Guild Wars 2 will revolutionize how people play MMOs.

I know, you’ve heard that before. And if you’re on the other side of the fandom fence, you’ve got a litany of disagreements to counter that claim:

  • Renown hearts and dynamic events are just gussied-up “kill 10 rats” quests.
  • Combat isn’t that interesting. Tab-targeting FTL.
  • World versus world boils down to zerg versus zerg.
  • Dynamic events just copy Warhammer Online/Rift.
  • Personal storyline? Seen it, killed a Sith lord, moved on.

These, and others, aren’t invalid complaints. At its core, the gameplay of Guild Wars 2 is arguably not light years ahead of other MMOs. Some people, myself included, like it a lot, but others have developed a burning hatred of tab-targeting and hotbars in such a brief timespan that it makes the the electroweak epoch look like a billion years.

mmorpg guild wars 2 mmorpg     The GW2 Evolution

Guild Wars 2 takes many things that other MMOs have done well and adopted them. Nobody, not even ArenaNet, disputes this. Every MMO is going to look, in some ways, like other MMOs that came before it. Guild Wars 2 is no different. You’ll play it and, at various points, think “This is just like MMO X!”

And you’ll be right.

But Guild Wars 2 is better for the things it doesn’t do. For once, this is one case where focusing on the negative is actually a positive.

We’re already aware of most of these, but maybe it hasn’t really sunk in just how aware we are of them, especially when we’re playing other games. Here are the four things that make me want to play Guild Wars 2 more every day:

No trinity. I’ll admit to still being a little on the fence about this one, having not experienced it personally. After I run a dungeon, or play a character other than my very versatile Elementalist, I’ll have a better feel for it.

But the next time I sit around for half an hour LFG-ing for a healer or a tank, I’ll wish I was playing Guild Wars 2.

No segregation by servers. In December, I posted on my Facebook that I was going to be playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and asked what server people were on. I got about 20 different answers.

I still like SWTOR, but I’ll be letting my sub run out this month because the people I was playing with on my server have all pretty much moved on and I can’t play with any of my other friends.

The next time I try to coordinate what server everyone will be on in an MMO, I’ll wish I was playing Guild Wars 2.

No level cap blues. You’ve spent days, weeks, or month getting to the level cap, experiencing everything the game world has to offer.

Now, you’ll be doing something completely different and only have a very tiny portion of the world where you can actually do anything relevant to your character and achieve appropriate rewards for it.

And open-world exploration? Sure, if you just want to spend a few hours looking for a title or some other meaningless trifle. If you want to progress, you’ll get in dungeons and you’ll like it!

The next time I’m twiddling my thumbs in a city waiting for my queue to pop, I’ll wish I was playing Guild Wars 2.

No alt-leveling blues. The best time to level a character is almost always when a game is new, or maybe after a new expansion comes out and introduces a new race or class.

Any other time? Lowbie zones are about as barren as… well, the Barrens. And ask World of Warcraft how that’s working out.

The next time I’m solo-leveling a new character while everyone else in my guild is playing their max-level characters, I’ll wish I was playing Guild Wars 2.

mmorpg guild wars 2 mmorpg     The GW2 Evolution

Guild Wars 2 might not revolutionize MMO gameplay, but it will almost certainly revolutionize how MMOs are played. That’s a fine difference. In recent weeks, when I’ve found myself in another MMO and experiencing one of the issues noted above, I’ve thought, “Gee, this wouldn’t be an issue if I was playing Guild Wars 2.”

It happens more than you might think. If you’ve played Guild Wars 2, it’s probably happened to you, too.

If enough people think the same way, it’ll force MMO developers to adapt their games to follow suit. If enough people like how Guild Wars 2 handles servers, the trinity, leveling, etc., then they’ll play Guild Wars 2 instead of other games. Developers will see that and follow suit – at least the smart ones will.

And I haven’t even talked about the payment structure, which all but the most cynical cash shop critic say beats pretty much every other game, hands down.

If any MMO I played – even the most run-of-the-mill, bad-quest-text, tab-targeting, stand-in-place combat, kill-10-rats, raiding-progression game on the planet – incorporated the above points, I’d be about 350% more likely to stick with it. You’d probably feel the same about your favorite MMO.

But hardly any do. They’re complacent, sticking with the “safe” protocols that have existed for a long time and, by and large, worked. Or maybe they just haven’t figured out how to implement something different. Or they haven’t tried.

mmorpg guild wars 2 mmorpg     The GW2 Evolution

What it comes down to is that the above points are indisputably better than the alternatives. You can debate the worthiness of individual mechanics or gameplay paradigms, but those four points are simply better than what most MMOs offer, hands down.

If Guild Wars 2 pulls MMOs into the next decade, it won’t be because of its combat engine or class design. Virtually anyone can create those and do a competent job of it.

It’ll be because ArenaNet realized the underlying problem with MMOs, and it’s not class balance, combat dynamics, or even graphic presentation. Those have progressed as the years have gone on, but too many MMOs are still stuck in a decade-plus-old rut when it comes to the fundamental nature of their games.

Guild Wars 2 is looking to break out of that rut. Even in beta, that’s easy enough to see.

I just wish I was playing it right now.

Jason Winter has held several positions in the tabletop and video-gaming industry since 1996, including writer, editor, marketing coordinator, and game designer. He's the former editor of Beckett Massive Online Gamer and almost considers himself competent in PvP. In addition to his work with Gamebreaker.tv, he also blogs about video games at http://jasonwinter.wordpress.com.
  • http://www.facebook.com/K0oty Samuel Koty Kotula

    “Personal storyline? Seen it, killed a Sith lord, moved on. ”
    D:

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Robert-Woodhouse/720201353 Stephen Robert Woodhouse

    I personally lost all interest in what Jason Winter has to say. He as a reporter should be objective and not clearly lost in the hype.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Sardella/1422784105 John Sardella

      Then you must not have heard, or read a single thing about the article. He says game “mechanics” not the game itself. As well as stating that this isn’t the next generation of MMO. You’re as bad as all the hype junkies, just in the opposite direction.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=506728308 Julian F’n Mugnieco

      is it still hype after two successful betas?

    • http://twitter.com/WadeDMcGinnis Wade D McGinnis

       I think your not going to get away from being excited for something different. I think it will show easily in your writing and most of all, will define what your topics are.

      Jason is showing his enthusiasm and some folks just may not like it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jimmy-Nguyen/704808054 Jimmy Nguyen

      How is it hype when the stuff he’s talking about is in the game? You can play cross realm, there is no trinity, and there is no raiding based endgame. They’re part of the game’s features… He even goes out of his way to post the most common arguments made against the game. I’ll tell you what isn’t objective. Your post.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Milligan/100002897983906 Jason Milligan

      Just like every reporter in normal media is amirite?

  • http://www.thejerseywife.com Jersey Wife

    There are definite attributes about GW2 that keeps it on my “maybe” shelf. After being so hyped for the release of Warhammer (because as a fan of DAoC I loved the RvR system there) and then let down so miserably I’ve been hesitant to get on any hype train no matter what the title is. 

    “Guild Wars 2 takes many things that other MMOs have done well and adopted them. Nobody, not even ArenaNet, disputes this. Every MMO is going to look, in some ways, like other MMOs that came before it. Guild Wars 2 is no different. You’ll play it and, at various points, think “This is just like MMO X!” ”

    That right there is what the MMO community needs to absorb and understand. Copy Pasta is a dish served up by every game out there and the buffet menu isn’t going to change any time soon. I do agree with what you said about GW2 changing the way MMOs are played. Which will certainly annoy those gamers who don’t accept change. 

  • jayremy

    I see GW2 being a good step forward in the social gaming aspect with “social” events. Other than that I don’t see much innovation, all the MMO (grouping and single player) conveniences are given in the game are great WvW and making a big vast artistic world are all great.

    Still though they haven’t really done anything new, seriously, slight better. Better is still… better but I don’t see it

    Whether you want to argue about Tera or TSW as an overall game (I’d like to include Vindcitus for obvious reasons if you have played it) being a great game, they have still brought huge levels of innovation or things back that were “once lost”/

    TSW was in development long before they could’ve known how SWTOR was doing the cinematic leveling, and the TSW scenes are just phenomenal as an experience but don’t ask for a player to deal with them with annoying decisions and spacebar. Return of 3 factions, no level restrictions, no classes and just a huge open space to progress yourself. Not saying this game is great as a whole.

    Vindcitus proved one thing action combat to that level, with some actual good graphics can exist within an MMO format and it as fluid as heck.

    Tera again puts the action combat in their game and they go full on into putting it into an open graphically intensive world. Tera’s open world features that exist now being with politics and so on is a little extra for players to have in their “world”. Nothing will really cure it from its crazy stamina system and bad questing experience, but it does some things right and new.

    If GW2 i’d say is to be truly revolutionary they’d have to have done a bit more, level restrictions still exist in game, if you are too low in open world with huge damage degradation against higher level mobs (same exact system as WoW – try attacking a mod 5+ levels greater than you). Perhaps a lot of melee wont have to worry about targeting as much but to be any where near as under control and efficient you still pretty much have to. The way you avoid damage really isn’t anywhere quite near more action-combat oriented games. I can really say is it plays like WoW but better, mob tagging and trinity system, lack of open world over instances have been complaints by many (directly or indirectly) over the past many years so stuff like that was just natural to go at some time, GW2 is just first to step on it.

    • Jay

       Lol Tera has “huge levels of innovation”? There’s not one thing Tera has done that hasn’t been done before in another game. Now Blade & Soul I think is a better example… It just seems like GW2 has become the game that’s cool to hate. It’s a hipster mentality really, but it’s to be expected. When I look at a new game, I don’t take hype into account, because it clouds my judgement.

      When I first played GW2 I was impressed by the mechanics throughout the entire game… Not just combat, or story, or some other small section. I don’t call GW2 revolutionary, because that term has become cliche in the MMO community, however I will say it’s evolutionary in what it does. Think about how much the game offers, without subscription… That in itself could be considered innovative.

      • jayremy

        Never said Tera has huge levels of innovation it just has some. Tera is rather least innovative of the examples, I know that. You have to consider it for what it is and has. I forgot to mention things Rift did too, more in regards to the launch of their game and classes but I am not going to add in long lists now.

        W/o a subscription doesn’t really impress me either especially when talking about innovation. It still has a large box price, likely an equal deterrent for people to buy games as a subscription-alone game would. F2P games have existed, MMOs even. GW2 being buy to play just does the same thing as F2P games accept with a box price.

        Blade and Soul is much better over Tera(from observation) I agree. Still, it’s not out in the US yet so I will not really use it as example it’s got a ways to go. It would be like me Talking about how innovative TESO will be, (D&D) Neverwinter or “project Copernicus”.

        At least we have got to try the large scale betas and played the rest by now to know what the games are and have.

        • Jay

           I have a long list for GW2 as well, but that’s stuff you can read in the wiki. B&S is in beta the same way GW2 is in beta, even though not as many people in the U.S. have access to it. I am curious how you equate F2P to B2P, seeing as how box sales made ANet millions from GW1. They already proved they can be successful without being unfair to customers… They’ve earned some trust from me based on their track record.

          Just seems like there are a lot more things being done right, and a lot more changes in one single package than in those games you’ve named. Like Jason said in the video, sometimes it isn’t about some gimmick added, sometimes it’s about what they’re willing to remove while still adding to the enjoyment of the game. Every game won’t appeal to everyone, but after playing GW2, I got the same feeling I got from playing EQ, FFXI, and WoW for the first time… Games I ended up really enjoying.

          GW2 just seems to be the game that’s cool to hate on atm… Which is a good sign.

          • jayremy

             WoW would be the MMO that is cool to hate on I am sure people have good reasons and some don’t. GW2 hasn’t done anything to wrong their community or the gaming community as a whole. People that say bad things about it are 1 of three scenarios:
            1- Not impressed
            2- Criticizing it mainly on the things they don’t like about it, whether minor or big.
            3- Raging nerds, typical of any game environment.

            Not everybody should be deemed as #3.

  • Avaloner31

    I am looking forward to the game, but with titles like the one used here it makes me remember other games that the “media” and fans hyped up to ridiculus levels (eg WAR) that seemed perfect before release but left alot of people let down afterwards. Makes me want to break out the proverbail pop corn and watch the potential train wreck that the hype train has set in motion. And NO I don’t want the game to fail. 

    • Jay

       It’s a lil late to call GW2 a train wreck… The “Hype” is from actual gameplay… So at this point it’s no longer “hype” and instead it’s just people’s impressions of the game.

      • Avaloner31

         Yea but not everyone liked the game play or felt it was not as good as the hype made out.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Sardella/1422784105 John Sardella

          That’s not surprising. Not everyone is going to like a game, that is a fact. You need to take what you see into account and go based on your own observations. If you go at a game just because someone says it’s awesome then that’s really your own fault.

        • Jay

           You’ll never please everyone… I think the amount of people who were satisfied or amazed greatly outweighs the negative vocal minority on the internet. I like to be realistic with my expectations, so all I wanted ArenaNet to do was deliver on the things they said would be in the game… They did, so I’m satisfied.

          I don’t put too much weight in what the media or just random people on the internet say… Especially when what they’re saying is based on opinion or speculation.

    • http://twitter.com/Luke_Malcolm Luke Malcolm

      The sad part is that the GW community is amazing and prbly one of the best mmo communities, but than the pple who jump from mmo 2 mmo and start the whole GW2 Vs WoW or TERA talk and than makes the GW community bad. I wish the best to Arena.net and Guild Wars 2, but I have given up on trying to play 2 mmos regards how different they are there still the same in a way and just rather play 7 stick to the game i’ve been with for the last 8 years than after that just quit mmos all together.

  • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON H3L1ON

    Yup now you have done it,
    as soon as Sharuko sees the title he just might explode in fury
    and rant how Tera is supirior

    may god have mercy on our souls

    • http://twitter.com/Luke_Malcolm Luke Malcolm

      Hey thats his opinion, I honestly think TERA is a better game aswell, but thats just my opinion and everyone is entitled to there own impressions & thoughts of a game. Just cause he says he hates a game doesn’t mean he is wrong. 

      • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON H3L1ON

        ppl like diffrent games i agree and there is nothing wrong with that 
        but “spamming” your hate issent somethingi would call a opinion, rather being anoying.

  • http://twitter.com/crusadernero Crusadernero

    GW2 will be a good game, thats pretty much a given at this point from what we have seen and played. It’s not going to be some huge revolution when GW2 comes out though. It’s just another good MMO game coming out that is making the mmo experience better for players.

    Just like with wow, swtor, tera+++ they make the mmo experience better. As a huge gamer myself, I really cant complain about that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/toph1980 Christopher Fischer

      SWTOR made the MMO experience better? I beg to differ. It is not all bad but BW sure dropped the ball, and keep doing so. I’ve never played another MMO where 3 out of the 4 patches during the game’s initial three month run all broke major in-game features and called for a rollback (crafting, Ilum exploit, Ilum nerf etc.)

      Even the 1.2 patch was a total joke. It baffles me how bad BW are at managing their precious MMO.

  • DoctorOverlord

    Very nice article Jason!  You really hit the true innovation of Guild Wars 2 when you say  “too many MMOs are still stuck in a decade-plus-old rut when it comes to the fundamental nature of their games”.     The genre has been in the same rut since its inception with Ultima Online (or Meridian59).   GW2 isn’t changing totally changing the mechanics of MMOs, it’s changing the basic foundations of the genre.

    You did miss one point – XP/loot/resource distribution.    No more kill stealing, everyone shares XP.   No more freaking ninja looting or resource node stealing.   No more stupid Need or Greed loot rolls.   Ever.     

    This is the big one for me. For the first time while playing an MMO I don’t curse when I see someone else appear in an area where I’m doing PvE stuff in GW2.    I still remember playing SWTOR when my character was in a tomb and I started to attack a group of mobs then stopped when I saw someone else was attacking them.   Being polite I backed off as I had before in every other MMO I ever played but that time I was struck how idiotic it was for my character not to help kill these enemies that we both should want dead.   GW2 is actually encouraging people to cooperate rather than pitting players against each other in competition for XP/loot etc.     

    I’ve been following MMOs for years and I never found one that truly kept my interest and I now realize it was because of the points you bring up.  These fundamental flaws of the genre that everyone simply accepted as traditions.    ArenaNet is taking a machete to these flaws and that is something that the MMO genre desperately needs.

    • jason jacobson

      Completely agree. So many times in GW2 have I helped people with killing mobs, and them help me, that never would have occurred in other MMOs. Easily one of the best features of GW2. Can’t wait til release.

    • QSatu

       I agree. people might not like DEs or WvW, or combat. but there are some simple fundamental design decisions which make the game simply better to play. And I fully expect to see other games to change to fit the future expectations of players.

  • http://twitter.com/Crimendorsement Jeffrey Eisenberg

    It absolutely baffles me how people feel they have the RIGHT to determine what is “better”…what is “good” and what is “bad”…when discussing something that at its core is rooted in PREFERENCE.  Games are entertainment.  They are art.  They are media.  It’s not about which is rank 1 and which is rank 2…it’s about simply having fun playing whatever game you wish to play.

    At some point this sensationalism needs to get old and tired.  It simply divides gamers into those who support the sensationalism and those who oppose it.

    Guild Wars 2 will be a fine game.  I don’t think anyone is disputing that.  But it’s simply not the Rosa Parks of the video game world as it is being represented.

    • snikendelarveføtter

      So you think that there are people who prefer sitting in queue waiting to play, instead of getting in instantly and play on an overflow server? That is the kind of changes i think they are talking about here. Not the game itself, but some of the core mechanics that makes everything more conveniant. 

      • http://twitter.com/Crimendorsement Jeffrey Eisenberg

         You win.  Guild Wars 2 is the best game in all of the times.  For everyone.  No one has any right to believe that any other game is enjoyable.  I understand now.  Thank you.

        • snikendelarveføtter

          You misinterpreted my comment 100%. Try again!

    • http://www.facebook.com/toph1980 Christopher Fischer

      You can argue that Piranha Part 2: The Spawning is better than The Goodfather based on PREFERENCE alone, but people will just laugh right in your face. Quality do matter and that is where Guild Wars 2 shines.

      Guild Wars 2 may not be the Rosa Parks of the video game world as it is being represented, but it sure is the closest thing we got. Guild Wars 2 is fun because as the article mentioned, it has broken out of the decade old generic MMO formula and succeeded at doing something new. And heck, is it fun. That is the biggest reason why pretty much a united press and 94% of the player base (based on poll after last beta) loves Guild Wars 2.

      It absolutely baffles me how people don’t see this.

      • http://twitter.com/Crimendorsement Jeffrey Eisenberg

        You win.  Guild Wars 2 is the best game in all of the times.  For everyone.  No one has any right to believe that any other game is enjoyable.  I understand now.  Thank you.

        • Arkanthos

          No you don’t understand at all, the thing that matters is that the game is fun, and if its fun for the majority of people it will succed simple as that, there are people that like the game and people that don’t there is no game that has 100% of ppl liking it and it also wont happen even if it becomes the sole game on the planet. so in gw2 majority of the people had fun because of all the things it did different and and it did them good and that’s the point.

          Fun is what makes the game not endgame not raids not levels or no levels its fun or as we call it excellent entertainment. So no matter what features a game has if it isn’t fun it won’t be played.

    • http://twitter.com/Jayeluu Jason Winter

      Name one one of the four points that I specifically called out and said would be better that you disagree with. I worded it very carefully.

      Give a real response or none at all.

      • http://twitter.com/Crimendorsement Jeffrey Eisenberg

        “Real response”?  Sure.  I’ll do that.  After all…we need to do all we can to sell ad space on the pages, right?  Controversy about what game is better will do that.

        No trinity:   1.  Not everyone is COMPLETELY sold on the fact that the trinity wi not surface as time goes on and players a.  become more sophisticated on how to use the game mechanics and b. become lazier over time allowing roles to formulated by the standard forum griping.  GW2 has an interesting concept of aggro and how players will adapt to it AT LAUNCH…but gamers tend to figure things out to make things easier.  Will AN be able to combat that by re-balancing to keep the trinity out of reach?  2.  The trinity is JUST fine for certain gamers.  This is the preference point I am talking about.  It sucks you didn’t know a healer or a tank and had to rely on a pug.  It does.  But what about the people who DO know tanks and healers and PREFER to execute their role the way they know how?  It’s like GW2 is a flexible organism and “those other horrible games” is a skeleton.  Some PREFER the flexibility and some PREFER the rigidity.  In addition…what about those people who simply like to tank and heal?  It’s their comfort zone of responsibility.  That’s their preference.  It sucks to be a lonely dps.  I get it….not everyone is.  Me…I have almost exclusively played a healer.  that’s fun for me…that’s my preference.

        No segregation by servers.   This, again, is purely preference.  I get that you are a popular guy and have lots of followers and all that.  Your network is larger than someone like mine.  My first MMO was SWG.  It was a VERY server based family.  Everyone knew each other..friends or enemies.  I’ve never let go of that idea. In fact, that server where I came from…all left SWG and went to WoW and all rolled on the same server…then they did the same in AoC…then SWTOR.  The disposal of the “old way” of building a community is good for people who know a select group of people all over the place…but it sacrifices that GENERAL sense of community.  There is no incentive to meet new people.  I know, I know, there will be an instanced area of GW2 that will have 50 people that will be required to achieve a task…but how many of those other 49 will you add to your friends list…or ever even see again?  Some people PREFER to have a “home” they can log into every day.  They may see that neighbor once a day..or once a week..or once a month…but they know that neighbor will always be near their home.

        No level cap blues.   One…TSW doesn’t have levels.  Which game’s non-level system is better?  Really?  We can’t have one person prefer one system and another person prefer the other?  It has to be one is better than the other?  But beyond that, progression can be measured in many, many different ways in these games we play.  Gear progression, stat progression, level progression, achievement progression, “fun” progression.  Different people “depend” on being able to…in some way…measure how their toon is progressing in a game.  For some…a simple number next to their name is fine…even preferred to some nebulous system that is ambiguous and hard to plug into a spreadsheet.  I agree that the glorified lobby-based system that players have allowed themselves to be lulled into is an unfortunate place to be….but that’s really still up to the individual gamer to change that…not the developer.  At some point players need to be able to take the training wheels BACK off and re-learn how to ride their bike through their OWN player-generated content.  Every game has areas to explore..achievement or not.  People simply got lulled into believing it didn’t matter.  It doesn’t TRULY matter any more in GW2 than any other game.  (I knew a dude in SWG that explored every mountain, on every planet, to find the highest elevation.  It took him months.  He didn’t need a dynamic quest to get him to the top of the highest…he just needed himself.  I don’t know anyone that has done that in any other current game…but I’m trying to limit myself to the amount of crazy people I talk to.)

        No alt-leveling blues.  I feel ya.  I’ve almost been a exclusive one toon completionist kinda guy.  I identify with one toon.  But again…so much preference is present here.  What about SWTOR where the very best part of the game is experiencing alts?  I mean…the story behind each class is the driving Force there.   You gonna deny that a Justin Lowe or Larry Everett should have fun playing those story lines?  Would having only 1 TSW toon, from one faction, allow someone to experience the full game…if that was their thing?  In addition, reaching to compare how not having an alt in an age ZERO game to having an alt in an age EIGHT year old game is borderline irresponsible.Listen, I get it.  People are excited about GW2.  They should be.  It looks like a fun game.  But this shit about why this game is better than any other…or ANY other game is better than ANY other game is just lame..at best.  It’s a carnival barker trick selling more tickets.  6 billion people in the world.  We all live this life differently.  We all love differently.  The ones of us that play games all play them differently.  We don’t play the right games or wrong games.  We don’t play the best games or the worst games.  We just play what we prefer, how we prefer.I like you.  I’ve seen you say some great things.  I just absolutely refuse to let you tell me or anyone else that the game you want to play is any better than any game I or anyone else want to play.I hope that was real enough.

        • Josh Smith

          Nerd Rage. U MAD BRO? get over it and stop getting offended bc you cant properly read and or listen to a perfectly good review of pros and cons to a game.

        • Old Ben

          > 1. Not everyone is COMPLETELY sold on the fact that
          > the trinity wi not surface as time goes on

          So if players who really want to play only a specific role (ex., healer) find a way to achieve that, it would be a bad thing…? But later you say that:

          > what about those people who simply like to tank and heal?
          > It’s their comfort zone of responsibility. That’s their preference.  

          So you’re complaining about the fact that it might be possible to play a single role and simultaneously complaining that it might not be possible to play a single role?

          And then you wonder why people say you’re trolling?

          BTW, it’s perfectly possible to play mainly as a healer in GW2. Some classes can have up to 6 healing abilities on their action bars (plus an elite skill which might have a healing component). But you won’t be casting heals non-stop, and your “fillers” are going to be damage abilities. Traditional tanking isn’t really possible given the fact that there are no taunts.

          >  GW2 has an interesting concept of aggro

          Aggro (and creature AI in general) in GW2 is incredibly basic and is very easy to manipulate. It really boils down to “attack whatever is nearest”, so, if you force a creature to walk past a different creature to get to you, they’ll just attack each other. 

          They definitely need smarter enemies that will (for example) stun a character and then leap to a different target, attack whoever has done most damage to them recently, use cover to force ranged players to move closer, etc.. 

          > Some people PREFER to have a “home” they
          > can log into every day. 

          GW2 has a home server, which you log into every day. Not sure what your point is. Just because the game doesn’t charge you money to play your characters on another server doesn’t mean you have to pick a random server each time you play.

          > No level cap blues. One…TSW doesn’t have levels. Which
          > game’s non-level system is better?

          GW2 doesn’t have a “non-level system”. It just doesn’t create a sharp gameplay distinction between “leveling” and “endgame” (unlike WoW, for example). Personally, I’m not a huge fan of having an abstract “level”, but games that don’t have it (like The Secret World or Eve Online) end up having “skill points” that serve the same purpose. Instead of having to be “approximately level X” to survive in a certain zone or use a certain item, you need “approximately X number of skill points”.

          > No alt-leveling blues. […] reaching to compare how not having an
          > alt in an age ZERO game to having an alt in an age EIGHT year
          > old game is borderline irresponsible

          Objectively, the fact that most low-level areas remain “useful” for high-level players ensures that those areas won’t be as empty as they are in games like WoW where level X players have no reason to visit X-5 areas, let alone X-70 areas.

          And the age of a game is irrelevant; what matters is they are both available (or in advanced beta) now, and are aimed at a very similar audience. That makes it perfectly logical to compare them.

        • http://twitter.com/Jayeluu Jason Winter

          1. Go right ahead. Play a healer. Play a healer until the cows come home. Nothing in GW2 stops you from doing that.
          The “no trinity” issue people have with the game is the belief that something is being taken away from them. Just because you don’t *need* a healer or tank or whatever you can’t *play* a healer or tank or whatever. This, as far as I can see, is untrue. Granted, healing/tanking works a little differently in the game, but that’s something you have to learn with any game.
          It sounds like you’re saying that if you’re playing GW2 and a group already has a dedicated healer, you’d rather not join them and instead wait for another group. You apparently want fewer options. How is that better?

          2. It’s great that you’ve managed to keep that same group of people around you for so many years. I’d wager, though, that most people haven’t had that experience.
          In any case, I don’t imagine that guesting will be hugely prevalent — it’s more of a convenience feature than anything else. Most of the time, you’ll be on your home server, and occasionally, when you want to play with someone else, you’ll go to their server. So the vast majority of people you see — and all of them in WvW — will be part of your smaller “community.” This just provides another option when you want something different.

          3. I never said TSW was better or worse. I really like the sound of what they’re doing. TSW, however, is not representative of 99% of all other MMOs out there. You know that the article was aimed at the general MMO conventions as a whole, but you decided to focus on the one game that’s doing it differently. Congrats.
          Going with your specific guy example, What he did is commendable. But you even say you don’t know anyone else who’s explored like he did. Which means that, again, the vast majority of people aren’t interested in that, and MMO manufacturers have to adapt to what people want, rather than hoping an extremely small percentage find that sort of thing entertaining.

          4. The story in SWTOR is entertaining and fun, I’ll agree. But I don’t look forward to having to run Taris quests 8 times, and I’d be surprised if anyone does. Wouldn’t you rather run something different, or at least moderately different, every time you were leveling an alt? I know I would.
          FWIW, I got tired of leveling my alt in Rift, when it was about six months old, so the age of a game is irrelevant.

          I get it. I don’t like people telling me what I’m supposed to like either. I refused to watch “Everybody Loves Raymond” because I felt like it was someone telling me I was supposed to love someone. I didn’t.

          But just look at the empirical evidence — take personal preference out of the equation. There are several things I mentioned at the start of the article that are totally opinion-based. The rest are compared to the situations in the vast majority of MMOs, situations that were lifted from single-player RPGs and adapted to a medium only somewhat well-suited to adopt them or limited by the technical hurdles of the time, which have since been surpassed.

          It’s like saying that a car with AC isn’t better than one without because you’re used to rolling down the windows to cool off. Go right ahead and keep rolling if that’s what you want to do. If you really want to use the AC, it’s there.

          If you only want to play a healer, go ahead.
          If you only want to hang with people on your home world, go ahead.
          If you only want to do fully max-level stuff at max level and not revisit lower-level content, go ahead.
          If you only want to do the same content as you level an alt — well, that’ll be a little tougher with the way dynamic events work.

          For the most part, if you want to, go ahead and play GW2 like you play any other MMO. If you want to do something different, though, the option’s there.

          • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

             just gonna comment on point 3: the title of the article is “four reasons gw2 is better than any mmo”, which means tsw is counted aswell. while i would argue tsw does atleast 2 of ur points better than gw2.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/William-Cooper/819740321 William Cooper

    I don’t agree with many of the points of this. While I do own GW2 played in the last beta and plan to sink many hours into the game. I do not however find the game as great as the hype that was made for it. I had and have no plans for it to replace Wow. People can say what they want but I always have something to do in wow. 
          Lack of  trinity to me is a let down. I tank I like to tank.
         Now that wow is basicly going to be serverless except main cities The barrens comment is null and voided and furthermore into just leveling I prefer to do it solo. 
          And the Lack of Endgame raiding is enough to turn me off from the game as a whole. 
    As I said I will love the game will play the hell out of it when i have time. but it wont be the same love i have for Wow and hate or not i don’t care. 

    • SiderFace

      Why do you think there won’t be endgame raiding?  …because its not called “Raiding”?  lol

      In GW1, you capped your level at about 1/4 progress through the game, and simply built upon your characters skill repertoire.  Almost the entire game was “end game”: in the regard that the enemies and scenarios progressively grew in complexity and stats, while your character did not.  You simply had to get better at the game to advance.  Especially late game dungeons, I imagine will be in the same difficulty category as games like Diablo.
      Either way, I look forward to engaging you on the battlefield   >:-D  I am compelled to believe that my group(s) will be more coordinated and organized than yours by way of judging you through your analysis of the game.  *insert additional nerd-taunt*    :P

    • http://twitter.com/Jayeluu Jason Winter

      Then be a tank. Play a guardian with a shield and be as tanky as you like.

      But no one has to wait at 4/5 in a group for a tank to show up. That’s the point.

      Yes, the WoW news broke last week, while I was still formulating this article. So that one does somewhat provide an exception. But 90% of all other MMOs don’t.

      I never said “no raiding” = “good.” I don’t know what I think of that either. I do know, however, that not sitting around in a city and only having one thing to do is good.

      • Old Ben

        You can’t really “be a tank” in GW2. There are no taunts (which makes sense – taunting is a very artificial mechanic) and in long fights you can’t really stay in melee range all the time (something which I think should be possible – maybe it is at higher levels). 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/LLanowar-Elf/100003731135688 LLanowar Elf

        Jason, how hard is it to understand that some players don’t just want the ability to tank or heal, they want other people to need them to. You can be helpful to a group as a dedicated healer, but it’s not something you *need.* That is a good thing to most people, I agree, but saying it’s “better than” is foolish. Clearly there are people who prefer the old way, and no amount of qualifications (‘but… you can still tank!’) will change the fact that they simply like a mandatory trinity more.

         In regards to games, “better than” is an egotistical term to use, because it is saying your preferences are better than other people’s preferences. As I stated in another post, I would think this is a great article if it was titled “4 Reasons GW2 is an Amazing MMO” and you didn’t try to argue that it’s “better than” others as some kind of empirical fact in the comments. 

    • Old Ben

      What makes you say there is no endgame raiding? You can play the 5-man instanced dungeons at a difficulty level much higher than most WoW “raids”, and there are open-world dungeons and bosses designed for groups of dozens of players. Just check YouTube for videos of the Flame Temple Tombs, Shadow Behemoth, the Shatterer or Tequatl the Sunless.

      If you’re used to WoW it’s no wonder that you prefer to level solo. WoW makes players compete for kills, for loot, for resource nodes, etc.. GW2 doesn’t. Players tend to group up naturally (without even having to form parties), and a group of 3 or 4 players can easily explore areas that would be extremely hard or slow to do solo.

    • Arkanthos

      What hype did you follow? I followed that what Anet hyped and they delivered everything they said so i was happy, if you followed some community bias overhype which had stuff that Anet never promised or just overhyped some stuff to oblivion then thats your own fault not the games one.

  • SiderFace

    You guys sound like me with my friends.

    Its like I’m striving to be perceived as fair and logical, and balanced; seeing pros and cons to each  modern MMO.
    But GW2 is making it hard, cause the things that ARE different, are things that simply enhance GAMEPLAY, but (i suppose) take away from Text.number based “gameplay”. The ACTIONS that the player takes are king in GW2.
    Its like Runes/Masteries in LoL.  Its REALLY hard to say that its a good idea XD  Its NON-gameplay player input :(
    I’ll save that kind of strategy for Poker and Chess, ty.    =D

  • http://twitter.com/Luke_Malcolm Luke Malcolm

    GW2 is a great game, but it was way over hyped and this doesn’t help it, Pple set there expectations to high than are disappointed with the outcome, but good thing I never got attached or I would be very unimpressed.

  • Sharuko

    This stress test I went in with a blank slate and went in with no bias.  I thought I bought the game already, let me give it a fair shot.  I followed Towellie and his friends in WvW with my level 4 Charr Engineer and within 30 minutes I was bored and wanted to log off at around level 7.  I forced myself to play because I was following a big group and struggled to get to level 9  and quit.  We had golems, battering rams and were playing “correct” but actual PvP only took place 5% of the time.  It is shame to compare GW2 to DAoC.

    I love how people list “features” of the game.  Like Jason mentioned “no trinity” “no servers” “level adjustments”.  But when the core fundamentals of the game are flawed those “features” mean nothing.  I can list dozens of features SWTOR brought to the table and what happened?  The combat in GW2 is horrible, I tested this a lot in Battlegrounds and it is bar none horrible.  Class balance is horrible I took my Guardian into Battlegrounds and was unkillable 1v1.  The questing is flawed and depends on zerg groups.

    Taking away healers and tanks is not a “feature” anyway.  In every MMO I played my main has been a healer.  A lot of my friends play tanks solely.  Only in GW2 can a choice be taken out and be called a feature.  I rather wait in queue than not play a healer.  When I want help from my high level friends, I want them to run me through content.  I don’t want them to be down leveled.

    GW2 tries to do a little of everything, which is why it fails at the end of the day.  It tries to do PvP and tries to do PvE but fails and both.  It tries to be action combat and tries to be tab target and fails at both.  It tries to be casual but tries to be challenging and fails at both.  It needs to focus on one thing and strengthen itself there instead of being average in multiple areas.

    I notice a lot of people say GW2 is their side game, not their main game.  GW2 is a side of fries that goes along with a burger.  Many will play it on the side when they are bored of their main game.  I am sure that was NCSoft’s goal all along.  Warhammer online brought changes to the MMO market, so will GW2 but not always for the best.

    • http://twitter.com/Draggingballz Jhon Dou

      ”  In every MMO I played my main has been a healer.  A lot of my friends
      play tanks solely.  Only in GW2 can a choice be taken out and be called a
      feature.  I rather wait in queue than not play a healer.  When I want
      help from my high level friends, I want them to run me through content.
       I don’t want them to be down leveled. ”

      This does not sound like you went in with an open minded.

      • H S

         no one listens to him, just let him pretend, doctors orders.

        • John Michael

          I think it is sad that he wants to be rushed through content. Games shouldn’t be easy like that. That’s why GW1 isn’t fun anymore; it is easy. I actually want to “play” my game, not have someone else do it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawna-Daniels/1135007726 Shawna Daniels

      Seriously, if you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Why you spend so much time obsessing over it is beyond me. You troll on guildcast, then come here to troll some more. Honestly, go play whatever game it is you like, and let the GW2 fans enjoy videos and commentary from the game they like.  

      • Sharuko

        So criticizing a game is “trolling” now?  Can’t take any negative criticisms?  Its funny the GW2 community “trolls” every other MMO that is out there yet can’t take criticisms themselves.  

        I mean I looked at a recent post of yours and you trash SWTOR ” Even the most diehard star wars fan would be hardpressed to truly believe SWTOR is a good MMO. edit: GO GW2!!!!”

        Shocking.

        • Arkanthos

          Frankly i don’t care what you like or don’t like, just don’t make factual errors cuz then you just look silly:) for once WvW is WvW or
          siege pvp, if you don’t like defending and attacking castles than it is not
          your PvP type. if you just want to PvP then you go to Structured thats
          pure PvP.

          Just to make clear: you do not know the meaning of criticism, criticism does not involve factual errors nor bias opinions.

          90% of all the people who played Gw2 like the combat system so its not ”horrible”. If you don’t like the combat sistem then say you don’t like it, don’t say its horrible cuz that is just bias trolling not criticism.

          Its a nice hybrid sistem that most people like so it doesn’t fail (again with your factual error bias and not criticism)

          i won’t comment on class balance cuz its not finished but its certanly not horrible, i took down many guards and also guards took me down if i played badly, so again your personal bias.

          90% of the people love that there is no holy trinity, but you like the trinity that is fine but again this is just your personal bias.

          Conclusion: your post only has bias opinions that no one cares for and non of them is objective criticism, people have already said that they don’t care what you think and if you don’t like the game don’t play it. Yet you are still posting your bias opinions that have factual errors in them on every single gw2 video and falsely defend them with the word ”its just criticism” that is what makes you a troll not a person who offers good criticism sipmle as that.

          Finaly SWTOR is not a better game then Gw2 and also its not vice-versa, i cannot comment on Swtor cuz i have not played it for long as i didn’t like it and this is my bias OPINION not criticism and does not mean that the game is bad, and because i don’t care for Swtor you don’t and won’t see me commenting on any Swtor video with those bias opinions trying to make them false criticism.

          I don’t like the game that’s it, i don’t need to spam that on every Swtor video (which i don’t even watch) because people who like do not care and why should they?

          • RBHgamer

            That was very well said.  I just hope Sharuko can understand it.

          • http://twitter.com/H3L1ON H3L1ON

            he wont unfortunately, he is like a rabid dog 
            as soon as it go’s in a frenzy it wont stop
            been going on for months now

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/LLanowar-Elf/100003731135688 LLanowar Elf

            How is making up statistics ‘very well said.’ I’m not defending Sharuko, but dear god… Arkanthos’s post was filled with straw men, opinions presented as facts, and completely made up statistics.

          • Sharuko

            You bashed me for not have facts then make up stats yourself?  Please source that “90% love there is no trinity”.

            You know 90% of the people didn’t have problems with SWTOR combat during beta.  There was a group of people including me that had a post on their beta forums telling them the combat needs work but the fanboy’s said everything was fine.  Guess what happened?  When it launched and the masses got a hold of the game they realize the combat needs work and fixed it.

            I love siege type PvP that is one of my favorite things in an MMO, but NCSoft’s implementation of it is horrible and akin to Warhammer Online.  At the moment it is a cat  and mouse game where people take a castle and go around to take something else and then a couple of minutes later the tower they took is gone.  That cat and mouse running around in a circle game gets old after a week or so like WAR.  They need to redesign the place because the implementation is horrible and it will be a ghost town on most servers 2 months after launch.

          • Arkanthos

             Siege pvp is just like they implemented it, you cant do siege really otherwise except if you remove gates and walls. and 90% is not based on a fact but on the poll where ppl voted if they liked gw2 or not, and again why mention Swtor? I never said anything about it.

            And also we are not saying everything is fine, there is no perfect game and they can always do better and i believe they will make it even better (1 of the points of the beta duh:P)

            Secondly you were not critical you just trowed around your personal opinionated bias that makes no sense, not criticism.

            There was alot of criticism for gw2 on some mechanics, and they were recived as criticsm from other ppl, you are lashed as a troll because you don’t know how to make a valid criticism so instead you throw your bias as criticism.

    • Jack Pal

      Lol, seriously this game is not meant for you.
      You are too MMO Pro gamer.
      You should continue playing your trinity MMO games and
       let us GW2 noobies l2p GW2 lame game.

    • BabyChooChoo

      …Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?

      • Sharuko

        Here come the personal attacks because I don’t like a game.  Go ahead and tell me  the definition.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Becker/1470011374 Tim Becker

           I’ll do that for him:

          Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results…

          • Sharuko

            That isn’t the “definition” of insanity, that was a quote by Albert Einstein.  He was referencing something else, I am not looking for “results”.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Becker/1470011374 Tim Becker

            ”Insane behavior, or insanity, is characterized by abnormal mental or behavioral patterns.”

            This is just the part of ”insanity” that matches your behavior.
            You allready statet (way too many times) you don’t like the game (which is fine) and still played it again expecting something to change (if you didn’t it was just dumb to play it, because there were no fundamental changes in content/mechanics).

            This is a abnormal pattern, if you dont like playing it you just don’t do it, there is nothing like ”bias” involved in that.
            You can be ”biased” going into a game and still love or hate it, but if you allready knew you didn’t its just dumb to assume that it will change (especially if you don’t like the core mechanics.)

            I didn’t like wow, never touched it again…

            I didn’t like lol, never touched it again…

            If there is a Big update That changes the gameplay/mechanics completely you might go into it without a ”bias” based on the first experiences you made, but not if it is just the exact same build.

    • Fap Masta Wong

      What game did you play cause it wasnt GW2 oh well you will not be missed

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gabriel-Suarez/100000176754219 Gabriel Suarez

    Got to do the BETA for the first time today. I enjoyed it. The combat was smooth and fun. Hopefully they will have more BETAs so I can actually try out the WvWvW. I really loved how the weapon sets determined your abilities so you really have a lot of freedom with builds.

  • serrano786

    Agreed, GW2 isnt doing anything groundbreaking, but they do best what Arenanet does best. Pave their own path. Looking forward to this game and the rest of the betas.

    And for those “its a wow clone” people, get over it. Every game has the same elements or borrows something from some other mmo. The last original mmo idea was probably EVE, but I digress. GW2 will be great because they are going into this game their own way and knowing that sometimes you don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

    As said, I hope that developers in the future understand what the team at Arenanet is doing and strive to be better. In a stale mmo market, GW2 shows what it means to have fun in an mmo again.

    Now if you will excuse me, D3 is launching soon….I must retire!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Caliolo/100003765889295 Robert Caliolo

    Played beta in another game that will not be mentioned and I have to say GW2 is better then that one. That said the other is a very very different style and subject to other peoples likes and dislikes. One will have it’s audience because or the method and style they choose vs GW2 that will have players that like it’s style of game play.
    But I think we can all agree that GW2 is a better game then SWTOR. People will still like SWTOR over GW2 but it does not make either actually the better game. Just one has a better system.

    • http://twitter.com/ByronLumley Byron Lumley

       “But I think we can all agree that GW2 is a better game then SWTOR.
      People will still like SWTOR over GW2 but it does not make either
      actually the better game. Just one has a better system.”

      What you said here is insanity. The pvp in Guildwars is boring. The story doesn’t compare, the ip sucks. So take your “system” that no one has managed to explain to me and shuv it.

      I think story and world is key to a game, the mechanics are less important.

      • Arkanthos

         SWTOR subs deny that:P

        • JJGlyph

          You’re not very bright if you think sales determines which game is better. By your logic Wii Sports and Sims are the best games ever made.

          • Arkanthos

            If you didn’t get it i was following his train, but i don’t play games  i don’t enjoy, people who play wii sports and sims enjoy them and thats what makes them good games for them. Fun games are good games, but not every good game is a fun game.

    • Sharuko

      SWTOR is a better game, GW2 has its advantages like no sub fees and a better engine but other than that SWTOR has the edge here.  Even with the crappy engine at least in Ilum I could PvP.  In GW2 I am fighting doors, walls, gates, wolves and  running 90% of the time.

      • easytoread

        GW2 certainly has the better server architecture. Its built to be flexible.  So many people are talking about Swtors ‘dead’ servers.  That pretty much all goes away when you can guest on a different server.  I think it is those kind of features that Jason is talking about.  Features that make playing a game (no matter what its content) more fun.

      • http://twitter.com/Jayeluu Jason Winter

        I have to say, I’ve had two different experiences in WvW.

        During the last beta, I spent a good deal of time fighting other people.

        Yesterday, during the stress test, it was like you said: Mostly running and fighting walls.

        They could use some improvement in making it easier for people to find/get to battles.

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    No trinity. Dont think it’s necessary.  Havent seen any encounters in GW2 that are that difficult. No real need for corrdination or communications.
     
    No segregation by servers  –  Did you miss WvW. If you want to join a guild for WvW and the realm is full (NOT high pop, outright full), you are SOL.

    No level cap blues – Agreed I started to get the blues at level 13 on my Charr Elementalist in GW2, much eairlier that level cap. Loved playing in WvW. 

    No level cap blues (part 2) – My concern is when you hit level 50, 60, 70 or 80. I’m concerned the higher level zones will be barren, without seeing alot of other players.  While the sidekick system is great playing with lower level players, I suspect it’s going to be a real pain to find fellow players at level 70. This game has alot of levels at launch, maybe good, maybe bad.  Time will tell. 

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    duplcate

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    still posting to the wrong comment

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    Rule number one, only run heroics with guilds. If you dont want to wait, show up with a tank, healer and dps.
    What do you mean by implying only one thing to do in a city. Here’s what I do with my mains in a city.- Socializing my guild and realm. Got to love the guild diva that rides around Org on her bike.- Progression raiding with my guild.- Farm raiding with my guild filled out with PUGs.- Farming mounts and achivements in older raids.  Popular right now the flying mounts from OS 25 (four drakes up).- Playing the AH for gold.  Currently getting ready for MoP. – Playing the AH for pets.- Knocking out a couple of dailies.- Crafting for the AH sales, guild raid runs and character improvements.- Farming the AH for mats or sending out alt for farming.- Arenas, Rated BGs and BGs- Dueling
    Sadily, waiting for world pvp to breakout.  hope rein supreme.

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    I was glad to see Blizz uses that mechanic on mini-bosses in MoP.  You no longer have to wait for respawns or join a group for a mini-boss. Just help and get credit for the kill. Hope Blizz does the same for world bosses.

  • pandora005

    I dont think it is a good idea to DENY players the ability to play a tank or healer if they want to. If people want to just let them … as long as all the combat is doable without them. Its probably going to be easier with a tank and healer, but there will be a tradeoff in lost dps so you trade speed for safety. That is one of the biggest bad points I have with GW2.
    Another thing to improve the game would be to add HARD quests which require you to group up with others and go through dungeons in the process. The end reward should be a special and unique class specific item just like those epic weapons from Everquest. I really liked my snake-head-stick as an enchanter and the head even moved a bit … and that was 12 years ago.
    @twitter-252613822:disqus
    Blizzard CANT implement “helping” on world bosses because those are usually killed for their loot in that loot-centric MMO.

    • dawolv

       1) Allowing tanking and healing in a game will automatically lead to players becoming elitist and falling back into the old scheme of “lf healer, lf tank – dps: gtfo!”

      2) There are hrad quest! I just played with a mate yesterday and we tackled some pretty hard stuff. In Ascalon there was a skill point below the surface, so we jumped into a well at the bottom of which was an veteran ghost mob.. we died 3 times.
      Also with the side-kicking down things don’t get necessarily easier: Let’s say you are 80 and you get kicked down to 24 in an area, mobs around there could potentially be at 26-7, making any encounter with them a group activity.
      As for the rewards, I agree. Not all rewards are really worth it (yet?). I hope that’s just a Beta thing and they balance the item drops at the last stage of the process.

      • pandora005

         1) So what? They want to be idiots then let them. There is no need to raid and farm dungeons and thus the whole grouping issue is a lot more relaxed compared to other MMOs. The way it is now – taking the other perspective but your words – is dps saying “healers and tanks: gtfo; dps … yeah, youre what is left to play with”.
        2) The point about hard quests isnt only that the fights are hard, but rather that you have to MAKE AN EFFORT and that they take LONG. Let me describe one of those epic EQ1 quests (as much as I remember): I had to get 12 items from all over the world and some involved mobs in hard to reach places and other huge raids. Due to the nature of EQ1 there was only 1 of these items per dungeon reset (EQ1 has no instanced dungeons!) and you basically had to “stand in line” until your turn was up. One of my – no drop – pieces was accidentally looted by a wizard who couldnt do anything with that item, so I had to wait for another raid to finally get it.
        GW2 isnt EQ1 and dungeons are instanced, mobs drop loot for everyone and there are no raids, BUT you could have equally huge challenges all around the world:
        – secret places involving jumping puzzles
        – extra bosses in dungeons or a certain order to beat bosses in an explorable mode dungeon
        – drops from a special named commander in the last castle on a WvWvW map from one of your opposing factions (without knowing which faction is the right one)
        – craftable components you have to craft yourself
        Put all of these together and you have a quest which involves EVERYTHING the game has to offer and which people will have to work hard for to complete it in a short time. Just combine those elements with a good story and your quest is done. A “hard” quest involves much much more than just a few hard fights in which you die a lot … which could only be caused by yourself not playing well enough yet.

        • dawolv

           Well, there aren’t any quests ingame, but there will be titles. Really I don’t see the point of having a quest for all of that. If you want to do that, noones stopping you. You don’t need some NPC dude to tell you what to do. Most stuff you described actually exists in the game.
          Jumping puzzles, open word dungeons at the end of jumping puzzles or riddles with a big boss at the end.

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

           didnt read all ur post, but seems u like hard quests where u have to think? u should try tsw

  • http://twitter.com/ByronLumley Byron Lumley

    The media hype around this game is stupid. The pvp is boring, the story doesn’t compare to the likes of swtor, it is far to casual and has no end game. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robbert-de-Wilde/1806039882 Robbert de Wilde

      Indeed the PvP is by far superior and more competitive then any other MMO I’ve played and the story is by far better then any other questing experience in any other MMO, maybe SWTOR but even that becomes super boring at some point. There is loads of end game. Structured PvP, the ongoing WvW to fight for your server. 5 man dungeons that will be super hard and of course 10 player Dynamic Events, not to mention that they can change and drop in new ones on the fly. No it doesn’t have raids. In a game like this, you really don’t need them. It’s overrated.

      • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

         i guess u havnt tried tsw then?

        • Cosian

           I have tried TSW.  And here is the thing … while I give TSW a 9 out of 10 for storyline, immersion factor, voice acting and overall PvE quest experience, the points Jason brings out in his article here we will limit its long term appeal.

          TSW Quest content is still ‘power’ based … you are either appropriate for the content or you are not.  There is no scaling and the content is only challenging for precisely the level you are at.  There is no mechanic for higher level players to come back and roll with lower level players.

          TSW Quest content is very linear … not as bad as some, and in fact some players may prefer the ‘getting lead along the path’ mechanic.  GW2 appears chaotic to new players at first because there is all this stuff happening around you without an understanding of how it all fits together.  But once you figure out that you do not have to do everything or anything in order or at particular time AND that all content remains relevant even if you skip it and come back, one starts to see the positive implications for long term play and can focus on what they want at any particular point in time.

          TSW is going to be a great game for the RPG player that wants strong linear storyline content where everything they do advances the storyline in a linear fashion … much as good single player BIOWARE title would do.

          That said, the TSW combat blows chunks and though they did not have PvP in the BETA, its pretty clear how combat works….. stand in one place and slug it out in typical Holy Trinity manner.

          • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

             quest scaling: yes, it may be only challenging at a certain power stage, but since there is no lvls, u will still b getting the same amout of experience no matter how badass u become. so u can still progress in about the same speed as u would when u werent as badass

            quest content is linear: yes, in the sence that u need to have good enough gear to be able to do harder content, other than that a big NO, its not linear in any way. In the last weekends beta i ran around and did some content that was appropriate for my gear, some that was over me and even some that was way over me with the help of a friend, i could take any quest at any time.
            furthermore, the investigation quests and sabotage quests (green and yellow icons) did shake things up alot if u get tired of smashing zombies or draug, in kingsmouth, and other mobs

            Xept ME or DA doesnt have investigation or sabotage quests. the biggest draw for me is the awesome pvp that the abilitywheel will provide

            yes, the combat is fairly standard for a mmo, which is a good thing. ive played bot AoC and tried tera, combat in those games SUCKED HARD imo.
            also, afaik, the only diff between gw2s and tsws combat is that half of the abilities in tsw is area based vs all of the abilities in gw2 being that?

          • Cosian

             quest scaling … I do not understand what you are trying to say there.  You can call it what you want … there are levels of power in TSW.  My point was once you level, or power if you prefer, out of an area, there is little reason to come back for things you missed as  the content will not be challenging nor will you get a reward.  And most importantly … and make sure you understand this because this is where GW2 blows other MMO’s away ……  If your friend decides to start playing 4 months from now, your only choice is to roll an alt to play with him.  You can’t take your higher level toon back to enjoy the game with him on occasion as you would be simply one-shotting everything whilst effectively dragging him through content.  No so in GW2.

            You are absolutely right on the varied nature of the TSW quests and how some are simply encountered.  I like that as well.  Again, I gave the PvE side of things high marks in this game.

            However, if the biggest draw for you is the awesome ability wheel, just note, that wheel has little or no impact on how the combat … specifically PvP combat ….. will actually play.  The wheel is about creating your build and there is a lot of flex here …. which I also think is very cool.  But that does not change how the combat will actually play.  And yes, this is personal preference on whether you like a more active movement style combat or something more focused on on watching ability cooldowns and making sure you have your rotations right.  That was perhaps the key why I felt the TSW combat was lame, because I found myself watching the ability bar, stacks, and cooldowns instead of the action …. there was no action because there is very little movement compared with something like TERA or GW2.  Sure you have to move out of the fire now and then, but that is the extent of it.  Some will like it and some will not.

          • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

             no, u dont lvl, u dont power, u DONT have a number next to your portrait that says anything about how much dmg/healing/dmg mitigation u do. the only way u progress vertically in tsw is trough gear, so if u want u can just equip sum gear with low stats and it will be as challenging as it was the first time (combat wise).

            2 things; 1: ofc pvp will be affected by the ability wheel? since there is such a huge variety you never know exactly what u will encounter or how u will fare against it.
            2: most of the (if not all of the) consumers, aka the more powerful, attacks are some form of aoe attack, meaning if u move around u will have a big advantage over sum1 that just stands still

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawna-Daniels/1135007726 Shawna Daniels

      I doubt you have a basis for comparison, since all we’ve seen of the story is the first few levels. You have no idea what GW2 endgame is like. So making such statements is a little silly at this point. 
       No game is meant to cater to everyone. If you don’t like it, that’s cool. I imagine most people playing games enjoy the fun and gaming aspect of the game, not the story. That’s why libraries exist.
       

      • jubia

         In a way, the story do feel boring. Take, for example, the fact that, as human, you fight a huge earth elemental and then, next, you fight… ruffians in a pub (at least, if you were raised by common folk and don’t know who your real parents are). It’s a little rollercoaster and that can put people off.

        On the other hand, as you point, using the early levels as reference for the story is kinda moot. Around level 14, the story got really interesting, but that put me off ’cause I was leveling slower than the story requirements (and ArenaNet reckons this is a problem and will work on it).

        I felt this was not the case with Norns, though. The story picked up pretty fast around level 7, if my memory doesn’t fail.

        • Old Ben

          The stories are all pretty horrible. It’s a cross of three problems:

          1. They make you into an “instant hero” right at the start of the game. There’s no feeling of challenge or achievement.

          2. The story feels completely disconnected from the game world (it’s like you’re playing two characters that look the same but have completely different standings in the game world).

          3. The story steps feel like independent mini-missions that often contradict each other, almost as if they were written by different people who didn’t communicate (ex., the “let’s build a super-axe” norn story line).

          The best thing about the personal stories is that you can skip them completely (except the first step, I guess).

  • Bluecewe

    Star Trek Online had the best instanced envrionment I’ve ever experienced.

    Also, I see the sandbox, first person shooting, and action combat playing a key role in the evolution of the massively multiplayer online genre over the next decade.

  • pandora005

    Slightly off topic:
    Why can I DISLIKE the page (I don’t) but not a comment made by someone? Please stop the silly Facebook nonsense of only allowing likes. 

  • Revanhavoc

    Great article Jason, and even though I knew before hand that you are fairly impartial and the definition of the ‘independant’ mind, it’s still nice to see SOMEONE on Gamebreaker bring up a few of the areas for possible let down when it comes to GW2.

    (The last thing Revan needs is another set of impossibly high expectations like with SWTOR – beleive me – it took us months to even come out of the house after that debacle…)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/LLanowar-Elf/100003731135688 LLanowar Elf

      How is saying “GW2 is better than any other MMO and that is an empirical fact” not setting impossibly high expectations? The article has a fair bit of hype in it too, only looking at the positive implications for most of the features. Then you have him defending his argument that it is the objectively the best MMO of all time in the comments.

  • Englisheart

    Got the game and will enjoy WvW, however saying no healers is better than having healers is your opinion…there are still a lot of ppl who want to be a healer,tank or just focus on dps…after the last beta weekend I went and re subbed to WoW so I could heal my sox off :)

    • http://twitter.com/Grulnork Grulnork

      Playing a tank or a healer is fun for the person who wants to play it, but it is at the cost of waitingtimes for all the other players who don’t want those roles.

      You can still role a healer tbh. I PVP-ed on my guardian with fulll defensive and support weapons/utitlityskills and traits. I even had a healbot elite skill (weaponbar turns into 5 insane heal and support skills). A guardian can make your friends almost unkillable.

    • http://twitter.com/Jayeluu Jason Winter

      Once more, for everyone who hasn’t heard it the first 500 times :)

      You can play a full-time healer. Or a tank. Or a DPS. Go ahead. Nobody will stop you.

      But we also don’t need to invite you to our group. Doesn’t mean we won’t, just means that if we have 4/5 and no dedicated healer, we don’t have to wait for you to log on :)

      • Englisheart

        played a “healer” speced Elementalist in the one beta weekend I have taken part in…my holy priest it is not (yes I know it shouldn’t be lol)..which is why I say I will enjoy WvW…..on a more dps focused toon…I am not bashing the game, its just for me the pve in WoW is more appealing

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/LLanowar-Elf/100003731135688 LLanowar Elf

        Sure you can, but they’re not needed. Some people like to feel needed. You can say that’s pathetic or something, cool, but that’s their preference. You absolutely can not say that no trinity is better than a trinity. It may be more enjoyable for most players, but there are always going to be some that won’t enjoy it because they really liked trinities, so it’s not objectively better. Unless you’re looking at it from a utilitarian standpoint, in which case, sure. Still isn’t objective though. 

        Your title and assertions that all your points are “objectively true” just show how completely delusional you are about your game of choice. He’s not saying it’s bad or that most people won’t enjoy it more, just that saying one thing is objectively better than another thing is egotistic and completely false. Your title should be “why GW2 will please more gamers than any other MMO.” I’d be completely fine with that. 

        By the way, I hate the idea of allowing people to play with people on other servers. It’s knocking down one of the fundamental differences between GW1 and GW2 that they talked about originally to justify why GW2 will be a true, full-fledged MMO. For myself, having a persistent server and a limited pool of people to interact with is preferable. I don’t like the idea that people can freely move between servers even if it’s only temporary and there’s still a persistent group of people for WvW. It’s not gamebreaking, but please don’t try and tell me that it being “better” is some empirical fact. Get over yourself. You can call my preferences illogical, strange, or crazy… but that will not change the fact that they are *my* preferences. 

        To drive this point home further, lets look at an age-old debate: the option for fast-travel vs. none at all. There are many people out there who prefer to not have the option. They are a minority, yes, and they’re kinda strange… but the fact that they don’t have to use fast travel does nothing to change the fact that they’d prefer it not to be there. They might not like the idea of others clicking a button to teleport across the map when they had to put in the time to run from A to B. That may seem selfish or petty, but again, it’s THEIR preference. You can say that having both options is empirically just “better” till the cows come home and you won’t ever change the fact that some people enjoy not having a choice more.

        Of course it’s obvious from your personality that you’ll never, ever admit to overreaching with your article so I’m not sure why I bothered. Oh well.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Dahlin/100002251985858 Peter Dahlin

          People can feel needed perfectly fine in GW2. But instead of a set ‘trinity’, the feeling of need has expanded dramatically. With the breakdown of the trinity to its base elements like I had pointed out, more people can feel needed without the specific roles. Not that they can’t concentrate on one of the 3 (control, damage, support), but that it is far more dynamic. Each class is unique in its playstyle, which gives the diversity needed, instead of diversifying along the trinity line. GW2 did NOT ‘remove’ the trinity, but broke it down to its base elements. This, is a good thing. (unless you are really, really stuck up on playing those roles, and no-one else is allowed to do that in your group)

          His title for the article is fine, because he see’s several things, that many players besides himself have taken notice as well, is that there are changes that GW has made that break-off from the old, and they are better for it. Maybe in some people’s opinions this may not be good, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t. People caught on to several of these points after playing the BWE, and see the old systems as ‘flawed’ and ‘why do they do this?’. Maybe you don’t, but that doesn’t mean majority of players have not, and because the majority are seeing these points, the MMO industry WILL have to adapt or they will have more problems. Look at WoW in terms of quality and polish when it came out, it changed the industry. Not that there wasn’t anything truly unique about the game, but they made small improvements that made you question playing other MMOs.

          There is nothing wrong with the guest system. There are several factors for why it is good and why you probably will not have to worry about it much. 

          1. – People will not change around all the freaking time, just trying to find specific DE’s, or alternating servers every few hours. Maybe if they find the population is too high, they might visit another server, but the percentage of people doing this is not very high. There will still develop communities based on the server, so your not left out. Often times, you probably won’t remember most of the people you run into randomly in DE’s even IF they didn’t have the guest system. What you will notice, are those people that stand out from others or to you. It is doubtful, unless they were just guesting for that time, that they will go elsewhere without a valid reason. But that wouldn’t necessarily stop them. Other games have server transfers, GW2 is just more lenient and open about it.

          2. – This removes the problems that segregation installs. You don’t have to worry anymore about having to transfer servers or re-roll entirely, to play with friends that you ended up in the wrong place with. You found out a real-life friend plays the game too, but that you are on other servers. Oh well, either he has to roll an alt or server transfer, up-rooting himself entirely from his previous community with almost no contact, just to talk and discuss with you. With this system, it allows for that flexibility, but there is still enough of a core ‘server’ community, that a system completely combined would do better.

          Also, if you look at trade, a system that spans the servers is better, because it drives prices down, but also increases demand significantly. So long as you sell or buy the stuff you want at a reasonable price, you will sell your stuff FAR faster than in other systems.

          Now, while you may not see these parts of the system as a good thing, majority of players will, and as thus, will force the MMO market to adapt.

          While GW2 does allow for the waypoint system to make travel fast, I see little in how it is a bad thing. Yes, taking the long roads to travel, etc, is kind of fun sometimes, but GW2 also does not include mounts and has the scale-down system. This makes travelling more dangerous as a whole. Additionally, you have to visit each of those waypoints in the first place for it to be of any use. Those people that used to travel the long way, had fast mounts, could by-pass most mobs because they out-leveled them, etc. But because of the scaling down when entering old areas and DEs, instead of just bypassing it to get to your next spot, you can actually feel a sense of danger and adventure in old areas again.

          While that is a preference deal, GW2 is not taking away their preferences in any capacity, but trying to make it so other players HAVE to play to their preferences, takes away from those players that want to get there and be done with it quickly.

          The only negative I see to the whole way-point system, is being able to get out of many tight spots… but then again, people could do those anyways with recalls, just on a longer timer.

          As for over-reaching in his article, or being in-accurate because you believe it is his opinion, would you say the same thing about all news articles? He has experience, data, and other notes of interest that are pointing towards what his article is stating. Maybe he doesn’t discuss where all those points come from, but that wasn’t the point of his article.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/LLanowar-Elf/100003731135688 LLanowar Elf

            See while I agree with the general theme of your post, you’re missing the point. There is a difference between “good” and “better.” You can’t say one game is empirically “better” than another. It’s actually impossible for a game to be “better” than something else based off of empirical evidence, because “better” in this case is rooted in preference. 

            I would have no problem with this article if it didn’t have the title “4 Reasons Why GW2 is BETTER THAN any MMO.” If it was “4 Reasons Why GW2 is an amazing MMO” it would be a good article. You both argued your points well as far as supporting the view that GW2 is a good game, but you failed (as anyone would) in arguing that it is BETTER THAN any other MMO. I wouldn’t have even replied based off the title alone, but after reading the comments and Jason Winter’s elaborations, it was very clear he *actually thinks* his opinion is empirical fact, which is terrible journalism and kind of sad. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Dahlin/100002251985858 Peter Dahlin

            This is the only line from his argument that fits your description of his article: 

            “What it comes down to is that the above points are indisputably better than the alternatives. You can debate the worthiness of individual mechanics or gameplay paradigms, but those four points are simply better than what most MMOs offer, hands down.”

            From what you are saying, he may have changed his title, or something else occurred. If he did change it, the current title looks fine to me.

            An empirical fact would be his experience alone, without scientific method or theory. I can’t say if he has additional evidence to support his views, but one of the points of scientific method is multiple people running the same experiment several times, and see if the same results happen. In something that is entirely opinion based as to whether something is better or not, observation from a large base is required.

            From most of what I have seen, the vast majority of players DO consider the points he made to be BETTER for the MMO market. I personally agree as well, but again, these are opinions, but since majority of those that have played GW2 so far have enjoyed it (90%+ poll… haven’t seen it myself, but heard of it a few times), and these points were discussed multiple times, it doesn’t make him wrong.

            Whether he is right in the end, will have to wait until after release of GW2 and see how the MMO player base react to it. If they react favorably, the MMO market will have to adapt. If they don’t seem to care as much, only smaller portions of the market will change.

      • Dan Winton

         I really think you are missing the point…A healer’s role is to be the person that saves others…without that need true healers will not be interested in GW2…the role they love is not needed..they CAN heal, but you can get along just as well (arguably better) if they just specced hybrid heal/damage instead
        I like GW2, and will play it, however I love being a healer, it is what I play in every game, it is sad to see so many people happily shoving that role into an unnecessary, less than optimized playstyle.

        • Kerithlan

          Just letting you know that in my experiences there was more than one occasion where having a Water Elementalist or “Healer” Guardian around saved my ass during the past few betas for GW2.

          Sure everyone can heal themselves, but only with one skill (which on average have a 25 second cooldown). Having a dedicated healer around is a major stress relief and definitely a positive contributing factor in a party. Not having to rally constantly is definitely saving others, even if it’s not in the traditional black/white dead/alive way you’re used to.

          I cannot stress how much fun being and having healers around was, especially because it allowed us to challenge content that we absolutely weren’t ready to challenge yet (several levels above us). I was level 4 fighting level 12’s because I had a level 4 Water Elementalist with me on my Mesmer.

          Killing the “Trinity” didn’t kill support, guys. You just have more options now.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Dahlin/100002251985858 Peter Dahlin

          Disclaimer: Some of my rant may be influenced by similar discussions here.

          I think you are missing some information on what exactly they have done with the ‘trinity’. The trinity, in GW2, has been converted down to its base elements, which is 3 things: Control (tanks), Damage (DPS), and Support (heals).
          Control – 
          For a classical trinity roll, the roll of a tank wasn’t so much of being able to absorb all of that ridiculous damage, but to control the enemy so he does and goes where you want him to, to concentrate his attention on the target that can best deal with their attacks, etc. In GW2, this has evolved to making sure the opposition is controlled, by knocking the opponent down, blinding, reducing damage/healing, slowing an opponent down, or just absorbing the mobs attacks. I, and I am sure many other, agree that this is a better method of doing it. Just because there isn’t a ‘tank’, or single class ONLY able to perform this action, is not a bad thing. Only those that want to absolutely control everything would say this is bad….. hmmmm.

          Damage – There isn’t much of a difference between DPS and damage, but it isn’t so much of the DPS as it is that you are doing damage. There are hundreds of ways to do damage, without you necessarily doing it yourself. Maybe you create vulnerability (reduce defense) at an offset of lower damage, but because you did this, the damage of everyone else increases significantly. It turns DPS into its base element, which is to do damage.

          Support – This is the big one for you, since you pointed out so much about it. All a healer really is, is a support class, that, again, is boiled down to its basics. In GW2, while every character can heal themselves, that doesn’t mean they will do a fantastic job of it. Instead, it makes your job easier to concentrate on the points you really need to, which is giving the support to the characters that really need it. There are dozens of abilities that give support in various forms. Support, at it’s base, is providing a benefit to another that they did not get themselves. So, instead of playing wack-a-mole to a health bar, you are looking at giving key boons to characters when they need it (repel projectiles for example), saving teammates from utter annihilation (hell, a nice swiftness, cleanse, or other boon could be this), so your feeling of being there for your teammates are still there, just in its base form. All professions can do this in one capacity or another, while some do certain parts of it better than others. Healing, in and of itself, is just one more of the ‘tools’ of a support class.

          Check out this video for a good discussion about this:

    • http://www.facebook.com/Tyroki Sam Taylor

      Then those people should play a Guardian.

      Healers aren’t needed, but some classes can pull it off. So no one will be looking for you, they’ll just be glad you happen to be there when they go from 2k HP and having burned their own heal, to half health without doing anything.Meanwhile, a good way to heal, is dropping a healing turret from engineer and having someone use a whirl move next to it =D

  • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

    no trinity: in TSW you can build hybrid classes aswell.
    no segregation by servers: in TSW beta there was only 1 “server”, not sure about launch, they havnt talked much about it
    no lvl cap blues: TSW have no lvls
    no alt lvling blues: theres is no reason for you to lvl an alt in TSW, since u can learn everything on 1 char.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GUJTORH7OGDER3EEBVFW4LHSTM nang

      I’ve played TSW beta this past weekend. I like the idea of keeping one char and just switching weapons around; no need to make an alt. Also the idea of changing weapons will make your play style totally different.

      Now here are my problems with the game. Keep in mind, that is my opinion:
      1)The combat system is more like WoW, where you can’t dodge attacks. During beta I was strafing around mobs, but I didn’t even have to. I could of that just stood there and use my abilities. Now if you like that type of combat, that’s cool. I understand that most are used to that. But with me, I prefer having the ability to dodge (Tera/GW2). It makes combat more fun and requires even more skill.

      2) questing system. There aren’t any type of dynamic events; the questing system are typical mmo types. Again, if you like this type of questing system, then that’s cool. Personally, I prefer the DE route of GW2. BUT BUT I do love how a lot of the quests in TSW are puzzles; offering little hints and requiring you investigate.

      • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

        1) alot of the attacks for both players and mobs is sum kind of aoe attack, aka u can dodge them

        2) ok u did not play tsw this weekend, if u did u would know that none of the quests u had to turn in to an npc. u turned them all into ur cellphone

        3) if u had attacked that mob u would have gotten credit for it, if it was a special quest mob, otherwise there was plenty more around

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

    let’s see how the future in mmo’s is shaping up:

    Rift adding in 3 faction PVP
    ESO straight up copying the skill bar and skill types(basic attack skills, utility, elite skill)
    ESO straight up copying cross-class skill combos
    ESO doing dynamic events(hopefully like GW2 is a evolution of Rifts)
    many problems you will have playing your mmo, GW2 doesn’t have

    TSW is good, but it is not the only mmo without levels, it doesn’t play differently(not as good as DN, Vindictus, GW2, Tera, C9), their skill system is just taken out of GW1, story setup is like swtor but more annoying, the state of the game in general feels like it is a year form release, instead of a month. the hush hush is for a reason, it is poorly done and unpolished. 

    hell, if you’ve played both GW1 and SWTOR, TSW is been there, done that, but way more buggy.

    oh and by the way, TSW is straight up tank, heal, dps. see how long those “hybrids” last two weeks form launch, everyone will want a pure tank. also, the pvp is not good.

    • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

       tsw is the only AAA mmo w/o lvls.
      skills system taken out of GW1? im gonna guess ur trollin
      story set up like swtor? i guess ur trollin again
      what hush hush? u could publish anything from the weekend beta
      the devs have specifically said that they will design bosses so that u will need hybrids
      the pvp is not good? how the fuck do u know that? pvp wasnt available in the weekend beta

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

        screenshot this everyone. revisit in august.

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

           nice comebk jo

          • http://www.facebook.com/johnny.margott Johnny Margott

            Simon Sunabacka we all get you’re a TSW fanboy, literally every post you’re defending your TSW game, which IMO (IMO) IMOOOOO, it looks like ass with outdated clunky animation and graphics. You should spoon with the company who made it.

          • http://www.facebook.com/marcio.costa.587 Márcio Costa

            after playing the beta can only say that jo is right (except the pvp part which I haven’t played), TSW has levels they just don’t show you the numbers lol you still have to level to unlock stuff like skills, the game looks awful and buggy, their quest’s are plain boring, UI is one of the worst I have ever seen (character screen and inventory are pitiful…).

            PS: there’s no way in hell that there will be something like a boss that needs hybrid classes to beat.

          • http://twitter.com/Biztak Solo Miranda

            LOL you can clearly tell this guy didn’t even play TSW then making assumptions about the game 

          • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

            they dont have lvls, i dont automatiically get better (higher stats/higher chanse to hit harder mobs) after a certain amout of experience, yes u do need experience to unlock skills, but 1 skill isnt neccecarily better than the other.i think it looks good, the only bug i found was that i got stuck once (which still happens after 7 years in wow) and sum ground graphics bugg.
            quests r boring is an opinion, not a fact.
            ui is one of the best ive seen, again opiníon
            well we cant know about bosses until we get to endgame, which is still atleast 2 months away

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/DX4GEZEY5W5AWFXWDWA2BUELKE drew

        PVP was available in the BWE. Just FYI

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

          yes, the fight club, not any pvp zones

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/3JO75BNS43WDETCNCO7F7XS6Q4 jo

        pvp was in TSW beta, and it was bad.

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

           only the fightclub, and i didnt feel it was bad in sum way?

  • RBHgamer

    Love your article, Jason.  It is indeed the things that GW2 doesn’t do that is so innovative.  From the comments I can see that some people who like GW2 have given the impression that those of us who will play GW2 think its the second coming of MMOs. There may be a few who are too zealous in their declarations and defense of this MMO, and I understand how they have brought about a backlash.  Most of us who will play GW2 just wanted a good game that will continue the GW1 story (especially us lore nuts).  That ArenaNet has exceeded my hopes but such a degree really has me excited but it is still just a game.  But a real good one.

    • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

       yes, i do believe that its a good game that alot of ppl will enjoy and it would prob b what i am goin 2 play if it wasnt for tsw
      but as i stated in my comment to the vid, tsw is doin all of the same things as gw2 that jason wrote about and most of them better.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Tyroki Sam Taylor

        Isn’t TSW going to be a sub game?
        See, the great thing about GW2 is, once you’ve bought it, you can play it whenever.

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

          yes it is, i like that, no p2w

  • http://twitter.com/aowen9 Owen°

    Awesome article. You’ve hit the nail on the head. 

    • http://www.androidradar.de/ Leif

      Totally agree, The article is graet and you hit the nail on the head. 

  • Kicknpups

    Great article..The stress testing was so much smoother then the BWE. Didn’t get booted once zero performance lag and I was expecting. The only thing that is starting to bother me is that we haven’t seeing any end game PvE. All the talk seems to be about low end level content.I maxed my BWE toon out to 30 and couldn’t go anywhere past level 25 zones.I understand they want to keep things secret but they have to give us something! Even playing for 5 hours has been better then the Diablo 3 launch which has been nothing but insane errors…12 years to wait for errors! lol

    • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

       havnt been following gw2 but afaik its a pvp game just like 1 was

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PG4DRLIEDYPSF3YKJW6ZW7UVYM aj

         Maybe you should try out following the game then…

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

           nop, not interested enough

          • http://www.facebook.com/Tyroki Sam Taylor

            Then no one needs you around? =)

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/3QVNY4MA4CDT7VJLPOIX6YCBTA Chris

            Maybe if you DID follow GW2, you’d know that it’s not specifically PvP-oriented like the first one. Maybe then you’d be able to pull your head out of your ass.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

             GW1 is PvP oriented? :)
            That is certainly news to me and I’ve been playing that since the second or third BWE.

          • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

             u can make a lvl 20 with good gear and alot of abilities for pvp w/o having a normal char, if that doesnt tell u its pvp focused idk what would

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

            Just because a game supports something well doesn’t mean that is the ONLY thing it can support well. A game does not have to be specialized like that.

          • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

             well noone would argue that wow is anything else than pve focused, yet theres alot of ppl saying the pvp is done well in it

          • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

            oh im sry for saying such an offensive line

          • http://www.facebook.com/vera.oosterhof Vera Oosterhof

             Then dont say shit you know nothing about ^^

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=718951467 Samskyr Davidsson West

        no its pretty much half and half, the pve content is humungousness!

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

          ah okey

      • http://www.facebook.com/ladonna.gregory.7 LaDonna Gregory

        Sorrry, but it’s not a pvp game.. Just because it has pvp doesn’t make it a pvp game.  WoW has pvp is it a pvp game? I think not. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

          xept gw focuses on pvp, wow does not

          • http://twitter.com/megera23 Juliana

             Guild Wars Prophecies focused on PvP. Guild Wars Factions was 50/50, GW Nightfall and Eye of the North were exclusively PvE. Currently the PvP is pretty much dead and the people that continue playing the game are the PvErs.

    • http://twitter.com/Mathew_Reuther Mathew Reuther

      Lucky you. I was lagged to death and ended up logging out when I flat out could not load a personal story instance after multiple tries.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=726598759 Fabian Furger

      Hmm… couldn’t play it because it was during a week day, sadly. I preordered Diablo 3 but couldn’t get it yet… is it really that bad with the errors?

  • http://www.facebook.com/chaz.rpg Chaz Davis

    Jason, what do you mean by 
    No segregation by servers?

    • dawolv

       He means that eventhough you are technically signed to a specific server, you can freely change servers whenever you want.
      The only thing you cannot do is play WvW for another server but your home server. In order to do that, you will need to pay some cash for a transfer.

      So as long as PvP is a non factor, you can play with whomever you like

      • http://www.facebook.com/chaz.rpg Chaz Davis

        If I play this game at all, it will be for PVP, I dont buy into all the hype like most fanbois do, but Im impressed with the game cross server capabilities and I like their lack of subscription model

        • BiG_Weasel

          One-off PVP matches were ho-hum in the beta.  Its CTF, with a little sprinkle of monsters to kill for points.  WvW was where the action is.  Yes, so far, its mostly “zerg” groups running from fort to fort, but I believe that with a little nudge, people will get away from that and it will develop other tactics.  After all, if you “zerg” one place, you’re leaving another wholly undefended.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Becker/1470011374 Tim Becker

             ”Its CTF, with a little sprinkle of monsters to kill for points.”

            What game did you play again…?

          • Geo Draco

             I liked the standard PvP a good deal, actually; it’s no more complicated than it needs to be. I think what you’ll start to see coming out of it as the game progresses is teams starting to build and play more competitively, setting up team combos and strategies.
            You can run around solo and capture points, but run into more than one opponent and you have to turn tail and run. Roaming in duos (at least) seems most effective, and when you start doing that, the next logical step will be optimizing skill combos for maximum effect. I look forward to seeing some well-thought-out team setups in PvP in the future.
            (the same will of course apply to WvW, as guildmates and the like start developing better team setups; you’ll probably see a lot less zerg tactics once people get the hang of combos, allowing them to make much smaller groups and still be effective.)

          • http://twitter.com/AdamCredit Adam Credit

            Yea but those gates take forever to kill even with a zerg. imagine doing it with a small group O.o

          • http://twitter.com/megera23 Juliana

            It’s called siege weapons. Two rams and the gate will be down in no time. You need a group of 5-10 people for that. 2 to use the rams and the rest to watch their backs. :)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PG4DRLIEDYPSF3YKJW6ZW7UVYM aj

    I love the people that are really trumping up TSW’s “no levels” nonsense. Just because they took the numbers away doesn’t mean there aren’t levels…

    • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

       yes, thats exactly what it does

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZU2RDOHVNFLOECANYHHMTXGA2Q tehgunn

        I’ve been playing TSW and I can honestly say that the ‘no level’ system is pretty much a ‘level system’ without telling you your level. I mean, you’re still working up an experience bar to unlock points to put into new abilities which you have to unlock by putting points into the previous ability…That’s about as close to a level based system as you can get. The only difference is that your HP/def/etc doesn’t rise every ‘level’. TSW is a decent enough game but to say that it has completely rid itself of leveling is ridiculous.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Dogbert.666 Dogbert Adams

           someone with a brain I’m pleased.

        • http://twitter.com/Biztak Solo Miranda

          The initial thought of leveling based on other MMOs is a grind. There is a big difference when you are force to reach that certain number you need to attain for you to do the content. It promotes the feeling of pressure, stress, hassle etc. for doing it repetitively. Most of the recent AAA MMOs trained players for 6 to 7 years doing the same thing over and over again(kinda felt bad for them actually). It really becomes a habitual in MMO Space  They log in, grind and rush through the endgame. There is no fun into that!!  

          So the upcoming new mmo are trying to get away with that:

          In TSW, there is some scale of skill/item progression but they did a great job of making the experience fun from the very beginning you play the game. Stories, settings and variation of questing are some of the factors that plays into it. You don’t feel like you are grinding at all.

          GW2, they emphasizing tight-knit group within the server. Thanks to the challenging quests, dynamics events and World PVP.  

        • http://www.facebook.com/simppi90 Simon Sunabacka

          lvl is getting a higher chanse to hit mobs that have a higher number, aka tsw does not have lvls in my eyes

  • http://twitter.com/Mathew_Reuther Mathew Reuther

    I don’t think that you’re correct in making the statement that everything ANet is doing is inherently better. The major roles people have been very happy to play for a long time are not present in GW2. You can be joyous that you do not have to wait for a healer, sure. But the people who truly enjoy the supportive “save the day” gameplay that healing can offer when done well in an MMO are SOL in GW2.

    I am eagerly awaiting GW2. I hope to play it for a long time. However in the case of the trinity at the very least, I think you’re off-base to make the assumption that moving away from it is a good thing. Look at Rift where half of the characters in the game (mage and cleric) can heal . . . doesn’t seem to be a big problem getting healers there . . . no real hassle getting tanks when three quarters of the characters (cleric, thief and warrior) can tank.

    Making everyone roughly a damage dealer with some tricks isn’t the answer for all MMOs from now to eternity. I have no doubt some will emulate GW2. But there will be others that (rightfully) retain the trinity.

    • BiG_Weasel

      Unfortunately, you aren’t completely correct, either.  Most classes can multi-task.  I played an engineer in the last/first beta weekend, and was able to heal and DPS.  Switch my weapons, skills change- same with most other classes.  While they’re not as black and white as the “trinity”, anyone can take just about any role they choose. 

      • Geo Draco

         likewise,

    • Christine Watson

       You can specialize in support roles in GW2 (thru traits, gear, and utility skill slots), if that’s your thing. Doing so will not ruin your ability to do anything else, however.

    • ControlBlue

      Yeaaaahh, of course there is no problem finding healers when half the classes can fit the role like in RIft, except that even in Rift close to nobody want to heal because of the huge burden and responsibility it is.

      And although you only need 2 tanks like in WoW, there too nobody want to do it as the responsibility is much worse and you have no way to “compete”, carrying the group all by yourself while the dps have their silly competition of “who hits harder”.

      The trinity is a dividing, —unfair— to tanks and healers, outdated concept, the sooner we realize it, the better we will be.

      Also LF sucks, big time!

    • Kerithlan

      It is my experience that, playing as a Ranger, I was able to effectively support my party with minimal offense. I had similar experiences as a Mesmer and as a Warrior.

      Breaking the “Trinity” didn’t break support classes. It just made every class a support class if desired.

      When you go to play Guild Wars 2, if you’re looking to play a support role you no longer have to choose between two or three archetypes that *only* support, but instead choose which archetype you actually enjoy playing the most.

      In Guild Wars if I played a Monk I was shoehorned into one of three roles with very little variation. If I played a Ritualist I had more options but still ultimately was shoehorned into one of four roles. I had no option to expand beyond those efficiently, even with secondary flexibilities.

      In Guild Wars 2, if I’m in the mood to play support my Warrior can do that. Let that sink in. I can efficiently play my Warrior as party support. If I get bored of that I can swap over to an old fashioned Greatsword and kick faces in like a stereotypical Warrior would.

      Can you name any other game on the planet that allows *Warriors* to play a support role just as well as any other supporting character can? Sure you might be able to off-tank and sure you might be able to control the field, but name one game in which having a Warrior not focusing on tanking or DPS is a benefit to your party. You won’t be able to.

      Players that love the support role now have the option to play the character they want to play rather than play the character that fills the stats sheet “correctly”. The “Trinity” dying absolutely makes the game better for anyone playing a support role in other games — you’re not limited anymore, you can be anything you want to be and still be good at support.

      Have you had an opportunity to play Guild Wars 2 yet? It doesn’t sound like you have. I really, strongly, whole-heartedly recommend it. Get yourself into a beta weekend event however you can — it’s an absolutely worthwhile experience.

      • http://twitter.com/Farondin Lilarcor Farondin

        Exactly my point. I have little time, so I have to play casually. And in mmos i like heavy armor melee classes. To this day this question has always kept me back: “What will I do with a tank at level cap?” Because even though I like tanking alot, I cannot play much to learn about every dungeon and every boss to safe guard my party. 

        But with GW2, at last, I don’t care about tanking at level cap, I will play my toon however I want!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

       That is probably the biggest mistake people keep making with the ‘no trinity’ thing. It’s not that the roles don’t exist it’s just that you don’t need a specific class to play that role. There is even a healer option for Warrior! How many games have that? :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Buth/1660112274 Nathan Buth

       I’m with you on that.  I did not play Rift for too long but can definitely say it has one of the best class systems ever created.  I think what GW2 is an attempt to do what Rift did, but from reading about it I don’t like it.  It is not that I don’t like change I just think that you should always have certain classes play certain roles.  If you want to make them all be able to DPS that is great and a good thing because it makes going solo a lot easier for somebody like a a healer but still have it where if you want to be a healer you will be one of these classes.  I like the previous version of GW’s class system more than that of GW I think.  Where you chose a primary class and a secondary class.  Gave you more versatility but still kept the system up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/MaxsLexandre Max Lexandre

    I do also agree with some points there that are not that 
    revolution that ArenaNet promissed for GW2, it’s fine but that points need some work, from Dynamic Events to Personal Story.

    • Arkanthos

       You probably misread their promises and overhyped yourself to much:)

  • http://www.facebook.com/Dogbert.666 Dogbert Adams

     it is. not that it deserves one…

  • http://twitter.com/Thaguf Thaguf

    On GW2 Facebook page they linked to this page which is probably why the site was broke earlier lol….

  • groovieknave

    I don’t think the dynamic events are anything like Rift… I mean Rift is a rift… kill monsters and close a rift. Yayyy. Unless they changed some things up since release. I found dynamic events really cool, but not much different than questing other than you aren’t selfishly questing… and there are no qeust givers. But being able to explore the world and find events, find skill points, find lots of cool interesting little places… I don’t see how that isn’t making things better than other MMOs. I for one had a HUGE blast, I was never bored, had a great time exploring, enjoyed as many events as I could get to… was definitely not like Rift… maybe more like Warhammer I suppose. However there was more to do than just killing things, and it was much more friendly and less competitive. Also, combat seems a lot different to me… dodging, switching weapons and learning different skills with each one seems a lot more interesting than other games. Maybe not ground breaking, but definitely different. Also it just looks really cool, I only got to level 6 and I felt amazing playing a thief, stealing abilities, vanishing, and that was just with two daggers.

    Let’s not forget that there won’t be any running back and forth to quests givers full time… I found that sooo refreshing, just being able to go after events and waypoints and skills was so much fun I honestly can’t believe it. You can follow a storyline, you can do events, you can explore… just exploring the city was amazing. So much going on, and looks so alive.

    Anybody who thinks they shouldn’t try this game is pretty crazy… I was skeptical, since every other MMO has been a huge disappointment. But GW2 is really really good… really fun. I don’t know how else to say it. You’d regret it if you didn’t play it.

    Just to clarify, the kind of events I did ranged from, plugging leaks, feeding cows, killing mobs, reviving npcs or other players, collecting things, destroying things, defending npcs, escorting npcs, various little things that are much like your usual questing… you just don’t have to go back to an NPC to turn it in. You get xp and complete events just by being there and at least doing something. Also it’s not just 1 thing for each event it’s several things in every area that you can do to contribute to event success. Also there is a lot going on instead of just wandering mobs… It’s definitely more fun. I mean if you compare that to WoW, you collect quests from quest givers, rung to find the field of aimlessly roaming npcs in an inactive area where no one is, have absolutely no worry or challenge, complete the quest then go turn it in redundantly. Well, GW2 is a lot more challenging and you really have to worry about your health and what you’re doing.

    Hope that helps.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rodriguezcorreamiguel Miguel Rodriguez

    Cant wait for GW2

  • http://www.facebook.com/pfjarschel Paulo Felipe Jarschel

    “Renown hearts and dynamic events are just gussied-up “kill 10 rats” quests.”
    A little, but a lot more entertaining.

    “Combat isn’t that interesting. Tab-targeting FTL.”
    The variety of weapon-based skills and combinations makes it at least more interesting than WoW-like games.

    “World versus world boils down to zerg versus zerg.”
    This makes no sense. There is a lot of people fighting, and a lot of times you’ll do basically nothing in the middle of the mess, but I never liked PvP anyway.

    “Dynamic events just copy Warhammer Online/Rift.”
    No. They’re a lot more diverse and appealing.

    “Personal storyline? Seen it, killed a Sith lord, moved on.”
     And you pay $15 everymonth for that.

  • ikeblade

    This article forgot the most important thing:
    When you’re playing another MMO and double tap to dodge roll but can’t, you’ll be wishing you were playing Guild Wars 2.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Dogbert.666 Dogbert Adams

     If you haven’t played the game yet ask a friend to let you play in one of the future BWE. (if he isn’t addicted already and lets you play that is)

  • http://www.facebook.com/ladonna.gregory.7 LaDonna Gregory

    Then what the hell are you doing here? Get out! Stop talking smack.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ladonna.gregory.7 LaDonna Gregory

    Whatever.. Have no interest in TSW. Don’t even like the era it’s placed in. I can tell by looking at it I won’t like it. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aaron-Thomas-Haskins/100001908300937 Aaron Thomas Haskins

    The Bears the Bears! 

  • Gussy2000

    I wish I were playing it too; the Server Stress Test was an awful tease.  I now play GW1 they same way a smoker fervently chews gum because a cigarette is not available.  Eh, bad analogy unless GW2 is a nicotine free, smokeless, non-cancer causing type of cigarette.  I am really excited about seeing and finally (after SO LONG) playing the final version of this game.  On a side note, Divinity’s Reach is so huge it got me thinking what it will be like to explore Rata Sum.

  • http://twitter.com/nemui_89 Nemui

    tab-targeting combat ? kinda.. kinda not. because if you target an enemy and there’s another enemy before it, most skills will hit the first enemy in its wake. thus, i’m not sure if it qualifies as tab-targetting combat.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

       With the Piercing Arrows trait a Ranger can hit both by shooting through the first one. :)

  • Goryen

    Ok, so tell me ppl. 
    What is the reason to play GW2?
    Before I’ll start explaining what i mean, I would like to inform you, that I’m a WoW veteran (4 years), EvE Online veteran, before that Baldur’s Gate (old, great RPG) huge fan of the series, currently playing RIFT, while waiting for GW2.I’ve also played Warhammer Online, Tabula Rasa (R.I.P), Age of Conan, LOTR etc.Ok, lets start:1. PVE aspect.So main two PvE things in this game will be Instances and Zone Events.I would like to know, what will I gain by doing them?As far as I understood I won’t be gaining levels.If I will get better gear and I will be unlocking some new skills/roles it will have sense to play this game from PVE aspect viewI don’t give crap about achivments.I also hope that hmm “endgame contest” for experience players will be hard and complicated. I would like to wipe like 10 times before i will reach stage 2 of some endgame bosses fights.That is what kept me alive in WoW. Hard boss fights with different tactics that ppl needed to study before the fight.So I hope GW2 will give me a lot of reasons to play PVE and I will feel that my character is gaining a lot of power by finishing it.Afcorse that was PvE, but also i was playing a lot of PVP. (Field Marshal title in WoW)2. PVP aspect:That worries me very much. No open PVP in the World. Why? Why? Why?Is it so hard to make dedicated servers for players like in other MMOs?PVE Servers and RPPVP servers for those ppl who don’t care about saftly while picking mushrooms in woods. :)When WoW came out I was charm by the fact that while riding on my mount on the forrest road I need to be focused and alert, because you never know what lurks behind next turn. :)That is the essence of RPG and MMO.And they just destroy it.Well, I understand that if every PVP players will have same gear and level, developers would need to create another aspect of open PVP in the GW2 World. But not having it sucksanyway. It kills MMO spirit, because it will not allow me to do whatever i want. I won’t be able to kill another players when i will meet him, and if hef for exemple offend me.;)And i belive it should be fundamental for every MMO to create feeling/engine allowing players to do anything they want. To be bad or good, to act like a knight or bandit.That is why i recently like RIFT, and zone events there (now its very complex and diverse).While the zone events take place, players from both factions can cooperate to kill evil forces or can try to disturb others and make it even more harder to complete.So i think not having open PVP is step back not foward in MMO game industry, and some players won’t move from their MMO to GW@facebook-1372194591:disqus  because of that.Second thing – if all players will have same gear and level while fighting one another on BGs or Server Wars, what will be the reason to do it?How it can be fun for a long run, if it won’t give me anything in reward, but ONLY fun and maybe some leadboard glory.Why i enjoyed BGs, Arenas in WoW/Rift? Because i was earning honor/valor/titles to become better geared character. I had a reason to play PVP, not to just kill players for FUN.Players needs reason to do different stuff in MMO – reasons in form of reward and by that to be more close to end goal (set of best gear, PVP title, fame etc). Every player have a goal, from level 1 to cap and then gearing up is the main goal (PVE/PVP) + killing all bosses in PVE (and getting gear) + getting best gear in PVP and highest titles + team ranks (arenas)I belive most of the MMO players/fans play those kind of games to make their game characters more stronger, better and indestructible, and if GW2 will take away from me those things, and will give me at the start character that is max geared, max level and ready for all kind of PVP’s, I will ask myslelf what is the reason to play it?What is reward system for it?Fun is only good for some time, but players aslo need to have end goal in every aspect of the game.And feeling that every hour the spend in game bring them closer to achive their FINAL DESTINATION and GOAL, and by that – “finishing the game”.Afcorse it is almost impossible fo completly finish MMO. :)Sorry for my english.Regards from Poland.

    • Matthew Simoneau

      Why would you want to “finish the game” in an MMO in the first place? It’s not a single player campaign meant to be played through in a set way.

      Also, there is a campaign for every character, so you technically have an endgame.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1162560139 Brendan Hoyt

       You asked how something can be fun when you get “ONLY fun” from it. I think the problem is the whole way you are looking at the situation, and I don’t think there is much I can say besides pointing that absurdity out.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ryan.miller.7399786 Ryan Miller

      1. You do get experience for DE’s and Heart Quests. You get comparible experience to your real level even though you are sidekicked down to the areas level. (Items as well that you receive will be your level.) You also get karma, a currency used to buy items, as well as basic currency.
      2. Open world pvp is WvWvW. There are 3 servers competing for the same castles etc. Is always someone to fight in WvWvW. And the servers rotate every 2 weeks based on how well your server is doing. ie; puts you against servers comparable to yours in success/failures in WvWvW. Competative pvp is also ongoing, meaning once you que, you never drop out of it. You will continue to be placed in another battleground immediately after yours ends. Downside, if someone leaves, you can end up outnumbered until another joins. It will auto-balance if it can (2 vs 1 can’t auto balance, 3 vs 1 will though). I’ve been playing MMO’s for the last 12 years, and in no MMO can I remember where open world pvp was successful. That’s the reason for it not being part of the pve aspect of the game.

      Players START with the same gear on their pvp character, but those that pvp more can purchase better gear. I believe I saw gear vendors up through PvP rank 8. You can start level 80 pvp at level 2 if you wish, by using your pvp character. But your WvWvW character will only have the abilities/ability slots accessable on your pve character. (ie; you don’t unlock your 5-10-20-30 level slots, you won’t have them in WvWvW but you will still be level 80)

      Another benefit, is if you are level 75 and your friend just starts playing, you can go to starter zone, it will de-level you and your equipment automatically to his/her level so you can play with them without ruining the challenge. While doing this, you still receive experience comparible to a level 75, while your friend gets experience comparable to their level. The same goes for items, yours will be level 75, his/hers will be level 2.

      • Jay

         Thank you, I really didn’t feel like responding to his wall of misinformation. ;)

    • Kerithlan

      Hello, this is you: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Munchkin

      You don’t play MMORPGs to “win” and there isn’t one way to have fun. I personally don’t need to constantly “upgrade” my gear in order to have fun — I actually find it to be horrendously tedious and nothing more than a time sink. Gear-based systems aren’t anything more than thinly veiled calculator programs that take an unreasonable amount of time to calculate.

      The “Essence of RPG” is not sitting there and being alert and on edge everywhere you go for fear of being jumped. That’s a social aspect of faction-based, competitive multiplayer gaming, sure, but it’s *not* an aspect of RPG. In an RPG you’re almost unanimously cooperating with other players to accomplish tasks, and you only attack or brawl with your peers if a legitimate problem comes up… during the course of your role-playing.

      You’ve got a long list of MMORPGs under your belt (nearly equivalent to my own list, but missing many key titles (and lacking tabletop entirely)), but all that tells me is that you’ve experienced a game. You never actually played a game the way it was meant to be played from the sound of your post.

      I’m not saying that there’s a right way to play games, but rather that you’ve chosen the only wrong way. There really is only one way to play a game incorrectly, and that’s to assume that you always need to win, or that there’s some sort of way to “finish the game” or “win the game”. You don’t “win” in RPGs. You complete the challenges presented to your character. There’s a fine difference to be understood between the two — you seemingly haven’t.

      It’s supposed to be about the story and how your character fits into the world, not winning. You might be the best player in the game and might have every title, achievement and piece of legendary gear available to you, but you haven’t won. You haven’t “finished the game”. You’ve just completed a series of goals you’ve set out for yourself and overcome a number of challenges on behalf of your character. Expand your view a little bit and you’ll probably enjoy games a lot more.

      That’s what Guild Wars 2 is attempting to do: expand people’s views and help them re-learn what it’s like to enjoy *playing a character* and *playing games*, not just having an avatar with numbers hung around it. That’s why you should play Guild Wars 2: It’ll teach you how to put your experience to work and actually *play* the game, rather than just experiencing it.

    • James Rylett

      You seem to be overlooking some of the crucial facts about Guild Wars 2, as far as world wide PvP goes… What i find makes Gw2 different, and by far better than other MMO’s is that they’ve really taken to the history of guild wars, they haven’t just cracked open a volcano and said “Oh no, there was a dragon here all along, now its destroying the world!” .. Guild Wars have built a in-depth history of the game, since before it was released, and within this history it rules out world pvp .. the whole story in Gw2 is that the elder dragons have awoken, and FINALLY the 5 races realize, they have to stand together if they want any hope of surviving.. “an enemy of my enemy” and all.. if they were still senselessly killing each other in the streets, they’d have no chance of killing the elder dragons.. 

      As far as the PvE aspect, the main lure for instances in my opinion is the was they are dynamic… Suuure, after a few years, you’ve probably done everything more than once but Gw2 have at least put other alternatives in there to keep it a little more.. “new” not only does each instance have multiple variations of the encounters but there’s even dynamic events in there! how can that not be a fantastic addition, when you’re scratching your head, and gritting your teeth because the boss your fighting is proving difficult, an event kick off and from no where centaurs (for example) are storming in and wrecking up the joint?! And from playing WoW myself, i cant understand where you are coming from with difficult boss fights, the original WoW, back when it was good, was difficult yes! but after the burning crusade hit home, and they started shrinking raid sizes, it just got easier and easier.. felt like the game was aimed at 12year olds, as apposed to mature players, which also took a hit on the social side of the game (not being evaluated so shall skip that) 

      All in all, i personally think you’ve taken a heavy misunderstanding to Guild Wars, and are overlooking what its actually about and therefore not realizing just how good it is! This is the way MMO’s should have been made, long ago.. its about time someone had the brains to step back and not follow the trend WoW set in stone, all those years ago.

  • Goryen

    Ok, so tell me ppl. What is the reason to play GW2?
    Before I’ll start explaining what i mean, I would like to inform you, that I’m a WoW veteran (4 years), EvE Online veteran, before that Baldur’s Gate (old, great RPG) huge fan of the series, currently playing RIFT, while waiting for GW2.I’ve also played Warhammer Online, Tabula Rasa (R.I.P), Age of Conan, LOTR etc.Ok, lets start:1. PVE aspect.So main two PvE things in this game will be Instances and Zone Events.I would like to know, what will I gain by doing them?As far as I understood I won’t be gaining levels.If I will get better gear and I will be unlocking some new skills/roles it will have sense to play this game from PVE aspect viewI don’t give crap about achivments.I also hope that hmm “endgame contest” for experience players will be hard and complicated. I would like to wipe like 10 times before i will reach stage 2 of some endgame bosses fights.That is what kept me alive in WoW. Hard boss fights with different tactics that ppl needed to study before the fight.So I hope GW2 will give me a lot of reasons to play PVE and I will feel that my character is gaining a lot of power by finishing it.Afcorse that was PvE, but also i was playing a lot of PVP. (Field Marshal title in WoW)2. PVP aspect:That worries me very much. No open PVP in the World. Why? Why? Why?Is it so hard to make dedicated servers for players like in other MMOs?PVE Servers and RPPVP servers for those ppl who don’t care about saftly while picking mushrooms in woods. :)When WoW came out I was charm by the fact that while riding on my mount on the forrest road I need to be focused and alert, because you never know what lurks behind next turn. :)That is the essence of RPG and MMO.And they just destroy it.Well, I understand that if every PVP players will have same gear and level, developers would need to create another aspect of open PVP in the GW2 World. But not having it sucksanyway. It kills MMO spirit, because it will not allow me to do whatever i want. I won’t be able to kill another players when i will meet him, and if hef for exemple offend me.;)And i belive it should be fundamental for every MMO to create feeling/engine allowing players to do anything they want. To be bad or good, to act like a knight or bandit.That is why i recently like RIFT, and zone events there (now its very complex and diverse).While the zone events take place, players from both factions can cooperate to kill evil forces or can try to disturb others and make it even more harder to complete.So i think not having open PVP is step back not foward in MMO game industry, and some players won’t move from their MMO to GW  because of that.Second thing – if all players will have same gear and level while fighting one another on BGs or Server Wars, what will be the reason to do it?How it can be fun for a long run, if it won’t give me anything in reward, but ONLY fun and maybe some leadboard glory.Why i enjoyed BGs, Arenas in WoW/Rift? Because i was earning honor/valor/titles to become better geared character. I had a reason to play PVP, not to just kill players for FUN.Players needs reason to do different stuff in MMO – reasons in form of reward and by that to be more close to end goal (set of best gear, PVP title, fame etc). Every player have a goal, from level 1 to cap and then gearing up is the main goal (PVE/PVP) + killing all bosses in PVE (and getting gear) + getting best gear in PVP and highest titles + team ranks (arenas)I belive most of the MMO players/fans play those kind of games to make their game characters more stronger, better and indestructible, and if GW2 will take away from me those things, and will give me at the start character that is max geared, max level and ready for all kind of PVP’s, I will ask myslelf what is the reason to play it?What is reward system for it?Fun is only good for some time, but players aslo need to have end goal in every aspect of the game.And feeling that every hour the spend in game bring them closer to achive their FINAL DESTINATION and GOAL, and by that – “finishing the game”.Afcorse it is almost impossible fo completly finish MMO. :)Sorry for my english.Regards from Poland.

  • epeegarde

    The next time I’m taking arrows to both knees, I’ll wish I was playing Guild Wars 2[meme in the making]

  • http://www.facebook.com/kevin.richter.7503 Kevin Richter

    The next time someone ninjas my crafting node, I’ll wish I was playing Guild Wars 2!

  • Game Hive

    This Feature is clearly just trying to exploit the title, all bad things are over-dumbified to a pulp without taking into account that GW2 and improved a lot upon them and the rest of the feature is only good things.

    1- Quests now give you choice in how to achieve them, you don’t need to “kill 10 rat” if you don’t want to there are other ways of handling the rat problem.
    2- targeting and combat systems are different things and the combat does not depend completely on the targeting as skills hit who ever they touch.
    3- WvW are very reliant on siege weapons, 1 player with a siege weapon on top of a wall can hold the gate vs 100 guys if they just mindless they attack without a Trebuchet to counter it. So i would have to say the game is Siege weapons versus Siege weapons.
    4- Heart quests are similar yet improved versions of the warhammer quests, but they are not dynamic events. Dynamic quest happen around the map(mostly after lvl 15+ areas) who depend on the completion(or not) of other quests.
    5- Here i can’t talk about it because i didn’t play SWTOR. Did you had to kill the Sith lord or did you had the choice to let him live since you can kick his ass again? Because in GW2 you make some hard choices like “saving a town or letting your best friend die”, its not that linear.

    The game is not perfect, there are flaws like important NPCs who are not memorable enough or they don’t make you care about them before they place their fate in your hands, and there are always more ways a game can be improved upon, no game is perfect… but GW2 will be the best thing in the market for many years to come.

  • Drephrepherpderp

    Thing is… That guild wars two combat engine Is not really good. For
    example, you can only roll once or twice in a turn, and you cant even
    hit while in air, ranged weapon got auto hit and it is very clunky with
    the unfriendly camera mode and buttons. It reminds me too much of the
    wow combat system, but what I seek is more intrigued combat such as the
    New action mmropgs. It doesnt have to be unrealistic, but the GW2
    fighting is not really logic as well. You can’t even block an attack in
    many cases, only evade. Here was a critical text about GW2!

  • Drephrepherpderp

    Thing is… That guild wars two combat engine Is not really good. For
    example, you can only roll once or twice in a turn, and you cant even
    hit while in air, ranged weapon got auto hit and it is very clunky with
    the unfriendly camera mode and buttons. It reminds me too much of the
    wow combat system, but what I seek is more intrigued combat such as the
    New action mmropgs. It doesnt have to be unrealistic, but the GW2
    fighting is not really logic as well. You can’t even block an attack in
    many cases, only evade. Here was a critical text about GW2!

    • Spammerbam

      “you can only roll once or twice in a turn”
       – imagine everyone rolling all over the place, dodging every single attack. There is no tactical strategy to that.

      “you cant even hit while in air”
      – Yes, you can. I’ve jumped around shooting fireballs and swinging my sword all over the place.

      ” You can’t even block an attack in many cases”
      – Equip a shield. You will have blocking and reflecting skills.

      “It reminds me too much of the wow combat system, but what I seek is more intrigued combat such as the New action mmropgs.”
      – You clearly have the wrong idea of GW2 skills-combat system. Newcomers will overlook its complexity.

        Just like GW1, GW2 is more based on what skills/build you decide to use
      with your tactics and role in PvP and PvE; it creates a lot of
      diversity. There was hundreds of skills in GW1 (with only 8 skill slots
      to use) and just putting it together to make a build was very complex,
      much more than any mmo I’ve seen. So, the GW2 skills system is somewhat
      similar, but also adds new elements to the combat; even switching weapons will change the dynamic of the battle and be useful in certain situations. If GW2 adopts the
      action-combat system, it would be a great idea! BUT we’ll never know
      how the complexity of the system will turn out; it might also limit the
      skills that are available and how they are played out – that will defeat
      the purpose of the competitive skills system.

      Action-combat is fun indeed, but you can also see it this way: it’s pretty much WoW skills with an aiming system + dodge. It’s a fun way to play, but you can’t really change the way you play or your role, or even the dynamic of the battle. (I’m talking about action-combat in general, and not a specific game)

    • Spammerbam

      “you can only roll once or twice in a turn” – imagine everyone rolling all over the place, dodging every single attack. There is no tactical strategy to that.

      “you cant even hit while in air”
      – Yes, you can. I’ve jumped around shooting fireballs and swinging my sword all over the place.

      ” You can’t even block an attack in many cases”
      – Equip a shield. You will have blocking and reflecting skills.

      “It reminds me too much of the wow combat system, but what I seek is more intrigued combat such as the New action mmropgs.”
      – You clearly have the wrong idea of GW2 skills-combat system. Newcomers will overlook its complexity. You may think it’s similar to WoW because it is somewhat tab-targeting. In GW2, if you target an enemy and shoot an arrow/spell at it, it has the ability to dodge, and your attack will miss. But lets say there is another enemy in front of your target, your attacks will end up hitting that enemy that’s in front first – because that is logical.

        Just like GW1, GW2 is more based on what skills/build you decide to use with your tactics and role in PvP and PvE; it creates a lot of diversity. There was hundreds of skills in GW1 (with only 8 skill slots to use) and just putting it together to make a build was very complex, much more than any mmo I’ve seen. So, the GW2 skills system is somewhat similar, but also adds new elements to the combat; even switching weapons will change the dynamic of the battle and be useful in certain situations. If GW2 adopts the action-combat system, it would be a great idea, BUT we’ll never know how the complexity of the system will turn out; it might also limit the skills that are available and how they are played out – that will defeat the purpose of the competitive skills system.

      Action-combat is fun indeed, but you can also see it this way: it’s pretty much WoW skills with an aiming system + dodge. It’s a fun way to play, but you can’t really change the way you play or your role, or even the dynamic of the battle. I’m talking about action-combat in general, and not a specific game.

      Here is a great video on GW2 combat: 

      ^There is closed captioning option if you have trouble listening with an accent.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Scillyleon Leon Kirkham

    I have played DAOC for years and quit due to the zerg nature the game currently has… saying GW2 is zerg v zerg is true but what he doesnt say is that if you have a 5 man team all listerning and working toghter those zergs are a piece of cake to wipe.. me and 4 friends killed groups of 30 people on more than one occasion on monday.

    GW2 PVP is skill based!!!! it doesnt matter if you have 100 bodys in the field, if you not paying attention you gonna get rolled by lesser numbers!

    Also to combat zergs v small man there are alot of terrain that funnel players ( bridges, tunnels etc) into perfect aoe conditions..

    WvW needs a couple of tweeks like autolooting and removing of 75% of agro mobs, oh and a clear realm rank system which its currently lacking but hey its beta im still gonna play it :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/Scillyleon Leon Kirkham

    “You can’t even block an attack in many cases” incorrect”you cant even hit while in air” this isnt aion
    “you can only roll once or twice in a turn” its called stamina i would like to see how many forward rolls you could do one after the other! :P 
    “It reminds me too much of the wow combat system” then you have played to much wow as GW2 is nothing like wow combat.. get real

  • Cam X

    I wish people would stop using ‘revolutionize’ to describe things which are simply incremental improvements.

    Is it better? Yes. Is it revolutionary? No. Can we just be HAPPY with ‘better’? ‘Better’ is still good.

  • http://www.facebook.com/satrio.heru Satrio Axl Heru

    The best way to play GW 2 is tu have A Solid Guild which have a solid solidarity

  • http://www.facebook.com/satrio.heru Satrio Axl Heru

    GW 2 is fun for Mainstream Player and also have hardcore element on it… for people that have a busy work on rea life while still like gaming, they would choose GW 2…. and they could show their kid who beauty is the world  and how to explore ( korean MMO have a  over dossis of sexyness there for not good for child)

    and for barren lands.. wel it will be solved with dynamic event on correct way… such as
    ‘Hey there are an invasion on Black Citadel , please help’ , than a lot of high level player will return to enjoy the content… and with the portal on lion arch it will be easier for people to move betwenn starter area..

    as a char player will get bored on wasteland-ish and metal enviroment and want to look at the beauty of divinity reach

  • Asanotsuki

    @Goryen
    You seem to be a very competitive fellow ^^

  • http://www.facebook.com/v4y13 TIm Hemmen

    the development of GW2 started too close to the development of rift, to say that they copied the dynamic events from rift. this will be like saying that GW1 has stuff copied from WoW, while their release dates were close from eachother, simply said: impossible.
    this is already enough reason for me not to read the full thing, simply because there are facts that aren’t looked at good trough the writing.

  • Asanotsuki

    @Goryen:disqus
     you seem to be a very competitve fellow ^^
    I fear that you will not find what you enjoy in GW2.

    since GW1 the rpg side has been focused on the story and the main thing is: you try to reconcile the different people of the world to some extent, so randomly killing people (players or not) wouldn’t sit well with that. Yes it curtails your freedom, but that’s how it is :) (for the better or the worst depending on your point of view)

    As for the gear reward, PVP or PVE are functionning on the same idea: personnal skill. What can you do if the guy in front of you has the same resources as you? No grey kill in this game.
    If you find a technique to be the best on the battelfield it won’t last, people will find a way to counter it, you must adapt to the on coming counter, etc…
    Why are you so focused on gear? To kill players/bosses more easily? It won’t happen in GW2.

    What a lot of players have enjoyed in GW is the mastering of their characters with a constantly evolving feel to the gameplay while builds change.

    There have been some PVE challenges in GW and I hope to find the same in GW2, the reward? If you’re lucky and you want it a different skin for your weapon/armor. No power up that’ll make your next fight with the same boss/zone any easier.

    What you do not like in GW2 was there in GW1 so as I said I fear you won’t enjoy this game. People look for different things in a game. :)

    • Goryen

      Interesting answer. 
      Well, I’ve never played GW1. 
      As far as I heard about it, ppl told me few years ago, that GW1 was mostly focusing on PVP, with very poor PVE content.Maybe it wasn’t true, but i heard it from ppl that moved from GW1 to play WoW, and all of them said that WoW was better game, with more different things to do.
      That was 5 years ago.Anyway, I will try and check GW2. I like to test new things and as I read about the game more and more I think it will be very interesting to play. Developers trying to convince us to play PVE or PVP aspects different way. They belive their way is the best way to play it.  GW2 popularity scores after lets say 6 months, will answer that.All those “corrected issues” like no quest NPC, that you need to visit after your quest is done…those are only small details, that will improve flow of the game, but essence of all games is well made gameplay.If people after 2-3 weeks felt that game is boring, or they won’t find any reason to play it longer…game will fail.I mean all of you can deny, that you don’t need a plan when you play games like MMO, but I belive all players wants to have a plan, goal, reason to play that kind of games.Some want to beat most difficult bosses or event in PVE, some wants to be best in PVP,some freaks just run and jump around the fountain in main cities and chats on guildchat all day….Some ppl play it very lightly and are called noobs. Some ppl (and it is connected with their nature) trying to achive something and want to play as best as they can, but all of you, me and others need to have reason to play it.And in the games like this main reason to play is to build up your game character(better gear, better skills, improving your own skills when you play chosen class).Currently best MMO games on the market offers tools for players to do it.
      Will GW2 do?Will developers will have reasons to create those tools that will keep players for few years, if they will not charge you 12.99$ per month?I mean i hate to pay it, but atleast I know, that developers will do everything in their powers to evolve my game in every aspect to keep me playing it. I pay them.I won’t be paying for GW2, so will they have enough reasons to expand the game in the future, or maybe GW2 will be just another RPG game with few MMO aspects.I mean, can someone asnwer me why, they won’t charge me every month?I know that they will have some ingame store, but as far as i read about it, they will sell some crap there, nothing more, so it won’t bring them any serious money anyway.I understand Blizzard and Diablo 3, because this game is not really MMO game, just with few MMO aspects, like playing in party of 5 ppl and killing same bosses over and over again. Nothing more so far. No guilds, no castles, no crafting skills, no nothing.But Blizzard have a lof of money and WoW – golden cow.They can afford to release Diablo 3 and make one good cash flow with sales, and then nothing more.But in case of GW2, revolutionary MMO game,that will change the view of that games?They just want us to pay one time, and then they will improve our game and expand our game for free? I don’t get it and it remind me more about single games. One time made, sold and just entertaiment for 20-40 hours. :)

      • Asanotsuki

         As far as I’m concerned, I’ve played both GW1 and WOW (among others) and enjoyed the pve as I’m no PVP girl. It took me more than a year to get all the stuff necessary to get my FOW (elite armor in GW1) I got and it didn’t provide me any edge in PVE, but damn it I was proud! My husband wanted all the elite weapons for the warrior, he drove me crazy, got them and it didn’t provide him any edge IG either, but he was as proud as I.
        We played the game for years, I played WOW for 2 months…and got bored at higher levels…1 year for Aion and Rift the other 2 games I played to high levels (T4 gears etc). In the end in GW1 my joy was to be able to do next to anything with my main, having found the suitable builds for the different situations (even the “run naked” challenges)  and still be able to play with people because the gear was no issue :)
        I know some people would have hated my way of playing, I hate the competition others enjoy, but I won’t begrudge them for it :)
        I think you’re right, time will tell if GW will hold people’s interest. GW1 is still running, I hope GW2 will last as long as its big brother!
        As for the financial aspect, Arenanet has always said a monthly fee was NOT necessary for a game, that selling boxes (and consequently add ons and expansions) was enough to maintain them. It must keep them on their toes for additional content which will NOT be for free, however I cannot asume that I understand every financial aspect of this industry :(

  • lamour42

    GW2 will be
    great. I loved the beta so far. Great Graphics, great gameplay. But why do I
    log off after 1 h continuous play?

    The problem I have with this game is connection. Not physical connection but
    emotional.

    As nice as the dynamic action events are, they leave you with the feeling that
    you personally won’t make a difference. They will happen regardless of you
    logging in, they will be won anyway (and easily) without your char.

    Open world quests do not require me to interact with the quest giver – they
    just pop up. But why should I do them? For me it makes a big difference if I
    get a good reason from a quest giver why I should help him, preferably with
    good voice acting and in-game cinematic. The quests in GW2 feel like work.
    Actually they feel like being just there to pass the time till I run into the
    next dynamic event.

    The story should come in with the personal story quests. But for me it didn’t
    (yet). I am no old GW fan. I know nothing about the races or the lore. My
    personal story (so far) failed to give me a reason to be there. The
    presentation sure is stylish, but still feels a little cheap compared to being
    completely in-game. However, I advanced too little in my personal story to have
    a final opinion here. Absolutely I will continue in beta (and release) to see
    if at some point the story takes off for me and I feel to be an important part
    of the game world.

    GW2 will be a great, action oriented game that I will play with my friends. But
    currently I doubt I will play longer than a handful hours per week. Most of my
    gaming time will continue to go into SWTOR, which gives me all the emotional
    connection I need to play continuously for hours..

    • http://www.facebook.com/Scillyleon Leon Kirkham

      I compelety agree with the quest giver not giving you a story directly but the story section of your quests is going to be 100% what you want to do.

      I weighed up the pro’s and con’s of quest givers and tbh i think not having to return to a guy to say you done it actually is a plus for me. I can just run off to the next heart and keep the grind going.. which i think is a different play style to yours. I am however a pvp preson preferably but i do pve when my friends are not around.

      • jayremy

         I get somewhat the same too, I feel like I am just meandering. What the game lacks is conviction!!! No, but seriously I think it does lack giving you a goal to reach and no I am not talking about max level like other MMOs do, but a more day to day, hour by hour thing outside of personal story which I am not sure many players got into.

        You may run into an event, but you just like “oh that’s nice”, “am I even supposed to be here?” Also I think somebody defined this well at one point, early game either you take no damage it feels like or you get constantly 1-3 shot killed. There is no gradual tethering but say in a late game environment (Wubstep vs Dubstep… WvW) it is more gradual.

        Sometimes I wondered “WTF killed me” early game zones which I was taking seriously because it was like a random curve ball in a mostly easy experience.

        Also bear in mind, this is Beta so its hard to get motivated when you feel rushed, limited and all your progress is going to go to trash anyways when its over. If your like me you kind of hate trying to spend too much time “learning the ropes” of new MMOs, you kind of want the whole “figuring out stage” done without dabbling in it or it feels like a headache to play.

    • Asanotsuki

       I get your point there. It happened differently for me as for most of my quests there was a NPC running up to me or hailing me which helped my personnal immersion.
      As for the thing continuing without our being there yes it is unsettling. Though I disagree with the win easily aspect :p
      Indeed I was testing some weapon when a DE started not far from me with an NPC shouting for help against bandits. Why should I help him? On I went testing my weapon on some poor worms and I even avoided a swarm of bandits on their way up to the water plant. Well the 3 players trying to stall the onslaught…got slaughtered and as a result when I went back to the village all the villagers were sick :p
      At a low level the consequences are not very dire: I lose access to a TP point and some merchants. However I found this a good immersion because the world felt alive for me at least. But as you said it doesn’t revolves around me (player) and sometimes it is a bit miffling! Hey I’m a wannabe hero!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003222087775 Sasha N Brandon

    i logged off and got back to playing Tera! :P 

    • AJ Greene

      Good luck with that, Tera is insanely gear based.

  • http://www.facebook.com/enes.yildiz.5 Enes Apelqvist Yildiz

    Sasha, Throw yourself in the WALL! GW2 FTW <3

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=633390544 Ken Scrannage

    I see alot of comments saying that the game doesn’t properly connect the player to the game world. The personal story line does, and those of us that are focusing on that part can see our connection.

    As for the random quest givers, There are still 2/5ths of the game to be revealed yet (2 races) The connection we are getting to our home city is strong and is quite likely Arenanet’s first priority. The research in these Betas will finalize the template for the races.

    But I don’t think it is realistic to expect Arenanet to tie the whole world together while still missing two of the races. They would be some serious spoilers and completely unplayable scenario’s if what we have seen in these past beta’s is all we can expect. Even a full exploration of Lion’s Arch shows 3 more potentially playable races for upcomming expansions, including an aquatic race.

    For those who really miss actually talking to the quest givers, You can still talk to them. Stand beside them and hit “F”. If you want speach, when the opinion box appears in the top right corner after each quest, ask for quest giver speech in the comments box. I hated being held up by the one member of the party that hadn’t seen the “cut scenes” in GW1 even though I felt that everyone should see them once. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      I would hope it is a lot more than just 2/5 that is missing. The highest level content right now is 25 but the max level is 80 and the areas seem to have around a 10 level range. Assuming all races converge after the lv25 areas there are still at least 6 areas.

      If the system requirement for disk space is anywhere close to correct then we are also still missing around half of the game assets.

    • lamour42

       Good Comment. Thanks. In fact I hope you are right.

      I definitely see that they want the personal story to emotionally connect us to the game world. I just think that the way they are presenting the quests – while being better than just giving text – still wears off fast. I would love to get this in-game.

      Maybe we get more and better introductory videos at launch – if made well they can play an important role for connection.

      While playing one question kept crawling up: Why am I here, what am I doing here? I need purpose.

  • milliebii

    I have read a lot about the “personal storylines”, but when I created my character the first three options where unexciting, picking one lead to another set of options, none of which fit my idea of the character and I didnt want any of them.  Back to the first option, second pick, second list oh crap.  Back to third option same deal. In the end I chose the options at random and ignored the whole thing.

    As for the end of the “trinity” ….. get a grip. There will be dedicated tanks and dps in this game inside of six months and healers will emerge due to popular demand within a year.

    Graphics are not cutting edge by any stretch, Kill 12 rats is still kill 12 rats even if it is disguised in something else.  The innovation in this game is the thinnest of veneers.

    • http://twitter.com/paulklein16 Paul Michael Klein

      hating on a game for not having dedicated healing class and a reasonable amount of storyline options isnt a solid argument. and you dont even have to kill 12 rats the game gives you different ways to complete the event

      • milliebii

         I really wish people would read before posting.

        I said ” healers will emerge due to popular demand within a year”, this is an opinion not an argument. My point is that while the game does not currently have the “trinity” it will over time.

        27 options ( as I remember it, 3 choices in each or 3 steps).  Is not a “reasonable” amount of choice if there are 1,000’s of players in each race/class combo. Nor is it “reasonable” if the choices are inane and boring, which I found them to be.

        as to “hating on a game”, I don’t hate GW2 I just don’t think it merits the hype.

        I particularly dislike the myopic fanboi review at the start of this thread.

        • Jack_Sisco

           Oh look, a classic anti-hypethathastruthtoit fanboi.

          Dedicated tanks and dps inside this game within six months? You obviously havent done a single dungeon or even large fights where any “tank” who decides do take more than one hit gets KO’d. Dedicated DPS, well yep everyone is that. Dedicated Healers by popular acclaim … yea no considering there are options for building nice hp regen builds with good dps if … gasp .. you suck at dodging and predicting big attacks. If you honestly cant pick up tells, this game isn’t for you and players like you Milliebii.

          As for you “lack of options”, SWTOR had as many options to pick from as Guild Wars 2 for each class. It’s what you decide to go with IN the game that branches your storyline. Deciding to JUDGE the games storylines on the first five levels and the pre-selection base choices shows how you haven’t got a clue.

          Do some more research next time hater and stop lieing to yourself.

          • milliebii

             I think you overstate the vulnerability of players to hits: take more than one hit and you are dead? Really! if that was your experience maybe you need to examine your playing style?

            While players that can, (with their current equipment and knowledge of the game) sustain constant aggro on the mob without dying (a tank) may not exist in the current beta that does not mean that players will not be able to develop strategies and equipment builds that will allow them to do so in the future. 

            That is how tanks originally emerged in Everquest. 

            As for healers, I bet that the posts on the forums will start to flood in after launch asking for better heals, abilities that heal the group etc.  Bit by bit inch by inch healers will emerge, it will take longer (and require updates to the game)  than it will take tanks to emerge but they will emerge. Please do not misinterpret this, my normal play style is ranged DPS, not tank and not heals but I do know players (high end raiders) who prefer to play healers or tanks and these are valid well established play styles.

            No I don’t think SWTOR is a better game than GW2, in fact I suspect that GW2 will emerge as a much stronger game than SWTOR. But I do not believe that the storyline options really add much to the game.  What I have seen implemented in the beta seems to restrict options for role play by channeling players into limited and inane choices. Rather than encouraging creative thinking about who your character is and what they would do (the essence of role play).  While offering some choice may be seen as better than the no choice offered in SWTOR (pick a class get a storyline) the inanity of the options (run away and join a circus? in a medieval setting that probably would not have such a thing as a circus.) makes the whole thing moot anyway.

          • Dennis Ryan

            I partially agree with your point about the character creation story options being minimal, and I understand why you think the various cutscenes from the personal story may not add all that much.  However, 2 things.  1, there are other very basic things you can do in the game that add to your total character make-up.  These may not be readily apparent, but, say, killing every innocent bunny you come accross in the game also goes to your personal story-line.  There are randoms factors and actions that you take that are remembered, roughly like the old D&D alignment feature.  2, all of the stuff we’ve seen so far is level 30 and below, so who knows what else is in store for us at this point.

            Also, the definition of a tank is not just someone who holds aggro, technically anyone can do that by kiting.  A pure tank must also be a damage-sink, whether it be through insanely high armor, health, evasion, etc.  So far…and I do only mean so far…the game mechanics have seemed to suggest that no class can withstand direct punishment for more than a few moments.  Some are better at it than others for sure.  But unless high level gear/skills/etc can somehow overcome that, I don’t see a true tank coming about.

            I suppose you could argue that there might be “kiter” builds that come about eventually, although that seems like a huge hassle to me. :P

            I like your arguements though, there is quite a bit of hype for GW2, and not all of it is merited.

        • http://www.facebook.com/rtloveless Ryan Tyler Loveless

          You are wrong again sir. There are more options. Your race and class are ALSO options to choose from.

          • milliebii

             You really don’t read do you?
             Try reading the full comment next time; in the very next line I say “in each race/class combo”.

          • http://www.facebook.com/rtloveless Ryan Tyler Loveless

            Good sir, you need to re-read what you type then. You did NOT say there were 27 options in each class. You said there are 1,000’s of players in each race/class combo. Learn some English. I read what you said. So to say there are only 27 options is wrong. In the end there are at least 800 different possibilities. Come on man, do NOT put false information. I’m not stupid. You said there are thousands of players in each race/class combo, NOT that there are 27 options in each race class combo.

            And obviously, you didn’t look at everything. Some of the other questions they ask in the beginning, there are MORE THAN THREE OPTIONS! Hell for Necro and Elem at least there is one that has close to 6-7 choices! Play the game in full and look at everything BEFORE you start talking trash. Dumbass.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Buth/1660112274 Nathan Buth

             You are being dumb man.  Stop flaunting your fanboism just because a guy said something against your game.  he was not talking trash and he stated exactly what you stated.  Furthermore unless you are always watching the guy you cannot state he has not played the game in full.  Maybe he has and just doesn’t like it, or maybe he does like it except for a few thing here and there.  Now take some deep breaths, walk away from the computer, and read a book or something.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000080203617 Nita van der Velden

             i think milliebii really has a point, guildwars 2 IS overhyped. its a very good game and im fan of it but people expect it to be perfect. but every game has its flaws,so does guildwars 2. 
            and since the internet is a free medium people should be able to mention this things without being called a hater

            if you reply to these kind of comments, please put your fanboy hat off first 

        • Aeredan Shendaarius

          A simple option for you, and the others that do not like the game is this:  Do not play the game.

          Trying to please a larger number of consumers across such a diverse field generally devolves into a consensus-based, luke-warm execution.  Trying to be all things to all people results in failure each and every time it is tried, regardless of the market or product.

          If and when the developers decide to part with their core design, then it will be the demise of GW2. Why play GW2 which attempts to bring aspects from “the other games”, when you can just play “the other games” which fulfill that design natively and from the start?

        • Katarina_Kettle

          I disagree about having “tanks” and “healers”, as really I don’t think it’s possible. Bosses will kill you in 3 hits – even if you’re a Guardian with full Vitality and full plate armour being “healed” by, I don’t know, five Elementalists in their water attunements. You simply cannot stand in one spot, take hits, and expect to live. GW2 doesn’t work like that. It’s all about avoiding damage altogether, through moving, dodging, and using your conditions wisely. And everyone can do that. Therefore: I don’t see a holy trinity emerging. 

        • Katarina_Kettle

          I disagree with there being an emergence of “tanks” and “healers”. Bosses will kill you in three hits, it doesn’t matter if you’re a Guardian stacking pure Vitality and Toughness, in full plate, being “healed” by, say, five Elementalists in their water attunements. If you stand in one place in front of the boss and take the hits, you will die. I can guarantee it. Fighting bosses in GW2 is all about avoiding damage all together, because getting one-shot is a real possibility if you don’t move, dodge, and know how and when to use your conditions. Therefore no, I don’t see a holy trinity emerging. 

      • pandora005

         Personally I think its a bad decision to DENY players the ability to CHOOSE to play a healer or tank if they WANT TO. As long as these two options ARE NOT NEEDED to finish an encounter everything should be alright and according to the vision of ANet.

        The explanation:
        In the usual MMOs with a holy trinity its always the dps players who whine and complain about a lack of healers and tanks. A dedicated dps player – and pvp fetishists in particular – focuses his gameplay on his own e-penis, but dedicated healers and tanks are the true teamwork players. With Arenanets decision to have no class capable of being dedicated healers or tanks it has turned the “boohoo, I cant do a dungeon run because there are no healers online” whine into a “you are not allowed to play a healer/tank” commandment … which in my eyes is equally bad. The REAL solution is to make these available but unnecessary.

        This is the biggest problem I have with GW2 … going from one extreme to the exact opposite one.

        P.S.: You might want to check who you call a hater. Not every criticism is hate and milliebii raises some very good points.

        • AJ Greene

          You have to realize that if they added healers and tanks that people would instead always want a healer and a tank, and never run with just pure dps. This game is NOT intended for organized arrangements, it’s intended for chaotic play.

          It worked for Guild Wars 1 and as far as I’m concerned, the only people complaining are the MMO players that can’t handle change.
          The trinity will never be in GW2, don’t even think that. The amount that don’t want a trinity far surpasses the amount that do. Not to mention that again, it worked for Guild Wars 1, though I guess Guild Wars had a healer, but no such thing as a tank except in certain runs.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Buth/1660112274 Nathan Buth

             You and I must have played a very different version of Guild Wars.  Never was I in a group of just pure DPS running amok.  We had a tank, we had DPS, we had a healer and we had support(which is what I was).  It was quite structured and every class served its purpose.  I think it should be approached how it was then, every class had a few different paths you could take that would determine what you were to a group, not oh lets just make everybody be DPS…

        • http://www.facebook.com/roguedevjake Jiku Michiru

           It is your wording and the way you present your points. Some of them are close to being true but a bit invalid really and I suggest playing the game and doing a bit more research first, kinda reminds me of a guy who was complaining about “if exp purchasing was in the cashshop it will break the game” think a bit, do your research and then comment with humility and thought.

  • lokiflux

    If you play melee, you never have to target anything. The game uses a hybrid targetting system and is nowhere near just a tab target system. The combat is just thrilling. WvW will never be just zerging. I scored top with 50% more points capping objectives as opposed to the others that zerged. Zerging will make you lose the match. Dynamic events are super upgraded versions from warhammer and rift. The questing system HAS to have some sort of point. Unless you just want to hit some guy’s fence for no reason for 80 levels you’re gonna have to have goals.

    Just want to clear those things up because they were mentioned as if they were actual problems because some ignorant people pretend they know anything about the game.

  • Cobra_uk

    I’ve been playing MMO’s for well over 14 years, but I’ve come to find no matter how much i hate Tab targetting it is still one of the most dependable systems still in large scale PvP and i’d hate to think how good the next system will be like, because lets face it the auto aiming/dodge system just doesn’t cut it.

  • Cobra_uk

     I’ve been playing MMO’s for well over 14 years, but I’ve come to find no
    matter how much i hate Tab targetting it is still one of the most dependable systems still in large scale PvP and i’d hate to think how good the next system will be like, because lets face it the auto aiming/dodge system just doesn’t cut it.And i must admit GW2 has let me down in area’s but made up to it in other area’s as other MMORPG’s have but long as the PvP and WvW is intense when it gets going and a single fight can last hours if a guild just doesn’t want to back down.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/D2XKV42V5IU2PAXVKDFNEE7MOI freedomwave

    hey have you tried TERA online yet people. Skills not gears.

    • Genesizs FL

       wrong , lol

      • Eilanzer

        and it have the same boring quest kill 20 this…kill 50 that…deliver to me…go to another npc and kill blah…BORING!!!

        Guild wars 2 even in beta is MUCH BETTER than this!!!

    • Spammerbam

      I’ve played it. The only skills needed are aiming and dodging skills. Gears play an important factor also.

      …aaannnddd that’s pretty much it.

    • http://twitter.com/jtlowe83 Jason Lowe

      Are you kidding? Tera is so gear based it is not even funny, between the gear in that game then the enchanting system on top of the gear TERA is more gear based then most of the MMOs that are out right now….. ROFL

  • Spammerbam

    Can’t wait

  • Spammerbam

    woof

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000080203617 Nita van der Velden

    haha, trying to be negative, still positive in the endXD

  • asdfghjasdfghj

    found the released date its june 26 according to gamestop http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/guild-wars-2/75863

  • Guest

    Renown hearts i believe  these where put in  the game cos as arenanet stated tht players didnt really know what to do when they entered the gw2 world since traditional mmo questing  is very different it holds our hands n guides us every step of he way  wht to do n where to go. say be rift swtor or wow. if gamers knew wht to do dnt think arenanet would even have put the Renown Hearts in. as time goes by n players get the a custom to the  game arena net can totally remove those  there is  always a possibility. puttin something esle  tht we have havent seen or done before .

    dynamic events are just gussied-up “kill 10 rats” quests.Dynamic events just copy Warhammer Online/Rift.i beg to differ Sir  i came up across this video while surfing the level to detail is very impressive if this is the level arena net is setting in a mmo unreal  this type of stuff usually we come across in a single player game . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes the video should be really seen by the masses.warhammer n rift  didnt have this kind of detail.

    Personal storyline? Seen it, killed a Sith lord, moved on.it wouldnt be fair to say tht cos we even havent seen the personal storyline at max level and how they change depending on your decision .since the story doesnt follow a linear path each time u make a choice ur personal story arches of to multiple possibility.

    World versus world boils down to zerg versus zerg. i believe it will  (come down to the players strategy ).n how they do it everyone plays a game or toon differently no 2 players play’s alike. a small 5 man covert team if they know wht they r doing can really turn the tide of battle. strategy  is key.

    Combat isn’t that interesting. Tab-targeting FTL. ( rofl) really combat is the best part of gw 2  the controls r tight the movement is fluid,dodge ability is n awesome  feature  gw2 combat is heaps better than any other mmo atm out there .u dnt just face tank an magically  text pops up saying u blocked and  dodge attacks standing still .gw 2 u see ur toon block with the shiled  n dodging attacks .

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7VLKI7JU2CSS5FI2IDCPOVDVJY D Lee

    I never even bothered playing the first Guild Wars because I was a loyal WoW gamer. I know for sure I’m going to get GW2 after reading this article and watching people play the beta on Youtube. It looks like everything I want in a deep, rich game.