Dragon Age Lead Writer Calls Bioware Forums "Increasingly Toxic"


Written by: (@magickmann1) | January 10, 2013 3:00 pm

Dragon Age Lead Writer Calls Bioware Forums "Increasingly Toxic"
16 Comments

BioWare Forums Negativity Causes Lead Writer to Avoid Them

Writing a good story is difficult. Writing a good story and then subjecting your work to the scrutiny of the masses has got to be much worse. David Gaider, lead writer for Dragon Age, appears to agree. In a recent blog post, Gaider responded to a fan worried that the negative comments on the BioWare forums were being perceived as the “opinion of the masses.” Gaider detailed his thoughts on the BSN, BioWare Social Network, and his view was almost as negative as some of the comments found there. Included in his thoughts was an admission that he doesn’t visit the BioWare forums all that much right now and that the feedback given there is making the BioWare forums “Increasingly Toxic”.

Gaider explained:

“I tend to largely avoid [the BioWare forums] these days, myself. Why? Because spending too much time there starts to make me feel negative—not just about the games we make, but about myself and life in general. That’s not a good feeling to have. I’m sure there are folks there who would bristle at that comment, suggesting that all negative feedback is justifiable and that ignoring it is the equivalent of us sticking our heads in the sand. How will we ever improve unless we listen to their scolding and take our lumps like good little developers? That is, of course, ignoring the idea that we haven’t already digested a mountain of feedback—both positive and negative—and there’s really only so much of it you can take.”

Gaider also went on to explain that there are some very positive discussions that come out of the BioWare forums and he is sure that most internet forums have some negativity to them, but lately the BioWare forums themselves seem to be overwhelmed with negativity. The full blog post is really worth a read as it gives a rare glimpse of  the impact of our feedback on those that create some of the titles we all love playing.

What do you think? Should the creatives behind a project pay attention to all feedback for do you agree with Gaider that there is a point where enough is enough? Leave your comments below!


  • http://twitter.com/tirelth Amber Howdeshell

    Given the sheer amount of vitriol that exists on the BSN today, I certainly can’t blame him for avoiding it. I understand the current frustrations with Bioware, but a lot of the people on those forums take it way too far.

  • http://twitter.com/Amusekus Charlie Grim

    I totally agree that there is a point where too much is too much.  You look at some official game forums and even the community leads start getting nasty cause they can only handle so much of how people portray themselves on those forums.  Dealing with your customers is never an easy task, I mean the only thing I can think of is having people that can successful gather the good and bad information in forums and give the game developers the information they need or could use.  Which that is nothing new cause that goes on anyway.

  • http://twitter.com/gNoviere Noviere

    I don’t blame Gaider for spending less time there. I used to frequent the old Bioware forums, and then the BSN… But once DA2 was announced and details started coming, things went downhill very quickly. When DA2 was released, I pretty much stopped going there at all. I’m sure ME3 only made it worse.

    Since DA3 was announced, I’ve been spending more time there… It’s better than it was 6 months ago. But every thread usually devolves into some argument amount DAO vs DA2. 

  • Deacon1979

     Not sure why but it seems like the Internet gaming community have completely turned on bioware over the past 18 months, maybe its because of the EA buy out

    Take the ME3 ending, after the uproar I was expecting the game to be complete toss, but its still a great addition to a great series. Even the ending wasn’t that bad if you ignore your companions magically appearing on your ship in mid mass effect jump (altho thats since been rectified in the extended cut). It was just a massive over reaction while other story based games with equally “weak” (if not weaker) endings (heavy rain, witcher 2, ac3, etc) don’t even get a mild whine

    It really isn’t surprising at all that they tune it out after a while, if they didn’t it would drive you mad i think

    • Kagitaar

      When you come out and say, everything you do will change the ending, that there will be no A, B, and C, then come out with A, B, and C, people are going to be pissed. Personally, when I beat it, I just sat there staring for a few minutes, wondering what had just happened. 

      I will say that ME3 was a good game, it had it’s flaws (every annoying reaper boss fight, that stupid cyborg ninja) but overall was a decent end to the series. It’s just when you put this much time and care into a game, are promised that that care would be rewarded, then forced into a terrible ending, you bet people will be soured to the whole thing. I had planned to go through from 1 again to do everything I wanted right, and that nonsensical and frankly insulting ending made me stop caring.

  • Oldschoolremag

    Perhaps they should focus on making great games again. Fanboys are very good at avoiding the truth, but its clear something has gone very wrong at Bioware. DA 2, the ending to ME 3, the slow motion trainwreck that is Swtor. That’s a lot of red meat to feed the trolls.

  • http://twitter.com/DaveyDiablo Davey Diablo

    I genuinely don’t know what the guy expects. You can’t foster a (fanatically) loyal fan-base, then let the quality of your product diminish whilst still expecting them to be sing your praises. 
    I feel he’s living in a bit of a dream world here, and seems to be laying all of the blame at the consumer’s feet.
    Make better products and your feedback will be better.

  • theunwarshed

    I have to agree with Davey Diablo, at some point the doctors just phoned it all in and that kind of leadership in an organization is infectious and, ultimately, destructive.  How else can you explain different studios, working on different games, suddenly plummeting, so obviously, in quality and effort.  it can’t be lack of talent because many of the people responsible for working on these low quality games were the same people that hit it out of the park in others (some that were direct precursors as in DAO and ME games). 

    Selling out to the Evil One (EA Games), a company that has destroyed more quality independent development studios than any other as far as I’m aware of, was probably the most obvious sign that the doctors had had enough.  

    I know it’s gotten ugly and we should all be better human beings and reign in our vitriol, but BW has earned the kind of blow back they’re experiencing right now.  They continue to make terrible management decisions with their games (SWTOR f2p anyone?) and obviously have either stuck their heads in the sand or are so arrogant that they can’t just come out and admit that the quality of their games have declined, they’re embarrassed as hell about it and promise to expend maximum effort to make things right by their loyal fans.

    Perhaps it is unfair to dish on this writer, after all most of the problems have to do with the lames driving this train wreck, but if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen!  As bad as the BW forums are, they don’t hold a candle to Blizzard’s.

    • http://www.scarlacs.com/ Scarla

      Well said. However rabid the fans may have become, it’s only a symptom. EA is the cancer.

  • Avaloner31

    I see nothing wrong with him or the company not taking any more feed back from their forums or even going there much at all. Being someone who reads gaming forums semi regually I know how negative and repetative many of them are. Its normally just walls of hate/negativity that could really get you down if you where making the game that the forum is centred on. The few positive posts are either quickly drowned out or devolve into hater vs fanboi wars. I would not think bad of them if they said that they don’t read the forums at all anymore or take feed back from them.

  • Jado Cast

    When you betray your fan base, and sell out to the asshats at EA, this is the reaction you are going to get.  They made bad decisions, and people reacted negatively.  Personally I don’t care if he ignores the forums or not.  BioWare has lost my respect and I will not buy their games.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/djlanders020 Dave Landers

    The problem is that 90% of the folks on forums believe that they have earthshakingly original ideas. They either don’t read the other posts or somehow imagine their wall of text to be the magic wand devs have been asking for.

    You know how people generally don’t like being nagged by their mothers, husbands, wives, bosses, etc? Imagine being nagged about the same crap thousands of times per day…

    (Note: That really was an earthshakingly original idea… so I’m not part of the 90% mentioned above…. right?)

  • http://twitter.com/cipero Matt Cipriano

    well he’s got some very valid points..personally I think the swtor forums are a sh*tstorm, and often find myself browsing them just to get a great show.

  • Kagitaar

    Well, they have earned that vitriol over the past few years. If they can pull together and make DA3 the best game that has come out of their company, maybe they can pull themselves out of the tailspin, but you can’t screw up all of your IPs this badly and not expect hate.

    Personally, those responsible for the narrative trash heap that is DA2 and ME3′s ending deserve the scorn, maybe it will spur them to not write such garbage.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rasmus.nielsen.75491 Rasmus Nielsen

    Considering ME 3, and SWTOR, I’m surprised that they don’t realize the fact that it’s their own fucking faults for releasing such garbage in the first place.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RV6EHBFS4DM623D34OZQDUCGK4 Alex

    Bioware is seriously lacking in quality communication skills. For SWTOR, they don’t respond to the player outcry for different types of game play and instead continue to chart out the same course for the game, only in Free-to-Play mode. MMO’s require much more communication between developers and players than other types of games, since the players perceive themselves as clients as opposed to one time customers. Bioware didn’t understand this going in and is now paying for it as the rage of the masses breaks through the metaphorical dam.

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