Like it or not, there will be a FFXIV subscription fee when A Realm Reborn launches, but why was this decision made?

A common occurrence in the comments for almost every Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (FFXIV) piece that I write is the response of “I’d check it out but not with a subscription.” I can see that point though. With the current free to play trend of most MMORPGs in the market that Square Enix will be re-launching into, it could be a bit of a sticking point for many gamers.

A few months ago I even dove into just the topic of a free to play Final Fantasy and why I didn’t think it would happen any time soon. While those were my own opinions at that time, today Yoshi-P, Producer and Directory of FFXIV‘s relaunch, took to the news waves in an interview with Venturebeat (Gamesbeat) to explain the rationale behind a FFXIV subscription fee.

While I won’t post the entire response here as it is quite lengthy but very interesting, I will tell you that Yoshi-P feels that MMORPG development today falls into two categories, those games that are investor tied and rely on fast income to pay all involved parties off but then may struggle with funding for future updates, and those companies like Blizzard and Square Enix that self fund their projects and can afford to wait for a more steady and reliable income off of a small fanbase.

Don’t misunderstand though, Yoshi-P was not advocating one model over the other, he explained that in his opinion the FFXIV subscription not only ensured a somewhat steady rate of income for the developer (which allows for better planning for future updates) but also provided a better game for FFXIV players because they could enjoy the benefits of a more steady rate of updates.

It’s an interesting debate and while Yoshi-P uses references to Star Wars: The Old Republic and RIFT as recent examples of games that were built to be subscription based but changed due to market conditions, he doesn’t feel that the FFXIV subscription fee  is an “outdated” payment model as it fits with the high budget proportions of the game’s development. Yes, he acknowledges that their player base may be smaller than some other games on the market because of the subscription fee, but he is banking on knowing what type of income will be coming in monthly rather than maybe having a customer shell out $100 today and then never pay for anything again.

Personally, I’ve already expressed my opinion of being fine with a FFXIV subscription. I am fine with any game that wants to charge a subscription as long as I feel my money is worth it while I play, but in this age of F2P I can also see why many want to at least play for free for a while before making the call to shell out hard earned cash.

Check out his full response in the link above and let me know how you feel on the topic below!

  • Andrew June

    9-15 dollar sub fee a month is nothing. Sub fees are not an out-dated business model. People have just gotten this weird sense of entitlement from games. There really is no MMO that started as a F2P and is high successful(MOBAs don’t count, they are an entirely different breed of game). It’s all games that went to F2P after sub didn’t work. FFXIV could potential end up this way as well.

    I am enjoying XIV ARR 100x more than 1.0. I feel it is worth the sub fee as of now. In a few months after launch, whose to say if this will be the case. They have to keep introducing content for the sub to be worth it. And from everything I’m reading that is their plan.

    WoW is still incredibly successful because of all the new content. FFXI is still thriving because of it. I have hope for XIV ARR. But Wildstar, ESO, Archeage, & Blade and Soul could very well take me away. Who knows.

    • theunwarshed

      not a true statement. here’s just 1 example off the top of my head: GW2

      they’ve made money on this game and are still in business.

      • Andrew June

        GW2 isn’t free2play. It is buy2play. I wouldn’t call them highly successful either. They ARE successful and they have a lot going for them. I enjoyed it for 4 months, then not so much.
        Not huge on PvP so W v W didn’t interest me much.

        I don’t bash on any MMO’s and say they are complete shit unless they are. They all have their pros and cons. People just fixate on minor issues and if there’s not some grand feature that makes it the second coming of Buddy Jesus they flip out.

        But again there is no game that started as f2p that is successful.

  • Kyle Harpster

    Personally I am fine with games that have a sub, as it makes the player base a bit better do to there is a fee to enter. But yes, the game has to be worth the month fee and I feel that XIV in not worth the money. Yes they have done a lot to make the game better from version 1.0. But it is still not enough; the combat is not engaging at all. Its boring, mindless with seemingly no thought in its execution only that it is a copy what has already been done, yet been done better. The questing is just your standard bore. And this is really the main reason why XIV is not worth a sub, the game is nothing new. Its everything that has been done in MMOs 10 years ago and adds nothing to make them fresh. All is does is try to hide these old boring systems with good looking graphics.

    • Andrew June

      All MMO’s have your standard quest model. XIV just has all the quest models. Standard NPC driven quests, dynamic event quests and leve quests(which is essentially NPC driven quests). If you have a problem with XIV questing then you have a problem with all MMORPG games. So, WoW isn’t worth the sub in this regard.

      As for combat, I am enjoying it. It IS like every MMO but why is that bad? Guess it all boils down if you like traditional combat or action combat(which still gets boring after a while).

      There’s always something to bitch about in MMO’s. But if it’s not a game for you then it’s not for you.

      • Kyle Harpster

        I really don’t mind traditional tab targeting, its just that VIX feels like its a worst version of it. There is no point to move around at all, the enemy is always facing you no matter what. And the animations, sliding around the ground are just awful. It has no strategy and just feels much to spammy than any other tab targeting game.

        As for the questing, yes I don’t care for really any questing in MMOs Guild Wars 2 was probably the most enjoyable but it still became extremely repetitive after awhile. I would rather just have zero quests (as in quest bubbles over NPC) and just be in the world wondering around and finding things to do and experience. I feel there is way too much hand holding in XIV. Not much room to just explore or no point to. The world seems very small, tho that could be do to everything is cut off and not a full open world.

        Yes, it is most likely not a game for me, but who is this game made for? Only the small player base that are Legacy players? Super FF Fanboys? I very much doubt that player base can support the game for the long hall. It needs to have more of what is in the MMO genre now and not 10 year old systems.

        • Picoman

          I would say, a lot of mobs now telegraph their AOE moves on the ground, so you might wanna move for that. Then there are the classes that have directional moves where it is advantageous to get into position.

          • Kyle Harpster

            Yes, but when there are only the same telegraph from every mob and there is no dodge, having to move out of the circle but yet still get hit cause the server lag is so bad. An you are also dealing with the sliding around/bad movement animations, it seems pretty pointless.

            there also maybe moves and classes that have advantages for positioning but when you can’t move around a mob or control its positioning at all. No matter where you move, it moves with you. By the time you may have a small opening before it does face you, you can’t use your skills do to the long GCD. How can there any need to move around and have position advantage when LOS doesn’t even exist in this game. Let alone how PvP is even going to work with this mess of a combat system.

          • Thaguf

            Really if you want pvp you should never seek out a final fantasy game. The strongest asset it has is story and a familiar universe of characters. GCD thing is better at later levels the battle system picks up. Seems so to me at least.

          • Kyle Harpster

            Hmm, then why are they adding PvP? Also how plays an MMO for a story? It didn’t work for Star Wars its not going to work for FF. Also the GCD may be better at later levels, but how late? I am 20 and its horrible, if you have to get to 45 for the combat to get interesting and the GCD to get better that is just stupid. Why are you having to slog through half the for the game with poor combat?

          • Thaguf

            Most people played ffxi for the story people still play it. If you are really lvl 20 you shouldn’t be having to much GCD problems.Go play Tera or something you seem to want action combat.

        • Andrew June

          The MMO Genre Today has exactly the same things it had 10 years ago. The only “new” concepts MMOs have are Dynamic quests/events and action-based combat and maybe the whole no character levels(which is dumb IMO).

          As derpy as the sliding looks when you are in the middle of a melee or archer ability. It’s far from awful. All MMO’s have that spammy concept for combat. They all suffer from it.

          The game has the attention of a lot of people now than it did before. Most people who were skeptical are actually enjoying the game. FFXIV doesn’t have to be as successful as WoW to be successful. I believe they even said they are not trying to be the “killer” MMO.

          I believe the community that XIV can get will support the game for the long haul. XI was never uber high numbers but that has been a 10 year+ game with sub and still going strong. Whether XIV will do that… who knows. Failure is always a possibility.

      • Michael Byrne

        Agree :) I think there’s room in the market for well done tab targetting games that are well done, whether they carry the FF IP or not :)

  • Trollbelly

    Thank god! I’m so sick of f2p games and their “hey its free! now give us a shit ton of money to be able to do anything in the game!” approach.

    I will gladly subscribe to ff14, and with the subscription know that my monthly 15 bucks will grant me access to EVERYTHING in the game and I will be able to earn anything they add to the game for my sub!

    Unlike SWTOR’s constant cash market updates that add zero access to the new items in game besides buying them from the store.

  • Rock Mu

    Personally I’m glad it’s P2P only. I mean, this dev team was able to continue to update 1.0 for so long while working on this new game. And it really is a completely new game. To me that’s a sign that I will get a nice return (content wise) for my monthly fee with A Realm Reborn.

  • Kichwas

    At a certain point one can only take so many subscriptions going at once.

    If you make me choose between your new MMO and the one I’ve had a sub to for years, I may be tired of my old one, but I might not be willing to give it up for uncertain waters.

    I was good to go with the buy-to-play model of Guild Wars 2: which I feel is the perfect middle ground. But I don’t see myself even trying another subscription game until the day I finally shut off the tap on WoW. The sub might not be much on a per month basis, but every year I am paying $179.40 just for access to WoW – and I’m not yet ready to double that.

    So FFXIV will be getting a pass from me, even if it might be better, because I still do have connections over in WoW.

  • InWaves257

    its funny i have seen a few people Iffy on the sub, but put it this way

    if you play for 5hours a day every day it works out at $0.10 a day …

    • BJWyler

      That’s only if you have 5 hours a day to play and only play that one game. What people fail to realize when rationalizing a subscription is that the MMO genre is saturated with games now. That was not the case when games like WoW, Eve, SWG, and the likes got their start. There were very few quality games to choose from, so players had more time to dedicate to their preferred MMO. That is no longer the case – F2P offers players the opportunity to play many games without having to take out a loan or get a second (or third) job in order to pay to play those games (which of course becomes impossible if you are working 2-3 jobs anyway).

      • Trollbelly

        lmfao what? get a second or third job to pay for an mmo? hahaha

        what drugs are you taking?

        F2P offers people the ability to look inside of a game, but heavily heavily restricted. Then they either have an option to pay a sub for full access. A sub? wait! i thought f2p games were supposed to be better then sub based games!!! shut up you!

        Or they can pay more then a monthly sub for access to bits and pieces of the game. Man those f2p games sure sound appealing!!! Oh, almost forgot, those f2p games also completely concentrate on updating their cash shops and not the actual game as much as they can. Making the game you play stagnant.

        Yeah no thanks. I’ll stick to the pay2play model.

    • Lord Styx

      $0.10 5hours a day 35 hours a week x what ever your time is worth. Minimum wage 7.25×35=253.75 / 7 = 36.25 + 0.10 = $36.35 a day.

      How much is your time worth?

      • InWaves257

        ok well lets put it this way, i went out with a friend the other night i paid for mine and her booze that was a $150, if people can buy fags at $5 a day or drink booze they can afford a game sub

        • Lord Styx

          $0.10 5hours a day 35 hours a week x what ever your time is worth. My time worth $4,365 x35=$152775 / 7 = $21825 + 0.10 = $21825.10 a day.

          Have an idea of what I am thinking yet?

  • Picoman

    The interview was a great read! It is clear that Yoshi-P knows what he is talking about and making decisions based on what type of company SE is and what kind of game he is making. I think the slow and steady approach is better in the long term for players and that they don’t have to worry about laying-off people due to inconsistent F2P income.

    SE is also unique in that when a project no longer requires say a full time Audio Team or need to trim down their Battle Team, they simply move on to the next project for example, Kingdom Hearts or FFXV.

  • theunwarshed

    the problem with a sub game for me is that i have a huge problem with being cutoff from content that i already paid for the minute i don’t want to continue with a sub. that’s bs. with a game like GW2 i paid for the launch product and any a la carte things and i’ll always have access to those things whenever i decide to return to the game. that’s an honest way to deal with customers, and quite frankly, sub games have been dealing with their customers in a very dishonest, greedy and hostile manner for years. i’ll never play another sub game again, no matter how good it is.

    • FFXIVgamer

      Yoshida isnt treating us dishonest, greedy or hostile. SE is giving everyone who owns the 1.0 version of the game FFXIV ARR for free. SE has even given all those who stuck around and supported them through the bad periods of the game a lifetime discount of 9.99 usd a month, custom designed Chocobo mount, your name in the game credits, and more to show their thanks.

      When I was buying Riot Points to buy Vladimir in LOL, Riot charged my paypal account 5 times for same amount. And when I demanded 4 of those to be paid back, their support was crap. And took about 1-2 months before anything was done.

      And you do have access to absolutly everything ingame when paying the fee. It just isnt like WOW where they handhold you and show you endgame content without any efforts at all. If I want to see what the hardest endgame content is like, I put time and efforts into doing so. Improving myself constantly.

      • czechslavoc

        Riot 60+ mil accounts vs FFXIV (lets be generous) 100k accounts

        Hmmmmm, I wonder why it took them so long to help.

        • FFXIVgamer

          where did you come up with those numbers?
          And Riot wasnt even NICE when they answered my petitions.
          I have been in contact with SE Support several times regarding XIV, XI and other games they have, and I usually have received answers within 2 days.

          • Trollbelly

            why is SE being compared to Riot in the first place? They are two completely different type of game designers

      • theunwarshed

        Can you play any of that without paying a sub? if not, why bring it up in response to what i said? it has no bearing on the points i make. a discount on stuff you’ve already paid for is like paying a recurring tax for the privilege of accessing content you’ve already paid for…fuk that shite! i’ve already paid the ridiculous retail markup on the box, plus sales tax and whatever other misc. taxes/costs on the launch product. when you buy a pair of jeans at the store, do you keep paying them every time you put them on? subs are nothing more than a use tax.

        i’m not saying that SE is any worse or better than other devs charging sub games, i’m saying i’m not dumb enough to play that game any longer.

  • Eggers

    This was a good interview but Yoshi and Square going to have trouble with a sub based MMO. WoW and Eve are the only two games that are still running with one currently, and of them only Eve is gaining subs. WoW lost over a million subscriptions in three months. WoW still does have a lot of subs, but Blizzard has even stated they are expecting to lose more before the end of the year.

    With the money that has been dropped into FFXIV I’m not sure they can have a smaller sub base like Eve. The game I think has always been built with more of a million or more subs in mind, and that won’t happen. Many player will be on the PS3 or PS4 which will have its on subs for its network. I don’t see too many people wanting to pay one, let alone two subscriptions for one game.

    This worries me because if FFXIV doesn’t do well it could bankrupt Square. FFXIV is just too big of an investment for Square now. I don’t want to see Square fold, but not listening to the players, fans, and market is what put them in this situation to began with. The MMO market keeps showing that subs are going away. Devs working on SWTOR state that going F2P saved the game. Look at Rift since they stated they where going F2P, the severs are packed now. TSW has kept putting out content since they went B2P. Many games with the B2P model are doing great, continue to add new content the games, look at GW2. In my nine months in GW2 I’ve spend more than a sub would costs in a year, and it is all stupid crap I buy. I bought everything you could at Halloween stuff LOL. No game in the past two to three year has, that has lunched with a sub has kept it. The population in the game keep getting smaller and smaller until, they go F2P.

    A subscription for FFXIV could break Square. This is a risky stance to take, and I hope everything goes okay, but I don’t think it will. If FFXIV releases with a sub, I’ll bet they will be F2P or B2P within a year, or they won’t be making games any longer.

    • rustyhagun

      Um, FFXI still runs a sub. and is one of SE main money makers. The quality of FFXIV is not the same as all those other mmo’s that came and left, f2p. For one SE is a gaming company. That has been around for decades. Two this is their 2nd mmo. 3 They make at ton of other games for various systems. They are not loosing anything if they have a sub. and say you are right, don’t pull in millions of subs. SE just getting 500,000 they would be content and still keep the subscription up. They have a fan base that voted for them to keep the subscription up. There are many SE fans that would not play the game if it went free2play.

      FFXI would have to go f2p first before this beauty of an MMO even thought about such an idea.

      You forget those other companies that bring these f2p mmo’s to the table have no other source of IP income to keep them a float.

      FFXIV is just another project for SE and a valued one at that, as they scraped the old 1.0 version all together, and made this beast of a game called FFXIV:ARR. Creating a whole new graphics engine just to make this beast of a game. Other developers would never think to do such a thing, as they dont have the bank to do so.

      I just say this to say. SE can do what they want and don’t have to bend to the peer pressure of the mmo gaming community. Its their IP and they know how many people are already waiting and willing to pay monthly to play this game. And its a lot. We won’t miss you the rest of ya.

      And the rest of ya will be back as there is nothing out this year for MMO competition for the level grade FFXIV is bringing to the table. Keep thinking games like Wildstar is going to bring anything worth wild. Enjoy that f2p game for the 1st month. The only game that even peeks my interest is Archage. But its prob. going f2p so I won’t even bother.

      F2P games are the bottom part of the MMO food chain, in my eyes.

      • czechslavoc

        “There are many SE fans that would not play the game if it went free2play.”

        Did you go full retard for a moment when you wrote this?

        What person, let alone gamer says, ‘I’d rather pay for something when it could be free.” Please get off your high horse. F2P is not less quality. It just means if you don’t care for bells and whistles you don’t have to pay monthly for it.

        A few questions: did you play 14? If so for how long till you quit?
        Have you tried the beta? For a game this long in production have you ever had combat this bad? Release the fan boy and look at this game objectively. Its a continued blemish on one of the greatest game IPs of all time. Why didn’t they bury it and forget it?

        • Thaguf

          “There are many SE fans that would not play the game if it went free2play.” He isn’t making that up its the consensus on the beta forum. The beta is great don’t be a hater.

          • FFXIVgamer

            I am one of those I will not play XIV if it was F2P.
            Beta is really awesome and gives me that awesome FF feeling that no other games can replicate.
            Played XIV1.0 since patch 1.15, and been waiting on it to Launch again ever since 1 Nov when they shut down 1.0 servers

          • Lord Styx

            Yes there are a lot of fans that won’t play if it goes ftp but are there enough fans to keep it going? That’s where I am a skeptic I think what SE is looking for to have in there game and what they do have isn’t enough. After all the first launch of this game the fans didn’t keep it a float. Cause really what does the game have if your not a fan? The answer is just what everyone else has.

          • ZackForester

            Great plan for a successful MMO. Placate a couple thousand beta testers and alienate millions of potential players in the process.

        • FFXIVgamer

          I for one do not play F2P games due to majority of them is filled of toxic players and community isnt stable enough to be worth making friends.

          With a small cost per month, there is much bigger chance players take the game more seriously and will log in more constantly to get their moneys worth.

          I for one, would stop playing XIV ARR if it ever went F2P and puts in cashshops. If something is worth it, I WILL pay for it rather than getting a cheap free experience. Like when I played WOW for 6 years, I felt it was worth my money, until I felt the game was changing in ways I didnt agree upon, and quit. And I came to FFXIV back in 1.0 in patch 1.15 and loved it.

          I am so happy to see Yoshida stand up and sticks to his views. Just look what his views has done to the game going from Tanakas 1.0 to Yoshidas 2.0 version.

          The guy is just incredible. He even spent his Golden Week testing XIV on how the game looked on different PC monitor brands to make sure it looks good. He works morning to past midnight in the office. A more dedication to a game is far and few in between,

          Games like LOL, SMite and DOta I am fine with being F2P cause I hardly ever play them :P

          • czechslavoc

            All games are filled with toxic players, please do not fool yourself. Ex: Eve is not F2P, can you tell me all the nice people you meet there in 0 space? Go ahead I’ll wait. Or what about WoW, go into an instance with a pug, tell me all the fun you have on the need rolls and pulling entire instances, etc. Play anything competitive and this is true, toxic players live here.

            F2P vs P2P doesn’t change anything. Let’s also be honest here, no one is really asking for FF to be F2P, but more B2P. They just don’t see the demand for a sub. One model being better than another is in your head, a state of mind. Whether you give me a McDouble or I buy a McDouble, I think it’ll taste the same. If you paying for something every month makes you think it is somehow better, awesome.

            From your comments seems like your not a Moba player and I would assume you got flamed pretty hard. Sorry about that, there is bots and tutorials but in the end you don’t get to slap you face on the keyboard and win like you can in the mmo genre. No doubt some demand skill, the chaining in 11 was a pain, on dialup believe this.

            Paying monthly guarantees nothing. GW2, Rift and LoL patch and add content more than any other developers I can think of, they are B2P and F2P models.

            P2P is fine, just don’t hate on the other models. To each his own.

            This is not a one way street. In fact the gaming world is changing everyday and dinosaurs like ourselves (I am an EQ1 player, yes I played many sub models, omg) are going to have to live with the idea that not all great content demands a sub.

            I hope FF-REBORN is great, no better than that, I hope its the best MMO of this decade, because FFIV was the worst game I had ever purchased, from the crafting system(mat requirements eg. needing a lvl 7 blacksmith to make a lvl 2 leather item), limited questing, storage space, item trading, aggro mechanics. I did quit at lvl 15-16 and I cant think of an MMO that I didnt max or get near that. Sadly it left a bad taste in my mouth. I hope for all you fan boys, Reborn is amazing!

        • Kasern

          I played FFXIV at launch, and I will admit that I only played it for the first month. It was trash. Complete and utter garbage.

          So yeah, I was leery when I received an invite to FFXIV: ARR. And at first, after having come from GW2 (launch until Xmas) and Neverwinter (which I played till 60 then quit on) the combat felt a little slow, static even. And the world didn’t quite feel as vibrant or alive as GW2 with it’s NPCs running around and events happening all over the place.

          But the more time I spent on the game, I found the community to be far, far more friendly than any I had played with before in both betas and launched games. Many had come from FFXI or stuck with FFXIV 1.0 I learned, and while some were a bit standoffish they were all really friendly and helpful to newer players

          Then I got into group content, with timed dungeons and open world events and it suddenly struck me. This is Final Fantasy. It’s not GW2, it’s not Neverwinter. If anything it’s a lot like Burning Crusade imo, but at the core, what had hooked me is that it plays like a Final Fantasy.

          Now, you can claim that SE is missing out on millions of players by choosing not to go F2P. And that’s completely true. But just like Yoshi said, of those millions of players, only a tiny fraction will actually spend any money. Then they all rush to the next big F2P shiny.

          Lastly, it’s a Japanese game. From a Japanese company, made by Japanese devs and in a country where more gamers own PS3s than PCs, I honestly don’t think SE cares that much what us Westerners think.

          • czechslavoc

            Well said.

            Only thing I can say is tiny communities tend to be nicer than larger. Think of servers, guilds, groups, parties, the smaller ones are easier to get closer to and make friends. I hope Reborn is still inviting if it gets big. Cause if it does grow large, all the slim and filth that you so run from will be at your front door, and yet again, you’ll have to deal with it.

            Running from game to game is the option you have in a sea so deep of content.

            There used to only be a few choices, and now that there are so many, how can we ever be content?

  • Rasmus Nielsen

    Alas, this wsa the final nail in the coffin for the game for me, simply not worth a sub fee, especially with the poor reasoning that a sub fee somehow means better or more content, something several Games have proven them wrong on. TSW, Neverwinter, STO, GW1 and GW2, all of which, have increased their Content Cadence since going free to play, OR in the case of Neverwinter, GW1 and GW2, all of which were free to play from the getgo, and have shown that a F2P model is both more income than a P2P one, and also better enticement TO MAKE QUALITY CONTENT, because shit content gets *instant* reactions in income. I think, unfortunately, that this will mean, that FFXIV will go the way of SWG and die a slow death over a year or two after trying desperately to reboot their game, and making the wrong choices in the most important aspects of the market *at the time*

    • Thaguf

      I doubt it will die in a year or two, a lot of the existing fans on ffxi servers are switching games and they are in it for the long haul. Most people on my ffxi server have played consistently for many years.

      • ZackForester

        FFXI fans already tried FFXIV on the first launch and it was universally panned. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The only way they’re going to get their player base from FFXI to switch to FFXIV:ARR is if they shutdown the FFXI servers.

        • Kasern

          I disagree. The fact that Square Enix has spent the money and taken the time to not only relaunch the game but completely rebuild it and believe me, having played the beta it only resembles the first game in that you have similar classes and the place names are the same, it is a very different game – proves to many of us that the devs listened, they realized the first version wasn’t good enough and are trying to fix it instead of just moving on to the next thing like so many F2P devs do.

          • ZackForester

            First off, I’m in the beta. The game is slow and combat feels clunky and boring. Gameplay wise it’s STILL worse than FFXI. It’s irrelevant how much an improvement you feel it is over 1.0. This is not a AAA mmo and it’s certainly not worth the subscription price in it’s current incarnation. If I’ve learned anything over the last 10 years, it’s that games bearing Final Fantasy moniker aren’t the gold standard they used to be.

          • Kasern

            How anyone feels about a game is never irrelevant. I mean, how you feel about a game is the entire point. I, personally, feel this game is a huge improvement over 1.0. This means that while I would never have gone back to 1.0 even if it were free, I will happily sub to ARR. Hence, relevant.

            And the gold standard you are applying to the previous Final Fantasy games doesn’t actually exist. That’s the nostalgia and simply not knowing better as a kid talking. If you go back and play any of the Final Fantasy games ever, you will see that they really don’t live up to the memories we have of them. They were cliched stories wrapped in generic fantasy worlds that couldn’t decide if they were feudal Japan, middle ages Europe or some kind of cyberpunk and padded with stupid amounts of grinding in order to level enough to get past some boss or find some particular weapon.

            If you ask me, the Final Fantasy series were single player games yearning to be MMOs lol. But they were hardly the epitomy of role play gaming that people make them out to be.

            So seriously, just be happy that we are getting a solid Final Fantasy MMO from the people who make Final Fantasy. They could have easily decided it wasn’t worth the effort and simply never released the game to the West. It wouldn’t be the first time.

          • ZackForester

            How you feel about this game compared to it’s earlier version is irrelevant and how you feel about the game at this time is not the entire point because it completely lacks context. It does not matter if FFXIV:ARR is better than FFXIV 1.0, because FFXIV:ARR is an inferior game to FFXI, an MMO which was released what would be considered 2 PC generations ago. It makes no sense to drop down a subscription fee on an game that’s inferior to it’s predecessor.

            Also, I own all of the Final Fantasies from FFIII to FFXIII-2 and replay most of them regularly. Honestly, it’s sad that nostalgia is the immediate go-to when people try and defend new games. Nostalgia by it’s very nature can’t influence present opinion when anyone can pick up a copy of those older games and see for themselves that Square Enix hasn’t produced a “solid” final fantasy that wasn’t a remake in over 10 years.

          • Kasern

            I misread FFXI for FFXIV, but I still disagree. XI was a grindfest that was quickly left behind by World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 1. I played XI for about 12 months, first on PC then later on the Xbox 360 and both times it was a massive waste of time.

            Modern MMOs need to leave behind the grinds and accommodate an aging demographic, a demographic that might once have had 10 hours a day to sink into a game, that could play all night long and still get up and go to class or their part-time job at some fast food place but we’ve grown up since then. We have kids, full-time jobs and lets be serious, we’re the demographic that matters because we’re the ones with the income.

            That’s what the F2P games want. Our income. They make games that we can pick up and play for a short time, they give us shortcuts and boosts, because they know we would rather drop some cash on it than waste our time in order to get to the good stuff.

            XI is a dinosaur and the only reason it still has players is because XIV 1.0 was so bad.

            And I’m not comparing the older FF games to new RPGs. There were plenty of better RPGs at the same time as those games. Tons of PC RPG games were much, much better than the Final Fantasy series and I say that as someone who enjoyed most of the Final Fantasy games.

            Not 9 though. That game sucked.

    • FFXIVgamer

      If all those awesome F2P games has proven that they are so great, why are you complaining this one particuarly game isnt F2P?
      Go play all those great F2P instead then and have fun ;)

      • Rasmus Nielsen

        I do play all those great F2P Games, was hoping to add FF XIV to the list of awesome games I play, alas, simply not worth a sub.

  • BillyBobBohBrain

    How many people have defend their product and claims its so good that it deserved a subscription and that it NEED the sub in order to maintain its so call great quality service only to later end up saying something like ” Time is changing so too have our model and / or We listen to our FAN and our fan demand f2p so now what was once P2P is now F2P”. Maybe FFXIV will never go F2P but if it ever does go F2P where will Yoshi-P put his face ? Remember that interview where I think it was the producer was being ask why there is no jumping in FFXIV and his reply was “Why would you ever need to jump” Where is his face now ?

  • Thaguf

    I am glad for the sub I have played many hours of beta already and think its worth one. If you dont want to pay the fee dont play simple as that. F2p games are bs….sick of all the shops with boost and crap.

  • Len Hobbel

    You kids cry so much over 15 bucks….step back when I started gaming it was 2.99 a HOUR and there was no choice you either PAID or did play and yes many didnt…My average monthly gaming bill was 300 a month.

    Now come on OBAMA says we are in the best times ever…so why cant you afford 15 a month. Even someone making min wage can afford that.
    If you actually cant afford 15 a month, there are dozens of GOVERNMENT programs you can leach money off of…remember this is the LEACH off OBAMA years…

    Maybe I just had a great job and could afford gaming then and now…plus buying Homes, building muscle cars having kids….

    Hell right now my income is LOW since I retired at 46 2 years ago..and I still can afford to pay. Now i do own a nice home flat out NO car payments but MY disability check aint shit.
    All this complaining about I CANT AFFORD PAY to play yet ya drink? yep thats costs alot more…do ya smoke…theres 2-10 accounts paid for.

    • Kasern

      If you can’t afford $15 a month for a game that may last you years, where you play with hundreds, perhaps thousands of other people, where content is monthly or bi-monthly in updating, then you shouldn’t be gaming.

      Most console gamers I know spend $60-$100 a week on new games.

    • Cpt.Badger

      Why the frak did you put POLITICS into gaming ? What is wrong with you bro ?

    • Trevor

      hey, i don’t really have an opinion about this FFXIV sub stuff, but i just wanna point out that you assumed everyone here is from ‘MURICAH! Well, we’re not. Greetings from Europe <(^_^o)

  • McGamer

    If anything, the fact that FFXIV will require a subscription is one of the main reasons I am looking forward to its launch. Personally, I am done with F2P games that are just P2W games in disguise.

    • Kasern

      Completely agree. I also believe that subs keep the drifters and game hoppers at a more controllable level. It’s nice to know what kind of population you can expect in a sub game where people are more dedicated to the game.

      • FFXIVgamer

        I 100% agree on this. F2P has way to much gamehoppers and makes the server community unstable. When I played GW2, i tried making friends, but very often I never saw them log back in.
        P2P games keeps more serious players stick around. Just like how I experienced in WOW.

        12.99usd a month is so miniscule, so if people have issues paying that, they might have bigger issues to worry about than 1 P2P game and go play one of the many F2P games out there. You cannot get everything in life for free you know.

        • Kasern

          They want it all for free though. And that’s just it, if the sub is the only thing stopping you from playing this game then clearly the game is doing something right.

          If you were on the fence because you thought combat looked too static, and weren’t a fan of the art direction and then heard there would also be a sub – I could understand that being the final straw as it were.

          But seriously, if a monthly sub is the only reason you refuse to play a game, then all you’re doing it setting yourself a line and refusing to cross it. That’s your loss, not ours.

  • IchbinVol

    Let me translate all this for Yoshi-P – “We, at Square Enix, are freakin’ broke as hell! We need all your money just so we can feed our children. Please feed our children, thank you & goodnight.”

    • IchbinVol

      ok, one more…
      “For just $14.99 a month, you can feed a starving developer. You also get to enjoy a game, but know that you made it possible for a SE employer to get his daily meal.”

      • FFXIVgamer

        Are you upset mommy wont pay for you to play ?
        And its 12.99 pr month, cheaper than WOW, and from what I have seen so far after Alpha-Beta Phase3 testing, a lot more fun than WOW. So its more value for money ;)

        If you have worked your ass off like Yoshida and his crew has done nonstop for 2 years now, you wouldnt make these smartass comments. Grow up.

        If you watch his latest livestreams/interviews etc, you can see the guy is utterly exhausted. He has also been sick several times due to overworking himself. I have never worked so hard that I actually become sick from it. Neither have you I bet.

        • darkpriestx

          So things i have learned from square. 12.99 per month….im gonna bet that you can only make 1 character with that and they are gonna charge an extra $1 or 2 for every alt like ff11. I also learned that after playing final fantasy 14 round 1 that this game utterly sucked. It sucked hard enough that gary would throw the box around the studio. I think they follow the nintendo model of thinking its ok to suck cause they have mario and everyone is always going to love mario….right? If anyone actually plays this game then good luck. Lets hope they dont have levequests, crafting, +1 +2 +3s, and you know lets just hope they dont need a round 3.

          • darkpriestx

            maybe they should just do another tactics game and call it a day.

          • Kasern

            While I would love a Final Fantasy Tactics MMO, with mercenary companies and capturing cities and territory etc, it’s not really what most Final Fantasy fans expect lol.

            Anyway, on alts, why would you need more than one character slot? You can play every class and profession on a single character.

          • darkpriestx

            Tactics was just a fun game with decent story. In Final fantasy 11, people would make alts to play a different races but it eventually just became a character with a different crafting profession and more bank room. Bank room could still be an issue. i think round 1 started with 100 slots and then they moved it to 300…right? i dont remember but i do think it is cheap for them to charge per character. it is a better plan if ffgamer is right and it is a flat 15 a month for unlimited use.

          • FFXIVgamer

            Fun to see you have absolutly zero knowledge about XIV ARR. 1.0 Version was really bad. But ARR is a completly different game. And 12.99 gives you 1 character per server, 8 characters total. If you pay 14.99, you get 8 characters per server, 40 characters total. But why on earth would anyone need that many Alts when 1 character can learn every single class and do every profession?

            Crafting has been revamped alot, its now just Normal and HQ quality, no +1+2+3. Levequests is still here and but also new Guildhests. Even Gary now seems pretty interested in XIV from last TWIMMO, he was pretty excited over what he tried out in Beta himself.

            Next time, do some homework before spouting nonsense that you have no knowledge of.

            Square Enix has also publicly apologized and admitted they have taken SE and Final Fantasy etc for granted, and will turn their ship around to put their fans in the main focus. CEO Wada has even stepped down and their CFO whos also a gamer himself take over.

            And also with Naoki Yoshida as a figurehead of Square Enix, I see great things coming in the future. Like FF XV and Kingdom Hearts 3

          • darkpriestx

            Oh I have plenty of knowledge on this series….enough to sit back and watch it implode from a distance. For most games that look iffy i would say give it a month or two before you buy it. This game I would say give it a solid 2-6 months and gl! I hope it does come out great cause ff11 was epic but I havent seen anything I would want to buy in years.

        • IchbinVol

          Cya in game! :D
          Bet ya didn’t know I’m also a fan of the FF series… Just because someone jokes, doesn’t mean they’re against it. However, you must admit, a sub fee is pretty much to save the burning ship known as SE…

        • Light Yagami

          LOL comparing this to wow? A game that was made correctly the first time? Silly. So it’s NOBLE to sell a game so shitty you have to completely redesign it? Sounds more like stealing.

          • FFXIVgamer

            Did you play WOW in beta and launch days? I can tell you that WOW did not have a problemfree launch at all. Loads of server crashes, bugs for a long time post launch.

            I have never said its noble to sell a substandard game, but SE has publicly apologized to their customers and promised they would fix it, and they have. And those who owned the original version of the game gets ARR for free, those who owns the CE versions also gets the same new ingame bonuses as the new CE contains.

            When people apologizes, I tend to forgive them and see if they do better next time. And I feel SE and Yoshida has delivered on that.

          • Blake Morris

            remember loot lag? omg what a shitty experience.

        • remagVIXFF

          Mommy wont pay to play for me D:

    • Ken

      Lol SE are making tons of money off FFXI (still running as P2P game) and current console game sales; along with magazines and anime profits. Not only that but now they are a major video game publisher as well.
      They are taking the fanbase/long-term profit route rather than the “hey let’s get more players than WoW” route.
      I’m getting tired of educating you guys on video game marketing. SE is taking a very smart decision in requiring a sub-fee. This a game for Final Fantasy fans who are interested in MMO’s. It’s a small audience compared to general MMO exposure; but I like the cozy idealism proposed.
      Grow up.

      • IchbinVol

        Couldn’t help but notice you spam replying ppl that don’t fit you’re attitude. This was a simple joke, but you had to go and be all, “I iz so knowledgeable, u iz bad guy.”
        Well, have fun with that, cool guy. In the mean time, I’ll have fun doing free things, like your mom. :D

        • Ken

          LMAO I have ONE other reply on a guy who was making an odd comparison with SWTOR and FFXIVARR.
          Almost respected your reply before the “…like your mom.” comment.
          See ya’ later, kiddo.

          • IchbinVol

            Yeah, couldn’t help myself. :)

  • Mathew Whalen

    Ya know I for one am happy to see that there will be a sub fee. After spending well over 200 over time in Gw2 to only find out that none of it went into Gw2 itself…. I would like to hope that the sub fee’s profits will go back into the game. I mean granted WoW (imo) is not in its golden age anymore however when i did throw my money at blizzard I always got NEW content.. Granted the content was not always the best but hey it was NEW. Go go FFXIV I look to playing you soon.

    • Rich E.

      rofl.. you spent 200$ in GW2? was that pink sparkle bow worth it? lol that game isnt worth a dime.

      • Dularr

        Someone who spends $200 on the Guild Wars 2 gem shop is probably using the gem shop more like a pachinko machine or gambling device. No guarantee they got the pink sparkle bow. Its gambling pure and simple.

    • Gunner Peterson

      Of course money spent on gems goes into Guild Wars 2, how do you think they maintain their 2 week cycle or pay the bills. You must be talking about the fact that they are owned by NCSoft, many Developers are owned by Publishing companies. Blizzard was owned by Vivendi Universal and now Activision Blizzard. Doing a quick read through of the comments on this article, it shows how ignorant, entitled, uneducated and ill mannered gamers are. I gotta say I’ve not seen a fanbase worse than the gaming fanbase.

      • Dularr

        Not necessarily. Income from GW2 gem shop goes to NCSoft and is used in support of ALL NCSoft games. NCSoft then decides which games are funded and for how much. Clearly, with the expansion talk, NCSoft is still interested in funding Arenanet. But don’t make it sound like spending money in the GW2 gem shop only supports the development of GW2.

        While Blizzard is owned by Vivendi, Blizzard is both the publisher and game developer, so Blizzard is responsible for their own profits and losses. Deciding which Blizzard games get funded and for how much.

  • Depravity

    Well, nobody’s mentioning the network infrastructure costs that go along F2P. A massive influx of “free” players brings much higher costs and maybe, just maybe, they’re thinking it’s not worth the risk. Square Enix has made really bad decisions lately and the market analysts over there have not been on the successful side of the fence, but I sincerely hope they made the right choice going for a sub-based offering. I can’t comment on their expenses and projected returns, but I’m sure they’re taking into consideration shitloads of factors we just don’t know anything about (including the console market variables we’re honestly completely in the dark about).

    I tried the beta and it is very old-school in the sense of archaic toolbar combat and no radical innovations MMOs have adopted in the past few years, but the game is solid, feels very FF and deserves the monthly sub if you’re into that sort of gaming.

  • LusitanGaming

    This game is totally not worth the sub fee, but as Michael mentioned on his article that they have their own funding to wait a long time till it gets profitable. i wonder how they get to this decision while having massive losses in last year financial year and the year before.

    Before the hate descend into my post, i have to say not all games games are for everyone, this one is clearly not a game for me, boring questing, alot of running back and forth for alot of times a single quest, combat is slow (still think GCD is too high even at high levels). one think i would give them the up-most praise is that their new engine runs smooth on my machine and the world is just damn beautiful, they have a great engine to outsource here.

    • FFXIVgamer

      Just curious to know why you feel this game is totally not worth the 13usd a month fee?
      Combat and speed at highlevel in beta is max 35 out of 50. So you have no direct experience there.
      Describe what MMO has exciting and unique questings. I would think with the Echo that puts your character into the past to see whats happened is pretty unique when questing.

      With many ways of transports. Chocobo and other mounts, Return, Teleport, Trains, Airships etc, I dont find myself running that much back and forth.

      With guild/player housing, craftable housing items, chocobo breeding, using chocobo in combat, Casino, limit breaks in parties, primal battles, 2 raids, 18 dungeons at launch, FATEs, guildhests, materia system and more to come. How can anyone say this isnt worth the tiny fee of 13USD a month?

      • kcz7

        I concur! That’s a tad priced above 2 venti white chocolate mochas w/extra shot of espresso from Starbucks. And that’s in 2 days…. When ARR is a WHOLE MONTH of gaming worth. Very easy case as to why the sub is highly doable. Case closed! Game on my friends!

  • Dularr

    It will be interesting to see how the financials for this game works out.

    While there is a hardcore fan base, how many boxes will they sell and how many subscribers will they keep? How long will they keep the fan base subscribed? If the hardcore fan base already has FFXIV and will get ARR for free, how does that affect the profitability of Square Enix?

    While there are reports that , FFXIV sold 630k copies (does seem to be disputed), will FFXIV ARR sell more or less copies than the initial release. I’m assuming less, because if you purchased FFXIV, don’t you get a free copy of ARR?

    Assuming ARR ends up with 630k possible subscribers, how many subscriptions will they end up with? Will they hit the 20% of sales staying a subscribers, similar to other MMOs?

    Can ARR survive as an MMO with a 126k subscriber base?

    • Picoman

      If i have my maths correct (probably not!), 126k subs is still nearly $2.5 billion if it lasts as long as XI. ^^
      So 500k subs is around $10billion?

      • Dularr

        The FFXI numbers are very interesting. It does show growth from the initial 90k box sales to the peak 500k subscribers.

        Clearly a highly profitable game for Square Enix.

        If ARR peaked at 126k subs, it would bring in 22.7 million dollars per year.

        That makes for a really good question, if the subs stay steady, how long will it take ARR to make back the development costs for FFXIV and FFXIV ARR?

        • James Walters

          Sadly, that’s what people don’t understand or wanna hear at this point.. SE would never make there investment back if the game were to Release F2P.. Only thing that’s gonna happen is either they shutdown the servers and cut there loses or Lockout NA/EU and keep servers running in JP. Japanese companies have done it plenty of times

  • Men_In_Tights_Too

    Why cant they go the GW2 route? Box price with a cash shop? they will probably go F2P within 12 months of launch anyway.

    • Lord Styx

      I say 3 months or they die.

      • Picoman

        Even though they said they would be happy with steady income rather than inconsistent F2P income? Did you read the article linked in the OP?

      • FFXIVgamer

        FFXI wants a word with you about that. 10+ years and still pay to play and just got a whole new expansion in march and still doing well with a stable community.

        Square Enix doesnt have their money in videogames, but also anime and manga comics and more. Sure their last fiscal year showed that they lost lots of money, but they are not in danger of bankrupsy. They just have less money than they would like. What other gaming company would have the cash to spend 2 years rebuilding their entire game. I am sure if WOW has had a similar launch as XIV 1.0. that Blizzard would not do what SE has done.

        • Lord Styx

          Do you think the game can survive off FFXI player base?
          I don’t.

          Besides I don’t think they would keep a game running if it is losing money no matter how many hands the have in different pockets.

          So I say again 3months this game FFIV adapts to survive or it dies. Unless I am way over on what I think it is costing them to make this game.

          • James Walters

            With that said, you sir should be able to give a perfectly good reason why the FFXI Community has been stable for the last 11 years

  • dope_danny

    Setting aside that its been retooled into a very boring wow clone that literally has players que in game waiting for hours for a quest trigger item to spawn from as low as level 5 that is NOT worth paying for per month, also that the FF brand has been destroyed in the last ten years, what about the current climate makes them think its time for another sub mmo?
    Do they think a sub is somehow still some form of badge of quality over free to play games? maybe 5 years ago sure. Now? not really.

    Setting aside that its a bad game, and beta tester here, it is most certainly that. Look at the environment, the competition and the fact that even in its native Japan the brand recognition for this series is now at a staggering low and i have no idea beyond simple greed from a business thats not doing so hot compared to the 90’s that wants to “get that wow money” and dont have the foresight to look at exactly whats happened to every other mmo to try that.

    I mean real talk? This game ,while yes “its just a beta”, makes SWTOR look not just good but fantastic. This is coming from someone who is to put it mildly not a big fan of EA’s cartel roullette mmo. Now If all the time and money behind that couldnt keep it afloat on subscriptions do they think the name “final fantasy” is enough to get $15 a month of players? Maybe if it was 1996. But this is the 21st century and most of us old and cranky squaresoft fanboys arent willing to splurge in the same way when this genre has so many better alternatives AND square Enix have taken a name we loved and used it as a brand loyalty exercise to live of mediocre games for the best part of ten years now. If you didin’t see the beta for yourself, would you trust the name again?

    • Picoman

      You know every well that that orderly queue formed due to a quest bug in a Beta. The rest of the post? Everyone likes what they like i guess. ^^

    • Kaelesta

      While I agree that FF genre has pretty much gone down hill since FF8. I don’t agree that FF14RR is bad. I am also a Beta tester and I can say it is very similar to other mmo’s out there, but It is by far better than SWTOR.. The world is rich and great to look at. It is THE most beautiful world I have seen in any MMO. The gameplay is like most MMO’s so that is a valid point but to compare it to SWTOR is just not giving it a fair mark to compare.

      • Bill Bellamy

        That’s your opinion, and I happen to disagree with it. SWTOR has better and more structured gameplay than FFXIV for one thing. The classes actually feel different in SWTOR, unlike FFIXIV where you have the standard series of spammable quickbar actions or spells. No character has a ‘cover’ ability, or stealth, or any of the other unique little things that made playing different classes in SWTOR actually rewarding.

        At least try and compare items on their technical merits and not how much the visuals dazzle the fuck out of your eyes.

        All the polygons in the universe aren’t going to elevate FFXIV’s gameplay above bog-standard mmo formulae.

        • Ken

          Dude, SWTOR is absolutely a mass of sub-par MMO ideals meshed into yet another Star Wars game, hence why it faltered and turned F2P.
          Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is literally a FINAL FANTASY MMO. If you like Final Fantasy and find other MMO’s to be getting old, try it.
          JESUS, they even said it was targeting a smaller fanbase this time around; hence the sub fee.
          I love Final Fantasy, I’m bored of WoW and GW2; so I will jump on this (Been playing Beta Phase 3 like crazy).
          The visuals ARE dazzling and hey guess what SO IS THE STORY; oh hey GUESS WHAT WHAT, SO is the battle system (once you figure out it has tactical merit, I swear you would change your short-sighted opinion)
          …and this:
          “All the polygons in the universe aren’t going to elevate FFXIV’s gameplay above bog-standard mmo formulae.”
          Bog-Standard MMO Formula = SWTOR
          It makes me laugh to even have to clarify this for you.
          Unless you are a Final Fantasy fan; shut up and go back to playing EA’s leftovers…

    • FFXIVgamer

      Seeing as how they have followed up on their promises so far, specially regarding ARR, I trust SE more than any gaming company out there.
      You dont see other companies stand up and publicly apologize to their fans when they have done a mistake, like they did twice with FFXIV 1.0

      Blizzard and the hugely disappointing and launch mess of Diablo 3, no improvements made, no apologizes for people whos waited over a decade for the game.

      EA games with constant poor releases, which people buys like mindless drones. Killing off great game developers like Bullfrog and Westwood.

      There isnt much you can do to make a MMO look completly different from another MMO, but Yoshida has taken features that works and people like, and given it a Final Fantasy feel to them.

      I have played most MMOs out there, WOW 6 years, SWtor 6months, Tera months, GW2 7months, Aion 2months, Rift 5 months.

      NONE of them gave me that fun feeling playing their games. ARR features tons of memorable songs, characters and locations that people of older FF games are greatly fond of.

      Like Cid, Biggs, Wedge, all the primals Ifrit, Shiva, Carbuncle etc

      FFXIV ARR is a Final Fantasy fanservice MMO, and I am excited for it to finally be launched

      AND you say the game is bad, and you are a beta tester. Please describe what you found about ARR that was so bad. In details if you can

  • Light Yagami

    What does Square Enix have to do to get people to stop eating their shit? If they had any respect for their patrons, this is the game that would have been released at launch.

    • FFXIVgamer

      They have publicly apologized twice to their customers for delivering a sub standard game, and promised they would fix the game, which they have. I can bet than any other gaming company other than SquareEnix would just have let their game that did poorly simply die and move on. Blizzard and Diablo 3 comes to mind. Over a year since launch, and game still hasnt been improved one bit. I was more disappointed over D3, than XIV1.0

  • JJversion1

    I sincerely hope that they can make the Sub thing work, we’ll see… For some games, like WoW, it does, however for others, like GW2, the P2P route works and for others, like Swtor, the F2P model works best. I think that it all just depends on the game and how the developer is able get the game to best fit which ever mold it can. I wish them the best of luck, I hope it works out for them. I may try out the game myself, I’m a fan of the FF series and am genuinely interested in this revamp.

  • Trollbelly

    You people are insane. Crying over a sub, when are you guys going to realize sub based mmo’s actually cost less then f2p games. Unless you literally play f2p games without spending one cent and quit the second you get to the restriction wall.

    I’m very happy that ff14 is going to be p2p. I won’t have to worry about some god damn cash shop sucking up all the future development and the rush of players then the crash and burn once all the f2p nomads move onto their next “ooh shiny” game.

    A small community is what SE is expecting and have already said they will be fine with that. I really hope f2p burns out in the new few years and all the companies that make pile of shit mmo’s (ea, cryptic, adventurine, ncsoft, etc…) either go under, ditch the genre completely, or actually release full games.

    • Midge

      My Hero! Give this man a metal!

  • NewNCSoftFan

    It’s the sheer principle of the matter. They are holding future MMO’ers responsible for their mistakes. It has very little to do with the actual amount, but just the fact there is an amount to be asked. They have no right and are in no position to ask you to buy a game, then pay for the game, then buy expansions, and continue to pay for the game.

    First, you will buy a disc/download (When in fact if I should have to pay to play, that download should be free, paying for a physical copy should be an option, not a requirement)

    Then, you will pay a monthly fee to continue playing, what does that monthly fee go towards? Well a large number of you suggest, development, improvements, additions, events, expansions, ect…

    Lets just forget the fact that those options should be in the purchase price and move on the to the fact that they will charge you for the expansion’s downloadable content, so you’re paying for them to develop the content, then you have to pay for the content itself.

    If you buy FFXIV, you are paying for their mistakes (Unless you honestly only intend to buy & play the game for the free 30Day period) Then you will pay them each month to make their first mistake worth-wile.

    Which is proved, if they wanted to charge you to buy the game, and then give you a 1year sub-free experience (Added content of substance would take near-as much time) That I could see, or let you pay for the expansions, as most would, but do you see those as options? no, you see a 1/20th of the Square-Enix Community (if they can even still be called a community) opting to pay for their mistakes.

    I’ve been a loyal fan of Square* & related products for 23 years, but I’m done with this. I’m so very disappointed when they had so many great chances too..

    • Ark

      I really don’t understand all this noise. If you wanna take the principle argument, then you should be angry at the world. Today’s world is full of shit like this. Cable, phone, gym memberships, fine print and take it or leave it bullshit. That’s the point thou, you have a choice, you can chose not to play this game because you feel it is not fair. They also have a choice wether to charge or not. I choose to pay. See, everyone gets to choose. Seems fair to me. End of the discussion.

  • Drewe

    To the NCsoft fan below saying and I quote, “They have no right and are in no position to ask you to buy a game, then pay for the game, then buy expansions, and continue to pay for the game.”

    LOL How dare they charge us monthly subscriptions for providing a service! with your logic, shouldn’t we be outraged at having to buy phones and having phone subcriptions on top of that? We should be equally mad at our cable bills having to buy a set-top box and having to pay monthly bills.

    I will pay a sub every month even if it only gets Yoshi P gets a cup of coffee each month. God knows he needs it. SE thru Yoshi P and crew has more than redeemed themselves in my opinion and I will gladly support them.

    I am happy this is going to be a sub-based game.

    • Flubber

      Actually, I see no common ground between buying a game & getting the intended services the game should come with. When you buy a phone for example, if you buy the plan, the phone is free, top-end phones come at a vastly discounted rate. When you order Cable and pay for the channels you are given options to what you want to watch, you also don’t have to pay for the actual CABLE connection, then pay a monthly fee, you just order the package for free & pay a monthly fee. If you’re going to argue someone’s views you should at least come at them from a respectable standpoint. I see his justification for not wanting a Monthly Sub-Fee, why should you be expected to buy a game then pay for it month to month, in the long run, a yearly price to pay is going to be around $180 (if you pay month to month) Asking to not have to pay $40 for the physical disc isn’t unreasonable.

      • thelordymir

        For cable you pay for a STB, you also pay for multiple channels you most likely will never use, also 9 times out of 10 for both cable AND phone you must sign a contract to keep paying, that contract with the phone company means you can’t drop out without paying some sort of fee and dictates other special uses with how much data or phone time you can use before being charged more. $40 for a disc is not that much, considering that most games are now $60 easily? That’s about 1-4 hrs of work depending on your job and payscale, which is only 1/2 a day if you’re full time or maybe a single full day if parttime… if you don’t have a job, that’s about 2 lawns being mowed. I mean they redesigned the entire game from the ground up for the playerbase and you sit there with your hand out saying “Gimmie!” without wanting to pay them for their hardwork?

  • thelordymir

    @newncsoftfan:disqus Really? how dare they charge you a sub for a service they are giving you? How old are you exactly that you find the concept of giving out $10 a month for entertainment an appalling concept. That’s less then a single movie ticket. Did you even read Yoshi P’s justification for this? Not only does it push out content faster and give them a stable income to work from, but also most F2P games have horrible communities, terrible balance, horrid content development and issues that prevail for months on months w/o fixes because the devs fired 80% of their staff just so they could make some earnings.

    • USCG_Officer

      You’ve no valid argue points and to attack someone personally is petty and childish. So the reasonable question would be “how old are you?”.

      With that aside it’s not $10 a month, it’s $15. (you’re given the chance to pay for 6-Months at a time for a slightly discounted rate, you save $3 or so).

      I don’t think he was talking about F2P games either, Guildwars2 for example, you’re paying $60 for a game and expected to enjoy the services that come with it. I hardly call that F2P, as well as serveral F2P(once bought) games don’t have a single problem you listed.

      Using Yoshi’s own reasoning, (Assuming everyone only bought the Standard edition, which we know is unrealistic as a lot will want a Collectors Edition) He used the example of 400,000 people, selling a game a $40 each) that’s 16Million USD. This isn’t including the several other locations they will be hosting this game, Japan, Euro/NA (with access available to Canada, S.Asia, ect..) It stands to reason with their own projected earnings they will stand to make. FFXIV First time around sold over 630,000 copies, and that’s projected to increase this time around with the re-vamping done. That’s over, another, 25Million USD, and that is based on the sole sales of just Standard Editions. So there stands to reason there will be a minimum of 800,000 people playing FFXIV (Sub-Fee or otherwise) That’s over 144 Million USD a year. With the assumption not a single person would buy the game after launch, which is again, unrealistic.

      So do I personally belief they should be free to play? No. However do I think they are deserving of a Monthly sub-fee, absolutely. Will I play this game? no. Because I don’t believe $180 a year from me for this is worth it, That’s the cost of more then three brand new games every year that I “enjoy” the same content, only to have to buy new additions that I’ve been paying for them to develop.

      I see NCSofts point. Why should I have to pay you to develop a game, then pay you to sell it to me, then pay for the game, and on top of that pay you to keep the game running. When the time comes to add a new addition/expansion (That I’ve been paying you ever month to develop) I’ll have to pay to download & use it.

      does it seem right? Of course not. I agree, if I have to pay you $180 a month, what should I have to pay you for the actual download for? As well, why should I have to pre-order it (or buy a collectors edition) just to start on an even playing field with everyone else? That seems unfair & unreasonable. -Although like I said, because of the way they handled this. I’ve already sold my FFXIV copy & have no intentions of buying ARR.

      • thelordymir

        $180 equates to 3 brand new console games. Said console games last roughly between 6-15 hours gameplay time not counting replay-ability. That’s 45hrs total for a year we’re talking about, or less then 2 days. This is not even counting in how much $$ you will spend on movies, going out to eat, hookers and blow or w/e your entertainment budget encompasses. If you don’t care for the game that’s fine, but to find fault in how little they charge per month is hilarious. I’ve no valid arguements yet I list why f2p games suffer and why Yoshi’s defense is justifiable. Like others have said you pay for cable, or internet or netflix or something as a monthly fee if you are over the age of 18 most likely, meaning you shell out cash for a service, a service that does not in return take that money to create better content for you.

  • Thomas Vu

    I kinda miss the monthly payment model…. I spent way less then I do now. For example, in WoW I spend $15 bucks a month + the occasional $50 for gold every 6 months. So in one years time that is $280. In GW2 I have spent on average of $40 bucks a month since release. In a year that will come out to $480. Both values don’t include the box price.

    But on the flip side, I really hate paying for a sub fee just to try a game that I end up hating. Like in SWTOR, I played that game for four months since it released and feel that the game experience i received wasn’t worth paying a sub fee for.

    So my conclusion from my experience, I believe more MMOs should come out with Tera’s payment model. F2P for those that wish to try the game but with an excellent sub based model once you have fallen in love with the game. FYI I don’t play Tera, I just really like their payment model

    • Luke Malcolm

      Ya I agree Thomas, people don’t realize that money adds up & you spend way more in F2P games than you do in P2P. Its a reason I call F2P the MMO Graveyeard. But when trying out a new MMO you do get the free 30 days, but for a returning player its more rough than.

      But also having the payment model like Tera helps prevent the game from ever going down the pay 2 win path. Games like SWTOR & Neverwinter are full on pay 2 win & Rift isn’t far from that path you can’t buy BiS gear now, you can buy a whole dungeon set, but who says it wont be in 4-6 months who says that the current BiS wont be available for purchase when there is new BiS gear, It can happen if Trion needs money.

      Pay 2 Play is a solid market, but its sad that its only contains 2 games (World of Wacraft & EvE) and soon 3 (Final Fantasy 14 ARR).

      • Thomas Vu

        Pay 2 Play is a solid market, especially if the company doesn’t expect to try to reach WoW status overnight. The problem with it is that there have been to many Pay 2 Play that produced poor results. AoC, WAR, SWTOR, etc.

        These games have all gone down the F2Ppathy because they either expected a higher financial gain from a poorly released product or they were just a poorly made product to begin with so they were forced to hope to entice whatever remaining players they had left into playing by turning into a F2P product.

        Now a days there are many MMO players who have become jaded due to the results of these failed projects and because of that the chances like a new game, such as FF14ARR, to come out with a P2P business model to succeed is pretty low.

        How many MMO players do you think SE is losing out due to MMO players looking at this payment model and telling themselves they won’t play it until it goes F2P, especially when there are some pretty decent F2P games out there. I have a feeling quite a lot… enough to garner a big loss for SE.

        In short, I expect this game to be F2P in the future. Possibly, even within 1-year of its release.

        • shaddix

          If you knew SE well, you would know this game will never go free to play….

        • Ken

          Thomas: You have a very uneducated opinion on SE marketing tactics. Despite the disappointments SE has made to it’s fans; they are doing more than well in the market.

          It’s laughable to say that any intelligent person would think that this game would ever go F2P…

    • AlteraMoontail

      I prefer the P2P model also. And if I feel a game is no longer worth the monthly sub, I will find another that does. Mine used to be WOW, but with all the changes over Cata-MoP, it’s not a game I like much anymore, and FFXIV ARR will be getting my 9.99usd a month instead.

      Thank you SE for the lifetime discount on subfee I got simply for P2P your 1.0 version that I also enjoyed ;)

      • MoogleStiltzkin


        i’ve abstained from subscription models after playing wow for 3+ years.

        the content is the same, except for the occasional holiday events (which i find useless). And every few years expansion packs, which you still have to pay for separately, although you’ve been paying for a monthly subscription for all those years.

        If you see the long term implications, the costs of playing the game is very expensive.

        i’m in the FFXIV beta, but the quality does not stand out over other f2p mmo’s like Tera. It’s just different, but i don’t see anything so far that screams it’s necessary better, just different.

  • Dutstorm

    OK I’ve never posted on gb before but this topic makes me so angry. If you cant pay 13 bucks a MONTH for a game then guess what princess you should spend your time trying to your life together and not worry about a video games.

    • Reshish

      Just because someone ‘can’ afford something doesn’t mean they ‘should’ buy it, there’s no shame in contemplating and comparing possible purchases before making a decision, no matter the price tag involved – some people even derive pleasure in finding the best deal possible.
      Perhaps your time would be better spent avoiding topics that make you ‘so angry’, rather than dwelling on them… and posting on them?

  • DuffMcD

    I feel the sub will work at this moment in time for FFXIV due to the fanbase and the current trend towards F2P for most other games. The average gamer can afford $15 a month when it is the only game they are playing that is charging a sub, while still playing F2P on the side and shelling out $5+ a month on cash shops such as Neverwinter, and putting other games like GW2 on hold that they already paid for upfront and don’t charge a Sub. If the next gen of MMORPGs in the same genre all start charging a Sub that is when there will be a problem for FFXIV. I hardly think most gamers are going to spend $60+ a month on Subs for games they MIGHT play off and on, in addition to all theF2P cash shops, when they could be buying an entirely new single player RPG or Strategy game in addition to their main Sub MMO game and their various F2P games. Currently I don’t see much competition for this niche market. Also, it will be easier to transition to F2P later if needed rather than the other way around. Forgive me if I am way off target but this is a great game that has potential and a Sub will bring so much more to it.

    • Alestaos

      And Yoshi has stated that the fact he intends to push out major content patches before expansions and such. He once stated they would be in a 6 week period with the smaller ones inbetween. Alot of people bash his method for them having to pay a sub yet if they do the math there spending way more in ftp and b2p games and instance of this is a group of guild members from guild wars 2 have spent at estimate £520-1,000+ on gems since the game has launched. Im not saying thats everyone amount but ppl do spend more in ANY ftp game than a sub. Not saying FTP/B2P is bad i play gw2 but sometimes i wish they would open their eyes. P2P is always associated as WoW area when actually theres many successful still running games on the model like FFXI. All im saying is give it a chance Yoshi isnt Blizzard hes Square and hes done amazing work on FFXIV and yes im in the beta abd those that derail the beta make constructive feedback topics. You would be surprised what they fix and listen too. Also the beta has blocker content and is still changing. At least hes realistic about his goals and doesnt want to overthrow any game. And why cant you play FTP game and this one. I will :) FFXIV and GW2 without as much Cash shop :P

      And i was just adding to your post because i agreed with you xD

  • Brandon Scott Smith

    F*** you people i have a close friend who loves FF but now youthere gonna have a monthly subscriptions F*** this!

    • Alestaos

      First off that comes off as really imature, secondaly he can save up. Put something aside each week etc. If he gets an allowance of his parents why doesnt he keep some buy each time he will have enough. Then theres paper rounds/tutoring etc. Also before ARR was announced it was a sub. It launched as a sub and it was taken off till they felt it deserved a sub which was 1.23. And they subbed till they took servers offline in preparation for this basically new game. The point is your friend loves FF thats great but ever since the original had been announced it was always going subbed. So dont start say “now there gonna have a monthly” its always been there. And FF are releasing HD remakes and 13-3 next year not like there telling him to buy it.

    • ELminister

      WTF are you crying about? 15$ a month is not a big deal. Go find a job you lazy crybaby…

  • Chewy

    I really enjoy Final Fantasy, I have played FF7, 9, 10, 12 and 13, really enjoyed them all except FF13 it was a great dissapointment but when I heard of final fantasy XIV subscription it really put me off the game, I would rather pay twice the price or triple for the game but subscriptions to a game which I probably won’t get the chance to play all the time during the month is total bs.

  • Bobbit

    Make it cheaper!

  • Kurokku

    I’m glad its pay to play. free to play games are always lower quality in every way. game play and community. I played FFXI for 8 year and the community was what made it amazing I hope XIV:ARR has the same type of community.

    • cheesecracker

      Not all F2P are low quality, both guild wars and guild wars 2 have been great and constantly updating games with frequent updates and great stories along with fun mechanics.

  • Narq

    I have no issues with either model. There are good and bad things to be said on both sides (as these comments prove). I simply like variety and I play far too many games to be paying monthly subs for them all. With F2P, I can play a little of this one and a little of that one, while only paying for items that I really want. Just three or four subs and you’re looking at $50-60/month. I do fine financially and that’s still more than I am willing to spend just to keep my accounts active. I don’t play any one game enough in a month to justify the monthly fee.

    For all it’s worth, I wish FFXIV all the best. It looks like a beautifully designed game. I hope all you subscribers have fun and that the game survives the saturated marketplace. It is indeed an embarrassment of riches for us MMO players! What a First World problem we have here.

  • Reshish

    I feel one big factor in FF14’s favor is that (for PC at least) they made the base game very cheap.
    I picked up my copy from GMG for only $22.50 which considering it includes a free month ($15) made the actual game only $7.50 for me, so even if I only play for a month and never touch the game again, I’m not exactly breaking the bank like I would be with other MMOs – GW2 ($60), WoW ($40 for each expansion O.O!) etc.
    I don’t know if I’ll be still playing (and paying) in 4 months time, but if I am then it’s a game worth playing and if I’m not, then It’d still have been cheaper than getting GW2 (and finding out I don’t enjoy it)

    • Robert Siegrist

      For most people that like MMOs, GW2 was def worth 60$. And once they bring in raids (which they plan on), and everyone starts playing again for free, it’ll be even more worth it.

      • starscream


  • Unhappy Ginger

    I have played nearly every Final Fantasy title. It is unfortunate that I will not be adding this one to my collection, completely due to the monthly fee. It has been said many ways already how this is unfair and wrong, such as paying for upgrades/events twice (once in the monthly fee and again in the expansion pack). I also wanted to state that, unlike what many people have suggested, monthly subscriptions for mmo’s are not the same as paying for a wireless plan. When you pay for a wireless plan, you are paying for the use of the company’s data/connection. You are already paying for the internet, I mean, its not the game company’s internet… so why would you pay for a mmo monthly when you aren’t getting anything? You already bought the game, and if you want upgrades/expansions, you will pay for them. Why force people to pay for no services and goods, or force them to pay for the same good/service twice? GW2 seems to be doing just fine without monthly subscriptions, they have a new update with new content every month and I HAVE YET TO PAY FOR IT EVEN ONCE, let alone twice like this game wants you to. And for those who say Free to Play games actually will cost more than monthly subscription ones, I say that with even a modicum of self restraint this proves to be incorrect on every level.(no pun intended). A final comparison: $60 for GW2 for life + $60 for massive add-on’s about once every 1-2 years < $40-$70 for initial game + $12-$15 every MONTH + $60 content updates once every 1-2 years.

    • AzureKite13

      F2P ares what is known as P2W, because you pay to be better, those who cant pay for the good items cant be good and get beat by everyone who pays. P2P. doesnt have that problem

      • Random Passerby

        Anything purchasable from the GW2 gem store that can effect your gameplay does not work in any PVP and it specifically warns you that the various boosters will be disabled and wasted if taken into a PVP or WVW area. I’ve also personally never played a F2P game that the cash shop was much more than place to buy armor or weapon skins with no in game benefit or simple in game gimmicky toys for fun. Now there are NUMEROUS mass produced, grind fests that come out of korea that fit your description of of a F2P/P2W.

    • starscream

      You are paying their wages. I guess they should update ffxiv for free without pay for that labor

    • Tyler Lewis

      I hope you realize what a moron you are. Sub fees are used to pay the employees who constantly work patching the game to add content, to pay for the dedicated servers they have to build, maintain and pay for. Not only that but they have added damn near an expansions worth of content via patches in just over 4 months and have plans to continue to do so and no plans for an expansion any time soon. So every 4 months an expansions worth of content..basically meaning you’re just paying the equivalent of how much an expansion to any game is every 4 months. Get your facts straight do some research and then go cry in a corner when your troll ass realizes its wrong.

      • Tyler Lewis

        PS some FF fan you are.

  • Sedna

    I wouldn’t mind a subscription, a cheaper one. Now 15 euros/dollars a month is totally insane in my opinion

  • Not so fast Yoshi P

    Yoshi P, “High budget games” typically are playable. Yours, currently ISN’T. Maybe when you fix your ‘nobody can log in’ issues that you should have been prepared for seeing as this is the re-launch of a failed past attempt, you can call this classy things like a “high budget game”. As for now, it’s a 1017, 2002, 9000, 10102 error-filled monstrosity. I would love to hear why people should pay a monthly subscription for a game that for the last week and a half has been sparsely accessible to nearly all of the player base.

    • starscream

      It really wasn’t that bad.. look where we are today.. I dont even remember the 3 or 4 times I got 1017 :)

  • Marshallaw

    Didn’t this same company make Final Fantasy XI? A game that was the best MMO ever made? (until they began to destroy it with updates that started about 4-5 years into it’s release, but I digress). How could their first attempt be a huge success and then they can’t even make their second and third attempts work right? I get the feeling that their current team is filled with morons, kinda like the team behind Lucas’ recent Star Wars disasters (I II and III). I really would like another FFXI experience, but I don’t see it happening anytime soon, if ever.

  • Kris Kwick

    Sub is better than f2p i think since f2p you buy the game in pieces that is like playing a console without the plugs and av and controllers sub gives it all at once like a console does with a box so now would you really defend f2p after this explanation of why sub is better

  • nathan madden

    Ffxiv is not worth the sub fee that is charged for it simply because the content and story are not there. Compare it to ffxi a game that has been out for a number of years has had the content since a year after its launch in 2001. And even before rise of the Zilart came out there was 2 continents you could visit and a few jobs you could level. I paid to play ffxiv for 3 months and got bored of it.