play both since GW2 don’t have a sub.

      I think the point they are making here is that even though no game is for everyone, GW2 might grab some people that aren’t MMO players. My sister that didn’t like RO, WoW and Aion pre-purchased GW2 after playing my account for a few hours last beta test. This article should make you happy if you are into traditional MMOs, show that GW2 is going after new blood insted of your TERA/TSW subs.

      • zilvis78

         noon PST on June 8th 2012, all the way through Sunday the 10th next BWE….js:P

      • MMO_Doubter

         Tera has its own flaws.

  • Brosaxon

     I feel it’s important to step back and see things from a different perspective, after all not every gamer likes MMOs.

    I found it very interesting to see GW2 from the point of view of a non-MMO player and I’d love to hear Austin’s thoughts on other MMOs like SWTOR (as suggested by jay wax), WoW, TSW or even TERA.

    • MMO_Doubter

       “after all not every gamer likes MMOs.”

      Yeah – so play something else.

      Where is the MMO for chess lovers?

      Where is the bingo players’ MMO?

    • wazzaoo

      i can tell you that tera sucks

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=769425006 Tom Combs

    I hear it cures cancer too.

    • Brosaxon

       And it will get you laid too!  ;)

      • Sathure

         And prevents world hunger.

  • http://twitter.com/Critzkreig Cody Moody

    Another GW2 worship article?

    • MMO_Doubter

       Yep. I wonder what teat they will latch onto after it releases.

      • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

        This site is a GW2 fanboy orgams that is going to last for a very long time. Just as with SWTOR, they are going to praise GW2 to death until release. Once the game is out, they will bash the game more and more

        • Kicknpups

          Kinda curious what you trolls come here looking for? I have followed GBTV for years and they primary report on WoW and any new MMO coming out. Hating on G2 is the cool thing to do atm. 

          Crusader I wish I had your crystal ball of how G2 is going to burn like SWOTR…Have you played G2? I have and SWOTR and I enjoyed SWOTR till I hate rank 70 with two char and they destroyed the PvP system. 

          G2 is nothing like swotr one bit or WoW or LOL Tera..That is what will make it a great game.Instead of being a typical MMO doubter try it and see if it’s your cake if not move on because no one will care or miss you.

          • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

            It’s how this site present things. TWIMMO, republic, legendary and the other shows are great. What I find wierd is the need for this site to hate certain mmos, make fun of certain mmos and praise other mmos to the heavens and beyond. This is a site about mmo games, so whether or not gary likes the game or not should not be something to care about.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

           Shouldn’t you be playing Tera right now?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

       Better than that God forsaken Tera mess.

    • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON Samir

      Aaah Sharuko 2.0 
      i almost gave up on my daily “Sharuko” fix of GW2 hate.
      Thx for taking up his job…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

    wonder what % of GW2 haters will actually commit suicide in the future. 

  • http://twitter.com/ookamiwing Phillip Rushing

    MMOs scare Austin. It is okay Austin MMOA (MMO Anonymous)  is there for you. 

  • ChristopherRuscoe

    and Item 4 means you need to play more MMO’s and dont go any
    were near the forums as the  Douchebageness is not as bad as the QQing
    will make it out to be


  • xdsr

    Its me or host looks like a jedi in a robe?

  • http://twitter.com/majoryutz jay wax

    Having played Wow for over 5yrs, I have no interest in another fantasy setting. The next games im looking forward too are in the MMO realm. Mechwarrior and Planetside 2. Both are F2P games. They may have broader appeal for gamers like the OP. If Planetside 2 is anything like the original, its all about world PVP and carnage. Leveling was done through combat, not questing. And it was a persistent world. That type of game may do more to attract the non mmo gamer then GW2.

  • Sklys

    I see no one has said it, so I will “welcome Austin” to mmos/rpg play.  You do not have to play
    GW2 all the time. You can leave it and come back to it. You can play by your self but can join
    in boss fights (big or small) with others and not be yell at for not doing the most or the best. Most
     important it is all free (after box cost), oh yes you can use the cash shop. But it is not pay to
    win just some fun stuff (exp. dye etc)
     Oh before all you folks start to yell at me for this comment. I liked GW1 and look forward to
    GW2  for these reasons. :)

  • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

    So.. you cant play games at “normal times” therefore gw2 wins… I find that rather odd. You say you play “alot of games of 60 dollars value, cause its your thing”. Well to bad for gw2 players if most players are like you, cause you will drop the game after 1-2 months and never get back. I guess arenaNet is happy as hell, since you wasted 60 dollars on the game.

    You guys says that the gw2 model is the way to go, even though wow got 10+ million players worldwide. You keep going on this gw2 fanboy nerdgasm for some stupid reason.

    I still struggle to find out why you guys are having such a hard time of keep a distance between true RPG games(like skyrim) and MMOs in general. it’s like you are trying to force these mmos onto people who dont really give a damn about mmos at all.

    You need to accept that there is a difference in the gaming community. Not all want to see a damn MMO game. It’s just this site thinking MMOS is everything and nothing else matter

    • http://www.facebook.com/fragosodr David Romera Fragoso

       I think they do. Its just that they happen to like this game a lot. If you like it too, great. If not I don’t really see the forcing part. Plus, do you play a Fable game for 2 months? As far as single player gamers are concerned, if they enjoy this for 1-2 months are you are predicting its a worth purchase. Yes you can play skyrim forever, especially with mods. And if that’s what you wanna do go for it. If not, than they are giving some info of another game that they like and other people might too. What do you think they should do differently?

      • dawolv

         I think you have to view everything together:
        If you don’t play MMO’s because you don’t wnt to spent a sub-fee, while not having enough time to get your money’s worth and you hate the questing – that’s ok.

        If you like Solo-RPG’s which you pay 60 bucks for than that also ok.

        But GW2 has multiple Storylines (granted, maybe not as “long” in terms of content as, lets say Skyrim, but it has more individual ones) with addition of the persistent world and persisten PvP and Arena PvP…

        So when you’re used to pay 60 bucks for a Single Player RPG a PvP Game (Shooter, Moba) , you will get at least double the value in content with GW2, and you don’t have to worry about keeping the cash flowing.

        In that way, I feel the phrase “wasted 60 bucks” is really dumb. I can’t speak for everyone , but I’m sure I’ve bought games for the same price point that offered a lot less content!

    • Kicknpups

      First and foremost I love your first comment of speculation and fallacies and no direction of what your speaking of.

      As far as GW2 model. It’s a new one and can already tell you haven’t tried it.WoW hitting 10mill was after WOTLK after years of launch. I’m not a fan of G1 but it burnt WoW in  launch from 2mill to 6mill+ counting.

      On your third comment I don’t think you grasped what this whole video/article was about. It isn’t about the separation fo MMO or RPG it’s about how G2 is bringing that RPG feeling back to the “MMORPG”I’m going to stereotype here and say you have only played WoW or WoW was your first “real” MMO. Just an FYI WoW Was far from the first. Far from the first who “Did it right” There have been many who broke 1mill EQ/EQ2 DAOC etc. What’s sad is people like yourself prob aren’t aware that they are still up and running strong and have some of the most respectable fan base in the MMO world.

      Your fourth comment I will agree with you on how many don’t care for MMO’s yet this is  a MMO heavy website there primary shows are WoW/G2/SWOTR/LOL/ST2..All community based. Not all MMO’s but a majority so if you have a problem with them move on and find somewhere else to get your non MMO fix.

      • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

        oh wow was not the first mmo ever made? Oh I did not know that, shocking news. Im 13 and what is a mmo?

        Seriously, no need for your stereotype. I have played my fair share of mmos. I played the hell out of DAOC. I dont need some random dude to tell me that I never have.

        Im trying to say that this site is “LOL WOW” when it got 10mill+ subs and at same time is “GW2 BEST GAME EVER LETS NOT EVER TALK ABOUT OTHER MMOS IN A GOOD WAY OVER TIME”.

        Sure, this site talks about mmos in general. Most is just random news lasting for a few mins like this video, never really long ones. When it is GW2, its nerdgasm all over here. Tera? Nah, gary dont like it.

    • Paul D

      You are allowed your opinions, with that being said…

      Not all want to see a damn MMO game. ” -Making games, if its an mmo or not is a business. They have a new product they are working on and they want people to play it, they want to introduce their product to as many new people as possible. Its true mmo’s are not for everone, but isn’t it nice when someone can say “wow I normally dont like X, but this X is great!” and that’s how arena net increases its client base.  “You guys says that the gw2 model is the way to go, even though wow got 10+ million players worldwide. “-Times have changed , when WoW was released it didn’t have alot of competition, and was a fantastic game. Have you noticed that since WoW was released blizzard has not made another Warcraft Rts, where the series got its lore/start. No. Alot of those playes that loved the Warcraft Rts series gave WoW a shot though and increased blizzards player base, and since the landscape of the market has changed blizzard has made a version of WoW that’s F2P.

      “I still struggle to find out why you guys are having such a hard time of keep a distance between true RPG games(like skyrim) and MMOs in general.”- Bethesda is making a Elder Scrolls MMO, because that’s likely a direction the genre is headed like it or not. Point is moot.

      Lastly if you don’t like the coverage here, offer some constructive advice and move on to another site/blog/podcast that shares similar views closer to those of your own. You always have a choice, If you don’t enjoy the articles on GBTV don’t watch GBTV. To each their own.

      (sorry for the text wall)

  • http://www.facebook.com/richard.peppers Richard Peppers

    The F2P market has become an anathema to the mmo world. Most people think that the moment an mmorpg becomes f2p it’s basically dead. How is it that a game like GW2 can avoid the stigma associated with f2p games? I see a future where all mmos are f2p and fueled by micro transactions. I think this is just the marketing structure that just makes sense for this day and age.  Yet I don’t think it’s fair that all these great games that are currently subscription based would lose the bulk of their player base if they decided to go f2p and gw2 gets praised for it. With aion going f2p I truly think all mmos should follow suit without fan boys calling them all failures. Just my 2¢.

    • dawolv

       it’s not F2P, it’s B2P
      LoL is F2P, TF2 is F2P (now)
      it’s a huge difference!

  • MMO_Doubter

    My criticisms of GBTV are my own, and not endorsed by or representative of any other people or web sites.

    • http://www.facebook.com/fragosodr David Romera Fragoso

      And I like most of your criticism _Doubter. I think discuss mechanics and point out potential flaws and problems is the right approach.

      But sometimes I don’t see what you would like them to do differently. If your point is that they review too positively GW2, than is your criticism of the media in general? Their hype is just as big as massively, kotaku, mmorpg, ten ton hammer, etc. Maybe anet is paying them all? Maybe. Every COD makes such a fuss and receive way better scores than I think it deserves, but I guess there are a lot of people out there who like and are excited about it(or the company just buys out everyone. What to do?)

      Or is you criticism about coverage? I can agree and add weight if that’s the case. Witcher 2 is an amazing game acclaimed by everybody and they got a massive enhanced edition which was a free DLC of +6h for anyone that already had the game. No coverage. Saints Row III gets porn actress DLC for $3. Deserves a video, not only an article.

      But they are not that many people so I think they wright about what they play, and just leave stuff out if they don’t know about it. Its no secret that Gary isn’t playing TERA, do I as a TERA player really want him making TERA news? Should they hire someone else with different tastes to get more coverage? I hope so. If that’s what you are saying I can get behind that. Let’s hope someone is paying them for that to happen :D

  • Noxdus

    I’m surprised they put this up before the BWE announcement for the 8th. You are being slow today gamebreaker :P

    • Kicknpups

      I’m guessing since there West Coast and the announcement came midnight there time they prob were all sound asleep.It hit FB before it Anet Website.

      • ScottHawkes

         Kick speaks the sense.

  • Kicknpups

    Great article as I read many of the post below and replied most of the “typical;” MMO world are unaware what you were trying to stat in your talk. As someone who enjoys the RPG side of MMO… I have to say G2 brings it to the table. I enjoy almost all games and atm G2 is number one on my list for can’t wait to play. 

    I say keep the naysayers and haters coming and watch em burn in a pit in front of Cyrodil.BTW BWE 8-10 this month hope to see some GBTV folks out there

  • pandora005

    Wow … two dudes thinly veiling an ad as information. Dont think of everyone as stupid and even if you (probably) didnt get paid it is a poor episode of “gosh, we have to turn out our regular GW2 content, so what do we do?” stuff.

    The one thing which they FORGOT TO MENTION is that GW2 REQUIRES personal playing SKILL and that this is kinda bad for a super-casual player. I played during the beta weekend and a little bit during the stress test … boy had I unlearned everything I learned about my class and the general skills required to do stuff on my own (which was one of the big hyped points here). Thus it is much harder to play GW2 than WoW, because FIRST you have to think about your build for the character … and many things dont really work. Spending time thinking about the game while not playing doesnt really sound like something this “non-MMO-player” wouldnt do. SECOND you have to know how to use your skills and in which order … and most importantly you need to remember where that dodge button is and what these red circles mean. THIRD you need to pick the right gear with the right stats or life in the MMO will become hard for you. In WoW you get (well until now) lots of talent points and once you choose a path its not too difficult to figure out something that works well. Cookie cutter builds are also easy to find for WoW, but GW2 doesnt have that due to the “equal value” of the traits and the non-level-bound way to pick them.

    A very important part of an MMO is the social aspect and that is really where GW2 shines but which these two totally neglect to mention. Its awesome and better than WoW because there is no raid and thus no one will be forced to be online every friday at 8pm for the weekly 6 hour raiding session. You can log on or off as you well please and still have guildmates to talk to … if any are online.

    So sadly this episode gets a thumbs down from me …

    • Tom Hayward

       Yes, because all people who don’t play or like MMOs are super-casual players. *rolls eyes*

      • dawolv

         and being super casual is also equivalent to being an idiot and not knowing anything about gaming (except farmville).

      • pandora005

        All I am saying is that GW2 requires you to “make an effort” and thus ISNT a game for casual gamers like the dude in the video at the top of this page.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1673041169 Pip Thecurlyhaireddude Turner

      you’re complaining about having to think about playing a game?! one of the whole main points of rpgs is that you can plan what type of weapons and armour and things youre going to get and aim for them
      and seriously?! know how to use your skills and in what order?! i thought that was just a given tactic in every game..
      and THEN you go onto picking the right gear with the right stats?! DUDE. thats the whole point of rpg’s, if you dont have the right gear against a good enemy, you will die.

      go back to angry birds dude

      • pandora005

        Dude … I was NOT complaining about the game requiring you to think – which you didnt. I was complaining about these two dudes posting a video with bad reasoning. You might want to go back to preschool and learn to read and think properly …

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1673041169 Pip Thecurlyhaireddude Turner

           ”because FIRST you have to think about your build for the character ”

    • MMO_Doubter

       I disagree that not having raid content is MORE social. Society is about getting along with people. The larger the groups, the more social.

      The problem with raiding to a schedule is the lockouts that raiding games use to slow progression. If the raids were designed to be played for FUN – rather than a gear grind – there would not need to be any lockouts. People could run raids when ever enough players came online.

      MMO content should be designed to be GROUP-FRIENDLY, and frankly, it isn’t. By group – I mean 2 players and up. There should be content for small groups, and content for large groups.

      Speaking only for myself.

      • XMP_Data_Guru

        Only 10% of the player base end game raid.  Arenanet has figured out that they can ignore the 10% even thou that 10% are the loudest no life players I have ever seen.

        If you want no life end game raiding.. go play WOW or Rift.. they want you bad and will listen to you 10% like you accually matter.

        Was wondering when a good game company would figure out that ignoring that 10% would make them the biggest MMO out there.  You can make challenging 5 man instances and world events.  GW2 does that.  And WvWvW is the same way.

        Ohh and the who pay 2 win.  LOL man you must be one of those who spend to much time living in virtual worlds to actually make a real living in the real one.  I am success in real life and if I want to trade some of that money for in game items well cool.  Not like a no lifer who lives in game cant do the same.   

        • MMO_Doubter

           If you spend real money on in-game virtual items, you’re not a success in real life.

          • XMP_Data_Guru

            spoken like a true person who is envious of people who have worked hard for money and dont mind spending it on stuff they enjoy.

            So every person who either goes to a movie theater or rents a movie.. heck pays to watch television are not a success in real life?

            Because they are all virtual items.. unless you buy a copy of every move and television show you watch then your insulting yourself as well.

            Wow battle of whits with a guy with none just isnt fair…

        • pandora005

          The point is that you dont HAVE TO do these raids in any MMO unless you want to grow your epeen to be the biggest on the server. Thus you might as well have raid content in the game or not. Sadly Arenanet has chosen to “kill the holy trinity” and this has basically killed the need for grouping as well. So in effect its antisocial in that aspect in that it doesnt force you to “play with the other kids on the playground”. Too many young kids are playing computer games these days and the problem is that the “true losers” [those without decent real life social skills] arent forced to find friends in this game as much as in other games.

          The GW2 world events are NOT challenging, because they cant be as dangerous as they could be … due to the lack of healers in the game. A huge dragon SHOULD deal about 80% of an armored characters hit points in damage each time, but it cant do that because the player couldnt recover after one hit to take the next. It should be pretty easy for “the barnyard door to hit you” though and thus a HUGE DRAGON should have area attacks which cant always be dodged out of. Add all of this together and you either need to dumb down the event OR you need TRUE HEALERs. If something is less dangerous than it could be it becomes less exciting to beat it. The greater the risk the greater the reward.

          • XMP_Data_Guru

            LOL things change and evolve over time.  You 10% need to get used to it.  And with no trinity it means every player needs to know what is going on.  IF you dont like the new changes dont play the game.   Ohh wait you can see it will be the top or next to it in less then a year.  People will love the no raiding in large groups to get the best end game gear.  People will love the RvR 3 way wars just like DAOC.  And with no trinity they dont have to try to balance hybrids with true trinity classes which never works.  Its either play a trinity class or be a weak class.

            MMO will have to evolve to survive.  I just think the raiders are scared sick that GW2 will show there day is over as it should be since they are a small % of all the MMO player base.

            If raiding is so important a new MMO will come out for you.  Game population is moving to a non raiding end game.  After GW2 comes out no new raiding MMO will ever do better then GW2.  I dont care they can have all the raiding games they want.  Just leave the non raiding end game alone since that is what the DEVS want.  Dont scream for a change in a game so you get what you want when they have a total different idea for there game.

      • pandora005

        Just being together in the same room and hitting the same mob ISNT being social. Talking to others is and raids require a certain amount of SILENCE. A raid is simply a choreographed fight with lots of people and this is something which GW2 doesnt have. I think it is a bad thing, BUT that wasnt the question here! I was critiquing the obvious flaws in the views of the “non-MMO-player” in the video.

        I do love raiding and I think they are great because they offer a non-trivial challenge. Sadly GW2 doesnt even encourage grouping [there are no effects which work on groupmembers only and I dont think there are many effects which require you to target a friendly player] and this is one of the biggest flaws of the game. There is “group content” in the game (veteran mobs), BUT you arent required to group and that is bad.

    • Colin Fabre

      I think that the points you mentioned are the things Arenanet were aiming for. An MMO where you couldnt just pick up any class and do the same things everyone else does with no difficulty whatsoever, this game makes people think more about what theyre doing, and how theyre playing the game, it’s not just a mindless walk through the game. At least not at first, but unlike other MMOs, the limits on the number of available skills means that GW2’s difference in this sense will last longer than in other MMOs, and will also make any in game achievements, especially PvP-based ones more rewarding, as any victories will be due to the person and how they play personally, so there’s more merit in it.
      However i feel that the result of this for many players (myself included) will result in more time spent in and around the game, which taking into account the fact that im about to go to university, isnt exactly a very good thing haha

    • falknerblitz

       I don’t understand if you’re saying something positive or negative about the game. All those things sounds good to me and is part of Anet’s design philosophy… O.o

      • pandora005

        I am not primarily saying things about the game … just this video. These guys are supposed to be journalists and they FORGET TO MENTION pretty important things. This shows that they dont do proper research or preparation for in their job.

        The game is good but it has its weaknesses.

        • Odeezee

          to be honest these guys are not journalists, they are just gamers who happen to also write and vlog about games. people do not come to GBTV for facts, they come for opinions and impressions.

    • abujafer

      Those are the exact things that turned me off about WoW. Talent trees take all the skill out of the game, and a certain “build” is going to be the best way to use each class (depending on whether or not you’re doing PvP or PvE). I didn’t find it fun at all; Guild Wars, however, reminded me of a card game; you set up your “deck” of skills, and you use them in a certain order to get the best effect. You can still use each one separately, but the real skill comes in using them together to really hit home (and/or get a high DPS).

  • mcsumo

    I don’t understand all the hate. These guys are gamers first of all, who produce fun, flavour and opinion pieces related to PC game news (mostly MMOs).

    This is not a news article. This is Austin’s personal opinion on why he may be drawn into a MMO for the first time, which logically would suggest that others may feel the same way.

    GW2 won’t be for everybody, there are plenty of other games out there for those who don’t like it, but even if you buy the game and only play for a few months before moving onto other things, you will have got your moneys worth if you are honest about it.

    In the end hating on GBTV for covering a game which they are personally excited about and which produces high levels of traffic for them is ridiculous and stupid. By coming here to rant pointlessly, you are encouraging them to post more.

    So please keep it up!! I love me some GW2 news! :D

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

      it’s just going to be real funny when WoW and GW2 are the only ships afloat this christmas. TERA is getting quitting topics already, swtor is done for, TSW is stillborn, capernicus is dead and buried, TES:O is hated(but could actually be good), WoD is like in development hell every other month….

      Planetside 2 will be great, but of little interest to the mmoRPG crowd in general. oh, and ArcheAge looks really good. a solid, high quality sanbox game where you play as a character and not a ship will be interesting.

      • mcsumo

         I agree with much of what you say. I am looking forward to trying all of these games out and playing the ones I can afford in time and money. If I don’t like 1 or 2 of them, well hey they weren’t for me. But I won’t spread hate on them or the people who do enjoy them, it just doesn’t make sense.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

          no one spreads more hate than SWTOR and TERA fans, although Tera fans aren’t as bad. just the few who stick out.

  • http://www.facebook.com/LostLunE James Hernandez

    thats definitely a… umm… interesting shirt garry lol

  • http://twitter.com/morebetaweekend Tulio Bola

    “history driven experiences, a cinematic type game… …the shorter condensed 8-12 hour blablabla”

    Congratulations, asshole, you’re the cancer killing the gaming industry. You’re a CoD kid.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/2VTTEG7QDX7GHF75RYYKLHK42A Vivianne D

       Oh look – a douchebag! Proving the article author right.

    • Andres Blanco

      if anyone sound like a CoD kid here, thats you lol. Nothing wrong with history driven, cinematic type games, 8-12 hours… you ever played portal? 

      I really don’t like C.o.D at all, but it is haters like you the cancer killing the industry…

  • Time_warp

    I like GW2’s approach at questing, but there are still fetch quests in the game. You may not have to walk up to an npc that tells you to kill/collect x, y, or z, but you will still be doing those types of tasks. The only difference is you can choose how much (or little) you want to contribute. I do agree that it is cool you are able to participate in mini-boss fights relatively quickly.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

    MMO of the Year right here!

  • Dustin Duda

     Anet strikes again! “If you hate MMO’s you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

    • MMO_Doubter

       Yup. People who HATE MMOS. People who LOVE MMOS. People who have no fingers. Blind people. People without computers…

      • QSatu

         Wow.. that’s impressive.

      • http://twitter.com/MightySneaker Mike

        4 of those have actually been worked through already, now we just need to find someone without a pc that likes gw2. :D

  • Old Ben

    Regarding 3: You don’t need to be in a guild. In fact, if you want to be incognito and play alone, you’ll probably want to have a couple of characters that _aren’t_ in a guild. There’s plenty of single-player content in all MMORPGs out there. 

    And I suspect you’ll be disappointed by GW2’s personal stories. You start at the top and are treated like a hero without having done anything to deserve it. You have very little influence over how the story unfolds and there’s no sense of achievement. At best, you fell like you’re watching someone else’s story. At worst, it makes you feel like a fraud (and makes you think all the NPCs around you must be really gullible). There are stories with more depth and plot consistence in books for 6 year olds.

    The real strengths of GW2 will be the open world gameplay and the dynamic event system, assuming they manage to get those properly balanced for groups of different sizes.

    • mcsumo

      I see you constantly repeating this rubbish about the GW2 story. My charr guardian from iron legion (i think :S) was certainly not treated like a hero, in fact they were trying to make me the scapegoat for everything that had gone wrong.

      At least the story changes based on the choices I make at character creation and also decisions further down the line. Unlike SWTOR where nobody cared who I killed, or swindled, I faced the exact same story steps as every other trooper, or consular, but I had cutscenes where I had to make CHOICES!!! …..which actually made no real difference. Huh well the 4 stories I played through were certainly nothing special.

      • Old Ben

        Did you actually read the story? You start out (at level 1) as the guy who saved his squad and fought alongside Rytlock. Makes you wonder why Rytlock was fighting level 1 enemies, or how you were able to survive and be of any help, since you can’t even use your weapon properly yet. Making players “special” before they’ve actually done anything spoils any sense of achievement. 

        By all means give players a taste of some epic events right at the start, but don’t patronize them by treating them like the most important person in the world, when they _know_ they didn’t really have any influence on those early events.

        The only significant choices you make are before you even start playing (your friend, your legion, your father). The choices you make during the actual story are basically just two ways of achieving the same thing (ex., “do you want to build a super-weapon or do you want to ask the spirits to help you?” – then you go through 2 or 3 steps related to that choice, and after the last step you’re at the same place regardless of which path you picked).

        Not only is the story weak in itself, but it also clashes with the way NPCs _outside_ the personal story treat you. In other words, it’s as if you’re playing two completely different characters (one in the personal story and one in the rest of the game). Or maybe (as someone suggested) the personal story is just what your character dreams about.

        Maybe the story gets better in later levels (the beta was limited to level 20), but my hopes aren’t too high. 

        I don’t play multi-player games for the single-player experience, anyway, so I don’t really care; I’ll simply skip the personal story and go explore the world. The main function of the story seems to be as a bit of hand-holding for people used to more linear games, who feel lost when given too much freedom.

        If you want an RPG where your personal story feels rewarding and meshes with the game world, you’re better off playing something like Ultima or The Elder Scrolls. When you have thousands of players in the same world, they can’t all be “the chosen one” (and that’s assuming they _want_ to be “the chosen one”, which isn’t necessarily what everyone wants from an RPG).

  • totaltitan

    Still wanting for something for people that LOVE MMOs – like organized large scale group PvE content, importance of grouping, etc.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

      Wow. it’s stil gonna be good and relevant as long as EA, Funcom and a bunch of copycats/incompetents are making MMO’s.

    • MMO_Doubter

       The devs and game sites have forgotten what the “MM” stands for.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y6ZETQHL4E45EAW6BZCTOJB7PU Jordan H

         So playing in a world with hundreds or thousands of other players next to you, not wishing they were somewhere else so they don’t ruin your experience, isn’t massively multiplayer enough for you? I enjoy raiding, but don’t require it for the game to be fun.

        • MMO_Doubter

           If they are not interacting with each other, they might as well be AI-driven NPCs.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Baesel/11612845 Jason Baesel

        I have to admit you have a talent for negativity. Comes with the name I suppose.

        • MMO_Doubter

           I didn’t start playing MMOs with this name. It came after years of experience.

    • http://twitter.com/Unlycaon Greg

      I love MMO’s and I’m satisfied with the idea that “Raiding” isn’t the only type of endgame an MMO needs.  I’m still waiting to see how epic the world boss fights and end game DE’s are before I make my final verdict but hey, I’m sure I’ll get my $60 worth before I’m done playing.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Baesel/11612845 Jason Baesel

       They have mentioned giant scale dynamic events requiring coordination between different areas, for instance one town needs to be defended by a team while another attacks an area, another destroys a bridge. All have to succeed…to succeed. And sure
      no 24 man raids, but I’m very happy with 5 man raids.

      Also I do not
      think grouping is necessarily important in open world, communication is
      yes, but not grouping. I do feel they need to work on the chat system to help encourage communication with players in events, and it is my understanding they are adding chat channels and revamping that system to help. And on the grouping level, plenty of having to group for the instances and explorable mode dungeons.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chaOtikcrOw Luc Larabie

    So fuck diablo 3. i have this game and i always have something that make the game can’t be played. Now it have a update for the auction house and it takes too long!! i’m tired of that seriously… Blizzard have changed, its not like it was before. They release a freaking game not finished! Guild Wars 2 nothing can beat it!

  • http://twitter.com/ogvidius Jonathan Ogden

    Great write up. This is pretty much my story too. Although I have tried many MMO games, including the first Guild Wars and always got bored after less than a month. I stuck with Guild Wars for a long time because the story was good and it was fun, but it still didn’t feel like everything I thought MMOs were going to be. Guild Wars 2 is the closest thing to what I always thought MMO games would be like, from what I’ve played so far! Love what ArenaNet are doing with this game and I’m hoping to spend quite some time playing it when it’s released. Seems the perfect balance between the good things about MMOs and a good story, fun gameplay etc. Plus all the things you mention above.

  • http://www.thejerseywife.com Jersey Wife

    I seriously take offense at the idea that casuals are in affect “noobs”. Seriously, the very idea that this game is super easy and made for the derp squad immediately turns me off. There are enough MMOs out there that have dumbed down their content to appease the masses. I’m an MMO gamer. I like challenges. I want to raid but I’m not “hard-core” because I have a life outside of the game. 

    GW2 has some great points but hyping it as the MMO for noobs just left a sour taste in my mouth.

    • Pirhana7

      Not sure why you think the game is super easy….  Ive played every mmo and playing in the GW2 weekend beta it was actually the hardest and most challenging imo.  You have to learn to dodge in combat or youa re going to die, even wh you come back to a low level area, your level is dropped and its easy to get swarmed and die

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Huh, GW2 is not hard. Dodge is not hard. Sidekicking back to a lower level zone is not hard, while you have lower stats, you will have a ton of extra abilities.

        With that said, I like the GW2 professions and combat system, it’s fun to play. But hard is not a word I would use to describe GW2.

        • http://twitter.com/Milennin The Milennin

           It’s not hard, but it’s certainly more demanding than your average (read: every other) MMO out there at the moment.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Baesel/11612845 Jason Baesel

          I’m pretty sure that it is too early to make the claim that the game is easy, I mean at MAX you go to level 30 in the beta, maybe tried ascalon catacombs but I doubt it as I have not heard anyone state that the instance is easy. No one in the beta (I think) has gotten to try Explorable mode which is supposed to be very difficult. I will agree it is easy to start playing the game, and only as a select set of classes, several of them have very steep learning curves.

          The leveling experience is not hard at the moment, and if you want to take the easy, boring, route to level just grinding the same zone, you can. But then why are you playing? The PVE in GW2 is about exploring, finding new areas or things to do in all of the zones. It is about the instances and explorable mode dungeons, which I believe are going to be quite difficult. It is your choice to go the ‘easy route’.

          I have to mention that having a ‘ton of extra abilities’ does not
          really mean much. I mean my level….14? 15? had all but two of his
          slots with relatively good abilities. No one ability is going to make
          you OP. Its knowing how to use them properly and be good at setting up
          your deck of abilities is what will matter. But going to the mists and
          suddenly having every ability unlocked, does not make you good, or make
          things automatically easy.

           Which might I add to Jersey wife, that if you want to raid but do not usually have the time, this might be for you. My understanding is explorable mode dungeons are extremely hard (much like high end raiding, if your players don’t know what they are doing or how to work together you are probably going to get stomped). But instead of herding cats and getting a huge raid setup, or being part of a solely raid guild, you need….5 people. Not necessarily easier. But easier to coordinate for sure.

          But if you want to go an easy route in PVE, not achieve much, but just get high enough so you can drop into WvWvW there is that too.

          tl;dr The game is what you make of it, if you want challenge in your PVE there is plenty of that. Certainly plenty of challenge in pvp as well. We also have seen the first 30 levels maybe. The first 10-15 being in essence tutorial levels. Remarkably fun tutorial levels for the most part too.

        • http://www.facebook.com/BrianOrr.Author Brian Orr

          Wait till you get to the lvl 30 dungeons and do the explorer mode versions of them. Those are extremely hard and challenging from all reports coming from those who have experienced them.

          The first 20 levels or so are more or less the tutorial zone type content, even the dynamic events get more complex from then on. It is pretty early yet to judge how hard or easy the game is yet.

        • Old Ben

          > But hard is not a word I would use to describe GW2.

          Being “hard” or “easy” is obviously relative. Compare levels 1-15 in GW2 to levels 1-15 in WoW, for example, and count how often you die or are forced to retreat.

          Even without any heirlooms, you can easily level from 1 to 20 in a single day without dying a single time in WoW. Compared to that (which is still the biggest MMORPG out there, in terms of player base), do you have any doubt that GW2 is “harder” ?

        • Pirhana7

          Just curious what level you got to?  while lvl 1-15 was easy to me i found that after 20 some common mobs could kill you with 2 power attacks if you did not time dodge.  yes dodging is easy but dodging ever single attack is not. also if you do not pay attention you will get attacked from behind by other mobs o a train will just come out of no where.  now if you think GW2 is easy then fine but then everyother mmo must be super easy to you. For me compared to other MMos…..DAOC,Warhammer, Aion ect….GW2 basic combat of every day mobs were alot more challenging than the ther games

      • mcsumo

        I think this is a misunderstanding, which stems from their use of the term ‘noob’.
        Many take this as meaning somebody who is clueless or bad at games. Others think it means somebody who deliberately makes an online game experience less fun for other players.

        In this case I think they are just having a bit of fun, and playing with the meaning of ‘newbie’, ‘fresh meat’ etc etc (which often leads to problems, sense of humour is definitely not universal :) )

    • http://www.kaiketsu.enjin.com/ Corey Jenkins

       GW2 is easy enough to get into yes, but its definitely hard to master. For some people who are used to playing more action oriented games such as devil may cry or ninja gaiden, they probably dont have as much of an issue with the combat as someone who has only played WoW.Coming from Beta though I can say the game is definitely not easy by any means however, especially once you get to the dungeons and some of the more difficult events. I think what they mean by “its easy for new players” is that it has a lot of familiar aspects from other MMO’s and games in general which makes it recognizable and easy to understand, as far as the overall gameplay, but the level of complexity only goes up from there. People who love that customization and detail to mechanics and challenging fights will not be disappointed. At the end of the day though people can argue weather or not its too easy or too hard FOR THEM, but ultimately in order to figure out if its good for you, you should just go in and try it, with no sub its just like buying mass effect or diablo. You can play it as much as you want or as little as you want.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Not sure about hard to master.  Fun yes, hard to master, guess I’ll have to see.

        Guess I need to see if the Dungeon are really that hard, or if you need a couple of experienced players to guide you through the dungeons. Looking forward to them. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/7MPGC5FCQJZGFKICKCMALR3AYY Eric

      GW2 isn’t derp squad material, they’re not talking about the ‘bad at games in general and maybe life too’ noob, they’re talking about the ‘hasn’t played mmo’s before but this one looks kinda promising’ newb. Theres more than one way to use the word,

    • Old Ben

      Combat is GW2 is harder than in any other major MMORPG out there. In fact, I’d say it’s probably _too_ hard at low levels, and might put off less experienced players, though that might just be because some events weren’t scaling properly.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Old Ben, guess I don’t see where combat in GW2 is hard. Enjoyable, but not hard. I do agree, some of the larger scale Dynamic Events need tuning, not sure how GW2 can fix zerging of large scale events.  

        • Old Ben

          I’m not sure what you mean by “fix”. You mean make them impossible to complete if you die (and force players to restart the whole event chain)? What would that achieve?

          If an event takes place in a persistent and easily accessible part of the world, then any player arriving half way through should be able to participate, no? Running back from a spawn point is part of those events’ design.

          There are other events taking place inside dungeons (both instanced and non-instanced), where you need to fight your way past multiple obstacles (that reset / respawn after a while), and single players won’t be able to run back. Search YouTube for Flame Temple Tombs or Barradin’s Vaults, for example.

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            There is a difference between combat and content.

            GW2 combat is fun, easy to pickup. Just learn to dodge.

            The content is what the developer designs. it’s easy to level in WoW, because the content is designed that way, not because the combat is OP.

            Everything else you list was content, content, content.  

            There is a diffence between combat systems and MMO content.

            Please list something in the GW2 combat system that is hard? 


          • Old Ben

            You might as well say that “combat” doesn’t really exist, there’s just a mouse and a keyboard, and as long as you can use a mouse and a keyboard, you can play anything that uses a mouse and a keyboard. 

            Remove all the content and “combat” becomes meaningless. 

            Combat isn’t just the list of moves you can perform, unless you think fighting a target dummy (or pressing them in a completely empty area) is the same as fighting all the different creatures you’ll encounter in GW2. Combat is the full experience of fighting actual enemies (both humans and AI-controlled) in the actual game. 

            I find boxing really easy as long as there’s no “content” (i.e., no opponent punching my head). But if I had to fight an enemy that could kill me with a single punch, and who I couldn’t even see properly due to all the spell effects around me, I’d probably find that combat pretty hard, even though my own ability to move and throw punches was unchanged. Is that so difficult to understand?

        • pandora005

          Combat in GW2 is HARD simply because DYING is part of the GW2 concept and they dont make fights easy in low levels like in other MMOs.

          Combat in GW2 is HARD simply because it works with meaningful COOLDOWNS to the skills and you have to get a “rhythm” for using them at the right time.

          Combat in GW2 is HARD simply because you dont have a simple talent tree as most other MMOs where you can spend lots of points to get new stuff, but rather have a simplistic but brilliant trait system which gives you A LOT of choice. Picking the right traits is harder than picking the right talents in WoW, simply because there are many many more playstyles for each class compared to other MMOs. In WoW a fire mage is a fire mage, but in GW2 you can have a “fire mage” with a staff or dagger/dagger weapons … which has a huge impact on the traits you want to have. Thus it requires MUCH MORE thought and training behind the pure gameplay.

  • Deffizzle

    No offense but if your over 16 an cant afford 15$a month for a game, your seriously a fakin loser ,being drawn to a game cuz of no monthly fees is sad

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

       Keep forking up that 15 bucks a month there Chief, you are the one that’s really being duped.

      • MMO_Doubter

         And what about the folks paying more than $15 per month in the store? What are they?

        • http://twitter.com/EdwardvanRaak Edward van Raak

          What about those people that pay 300$ for a mount + 180$ per year on subs + 30$ on pets? What are they?

          • MMO_Doubter

            Suckers. Idiots. Cheats. Like anyone else who pays for RMTs.

          • dawolv

             Exactly – But these idiots fund the company “for you”. So if you don’t like paying for stuff, here you don’t have to. And you also don’t have to pay a sub because there are always enough “suckers” and “idiots” about that’ll throw their cash at arenanet…


          • MMO_Doubter

            Not for me, because I don’t do business with companies whose goal it is to scam their customers – even if I am not one pf those suckers.

            Not for me, because I want a level playing field in a multiplayer game, not bought advantages.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

             You obviously have no clue as to what this game actually provides which pretty much says that anything you have to say is null and void.

            This game is not about pay to win, its not an Eastern MMO grind fest. They do have a cash shop but its for cosmetic items only. And if you wanted to buy these items you can trade gems in game with actual in game gold and not actual cold hard cash.

            Get your facts straight before you start swinging..otherwise you are liable to beat your own face in.

          • MMO_Doubter

            “They do have a cash shop but its for cosmetic items only.”

            You are wrong. Even the other fanboys here will tell you that.

            Just shut up.

          • dawolv

             What’s not cosmetic is convenience, and convenience is not something required.

            You can sit at home in a leather crafted armchair or you sit on a empty bucket… One is more convenient, but you can play just as freely as on a bucket…

            If you have an item from the Shop that you feel is P2W, tell me, and I’m sure I can tell you why it isn’t!

          • MMO_Doubter

             Define “P2W”, and I will.

          • http://twitter.com/MightySneaker Mike

            P2W is paying for something that noone else in the game can get without forking out a real money payment.That is P2W , but if you can get the same items in the game with a little effort, it’s technically not. And that’s how GW2 does it. You can always get the items ingame, without paying a dime.

          • MMO_Doubter

            Then we are using very different definitions of P2W.

            P2W is getting an advantage (of any kind) for spending more money in the game than the next guy.

            BTW, that ‘pay with your time’ argument isn’t realistic. I doubt you will be able to buy everything useful even if you play 24/7.

            Not to mention that ANet gets paid for everything in that gem shop, whether it is you paying or someone else.

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            Going to see how quickly I can make a Golem in WvW.  If I can spend gems on Golem parts, well that the definition of P2W. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y6ZETQHL4E45EAW6BZCTOJB7PU Jordan H

            Cosmetic items (dyes, outfits, etc), short-term, mostly useless buffs (good if you have more money than time to play, but hardly an advantage); keys that unlock boxes that give you…oh wait, the same items you can buy directly from the gem shop.

            There is no in-game advantage you get unless you have a surplus of time AND money, in which case, enjoy it, since the game’s not a competition, and where it is competitive, the gem shop doesn’t help you.

          • MMO_Doubter

             Unless you think all that stuff counts as cosmetic, I don’t know what your point is.

          • dawolv

             Here’s your definition: Pay 2 Win is when a player with more disposable income can acquire a clear statistical advantage through real money in a competitive envireonment that players without said disposable income cannot.
            I.e: Plain Stat increase, on a character or statistically better gear (as in numbers are higher)

            Ingame items:
            Staff +100 Int., Damage 12-13k
            Staff 2 +50 Int, Damage 16-17k
            [let’s assume it’s balanced]
            Cash Shop Staff: +100 Int, 16-17k Damage

          • MMO_Doubter

             Yours, perhaps. Not mine.

          • dawolv

            This is getting to cramped

          • dawolv

            So let me get it straight:
            You rather pay 15 bucks a month than play for free after the initial purchase, just so noone can level faster than you and get more gold?

            Because if you do, than stay away from GW2, because you seem to think of PvE as a competitive environment.
            Which it isn’t.

            I don’t feel forced to buy gems to speed up my leveling.. everything in the game is designed for it not to be important.  If YOU feel forced to buy anything that’s your problem!

          • MMO_Doubter

             I would willingly pay $15 a month for a level playing field. I did for six years in WoW, and I quit when they started selling in-game stuff for extra cash).

            You think ANet would put useless items in the cash shop? Does that make ANY sense to you?

            I think you have very little knowledge of how cash shops work.

          • dawolv

            I can still quit the game if they ever do sell p2w items.

            For now they don’t.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Baesel/11612845 Jason Baesel

           See though that is not something they have to do to play the game.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        - Trying a MMO for free (most MMOs), is NOT being duped.
        – Paying full price for a MMO without a release date, so you can play in the beta, thats a little of being DUPED. Looking forward to the next GW2 BWE.
        – Playing a free to play MMO with a cash shop, only duped if it’s P2W. 
        – Paying $60 for a console/PC game, you enjoy and play for hours, sounds like fun.
        – Paying $60 for a console/PC game, you hate after 10 mins, DUPED.
        – Paying $60 for a console/PC game and hate the ending, hmmm.
        – Paying $15 per month for a MMO you are not playing or enjoying, thats being duped or a form of addiction. 
        – Paying $15 per month for a MMO you enjoy playing, sounds a lot cheaper that what Austin is doing.
        – Paying for Indy games, God bless you, I salute you.

      • Sharuko

        I bought the Digital Deluxe edition of GW2 for $80 dollar because I fell for the hype.  I played it and hated it and probably won’t play for more than 10 hours at launch.  I got duped without a monthly fee.

        • dawolv

           What didn’t you like about it? And how is that different for falling for a sub-based hyped game?
          Any purchase that you don’t like in the end stings, but the sub fee doesn’t go into it…

          • Sharuko

            The biggest flaws for me where the combat and the lack of seamless world.  I have dozens of other flaws especially lack of end game content but those are the main ones.

            It wouldn’t have been different if it was subscription based.  Most people know they don’t like a game within the first month.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Baesel/11612845 Jason Baesel

             I don’t know why i’m bothering to reply to you. But ‘lack of endgame content’ coming from a guy who played at most to level 30.

          • dawolv

             Endgame? They haven’t even shown the endgame in the beta yet.. also they tried to make it abundandly clear that the idea behind endgame (having a completely different game which requires a different skill set) is what they wanted to get rid off.

            I don’t care if people have criticism, but stick to critisize what was already shown.

            If, however, by endgame you mean “raids”, then it’s really your own fault for buying it, since they announced like 1 1/2 years ago that there won’t be raids, only 5-man dungeon crawls.

            I for one don’t care about raids…
            I rather have a 5 man group with solid tactics than a co-dependent button cycling.

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            Haven’t we already seen the end game for GW2?
            I found the sPVP and WvW to be really fun.

            Looking forward to the Dungeons, but can’t image them being long term content. Once you figure out the puzzles or someone carries you through the puzzles, I figure they will be good for a couple of runs.

            Figure after a few months, getting anyone to finish higher level world content will very difficult.  

          • Old Ben

            > Looking forward to the Dungeons,
            > but can’t image them being long
            > term content. Once you figure out
            > the puzzles or someone carries
            > you through the puzzles, I figure
            > they will be good for a couple of runs.

            Yeah, because it’s not like people ever repeat the same dungeon 10, 30 or 100 times in other MMOs out there, eh…?

          • MMO_Doubter

             People run those for the gear. I thought GW2 wasn’t about the gear.

          • Spammerbam

             The gears earned in Dungeons all have different elite looks, but no better stats.
            I thought you played GW1.

          • Old Ben

            No, people run those (assuming you mean in WoW) because there’s nothing else to do. What else are they going to do? If you’re at max level and in full raid gear, there is nothing challenging to do in the game world, so you’re basically left with running the same 2 or 3 heroics over and over and over again (maybe “competing” against your own party to see who does more damage). The alternative is to not play the game, but since you paid the subscription, you feel pressured to “get your money’s worth”.

            And GW2 can be about the gear, same as any other game where your character can wear different clothes. It’s not an ilevel race, it’s not about armor statistics, but different armor sets look different, and getting all the pieces you want for a certain character can require a lot of dungeon runs.

            But in GW2, at maximum level, all dungeons (and areas) remain challenging, so you’re not stuck with doing the same 2 or 3 instances over and over again. Leveling up in GW2 makes your world bigger, not smaller. 

            Instead of adding useless clones of Pokémon and Farmville to WoW, Blizzard could hang on to a lot more players simply by having max-level versions of _all_ instances. The lack of quality of Dragon Soul would be irrelevant if people had access to level-85 versions of Karazhan, Ulduar and Black Temple, for example (not to mention the dozens of level 15-84 5-man instances that become obsolete at 85).

          • Sklys

            Question, you say you paid $80 for the game, why not $60 ? If you watched the videos that GB/others put out
            you would have known this and that there is no endgame.
            You say you will play 10 hours and then quit. Why play at
            all ? If there are flaws in the game, there is a thing called,
            oh what was that now ?   Ah yes  beta that was it.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

          That’s a most convenient answer there Sharuko, but if you wanted to actually give Anet some constructive criticism that’s one thing what you are doing here is attempting to instill some sort of panic/fear with no real infallible proof that this game is terrible. Completely biased and really quite frankly sad on your part. Cause honestly it would be one thing if many others voiced the same concern here but no one else is so I ask again..what is the real problem here?

          • Sharuko

            I already have written up a big post and will post it on the GW2 forums this coming BWE.

        • http://twitter.com/MightySneaker Mike

          The thing here is, you paid for it, and you will be able to come back to it at ANY time if you feel like it. not saying you will, but you will always be welcomed back into the game. On the other hand, monthly sub games lock you out after that paid month.

    • http://twitter.com/MightySneaker Mike

      Some people maybe spend the 15$ somewhere else, and like games that don’t need you to be tied to it for the month. I don’t like spending 15$ a month on a game that I only play for maybe 10-20 days in a month, at most for like 3-4 hours a day, I don’t get my moneys worth in a month.

      • MMO_Doubter

         Interesting math.

        You don’t think 30 hours per month is worth $15?

        • Chris Morgan

          Some people, myself included, feel like when we pay for a subscription it’s not worth the money spent when we don’t play a decent amount each day. Again, some people have better things to do with their life then play video games all day so when we don’t get a chance to play a few days out of the week it’s not worth it. Moreover, when I’m paying a subscription I feel like I’m obligated to play that game over any other game I own so I get my money’s worth. You know, because I work my ass off to get my money. (PS: I don’t mean to sound like a dick if that’s how I come off. At the very least not to you, just some of the other kids in these forums who don’t seem to understand the value of money or the fact that not everyone holds the same values or standards as them)

        • http://twitter.com/MightySneaker Mike

          Quite frankly, No I do not. I like to get the most for my money, and playing a game just because I have to since I’d paid for it is not getting my moneys worth. It would be different if I had for instance paid 15$ and gotten 30 full days of gametime to spend whenever I wanted. but a lot of bought but then wasted time is not worth it’s 15$ (since you have to sleep, eat, … you waste possibly 714 hours of paid game time in a month, and only get in 30 hours. that is not good value for money, don’t even get me started on those 4 hour long single player games for 60 dollars or more. With GW2 you pay 60$ and get as much time as you want into it, it could be over 5000 hours or it could be 5. whatever satisfies you, for me I’d probably go for alot more than 30 hours per month for 14.99$, over the next 5 years. Without any additional payments. But I wander … 

          • MMO_Doubter

            I hope it works out for you. I don’t see it happening, and I am curious why you would not just choose a F2P MMO.

             Every MMO with a cash shop has ‘encouraged’ people to spend money in it. GW2 has character slots and inventory slots for sale.

    • http://twitter.com/EdwardvanRaak Edward van Raak

      You know what’s really sad? Your spelling and logic.

      Also, you might want to see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c

    • mcsumo

      What a wonderfully narrow minded view. As a single parent I have to make decisions about where my money is best spent. £100 of sub fee could be better spent on a game that my son and I can play together, something nice for his birthday and a new pair of school shoes. Many others will have much bigger issues to consider.

      There are a marvellous variety of different people, from different social and economic backgrounds who enjoy gaming. Many have unique problems that they have to deal with. But you come along with your vast life experience and dismiss everyone without your privileged lifestyle ‘a loser’.

      Quite frankly this makes you the loser and also quite disgusting.

      • MMO_Doubter

         Stay away from the cash shop.

        • http://twitter.com/Krewechops Krewe Chops

          Pretty easy considering nothing there is required to enjoy the game.

          • dawolv

             Don’t bother, we’ve been up that route before and he’s just not seeing it. I for one don’t care anymore. If he’s convinced that the cash shop will be evil and p2w, even if all the evidence released thus ar indicates otherwise, I don’t know what anyone could say to him anymore…

      • Deffizzle

        Lol,im talking about single adults(NO KIDS) qqing about 15$.  An no i was raised w/ no privlidge i came from ahard working family where you worked your ass off .  When it snowed when i was a kid, you shoveled sidewalks or cut grass for $$$, recycle cans whatever. How hard is 15$$

        • http://twitter.com/grizzlyGummy Glajummy

          It’s about more than affordability. I cancelled my SWTOR sub months ago, but there have been times where I get that urge to level my Jedi a little more. That sub fee becomes a barrier which forces me to rethink if I REALLY want to play this game, and every time I’ve come away with “nah, not worth it”

    • http://twitter.com/EdwardvanRaak Edward van Raak

      Server costs in 2012 are almost next to nothing. This isn’t 1991 anymore, servers are cheap as hell and don’t require a 15 dollar sub. The proof can be found in both Blizzard and NCsoft financial reports.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Baesel/11612845 Jason Baesel

      I do not mind paying 15 dollars a month. For some people that 15 dollars a month can be huge, especially when you consider it building over time. 180 dollars over a year. That could be your co-pay at a doctors, or the cost medicine in a emergency. Or replacing something in your car you need to have to get to work. If you have the option between two games, one has a monthly fee and one doesn’t, both games are fairly interesting.

      F*** RIGHT you’d be drawn to the one with no monthly fees.

      Also imagine this, you have a family with…3 kids? And you all want to play together, well okay the box cost up front will be expensive of course. 300 bucks. Give or take. And now imagine that you had, on top that, to pay 180 dollars over a year for each of them to play. 900 bucks. That is nothing to shake a stick at.

      And just on a smaller level, yeah 15 dollars a month may not seem a lot but (as Austin points out) is…maybe you want to play the mmo, but you do not want to commit because…you want to play other games! As he said. 180 dollars a year is 3 more games. Also considering he is already paying for x-box live so he can play all of his x-box games…online. He’s already forking out 180 bucks or so a year for that. Not wanting to give up that, and not wanting to have spend another 180 dollars a year on top of it, makes sense he would be drawn to at least looking into it due to its lack of monthly fee.

      As for cost of servers, first off having a game with no monthly fee means people do not need to think about “hrmm if I buy this game….will I be able to keep paying over the next few months.” So they are more liable to buy the game, so over time it should sell more boxes than the average mmo, even if everyone does not keep playing it. It is a bit more like a standard game where people may just buy it because they are bored.

      Second there is the in game shop, and fluff items sell like hotcakes especially when the player base likes the company. I believe there have been studies done that cash shop games make more money than standard games, but of course that’s usually for different kind of cash shops. But none the less they’ll be making a lot of money there.

      And as someone else posted, servers are a lot cheaper than they used to be.

    • Sklys

      Offense taken. If a lot of folks in the world today had 15 dollars a month they could,
      1. feed their kids 2. feed them selfs 3. have a place live. Need I go on ?
      It is called real life and not gaming life.

      • MMO_Doubter

        You DO know that the box is going to cost $50-60, right? And you ain’t going to eat very well on 50c a day.

        • Sklys

          yep, I do know the cost of the game. The folks I talk about cant afford the game let alone the computer. This is why I dont play 15 dollars a month
          to play a game, instead I give 15 dollars  (more most of the time) to folks
          who can use it more than me.

      • http://twitter.com/taekicks Courtney Hicks

        This was set as a reply by accident…

      • Deffizzle

        yes sklys in a perfect world it can do all of that.  But you completely missed what i was saying. 

        • Sklys

          You do know this is NOT a perfect world. Just ask Mcsumo (and many others)  who are not loser as you say. They just choose to have bit of fun
          in there life and still live in the real world .

          • Deffizzle

            All im saying in this demegraphic is if your an adult an single( no kids) an your qqing about 15$ your a loser get a job

          • Senaji

            Why are you assuming everyone is in that DEMOGRAPHIC? Which adults do you think are here, on the internet, claiming to be gamers, who are adults with no kids and no job? Like it or not, there are people of the opinion that one game is not worth $15 a month. They may be single or married, with kids or without, and still play games, even if they don’t think one particular game is worth buying over and over again. They probably have jobs. Most adults here do. If you went out to a fancy dinner once a month that was $200, and other people said that wasn’t worth it TO THEM, would you be making judgements on them? What if someone’s thing is expensive, hand-knitted angora socks? Everyone makes their own decision on what they want to do with their money. Just because someone puts that fifteen dollars elsewhere, you call them a loser? What do you think I call people who have to put down strangers on the internet for making different choices about their preferred entertainment?

            By the way, it’s really hard to take seriously your arguments about where adults should spend their money when you write like a sixth-grader. Don’t bother blaming the phone again; it’s not eating apostrophes, and it knows how to spell.

    • Deffizzle

      Lets say you only get paid 5$ an hour, so after taxes you need to work 3.5hrs in two weeks to pay the monthly fee. If 15$I is a burden than should you even be playing video games in the first place. If you have children ya i get it my dad raised four if us as a widower. But if your a single person with not alot if responsibilities (ie. writing blogs about video games) then ya is 15$a that much of a push. Thats awesome tho if servers are that cheap, then GW2 will hopefully forever crush that stereotype. But to my main point how does paying 15$ a month affect your haming attitude. Shit you pay more than that to see a movies thsts 90mins of entertainment, when your paying fthat for a game thats 30days so $.50 a day. All im saying is paying monthly for 1mmo is really not that bad, an honestly if your over 1616 with no kids the whole i cant buy any groceries

    • dawolv

       Again – It’s not Free2Play- it’s Buy2Play!
      Servers are not as expensive as they used to be.
      And really, sure people HAVE 15 bucks to throw around each month, but paying that money makes you automatically feel bad if you don’t play the game as much as you possibly could. It’s the reason I never played MMO’s. Why can I buy a shooter (like TF2 back in the day) and play it for 3 1/2 Years for 20 bucks, but for a game like WoW, which for me is less fun due to gear grind, I have to pay 15 bucks a month?

      If 10 Million people fork over 15 bucks a month, do you know how many servers you can run? You could run half the internet with that!

      • jz100

        Plus $15 a month is a total ripoff.

    • Spammerbam

      The GW1 cash-shop model had proven to be very successful, so the Devs decided to stick to that model.
      There’s no guarantee that P2P games are successful; the last I can recall is WoW, while others failed terribly.

      So to speak, the majority of “faking loser”, AKA normal people whether gamers or those that have a life, have other higher priorities that they wish to spend their income on rather than a game. From the looks of your grammar and spelling errors, you should definitely graduate with a degree and live the real professional life first before making these types of comments.

      • Deffizzle

        1st typing on an Android phone blows, 2nd you still dont realize where im getting at.  All that i am is saying is this, if your older than 16 and your single, and bitching about paying or getting their moneys worth in the mmo is a lame excuse

        • Senaji

          You’re not making any sense. We’re not looking for an excuse to not clean our rooms like SOME people. We’re stating reasons why it may not be worth fifteen dollars a month to us. Factor in a full-time work schedule, possibly childcare, spending time with a significant other, any general have-tos like cooking, cleaning, not to mention other hobbies like reading (so YOU’RE literate), and the few hous of game time you have might not even be worth paying for it every month. $15 dollars a month= one MMO, or a brand-new game off the shelf every four months. Unless you wait for favorites collections, or game of the year editions, which are typically only $20. Being over sixteen does not imply a responsibility to buy things you don’t want. Being single doesn’t make a lot of sense to your argument , either, unless you’re suggesting every gamer who is single wants to stay alone all day clicking on their friend they bought, rather than having a social life and not being single forever. Maybe a game is all you need now that you’re over sixteen, but as an actual adult, I’m not giving up my relationships for an MMO.

    • XMP_Data_Guru

      They will get$15+ from most players thru the store.  More bank space, exp boost and such will have me spending my 15 I normally spend on  monthly fees on something else. And if they keep selling siege equipment to me for real money I am in love.  I spend more time making money so my family is well taken care of.  No reason I cant spend some of that money I earned with my time for the same stuff people spend tons of in game time to get.

      But there are those who are on a tight budget.  My oldest will be on one soon.  Just starting out and he would just avoid MMO totally but now I will just buy him the game as a gift and he can play on and off as a stress reliever.  I know that I swear by games as a great way to relax after a long day in the real world.

  • abujafer

    Guild Wars 1 is the game that captured me. I played a bit of WoW (got up to level 42) but never got into it. It never felt as epic as I wanted it to, nor did it feel like I was making an impact. This was after I’d played Guild Wars 1, which was absolutely amazing. While the expansions didn’t have the same polish as the Prophecies campaign, they were still pretty great (though the only one I finished was the Prophecies campaign; might even play it again in anticipation towards GW2).

    • Sklys

      If you can play the EotN (game 4) it is a great lead in to GW2.

  • http://twitter.com/DrickJulmust Arvid Villén

    gees, do a commercial :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1254015557 Scott Allen Abfalter

    Star Wars:The Old Republic got me off of WOW. 

    Diablo 3 got me off of SW:TOR. 

    Guild Wars 2 is not gonna kick me off of Diablo 3; but I will share time with them and doubt I will ever play a subscription MMO again.  GW2 will filll that niche without a monthly fee. 

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Now that I can understand.   I’m looking forward to 14 starting raid bosses in WoW MoP and the casual nature of GW2.

      • Old Ben

        Could you define “casual”…? 

        Compare levels 1-15 in GW2 to levels 1-15 in WoW and then tell me which one feels more like the kind of game you can play while talking on the phone and watching TV.

  • Sharuko

    I said it before and I will say it again, this video is a perfect example of where GW2 fails miserably.  The game has zero direction and has no role.  The game has no identity

    The game tries to cater to all aspects of the gaming genre and fails at it all.  Instead of trying to be good at one aspect it becomes average in many aspects.  Average is not a bad thing, but average doesn’t deserve the hype it is getting.

    GW2 tries to be “casual” and noob friendly but also tries to cater to the MMO veteran and is average at both.  The combat tries to be clicker friendly and then tries to add some depth with weapon switching and is average at both.  It tries to have dynamic content and old school quest design and is average at both. It tries to be competitive in PvP but then hides peoples names in WvW.  It tries to be open world and a world filled with instances and loading screens and fails at both.  It tries to cater to the PvE crowd and the PvP crowd and is average at both.  It tries to throw in some progression but then says that progression doesn’t matter.  “Levels” and “gear” don’t matter in some aspects of the game but matters in others.  Levels don’t matter in some aspects of the game but matters in others.  I can go on forever.  

    The devs when they wrote it up had a great plan, they wanted to be good at everything.  They probably realized too late (around 2010) that they probably should have focused on one aspect.  Now they will become a game that is average at everything instead of a game that is great at several strong aspects.

    GW2 is the most hyped average game I have every witnessed.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

      tera already sinking, where are you going to jump? lol.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

         He has no choice hes just straight hating cause Tera flopped.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

      You know a game that was insanely over hyped…Tera.

      You offer no points Sharuko only baseless accusations and a completely biased sense of self. Till you can take this game seriously…gtfo.

    • Jellybeen

      I’m so glad you feel this way Sharuko because that means you’re one less douchebag that ruins today’s mmos that I’ll have to deal with when I play GW2.  Have fun in Tera…while it lasts….

    • Jellybean2233

      • Sharuko

        That is cute.

        Constructive MMO Fan 1: GW2 is an average game and overhyped it has its flaws.

        GW2 Fan 1: You are a douchebag.

        How does me thinking GW2 is overhyped and an average MMO make me a douchebag?

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QKLPUWK6UHJPU4QR6HVBBAXYZA e k

          You know why people think you’re a douche Sharuko? Because you have nothing better to do than constantly troll about how GW2 sucks. If you were a normal person and you didn’t like GW2, you’d maybe make one or two comments and leave it at that. But no, you’re an obsessive douchebag who constantly comes back to bitch about GW2 sucking and deliberately provoking people. THAT makes you a total douchebag.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

            This is cute.

          Constructive GW2 Fan: GW2 is an awesome game and generally well accepted but it has its flaws.

          Sharuko: I don’t like it but I can’t really give an actual good reason cause I love Tera. And I love to Troll GW2 Fans cause it makes no sense whatsoever.

    • Pirhana7

      I was  GW2 hater also, Im a PVP person and ive been looking for a game to fill DAOCs pvp system.  since GW2 offers the 3way realm style PVP i figured id give it a shot and pre order it.  With that being said i played in the weekend beta.  I dont know how to explain it but right from level 1 the game grabs you and pulls you in.  I kept wanting to know what i was going to see next, leveling up was actually fun and just exploring the world was fun. The game just works.. i cant explain it lol and i usually hate PVE.  Anyways im glad i pre ordered it,  if you come across a guess pass or free trial you should atleast give it a chance, I think it would suprise you like it did me.

      • Sharuko

        I actually was following GW2 till I played it and it was probably one of the most average MMOs I have played.  It reminds me a lot of a Rift or Warhammer Online, both average games but not the second coming of the MMO genre.  GW2 is on the same league as other MMOs in the market today it is not better by any means.  It seems to me most GW2 players are ok with an average game as long as it had no subscription fees.  One guy right here on GBTV said he would play crappy MMOs if it had no subscription fees.

        I forced myself to level to level 5 during the first BWE and again to level 11ish during a stress test.  I don’t think I can play the game any longer.  I cough it up as a $80 dollar bad investment.  And I am 100% sure 60-70% of the launch population will not last more than 3-4 months in GW2.

        • Alex Cauthen

          I don’t really think you’ve played because you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all the game doesn’t cost $80, it costs $60. Second of all, the game caters to both the elitists and the casual players in both pve and pvp. In pve, the casual players can do the story content, and the story dungeons. The elite group can do the explorable portion of the dungeons which are supposed to be extremely difficult, so difficult that ArenaNet employees have a lot of difficulty completing them.

          Pvp is the same way. The game will hold tournaments in Spvp and will have Esports. But you probably don’t even know what that is. Casual pvpers can do whatever the hell they want.

          Also the game does have an action oriented combat system. You don’t have to tab target if you don’t want to, and if you do, you can. Maybe you should play the game again because your knowledge of the game is lacking.

          The game also doesn’t call itself server-less. Everyone is tied to a regional server, such as North America or Europe, within that region a person picks a server of their choice. However they aren’t bound by the server because they can still play with their friends cross server.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=543959331 Robert Kelford

           Sadly, you are probably one of the few that will just not like GW2.

          Probably the first issue is that you felt you had to force your way through the levels instead of letting them come naturally.

          A game should never be like this.

          Out of interest, what profession did you happen to be playing?

        • Pirhana7

          I accidently posted somewhere else so here it goes agin lol.   You made it to level 11.  level 1 threw 15 is basically training and its very easy.  Around level 20 it actually gets hard.  you will die if you dont pay attention.  Also level 11 is when you start to get skill points for traits, your character drastically changes once you start adding alot of points to traits and differs you from otehr playing teh same class.

          If you reallydont care for teh game thats fine, not everyone will, but you have to actually play apst the starter zone to see what its really like, and im guessing you didnt play Darkage of Camelot and know why everyone is so excited about GW2 s 3way world PVP. that is also some thing that becomes a cool experience at higher levels, its almost like a reason to build a character..so you can go and fight for your server and protect your lands.  this is also the endgame style alot of people have been waiting for.  Warhammer failed badly to do what DAOC did

    • Sklys

      Hang in there Sharuko, one day you may win one of these comments go arounds.
      Til then keep up the good work. Like said afore “love the Sunday funnies of the paper”

    • Spammerbam

       Aren’t you suppose to be playing Tera, instead of writing these long comments that doesn’t really specify why GW2 flops?

    • XMP_Data_Guru

      LOL read my first post on this thread.. your the 10% go back to wow or rift and make yourself feel good about your life while playing a game.  Because its obvious your one of those who needs it.

  • http://twitter.com/taekicks Courtney Hicks

     Guild Wars 1, 7 year anniversary. Need I say more?

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Yeah, played WoW with alot of former level 20 GW1 players.  They couldn’t follow the story and couldn’t find people for harder content.

  • http://twitter.com/taekicks Courtney Hicks

     $180 in groceries for a family of 5 is 2 weeks. Can you go without food for 2 weeks? Try.

    • MMO_Doubter

       Can you cut out $15 a month from your food budget? Most can by eliminating pop or snacks.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

         Go back to WoW plox.

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          Not sure if Courtney is talking about hardcore console gamers, who might spend $180 on three console games.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=543959331 Robert Kelford

        $15 a month is fine for one game, it’s affordable. The problem occurs if you happen to be the ADD type that plays a game for a week at a time, then switches to something else for a week, and maybe comes back in a month, or two, or more.

        This is actually the typical play style for the majority of gamers out there.

        Now lets examine this from a cost perspective.

        Initial game price, $50-$60… It will be played for a week before wanting to play something else, so that means you need 4 games to start with. We are already at $200-$240 just as the initial investment.

        Each of these games also happens to have a monthly sub of $15/month. So now we are also factoring that in to the cost.

        To be able too skip in and out of these 4 games at will for a year we are now looking at $860-$900 a year. Certainly not an insignificant amount.

        How about we consider how many non-subscription games that could have purchased? 15? 16?

        That’s also three months worth of groceries at $10/day, maybe the cost of electricity for half a year to a year, your property taxes, a flight to see your family for a few days on the other side of the world or a 7.5 year supply of pain medication for that back problem.

        So yeah, that $15 a month may not seem like much to you.

        For everyone else, it’s priceless.

  • Sharuko

    The last casual noob friendly MMO was SWTOR.  It brought the “console” player  to MMOs.  Looks like GW2 is SWTOR Part 2, good for them.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

      I question if you have anything else better to do than just blatantly bash the soon to be MMO of the Year? Quite illogical to say the least.

      • Sharuko

        I have never bashed Tera.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/SMGRLFM4UASOO7QO26HTHBLIOI Shawn

          You know what I meant, Tera is nothing compared to the gravity and depth and width that GW2 provides. Continue to hate it only makes this game stronger. You can’t quell the tide there is nothing you can do so why even comment? I’m all about the numbers and where the numbers lack..is in Tera not in GW2.

          • MMO_Doubter

            Gravity? WIDTH?

            BWA HA HA HA. Thanks for that.

        • TacoBaal

           But Tera is dead.

        • http://www.facebook.com/itsJUSTINduh Justin Klammer

           Tera? Sounds like a shitty game. Oh ya because it is. :)

        • Spammerbam

           You don’t need to.. it already failed in Korea, Japan, and now NA.

    • XMP_Data_Guru

      SWTOR just sucked as a game period.  Me and my wife played DAOC.  Casual but we ran dragon raids.. ML3 raids… DF raids.  Never took anything for it and had fun.  We did tons of RVR and helped out where needed.  Elitist are the one who kill games.

  • Andrew Downing

    Its lazy people like Austin that are ruining the video game industry…12 hour games? way too short.

    • dawolv

       Depends on the game. If those 12 hours were really fun…
      Cut out all the standing around selling stuff in MMO’s, how much are you left with a month?

      It’s just like you’d say after movies like The Dark Knight noone should go see a movie with less than 140mins runtime…

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        12 hours of the Dark Knight, now thats a movie.

  • cthulutaur

    how many top 5’s can you possibly do about guild wars? wow.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Depends on when GW2 is released.   Once released, GamebreakerTV will then start on the top 5 list on what needs to be fixed in GW2.

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    Sorry, filling up hearts is basically fetch quests.  Hitting all the points of interest is fedex quests.

    Dynamic Events, sorry don’t find them immersive.  While the professions are well designed and the game is fun to play, I’m having a real hard time following the lore and story in GW2.

    I’m finding the personal story to be the weakest, least innovative part of the game. For the next BWE, I’m following the advise of the various players and skipping the personal story and focusing on exploring the world.

    I do agree, GW2 is a little carebear. Jumping into a large Dynamic Event was an easy way to get credit for an encounter. I found the Dynamic Event with fewer players was more of a challenge and required alot more coordination.    
    I am concerned about the level 50, 60, 70 and 80 content of GW2.  The casual leveling path and the type of players this might attract, may lead to barren higher level content and only solo play.  If you dont hit 80 by the time hardcore players hit 80, you may never see the world bosses.

    • XMP_Data_Guru

      LOL sorry but elitist end game jerk guilds are the only ones who want large end game raids they can run.  They want to run who goes.. want to run who gets what.  Tried that in DAOC, WOW and tribes.  99% of the time the leaders and LT’s are no life people who try to get there urge for power in a MMO.  While people like me and my wife who have busy jobs in charge of people all day just want to log in and have fun with friends not deal with adults who act like high students running for prom king and queen.

      From what I have seen GW2 gets rid of all that.  5 man end game instances.  Loot is handed out by the game not a leader who chooses, or players who try to take everything.  WVWVW is DAOC 2.0 from what I have played.  

      Arenanet has learned the secret.  Elitist end gamers are only 10% of any games player base.  So you make a game to the 90% not the 10%. 

      Every person I see who doesnt seem to like GW2 all seem to fit into the elitist end gamer.  So if you want that go play WOW or Rift.  They both cater to the 10%.  

      Lets see who ends up on top in 2 years… the games who cater to the 10% or those who cater to those who play seriously but dont feel the need to have to have 20 other people who all spec the perfect way and play that way.  My money is on GW2.  The days of elitist end game MMO’s are over.

      • Feebsy

        You mean team based endgame. MMOs need to take a turn away from entitlement. Grow up.

        • XMP_Data_Guru

          LOL not entitlement.. I take no help from any goverenment.. and I am near the top tax bracket.  So take your little boy entitlement crap and toss it.

          You can make challenging 5 man and world events.  And WvWvW is all about team work.  

          You scream kid in parents basement living off the government and working at McD.

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            lol, it’s kinda funny you mentioned elitist end game jerk, you are now sounding like the elitist jerk.

            Once of the great things about MMOs is the diversity of the player base.  I’ve run with MLB baseball players and pizza delivery drivers.  The teen who was a world class healer and older players who have played video games forever.
            You really get to know your guildies in raids.

            Really hoping for 5 man content and world events, time will tell. 

            While there is simple teamwork around WvW siege engines, the majority of WvW is a zergfest.  Fun, but still a zergfest.

          • XMP_Data_Guru

            Anyone who calls someone says I feel entitled because of what I said I called you out on it.  And you never replied.. how much assistance does your entitled butt get?  If you get any then you accused me of something you do not me. Make sure you use your words properly when you insult. 

      • jz100

        Plus all the people trashing GW2 have never even played it, and don’t have a clue what they are talking about.

        I’ve also read lots of articles how competitors to companies hire people to troll forums. It’s truly pathetic.

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          So far I’ve log about 30 hours in GW2 BWE.  Hoping for another 30 hours next BWE.  The game is fun to play, but it’s not the second coming of MMOs. 

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Wow, that’s a lot of hate there XMP, sounds like you raided with the wrong people.   I’ve pug healed for guilds like that before (got a good reputation as a healer), but wouldn’t run with them week after week. I’m more than happy with my social guild.  

        For me raiding is more of a social experience, working with the people, building teams, working with a common goal.  It’s just plain fun. 

        Taking loot out of the hands of  loot masters, does seem the way modern MMOs are going. WoW MoP is moving to that model.

        Looking forward to the 5 man instances in GW2, they should be fun, but don’t think I’ll be running them in two years.

        XMP, you still haven’t answered why players or enough players will level to max level in GW2. I’ve simply talked to my WoW guides that uses to play GW1, the common answer was, I left GW1 when I couldn’t get my guildies to run instances or harder content.  

        Personally, I’m going to play WoW MoP and GW2.  Raiding to my hearts content in MoP and WvW like crazy in GW2.

        • XMP_Data_Guru

          Great raid till your eyes bleed in WOW.  Read all the interviews with the Arenanet staff they all say the same thing….. NO RAIDING!  And they get asked over and over because a 10% loud raider players base wont let it die.  Sorry your super large raiding that has been proven to be a super minority in game and a waaaaay to loud minority on the boards.

          Get it thru you head… anything over 5 man is not going to happen in a instance environment.  All large raids will be open world with no single person keeping track of dragon points or what ever the current idiot system is.

          They got rid of griefing and large instance raids.  They have taken away control of looting from players and the servers control it all now.  Its what most players want in a game.  Just that loud 10% wont give up thinking they can have a game molded to there play style and the company is not giving in this time.

  • tchalla lemou

    Gary – What are you wearing bud?  Its kinda of a jedi/mummu.   You’re better than this!!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/THJWE4XEXAMAPW3CUGPFYCUDHE Prime

    Good story but has some flaws:

    1) The Free to Play Model isnt popular yet because regardless smaller non-indie companies just cant absorb the “no money” up front model. A company needs that income to ensure it can continue functiong. Yes HUGE games and companies like GW2 can absorb that because everyone is on board, but others have no chance…

    This is why you wont see a “HUGE” switch to Free to play….thats like asking people to “Free to Work” Hey JOhn..can you work for free if we hire you? Few if anyone is gonna do that for real jobs.

    2) The gaming industry cannot cater to “I have no schedule, wanna play a few hours anytime I want, im a noob” gamers. It will continue the decay of the industry. This is EXACTLY why WOW is starting to decay and lose subs…. they started catering to the “I wanna log on play 1 hr a day and yet have same EPIC Gear as a Raider who spends hours working at it”.

    Companies that continue to cater to this are going to lose their core audiences….and you can have all the fluff “casuals” you want…but if theres a ROTTEN core…itll collapse… that applies to EVERYTHING in this world.

    • Jamie McBlah

      GW2 isn’t exactly.. Free2Play
      Free2Play games have neither subscription fee or purchase fee to play the game
      granted a lot of f2p games still have a sub based membership, and in most cases, they greatly reduce the features for free membership.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/THJWE4XEXAMAPW3CUGPFYCUDHE Prime

    Yes to the other points:

    1) The questing, dynmaic events are almost directly analygous to Fetch and grind quests in WOW. its a bit of a spin but its the same.

    2) SOrry but many many players are having trouble with consistent lore, events, etc. The problem with walking into an area and instantly being part is i completed so MANY of these without effort. Some you need to work at…some you just need to put min effort in to achieve.

    Altho its interestingly different to a certain extent…people are making GW2 look like the second coming of Jesus….and its not sadly.

    Is it a new fresh world to explore YES… and thats the MAJOR draw 7 years of wow and IM SIC of WOW… i dont wanna even log in cuz im bored to tears.

    But I enjoyed The Secret World alot because it was a fresh new world…and fun quests.

    I think this years MMOs have made a STEP forward in MMO evolution, but they are not THERE yet.

    GW2 PVP….after we see it in RELEASE…..well seriously best PVP to date was DAOC. It was AWESOME. We are talking what 2000/2001? Yet the pvp was amazing back then in DAOC.

    The WvW i was in wasnt that impressive….it reminded me of  RIFT… pushing forward then inching back….

    The characters still seem too “LIGHT” like gary described TSW combat… youdont have the VISCERAL feel WOW does…

    if GW2 combined the VISCERAL feel of WOW pvp with the scope and depth of GW2 pvp…then it would be a true contender.

  • Spammerbam

    4.) It Doesn’t Encourage Douchebags

    I like that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=506728308 Julian F’n Mugnieco

      I don’t understand how discouraging female hygiene is a positive.

      • Spammerbam

         So you encourage female hygiene? I’m not sure where you’re getting at this.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=506728308 Julian F’n Mugnieco

          twas a joke. a “douche” is a female hygiene product

  • http://www.facebook.com/rtloveless Ryan Tyler Loveless

    I’m sorry, but all you people bashing this game obviously haven’t PLAYED the MMO. I played WoW. I couldn’t enjoy it. It was boring. Had no help, and could never find a party to do a dungeon/instance with. And I just wanted to enjoy the PvP part. I couldn’t. I had to be at the end game in order have any fun. Or I had to grind for HOURS in order to enjoy any “epic” gear. But in GW2 you can just straight into the PvP. And it relies on SKILL. Not upon GEAR like WoW does. WoW is all about Gear, where GW2 is about strategy and skill. Play the actual game. Stop being Elitist. Some of us actually work 40+ hours a week, we don’t dwell in our mother’s basement and can only enjoy a few hours a week playing the game. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Feyd-Darkholme/100000194391744 Feyd Darkholme

      You don’t have to be at level cap in WoW to do instances OR more importantly PvP. In fact I find the pre-level cap PvP AND PvE more enjoyable in a lot of ways. Not to mention that with the robust LFG/R system in WoW it’s pretty easy to find groups for instances. Not to say I don’t more or less agree with the main point you’re trying to get across, but you undermine your credibility by making false statements. Not to mention your little dig at WoW players as basement dwelling losers… Not conducive to anyone taking your arguments seriously

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/Z2KUNXZM6Z4EMZW2YFJX2IB3HY Simeon

        I dunno, I played WoW for 7+ years and I did meet alot of basement dwelling losers… not to mention pure redneck trailer trash and attention hungry teenage kids constantly “trolling” chat channels with the next dumbass LOOK AT ME comment. Alot of the reason I stopped playing the game was the majority crowd of people playing it. And yes, to get the most out of WoW you do have to sink alot of hours into playing it every week. I guess if you don’t mind the crappy watered down gameplay of the LFR system or just doing random battlegrounds, then you can get everything you need out of the game in terms of enjoyment in about 1-2 hours a day.

    • Sharuko

      In GW2 class and comps play as big as a role as it does in WoW.  If you think GW2 is based solely on skill you are in for a huge surprise.  My guardian was unkillable when I took him in the Battle of Khlo, so much so I had to laugh and log off.

      • jz100

        I hate trolls who spread bs on the forums. For one thing, common sense would tell anyone reading that comment, that no person would pay the $60 required to enter the beta, log in the game and “laugh”, and log out.

        Fact is, this game is great, and no trolling will be able to change the truth.

      • Spammerbam

         I find Tera much more hilarious.

      • Pirhana7

        You said you only got to level 11.  level 1 threw 15 is basically training…. after level 20 it actually gets hard, if you dont dodge you will die,  a shield guardian does have alot more survivability but after the 1st zone stuff will swarm you and kill you if your not carefull, some basic mobs can kill you with 2 power attacks if they land.  Also level 11 is when you actually start to get your skill points for traits and you start making yourself different from the other people.

      • Jamie McBlah

        From what I’ve seen in Beta
        PVP and the WvWvW  things, your automatically at the Level Cap.
        at the moment I’m not to sure if it’s just for Beta or if it’s own it will always be. But if that’s how it will always be. .then yeah, It is skill and strategy since everyone has everything unlocked in the PVP worlds, Just a matter of finding what you can use and work with best.

  • Aristotle OnceSaid

     you know a game will be a big hit when there are already fans and haters bashing each other long before its release

    • Time_warp

      This isn’t unique to GW. It’s been going on forever across many good and bad games.

  • Senaji

    Not trying to start an argument, but is there ever a level playing field? Some people have extra cash, some don’t. Some people have three hundred hours to play in a month, others have only ten. Some people grew up on Duck Hunt, and others were handed a keyboard at their birth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Johnson/1353890372 Michael Johnson

    People don’t want o pay 15 a month not because they can’t afford it but because the principle of paying for a game you already bought is wrong.

    And don’t tell me you’re paying for the patches. Diablo 3 is getting regular patches and you don’t have to pay a cent in sub fees

    • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

      I find it very odd that you are saying that people dont want to pay a sub for a game. There are many mmos out there doing just fine with sub model. Look at wow, 10million+ subs. How can you still say “people dont want sub” ?

      • Senaji

        I think he may be talkng about the specific subset of people who don’t like subs, and offering a reason why.

        • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

          Ah we cant look at wow now? why not? wow is the perfect example that if you make a very good and strong game with good xpacs, people will play 15 dollars a month. Dont bother saying “it does not count”. It does. Sub model games are not done, the game just need to be good enough for it.

          • Senaji

            I never said or implied that WoW doesn’t count. My point was that the earlier comment can be read in different ways. One is that people don’t like subs. Since there clearly are people who don’t mind paying them, that’s probably not an accurate way to read it. Another way to read it is “[The] people [who don’t like subs] don’t like them because they don’t want to buy the game twice,” (paraphrased), which offers an explanation of WHY the people who dislike subs dislike them, not a general statement that no one will pay subs. Clear yet?

      • http://www.facebook.com/chaz.rpg Chaz Davis

        Those 10 million didnt pay for the Box+Subscription, in Asia you can walk up to a playroom and pay to play WoW by the hour, and you dont even need to buy the game.

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          Last count I heard it was just over 5m for the west and just under 6.5m for the east.   I dont even think that includes the asian Internet cafes count. I even read the China WoW subs are only couple of dollars per month.   

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/IJ72UJ7OKVEIGGXYAIN6NU7ZRM thomas

        name another sub-based MMO that has grown and flourished in the last 3 years.  You can’t use WoW as a comparison in this case, it is its own beast at this point.  

        Every sub based MMO released in the last few years has experienced negative growth in terms of subscribers. Many have gone to f2p models (Lotro, DCUO, AoC)

        It doesn’t help that every sub based MMO released in the last few years has followed the WoW game mechanics model as well.  Players are sick of that as much as they are sick of paying monthly fees.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      It’s not just for patches.
      For an online game there are servers to maintain and that means:
      1) hardware replacement because stuff is going to wear out
      2) renting space at a datacenter
      3) paying for the bandwith
      4) paying for the electricity to run all the
      5) paying employees for all sorts of things
      6) paying for all the stuff required to create/test/deploy patches, just distributing the patches is going to cost the company money

      If you go with virtual servers then you could get rid of two of those but that still leaves plenty of things that need to be paid for.

      The reason developers provide post launch patches is because they want people to buy their next game. No software is ever going to launch with zero bugs and if people know the developers won’t be fixing the bugs then people aren’t going to buy the new product.

  • http://twitter.com/KittehGray Rob ‘Paul’ Gray

     I see that almost all my guild-mate’s want to keep playing WOW only because of the money and time they’ve spent in it. Almost all of them would play it if WOW’s fee was not there.  Again, good on y’all Arena.net.

  • Senaji

    “If you spend real money on XXXX, you’re not a success in real life.”

    Now, replace the Xs with something you like to spend money on, because someone out there thinks that. Why is it so difficult to understand that there is no one right way to have a hobby? You do your thing and let everybody else do theirs, as long as it’s not hurting anyone.

  • Senaji

    Yeah! I don’t typically like MMOs, so I’m going to play something else, even though it looks like I’ll enjoy this one. In related news, I’m not going to try a book I’d like if it’s not my favorite genre, and I won’t be trying any new food if I don’t like what it’s called.

    Seriously, there are clearly people who wanted to play exactly this game. Can we drop complete segregation of gamers, or is everybody going to be all, “You got peanut butter in my chocolate?”

  • Senaji

    I get your point, and I don’t like all the pre-release game-hating, but if you think judging someone by skin color stops at disparaging comments on the internet, you may have missed a few history classes. If not, I’d like to move to your word, as it’s clearly nicer than here.

  • Gussy2000

    Point 3 rings true with me; I am a husband and father and work 40 hours a week.  Before my son, with the first GW I could stay up all weekend if I wanted to and play.  That is just not an option for me now.  I will have to get my Tyria in doses which is a bummer as THIS Tyria is far more immersible than the old one.  I guess I’ll have to send the wife and child away from time to time :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/Filecreator Daniel de Ridder

      Personally I convinced my girlfriend to play as well, but then again, we dont have a kid ;3

      • Gussy2000

        You can rent mine :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Lazarowitz/100000420795554 Steve Lazarowitz

    I wasn’t sold on this game till I read the comments by MMODoubter. Now I am. Thanks.


    Looks cool, sounds cool, also interesting. But I still have to wait and see if this is all just hype or a real game-changer.

  • http://twitter.com/thetotaltitan Total Titan

    I’m going to be honest here… watching that video made me want to play Guild Wars 2 less. 

    If it appeals to someone like him, who doesn’t like interaction, won’t join a guild, and plans on not making it to max level – is that someone we really want influencing the design of these games? 

    It frightens me to my very core that Anet called out this video specifically. 

    • DoctorOverlord

      I actually find it encouraging to see the wide range of interest in GW2 coming from both sides of MMO-veterans and non-MMO gamers.   ArenaNet has said they are as much about making communities as making games and a community isn’t just people who all think and act same.  Diversity is what gives a community strength.  

      Part of the reason MMOs have stagnated for so long is because they’ve catering to a single type of player – hardcores who can devote huge amounts of time.     Even in WoW, customers adapted to that particular playstyle or they couldn’t really be considered an MMO player. 

      ArenaNet seems to making an MMO that can bring together different types of players into a single community.  People talk about the new game mechanics and systems of GW2 but they often overlook ArenaNet’s goal of community.   Not a community formed out of necessity because of flawed, asinine game mechanics but rather one that forms because the game nurtures it.  

      Years ago ArenaNet’s head, Mike O’Brien said ‘If you love MMOs you should check out GW2.   And if you hate MMOs, you really should check out Guild Wars 2.”    What if ArenaNet pulls it off?   What if they acutaly make an MMO that both hardcore MMO vets and non-MMO players both love?

      That could be something more groundbreaking that all of the new mechanics in GW2 put together.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Starting to sound like Arenanet just wants to sell alot of boxes.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=543959331 Robert Kelford

           Of course they do! They have bills to pay.

          At least Gw2 will be offering a lot more than 20 hours of game play for that $60…

        • dawolv

          They are a company that has to make an income to survive. We as players appreciate a cheap price point, but you should also keep in mind that, if you like the product, every dollar spent is helping keeping the game alive. In a MMO that’s more true than anywhere

        • Sharuko

          If you have played NCSoft games for a while you would know that is what NCSoft’s marketing is really good at.  They used it with Tabula Rasa and they mastered it with Aion.  They pump and dump their games.  They will pump this up as the second coming of the MMO genre and dump it soon after.

          Notice all the marketing briefs by them including the most recent one about the upcoming BWE. They try to force GW2 fans to talk about the game to everyone and evangelize the game.

          The CEO (Mike O’Brien) actually went to Reddit and asked GW2 fans to post on /r/Gaming for more publicity and more hits. They have no boundaries and will go all out to market their game.

          • http://www.facebook.com/michael.vaneeckhoute Michael Van Eeckhoute

             thats why GW1 had 3 expansions.. Aion and and Tabula Rasa failed, thats why the left them, nots some evil scheme like you suggest here

        • DoctorOverlord

          Isn’t that the goal of any company?     I don’t think an MMO is ever designed with the intention of *not* selling boxes.

          If you can make an MMO that appeals to a broader range of players than ever before, do you stop from making it because of some fear that it will dilute the elitism and ‘purity’ of hardcore MMOs of the past or do you go ahead and make the game anyway because you realize the MMO genre needs to evolve? 

          The real test will be the quality of what ArenaNet is selling in all those boxes.     Whether it’s  just empty hype to get people’s cash or is it something real that is worth the money?     

          Judging from the reactions of press and my own experiences in the beta, it feels like there is more than just hype here.    They have so far made their stated goals reality.   We just have to see if they can keep doing it up to and after the game’s release. 

    • testguy111

       then you don’t really get GW2 or have played it.

      the point here is, that the gamer is BIG, big enough to cater to a number of different playstyles or expectations.

      nothing he said takes anything away from anyone. that you have a problem with this just shows that you have a problem with people new to the genre.

      that in itself says nothing about GW2, but a lot about you.

      games need new players. it’s not even out yet and you complain about it drawing in new people who were not ultra hardcore MMO fans before…

      you sound like a wanna-be elitist jerk.

      I’ve played MMOs since the days of Meridian 59 and almost everything since. the one thing I’ve learned is, that once a game cannot draw new people from different backgrounds, it’s dead.

      my most favorite game is EVE and it’s as hardcore as it gets, but the biggest breath of fresh air was goonswarm, a bunch (tens of thousands) of noobs who had no idea about EVE and just started to fuck around and piss everyone off.

      it was a lot of fun.

      if you exclude people who are not 1337 enough for you, your highness, then you’re killing the game

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000075821442 Rick Richard

    awesome.guild wars is appealing to the mass/

  • Randall Burt

    wow. old footage is old. Stuff in game wasn’t that slow when my character was standing still, much less wondering about fighting.

  • DoctorOverlord

    Really nice article and interesting viewpoint.  Excellent points especially about bringing flexbility in our gaming schedules.     For too long MMOs have dictated the schedules of their players, demanding their time as well as their money.   (And for some crazed reason people have gone along with this all too willingly)

    It’s about time for an MMO that let’s customers play when they want and how they want rather than making them adapt to a particular playstyle or twisting their schedule because of flawed forced grouping/raiding mechanics.

    It will be very interesting to see Austin’s reaction to playing GW2 for the first time.   You should FRAPS it and post the video.   It would likely be helpful to ArenaNet to see the reaction of someone unfamiliar with MMO mechanics.

  • Goath

    My question is, with all of these changes, they make being different levels not as important to most things, so that brings up the question of what purpose is leveling serving? Also, if good gear is not difficult to get, then what are you really working for? After you explore most of the content in the game, what type of motivation do you have to play? I know in my experience, a lot of the motivation of playing was to achieve what these super powerful high level guys had. Sure, it has its draw backs, but it was a representation of the work you had put in. It seems like GW2 might be making things too even, to where there is not as much motivation to put in time. A metaphor being communism to capitalism. 

    • Goath

      I just think the biggest thing going for GW2 is that it is new, and it is a middle ground between MMOs and other more typical games. Like a Tablet is to a smartphone and a laptop. I think it will have its own niche, but once its no longer a new world where you don’t know whats going to happen, and level progression/gear progression goals were removed due to the bad parts of them, what does it have going for it?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=543959331 Robert Kelford

        Apparently it will have regularly updated dynamic events in each zone, precisely so that you never know whats going to happen in a given area.

        For the explorer types that is Mecca.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2060621 Robert Haynes

      That’s the beauty of the game: if you are playing to get to max level, you are doing it wrong.

      You play to have fun, and there are many different ways of progressing. You can lvl up in PvE or WvW. You can craft and explore for substantial experience. Heck, I got to level 16 in the BWE hardly fighting ANYTHING…I just went around exploring 3 main cities.

      After you are done exploring all the facets of the game, you can do what you find is fun. And if you don’t find anything fun after completing all the content (which is quite a bit…), you can put the game down and do something else. No monthly fee to worry about means you don’t have to play just to feel like you’re getting your money’s worth.

    • http://twitter.com/kurosov Anthony Marsh

      Levelling acts as a buffer to all the choices you have to make on your characters. As you level you get more choices available (skills, traits). This stops the player from being overwhelmed with choice before they have gotten to grips with the game mechanics. It also stops you running ahead and just doing the later stuff (people in gw1 often skipped half the content in runs then complained there was no content to play, kinda counter -productive).
      You don’t “work” for the loot. The point of the game is you play because you enjoy playing the game. The single biggest flaws is other mmo’s is the assumption that you should have to work doing often boring and repetitive things just to be able to play the good parts. Nice skins are there for those that like to work but it in no way makes them more powerful than those that like to just explore etc.

  • BossFi

    I’m kinda in the same boat. I have played other mmos but I only last about 3 months because I get bored. So all the hours and money invested is wasted because I would have had more fun playing my favourite types of games like FPS.

    I did enjoy the first guild wars and kept going back to it months later to play pvp. Plus without a subscription it feels more relaxed and is easy to take a break for a few weeks to go play new games when they get released.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jason.horton2 Jason Horton

    Does anyone else find that these videos never buffer fast enough? it shouldnt be my internet as im at 100mbps speeds and can buffer HD videos in an instant, others have this problem too? its consistently just on these news storys though. loads fine on GBTV’s programs like guildcast etc

  • H S

    #4 is my own personal favorite. The amount of griefers, hackers, sociopathis, little kiddies who pull the wings off of butterflies for fun, have ruined many games for me. One of the main reason I won’t put up with the Tera grind is because I know full well the community is ful of what I mentioned above. Anet has put so many things in place to make these people feel unwelcomed, and to me that was a key selling point. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/Filecreator Daniel de Ridder

     Please, name your favorite singleplayer, offline game.
    (preferable one with quite a lot of game time in it. 30+ or so)
    Now imagine forking over $15 to the developpers.
    seems silly righ? Why would you feel inclined to fork them over for social interaction as well?

  • stuph_3

    Anyone who thinks kill stealing is even remotely douchebag behavior has no place writing articles about MMOs, because he has no fucking idea what he’s talking about.

    Also, when was the last game kill stealing mattered? Like, eq1?

    Author is just an idiot who would like WoW if he actually played it, but is trying to be hipster by saying he doesn’t. lol @ this article getting published at all. This website needs some quality control.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/OABTMHSNAQ7DNEJO6T5E4VSTOI Mr.Mustacho

       don’t mean to alarm you but i think you might be a douchebag

    • JT999

      Speaking of having no fucking idea…

      “Also, when was the last game kill stealing mattered? Like, eq1?”

      How about all of them except GW2?

      You have done quests where you need to kill one named mob haven’t you?

      How about resource gathering where you play the “mini-game” of grabbing the node before the other guy does or (even douchebaggier) while he’s fighting the mobs guarding it?

      Another thing not mentioned in the article but equally huge in stamping out douchebaggy behavior is the total separation of PVE/PVP… no low-level camping/ganking for you.

      I’m with Mr. Mustachio on this one… hope you stay away from GW2.

    • Wrath Oranos

      That’s brilliant since the opinion was clearly stated to be from someone who ISN’T familiar with MMOs and doesn’t play them.  That’s the whole crux of his commentary.  He’s offering a point of view as to why someone like himself is interested the game.

  • Daniel Baker

    “This game might just have wait it takes to convert me…”

    First of all, that really got published?  I usually overlook things like that but come on, it’s your freaking job.  >_>

    Onto my input – point 1 you don’t play fetch.  Well… yes you do – but more like my dog where he runs after the tennis ball and then walks away after he gets it.  At least in every starter zone – you walk into an event and people are either crying for help or you get a prompt saying “please bring me such-and-such”.  However I don’t get why people don’t like playing fetch, it’s a game do you want absolutely nothing to do?  If you don’t want to hunt 10 deer in any game, the quest remains active till you get interested in doing it… same thing in GW2 you just have to stop thinking inside the box that Anet’s made for you.point 2, I’ve read the books, I’ve played the beta’s (and will continue to).  But I hardly see how you can come to this conclusion with the limited level of involvement we’ve had access to.  It’s addicting sure, but engaging?  Maybe my attention span is just greater than yours…point 3, I work overnight so I hear ya… however I plan to be active in a guild still.  Think about this for a second, does everyone only play during certain times of the day?  No, people all get on randomly either on days off or vacations etc… so even though I won’t be awake/home when my guild does events – I’m always going to be online when the guild’s inactive and that means no one else in my guild will be bored sitting around by themselves cause they got the short straw that day.  You want to be a loner fine… saying your schedule prevents you from being a good guildee is a lame excuse.

    point 4, unfortunately I disagree… I don’t mind camping a monster for a while, competition in claiming it is sometimes exciting.  The thing I dislike more – is when douchebags don’t shut up.  This game encourages douchebags mainly because of your 5th point… after paying a simple 60 dollars – they have a place they can go to forever to troll just because they don’t have any ‘good’ games to play.  I’m not looking forward to the part of release where all the idiots who have a need to feel self-important decide to log in and be douchebags.

    point 5 though, is unquestionably accurate.  Wanna know why people who enjoy WoW and other MMOs are spending time here complaining about GW2 trying to downplay it’s awesomeness?  Cause they’re stupid enough to spend thousands of dollars on a single game that’s barely “good” compared to 2005 gaming standards.  If they can’t convince themselves this game’s not going to be good then they’d have to question why they still play WoW and that simply cannot be!As a sidenote, I wonder if Anet would consider giving away free 3 months subscriptions to WoW to further discourage douchebags from buying their game…

    • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

      this just in GW2 community is the best ever out there and everything else sucks. Seriously, there are 10mill+ people playing wow how can you put same staple on them all?

      • Daniel Baker

        Lol since you asked I’ll elaborate.  The ones playing WoW that aren’t admitting to actually playing GW2 – are they ones spending all their time bashing it.  Just trying to show that I can spend no time playing WoW and bash it too.

        We could all use a nice steaming cup of STFU, but so long as they wanna act like idiots I reserve the right to do the same.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZTPWK3SG7QO4ZP3WHO32ELTMUE Daniel

    Gary, Never wear that shirt again! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yu-Jin-Chia/100000526858085 Yu-Jin Chia

    Got to say, I have been a (hardcore) MMO player before and stopped largely because of these things- sheer lack of time, always feels like the same old grind, lacks immersion, lots of people I really rather not deal with, and costs money every month. Can’t really argue with anything this guy says, they’re all very valid points.

    I’m still a bit skeptical as to whether GW2 will have enough content to be worth looking at, but it’s good to know you can do things without a guild or party. That was one big prob with the original GW all the way up till Nightfall. Either way, I might actually try this out even though there’s a glut of fantasy RPGs at the moment.

  • Nathan Hulse

    Follow-up posts would be great. Its refreshing to hear from a journalist who usually eschews MMOs talking about Guild Wars 2. I think a lot of people who have played MMOs for considerably lengths of time (i.e. not ‘noobs’) but later stopped playing them althogether might share Austin’s perspective. Its not so much about being a noob, as being wise to the fact that an MMO tends to play you, rather than YOU playing it; its about being far enough from the MMO scene to see it for the stale, money grubbing treadmill that it is.

    Personally, I really enjoyed the 1st BWE. Yes, the hamster wheel is still there, albeit artfully disguised, but I get the feeling that Guild Wars 2 will not punish me too much by reducing the fun on offer if I decide I do not want to invest half my life (and years of subscription fees) into it. Its ironic that MMOs purportedly strive to provide a living, dynamic world and yet they treat players like glorified automatons. Heres hoping Guild Wars will break the mold to some extent.

  • Ariantha

    New Zealand FTW!  For some reason I’ve joined a European guild….can’t really explain why….

  • Ashley

    I know this is a bit old, but thank you so much for making this video/post. I’m on the fence about Guild Wars 2, though it’s improved from what I heard much more than when this was made–as I’m like Austin in that I’m a single-player RPG’r. I love to feel like I’m in the world, or in the very least, care about the characters involved. Was kindly given a free trial key from a player, so I’m looking forward to trying it out. Thanks! :)