Will World of Warcraft’s developers ever tire of stealing ideas from other popular MMORPGS, and MMOs in general? PvP scaling is the latest great idea to appear in WoW that was most likely borrowed, if heavily adapted, from Guild Wars 2, after Jumping Puzzles cropped up in the patch 5.2 PTR a couple of weeks back.

WoW’s version of PvP scaling does, in all fairness, work rather differently to that in Guild Wars 2. It’s currently limited to battlegrounds, not applying to arenas or open world PvP, but who knows whether this could come in the future. Arenas are far from balanced within brackets outside level 70 and level 90, with players from 80 to 84 facing off against each other, so this seems like a prime target for future PvP scaling additions.

The current system on the PTR is that players entering a battleground at the bottom level of a bracket will be scaled in level and primary stats to match players of the top level. WoW’s battleground brackets run from 10-14, 15-19, 20-24, 25-29 and so on, all the way to level 90. So, a level 14 player entering a battleground would, under the old system, face off against level 19s with additional health, power, and skills. The new system will scale up that level 14 to level 19, and increase their primary stats, so, in the case of a melee that might be hit, strength and stamina, while a caster might be scaled up in intellect and hit. There is also mention made of an increase in critical strike chance, which would definitely be considered a secondary stat. Just like one element of Guild Wars 2 PvP scaling, there will be no new skills given to the player – a level 15 will not have access to the same skills as a level 19.

[pull_quote align=right]For the twinking community, this is a blow.[/pull_quote] For the twinking community, this is a blow. However, it’s far from the death of twinking – the hardcore twink game will have changed very little, if anything the focus on gear will be still higher, as scaling will alter the optimum pieces. For the casual twink, the focus will likely shift from being at an appropriate level on a strong class to picking classes according to their abilities at level. There will also likely be a shift in focus towards gear for the casual twink.

But clarification of this feature is sorely needed. Blizzard’s patch notes only mention PvP scaling for “low level” battlegrounds. Does this mean only battlegrounds up to level 60? Or every bracket but level 90? And what exactly will scale, will it purely be primary stats and stats affected by them? One thing’s for sure, though, it’s a good thing that lower level brackets are being stabilized.

What do you think of the new system? And what will be the next feature that WoW steals from Guild Wars 2?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Dobalina/100002971552895 Bob Dobalina

    It’s only a matter of time that GW2 PVE scaling comes to WoW as well.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      I hope not, but we will see. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Robert-Woodhouse/720201353 Stephen Robert Woodhouse

      Ehh would kind of ruin their freshly implemented old world raid nerfs would it not?

  • http://twitter.com/cosmic_kirby CosmicKirby

    Oh darn, the twinks are going to be at a disadvantage (read: less of an absurd advantage), truly I feel compelled to care.

  • http://twitter.com/FishBaitism Fish Bait

    Been a while since I played, but don`t Twinks still have their on bg queues or did ActiBlizz` finally get rid of that mess?
    Used to have a partial twink, queues were regularly 2+hours for just one bg.

  • Stuart Dunn

    I hate how people act like WoW using other people’s ideas is a cheat. How many of those games took ideas from WoW? Well, if they all have in-game mail systems….. game devs take good ideas and use them, as they should – because it is the gamers who matter and the genre as a whole will continue to evolve by keeping the good, and fixing the bad – from all games. I’m ecstatic that WoW added Transmog from GW2. Not so sure about the scaling, but we’ll see.

    • http://www.facebook.com/edmobm Edmo Bernardes Monteiro

      “How many of those games took ideas from WoW?”
      none, all copy everquest

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Can’t wait to see what EQ Next is like. Really hope it’s the sandbox MMO many folks are asking for.  Wonder what they will steal and dump from everquest. 

      • Shadowtalis

        People need to stop looking at Everqest through the rose colored glasses of nostalgia. Everquest brought almost nothing to the table gameplay wise.

        Everquest was a nice looking, for its time, fantasy world. It was what the teenagers who didn’t know better played. That’s about it. Ultima Online was a better sandbox. Asherons Call was flat out a better game, then and now.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Robert-Woodhouse/720201353 Stephen Robert Woodhouse

          Thats the thing about opinions its only yours. Everquest was named the pioneer. Thats fact not something made up. Sorry =/

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Wow, has Transmog been out for over a year? So, no didn’t take that one from GW2.

      Does any other MMO use a transmog system?

      • Stuart Dunn

        I stopped playing WoW near the start of Cata, and recently returned. I was not aware of the date when transmog was added, so sorry if I was mistaken. GW2 had a similar feature and that is where I first saw it. The point of my comment is unchanged however. Seems that it was removed though, guess if you criticize gbtv you get deleted. And @facebook-1198333919:disqus Blizzard added so much to the MMO genre that your comment makes me laugh. Thank god they didn’t copy everything I guess, so glad I don’t level backwards anymore >.< but seriously, your comment might have some validity if EQ was the first MMO, and you somehow equate every other game in the genre to be a ripoff… but it wasn't the first MMO, not even close, and the number of features added to WoW from EQ is enormous. 

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          Ah, then you missed the big transmog raid runs.  You would clear Dragon Soul in two-three hours and spend the rest of the week farming transmog gear from older raids.  

  • Kingmob23

    Didn’t Swtor do pvp scaling  first? How are they stealing this from GW2 which puts everyone to max level with the best pvp gear in spvp? This system is closer to SWTOR than GW2

    • Emilio Aguinaldo

      I recall a game called Troy Online had PvP Scaling before it was cool.

  • SevenFold

    Ummm pretty sure this would be more of SWTOR pvp scaling “Bolstering” , not GW2 ..

  • Paul Allen

    Well 70s the only not dead twink bracket so who cares?

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    Sounds much more like SWTOR.  But this tech has been available in WoW for awhile. 

    I wouldn’t call this one GW2 at all.  GW2 uses two different schemes.  Once replaces your PvE character with a max level sPvP version and the other is boost to level 80 for WvW.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Robert-Woodhouse/720201353 Stephen Robert Woodhouse

      Yah this was in swtor first. But GBTV cant help a circle**** over gw2.

      • Clifford Dutka

        Agree, hope this is the last I see about this type of article making it onto GBTV. Claiming that GW2 is the victim in a theft, when they two adopted it from another game is a very big stretch and I expected better of GBTV.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Robert-Woodhouse/720201353 Stephen Robert Woodhouse

          Yes then delete those comments that criticize their work. Foxnews would be proud.

          • Clifford Dutka

            The comment was a bit vulgar, Maybe restate without the vulgarity.

          • http://quintlyn.com/ QuintLyn Bowers

             Yes.. Because we deleted any other comment here that is also criticizing the piece.  From here on out, watch your language when you post and I’ll be less likely to delete them.

    • http://twitter.com/arsenicspritzer ArsenicSpritzer

      Why steal from SWTOR when that game is a proven failure, when they have a bona fide success story, from which to “liberate” their “new” ideas? Blizzard is desperate to hammer their beat up old jalopy into some semblance of modernity. It won’t stop at jumping puzzles and scaling. And I’ll bet that their shiny new Titan, will have borrowed a hell of a lot more from GW2, by the time they release it.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        SWTOR had some good features, it just failed at a massive scale at end game.  

        It will be very interesting to see the what comparisons Titian (if it is ever released) has to the current batch of MMOs.  WoW clone, Rift clone, GW2 clone, TESO clone…..

  • http://twitter.com/tirelth Amber Howdeshell

    First off, given everything that WoW has given to the MMO genre, I think they’re entitled to ‘borrow’ (not steal) from those same games that have essentially done the same to them. Second off, this is a feature that people have been asking for long before GW2 was released, and it’s not really the same as what happens in GW2 – it’s probably closer to SW:TOR’s form of warzones. It is an excellent feature and will certainly make pre-90 BGs a lot more enjoyable when you’re not at the level cap for your bracket – especially for those who enjoy using BGs as a supplement to their leveling experience.

    • Layithen

      Agree totally, for every one idea Blizzard might take other games have stolen ten of theirs. This criticism should extend both ways…but it wont. People like to hate on the big dog.

      • 7BitBrian

         Why are people taking such offense? Who said it was a bad thing to steal successful things from other games?

        Also LOL you’d be hard pressed to name 10 things that WoW came up with that the MMO genre steals. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of the game, I play a lot, even if I am overly critical of it, but Blizzard has always been better at iteration(taking something and improving on it) than they have been at innovation.

        WoW is a great game, full of great features, but they only innovated maybe 3 of them.

        • Shadowtalis

          You are mistaken.

          The entire themepark MMO model is lifted *directly* from WoW.

          Or to really drive the point home. QUESTING itself wasn’t a thing before WoW.

          • http://twitter.com/cecilandblues Anthony Botz

            Theme parks were not a new idea. Nor was questing. WoW Made extensive use of open work questing as part of the leveling process. City of Heroes, for example, had a full questing leveling path, but missions were mostly instanced. Not that Warcraft Stole this idea, they evolved it, such is game design. Just like they didn’t steal this, and certainly not from GW2.

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            The initial design of WoW had only 100 Alliance quests, 100 Horde quests and 100 neutral quest.  

          • 7BitBrian

             I’m sorry but no. Questing has been the main form of content in all RPGs since DnD pen and Paper. And it stayed as much when the first MMOs were made. Ultima had quests, so did EverQuest. They did it differently than WoW yes, but it was questing. Meaning WoW iterated on it to try to improve on the questing concept(whether or not they succeeded is a matter of opinion).

            WoW was not the first MMO, nor did it start or innovate much of what it does. It may have helped these features become MMO staples, mainstream if you will. But Blizzard sure as hell weren’t the first company, or WoW the first MMO, to use said features.

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          It’s more about the tone and content of the article that set off the aggressive responses. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/coryrj Cory Refshauge-Jones

    SWTOR had PvP scaling before GW2, and before them it was Warhammer. Adapting concepts from other games is hardly a new or shocking occurrence, and it’s hardly one to be shunned. You’re never going to make a game devoid of features that exist in any other game, so you might as well borrow the ideas that improve the quality of life for players.
    “And what will be the next feature that WoW steals from Guild Wars 2?”

    Really? What point is there to make such blatant, inflammatory accusations?

  • http://twitter.com/buddy800 Mike Baker

    Gear/Character scaling is not new to any of the current MMORPG’s it is an old idea that has been used for a LONG time it is not borrowed from GW2. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Carl-Sherman-Allison/100001026518734 Carl Sherman Allison

      isn’t swtor pvp lvl 10-49 scaled too, and swtor was out before gw2.  It’s just blizzard implementing a feature that is successful in other mmo’s to make their game better!!!  I like the fact that blizzard continually add new features to the game as it is 8 years old :)

  • http://twitter.com/Luke_Malcolm Luke Malcolm

    It toke Blizzard this long to do PvP scaling, I’m shocked for once.

  • flamingbug

    This kind of scaling has been around in other games for much longer, I can think of Warhammer Online for example which has been using PVP scaling for much longer than SWTOR or GW2. Claiming that WoW is stealing it from GW2 sounds a bit petty to me to be honest, and enforces the idea that GW2 is just the most recent ‘WoW Killer’ taking it’s swing. I do get the point, however, that WoW has always been the kind of game that uses things from other games that actually work (it’s never been a secret) and given how long it took them to implement this only stands to reason that they were waiting for more positive feedback from the gaming community, which mainly came with GW2. Still I’m slightly disappointed with the tone of the news and I usually like the way you bring things to my attention, it sounds a bit like a fanboyist lash and beating a dead horse. But that’s just my opinion, maybe I’m burnt and just tired of the argument never growing from there and focusing on this particular point. 

    My opinion on the actual news is too little, too late, it would have been something that would have improved gameplay a long time ago, but with the level gaps so close nowadays, it doesn’t help so much and I don’t see it fixing much of the imbalance problems.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507780036 Shreddy Mcfretshredder

    Gamebreaker, get your goddamn facts straight! 

    1. JP’s were in games before guild wars 2.
    2. No Lvl 14 would be in a 15-19 bracket match(are you freakin kidding me gb? seriously how do you mess that up? >.> )
    3. This doesn’t seem like much of a ‘blow’ imo for twinks. Think about it, they will for every level bracket under the sun have stats equal to that of the top of the tier. Seeing as the goal of a twink is to get hella stronger then the general populous of a tier, this would only help.

    do you even reread over what you write?

    • 7BitBrian

       Actually level 11s used to be matched up against level 19s, then they implemented a change and split the brackets. It still didn’t help much. Jumping puzzles, the likes of which are in GW2, were never seen in an MMO until GW2.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        While I agree GW2 took jumping puzzles in MMOs to the next level.  SWTOR had a significant number of jumping puzzles for stat bonuses and datacrons. 

        • http://twitter.com/Luke_Malcolm Luke Malcolm

          There Jumping Puzzles on WoW Private servers aswell. GW2 just kicked it up a notch.

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            As someone post above, the Molten Front dailies had a simple jumping puzzle.

  • http://twitter.com/Hagg3r Michael

    Um, this is nothing like GW2. This is straight up copied from Warhammer. This has been used for years. GW2 scaling works much differently. 

  • http://twitter.com/cipero Matt Cipriano

    if everyone was scaled up to max level, THEN this would be like gw2, but IMO this is a blizzard twist on the system swtor used.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JoeKey Joe Key

    To be fair WoW had jumping puzzles years before GW2 came out.  One recent example being the Molten Front dailies.

    • http://www.facebook.com/christopher.j.weimer.9 Christopher James Weimer

      that’s not a jumping puzzle troll lol 

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Sorry, it actually is. I forgot all about that one.   

        But to be fair, no MMO has embraced jumping puzzles like GW2. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/JoeKey Joe Key

    This doesn’t affect twinks either, since the have their own bracket and only fight other players at the same level.  A twink in BG at say 19 will only ever fight other lvl 19s, because their experience is turned off.

  • arenasb

    I’d say it’s more like Warhammer and SWTOR’s scaling rather than GW2. I think it’s a good move though

  • http://www.facebook.com/thelethrface Steven Opie Wallace

    Whether it was taken from another MMO or not, it was a move that was despirately needed.  Twinking was unfair no matter how you looked at it, giving not-so-good players an extra edge and making really good players nearly unstoppable.  Scaling wont kill the impact twinking has but it will surely help even the odds a little to make pvp at lower levels fun again.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000609849818 Thien Nguyen

    Joe Key, i don’t consider that as a jumping puzzle since its just not really that much of a jump or a puzzle… it was more like a joke from Halo, where you jump onto the launch pad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elias.rowan Elias Rowan

    Too bad GW2 didn’t come out years ago when WoW should have actually started doing this.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/MKGGFF2WZWGTHLS56BBVDYUCCU ADAM

    with all this wonder when scaling in leveling area’s will come into play like in gw2 were if you go back to a lv10 area at lv40 it scales you down to that level and quests give u almost same xp ?

    • http://www.facebook.com/richard.h.lucht Richard H. Lucht

      EQ2 has had a feature like this for years you just had to “mentor” someone of a lower level to do it.

  • http://twitter.com/Sylaurin Ryan Hoerber

    “WoW’s battleground brackets run from 10-14, 15-19, 20-24, 25-29 and so on, all the way to level 90. So, a level 14 player entering a battleground would, under the old system, face off against level 19s with additional health, power, and skills” 

    Might want to proof read this a bit better.

  • trials

    Haha, this thread is comedy gold. 

    So, when is the next holy avenger stepping up to tell her that she made a typing mistake and put a 4 instead of a 5? You guys want a cookie? :)

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      ROFL, you win the least offensive troll post.  Please pick up a box of thin mints from the girl scouts and drop them off at the local food bank. 

  • Chris Martin

    Next update. Mists of Kodanaria!

  • http://twitter.com/MiZTiiX MiZTiiX

    wh refer veything to gw2? i sick of it…if we reffeed every feature from evey single game it would be a clusterfuck

  • Cindy Bradley

    This is more of a Rift style scaling than Guild Wars 2…

    • http://www.facebook.com/UnderdogSMO Christopher Smith

      yeah but rift only did it after GW2 made it a thing :P

      • http://www.facebook.com/James.Edward.Balmer James Edward Balmer

        Wrong, Rift had it from day 1, years before GW2’s release. GW2 actually stole this idea from other MMO’s, just like jumping puzzles already being in Swtor before GW2’s release. Nothing in GW2 is new at all, nothing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jordan.dixon.75 Jordan Dixon

     erm…this is nothing like GW2…and i’m a huge fan of both games…

    in GW2 you are instantly leveled to max level, in WoW you are bumped up to the highest level of the tier, NOT max….

    and in the case of gw2 sPvP….you have access to all abilities and gear and traits…whereas in WoW, it looks like you won’t

    you could say its similar to GW2’s World PvP,…but then you cant really compare one games World PvP to another games Structured PvP because in GW2 World PvP, there are level 10’s, with no traits fighting level 80’s with full traits…in WoW it is only a 4 level gap

    grasp at storyline’s more IGN

  • Deadnstien

    Now if they would only copy GW2s down ranking in low lvl PVE zones to curtail ganking and make world PvP something fun, I might actually roll on a PvP server again. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.handibode Joseph Handibode

    Wow once again still ideas from another company that does stuff better.  WoW is garbage.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.fiol Joseph Giovanni Fiol

    Isn’t stealing great ideas Blizzards business model?

  • Sharuko

    This article cannot be written seriously, it has to be bait of some kind.  Why would WoW copy PvP systems from GW2, when GW2 has less than 200 people on their sPvP servers during Primetime? It is a complete failure. Warhammer Online has more player in their scenarios than GW2 has in sPvP.  

    Speaking of Warhammer Online, this system works like Warhammer Online.  There are brackets and you get boosted up to the max level in your bracket.  If WoW leveled everyone to max level then there would be a point, but that is not what they are doing.  Regardless, SWTOR had a system liek this before GW2.

    Jumping puzzles have been in WoW.  The difference is Blizzard doesn’t look at it as a “feature” to boast about because they actually have content in their game.  While GW2 has to boast about “jumping puzzles” like some sort of feature because the game lacks content.  SWTOR also had “jumping puzzles”.  The day companies like Blizzard steal ideas from games like GW2 is the day gaming will die.