The Republic Ep111: SWTOR's F2P Model Gamebreaking?

http://www.facebook.com/jason.hightower.374 Jason Hightower

Yes, yes, and yes. Server shutdown in 12 months.

http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Neish/513929618 James Neish

ha I give it 6 months. Shame…

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=714772938 Mark Ryan Strong

A clearly desperate attempt by a greedy company to try and make up their losses for this front heavy MMO. I played SWTOR for a year in good faith and they did not return that good faith with production. Instead top developers left in droves and you have this pathetic attempt at F2P as the end result of that lack of vision.

In the past I have done my best to defend them against the obvious trolling when they were seriously attempting to fix issues in the game. However, this dictates to me clearly that they have given up on quality content and are just in damage control mode from here on in. The idea behind the game was solid but they did not deliver the content to go with that idea. Any further coverage of this game will have to chalk up to train wreck journalism. The only question now is how far they are going to ride this thing down into the sewage before mercifully killing it off.

http://www.facebook.com/mike.manco Mike Manco

Greedy? really what you want the whole game for free? LOTR mass roadblock doing well.. Sub up if you want to do everything really, but i have np with them making money isn’t this what there in biz for? This show feelz like swtor bash hour. Not trying to be a jack but really. Log on to GW2 in the daytime, pretty dead but yet we jackin that game up like no other.. Really?
- http://www.facebook.com/people/John-R-White/100000469008732 John R White
  
  at least lotro makes you pay for their content once, and you get to choose what you want to do. if you dont want to go to evendim you dont have to buy the quest pack. honestly, if SWTOR would use LOTRO’s F2P model id prefer it actually. buy pvp warzones and get them permanently from there, dont make me to sub 15 a month or buy a weekly pass to play warzones thats retarded.
  - theunwarshed
    
    exactly, the mmo sub was always the biggest scam in gaming. any other product i purchase i own for life, but with mmo sub games i’m cutoff from a product i already purchased. and don’t let the fanbois and BW/EA marketing rhetoric fool you into believing their mantra of creating a game equal to 8 single player rpg just because they have 8 class stories. 90% of the content is repeated over all of the classes from each faction. having said that, they obviously front load a lot more content than a typical single player rpg has in it, so settle on an initial purchase price that’s fair and commensurate with other games and what the market will determine as its true “value”.
    
    i bought the game and subbed for 6 mos, so i should have unlimited access to all content up to that point-forever. it’s fair to charge me for game content created after that point. GW2 is a great example of a b2p game. BW/EA isn’t embracing f2p or b2p with this model, they’re kicking and screaming and trying to do a sleight-of-hand routine in order to get the undiscerning to sub.
    
    the people driving this (short) bus are a bunch of tards and asshats. they’ve mismanaged this game from the start.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/CQUOGCSKU5Z6NUMDHMSDD5PHIE Keenan
  
  Really? Who would of thought that during the day time, the primary hours that people go to work, school, ect, that less people would be on. Astounding! As for the server population in GW2, first you need to realize the difference; GW2 is designed for you to play, leave if you want, then come back when there’s more content. That’s the way the game operates. So, even if you were right about people leaving “like a plague” (which 3 full servers and all others at high doesn’t seem to suggest) then it would be a moot point. People will return to GW2 whenever there is new content, because there’s no price barrier or such in the way of enjoying it. That on top of how seriously some people take the PvP in GW2 (Ask Ed Park how SWTOR’s going) ensure that PvPrs will always have something to do, and the PVErs can come back to find something new as well. ANet doesn’t need to milk you for your money just to survive like SWTOR does at this point. Oh, and btw, people are “jacking it up” because its universally recognized as a really good game.

http://twitter.com/murph2010 Niall Murphy

that idea comes from concept of football or baseball card packs…

Tommy_NOR

Have seen the first 20 min of this episode and the f2p sounds horrible.

Not even sure if i want to try it out again

http://www.facebook.com/rasmus.nielsen.75491 Rasmus Nielsen

Basically, they’re just taking all the worst ideas from other F2P games, and cobbling them onto their F2P. -sighs.- I was planning on returning to SWTOR with F2P and support them as I did with GW2, but this…-sighs.- No, done with BioWare and SWTOR.

http://www.facebook.com/ntntower Thien Nguyen

Oh man, those F2P restrictions are completely ridiculous. I wanted to try SWTOR when it went F2P but listening to this was really discouraging. Look at Aion F2P PLEASE. I bought Aion on launch and didn’t sub after the first month.

When Aion went F2P I tried it again and had quite a bit of fun coming back. I threw 15 dollars at them within a week of having fun. Seriously, these people have to realize *warning caps* PEOPLE ARE ONLY GOING TO PAY CAUSE THEY’RE HAVING A GOOD TIME.

http://twitter.com/Fursnake Andrew Witt

Gamebreaking? Hardly. Unless of course one thinks F2P is anything other than a method to get people to sub to the game.I have never thought of F2P as anything other than a gameplay trial with no defined end, just a lot of restrictions as to how much of the game one can experience without paying any money for it. F2P should be restrictive, that’s how it works. No box fee, you’re not paying a sub fee, why does anyone think they should get more than they are getting with F2P? What pisses me off about F2P is that one doesn’t even have to pay the box/game fee of $50 or $60 that people pay when the game first comes out. The game essentially costs the price of one month’s sub now.

Also, I am not a SWTOR or F2P fanboi. I got bored with SWTOR in less than 6 months and the F2P doesn’t make me want to come back. Nor do any of the changes to the game, which just add to the gear grind and silly ass cosmetics. I don’t see the F2P bringing in a whole lot of new paying players either. Is SWTOR’s F2P too restrictive? In comparison to other F2P models…yes. But F2P should be restrictive like it or not. But then again sub fees at $10-$15 a month are ridiculous too. Sub fees should be about $5-$7 a month.

http://twitter.com/Zax19taken Zax19

Huh, so it’s even more obnoxious than LOTRO? I might not play it at all…

http://www.facebook.com/yomanation Dennis Grigoropoulos

In my humble opinion: Even if they aren’t nickel and dime-ing currently, they eventually will. Let’s be honest here. SW:TOR was not the success story EA would like it to be and the game will soon be operated by a skeleton crew, to minimize costs, and they will be making content (mostly mall items) for the niche audience (‘whales’) that still pay for it. The rest will probably find the restrictions acceptable enough to at least check out the stories. PvP and endgame PvE are nothing to write home about anyway so very few people would actually subscribe for those.

http://twitter.com/HallusH HallusH

pretty sure no one will waste the time to try the game if they haven’t done it before this “f2p” even for the story stuff. this kidan smells more than the day 1 ME3 dlc which was 90% of the story of the whole series. r.i.p bioware logic

Marc Allen

Buy a Quickslot bar? Hahaha…yeah no. Thought about giving it a shot and maybe subbing. Think ill pass and stick with Planetside 2. Im not being nickle and dimed there.

http://twitter.com/TheFeyLife Fey

I thought Bioware was good at marketing, this is ridiculous.

http://www.facebook.com/yomanation Dennis Grigoropoulos

Bioware doesn’t exist anymore other than the brand name, I suppose you’re talking about EA?

Hicks64

On a positive note, chat was hilarious “suggesting” other charges they can come up with. Like $15 for a HD Texture Pack, 25 cents to respawn, etc.

Marc Allen

Yeah they shouldnt be giving Bioware ideas lol…the way things are sounding with this F2P model i wouldnt throw those things out of the window lol
http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

It really was, it has turned into a meta game figuring out how to save SWTOR.

deathscythe

Just to respond to the whiners here – yes, some of the restrictions are pretty annoying (quickslots being the foremost, imo), but the random pack approach seems like a sensible business strategy to me. If everyone could purchase the best stuff (the Nihilus mask, the Throne mount, the special weapon models etc.) right away, they would, and the items would quickly lose uniqueness (and thus appeal) because everyone and their grampas would have them. As a result, they would have to come up with new stuff very frequently or face dry spells in cash shop activity. This way, the items are going to stay unique (and the packs will stay in demand) for much longer, and their overall profit will be incomparably greater.

Also, Larry’s math with expertise is way off, afaik – as things are, 1200 expertise makes for cca 25% outgoing damage bonus, 18% incoming damage reduction and 14% outgoing healing bonus, so 80 expertise should make for a pretty negligible difference, especially since the 40-something PvP weapons (that have been in the game for ages) have some 30 or so expertise built-in as well.

http://www.facebook.com/Jamandos Joshua Lee

Well it’s EA.. so yea, you’re dancing with the devil.

http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

I’m saying EA is going to cancel this f2p model attempt and start designing a new payment model from scratch. We will not see any significant change in SWTOR payment model until the middle of next year.

http://twitter.com/kirzanSix Michael Coulombe

I like to think Turbine’s the first Western dev (and only) to make a massive success with its F2P model. That being said, I wish other devs/publishers would stop focusing on the “We doubled (tripled?) our benefits!” and more on the ACTUAL model, because that’s what’s important.

No matter the model, it will always be a cash cow. You’ll always (seemingly) spend a lot for little. The reason why Turbine’s is so good, is that you get ACCOUNT WIDE unlocks. How can they give so much permanent stuff to people? Easy! They take their lifetime sub’s value, and split all the content minus expansions evenly across unlocks. So, ultimately, if you buy everything, it’s roughly the same as the old lifetime sub. Where it truly shines, is the amount of “double cash” events they have and how much you can actually get, for all your toons, for so little.

If the F2P market wants to evolve, they have to STOP trying to find intricate mechanics and charge for odd things. And actually look at the past, look at WORKING F2P models, and straight up copy them. Because that’s what people want. Paying money for (potentially) temporary things like character bound crap is bad.

Tomi Turku

I was about to get back to the old republic when the “free-to-play” hits, but after getting some new info from this episode I’m seriously reconsidering. Sounds to me like it would be more of a pain to play it than a pleasure, with a low credit cap and the game telling you to spend money at every turn. Hope a lot changes for the better…

http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave

Like i said what i see happening is a huge surge at f2p launch then everyones gonna get to anoyed and frustrated and acting how gary them are and there just gonna leave go to gw2 or other better more reasonable f2p games that let you have more then 1 bar lol.

Glad people are really getting a birds eye view of incompetent and how stupid EA and whats left of the bioware staff are.

Im going to be surpised if swtor is around in 2013.

http://twitter.com/ChadMCowder Chad Cowder

Wonder what the Disney deal does to SWOTR down the road….

http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

Disney will simply keep cashing the checks from EA. Not sure what company would attempt to build a MMO around Star Wars after this fiasco.

The question will be, when will EA say the royalty payments to Disney doesn’t make business sense and shut down the game?

http://www.facebook.com/stradus.woods Stradus Woods

EA acts like going FTP is going to fix there game <.< there crazy.

scottsummer

It puzzles me how EA is completely disconnected with their fanbase, they are literally delusional at this point.
They have/had all the money in the world, they should had hire someone like ED who truly know the MMO genre and let them make the decision, not those short sighted money grabbing bastards .

http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave

I agree also id like to add showcasing a group finder and custom ui as “new content” and james ohlen not knowing the difference between game content and features is concerning to say the least. Then you have damion schubert with his legacy is our best stuff” comment so here you have a bunch of highly incompetent people who have proven beyond a doubt that they dont understand what a mmo is then to top it off you have james ohlen saying he has the best pvp team when swtor has the worst pvp lolz.

So like i said youll see a surge at f2p launch then bunch of people quitting a free game out of frustration and incompetence on EA/biowares part.

I hope disney shuts down swtor personally and re makes it with a different engine and re launches it and apoligizes for the former version and give all of us 6 months free play time for a better version on a better engine (i doubt it though)

http://www.facebook.com/rob.andrewz Rob AndreWz

wow I agree with Gary on this one, horrific F2P model absolutely absurd. It was awkward watching Larry and Justin try to justify it.

Passio1

The best bit was seeing episode 1 of The Republic after and the excitement Gary had for this game. I was also really excited for this game and i enjoyed the levelling experience which until Guild wars 2 was the best i`d ever played.
The end game was just shabby and the support for the community was terrible to the extent that so many of my friends left this game due to things like boss encounters being bugged for months on end, that the game was not enjoyable any more for me. I unsubbed when they left people to rot on dead servers for WAY TOO LONG. This shows what happens when you get into bed with EA. I wish they would leave the other developers alone and stop trying to stick their fat f*&king fingers into every pie possible because they are making them all taste nasty. Gary knows too well that SoE`s Star Wars Galaxies was a shining example of what NOT TO do with an MMO audience, but EA are going to create the new benchmark with these F2P changes.The guys are spot on when they say that they have gone into full blown panic mode that they have essentially swallowed a load of Acid and gone mental with a price gun to the extent they are even pricing up the shelves the goods come on.

theunwarshed

I agree that one must choose their bed partners wisely, but let’s not absolve BW and the doctors of any and all responsibility. They were the ones who signed over their independent company to EA. What this suggests to me (and which later events solidified in my mind) is that the doctors sold out. Instead of getting out before becoming burnt out they essentially went ROAD and left their baby in the hands of an uncaring, seriously out of touch foster parent. You can see evidence of a lack of attention/passion leading up to and including the development of SWTOR in other BW games (DR2, ME3) and an over reliance on a once good reputation of solid game design and a strong ip.

I could forgive them for mmo noob mistakes (being a primarily single player rpg designer) but there was gross miscalculation, misdirection and mismanagement of SWTOR from start to finish. The game director is the single most responsible person when it comes to these failures and he still has a job. There is and has been so much dysfunction with this game that it seems BW/EA are either incredibly inept or crazy (perhaps a little of both).

Red_Leviathan

I spent $160 AUD/$166.20 USD on the Star Trek Online ‘lock boxs’ which are the same thing as these ‘cartel packs. they made no mention of how rare their jem’hadar ship was and I never got one nor did many people who spent more than I. It was worked out through math that you had to spend something like $170-200 USD to even get a decent chance at the ship.

Long story short: I will never buy ‘grab bags’/'lockboxs’/'cartel packs’ again.

http://www.facebook.com/davidallmighty David Cohen

When Ed left the show it was left with 2 fan boys, and even with the obviously horrible F2P plans they cannot be anything more then fanboys and defend it. It is less about the news of SWTOR and more about laughing at these two fan boys that keeps the show entertaining. It is sad really. I love SW and most of the entertainment it supplies be it movies, games and TV, but you cannot say with a straight face that this F2P plan is good for peopel to choose it. Sub if you like the game or just pass. The story arcs you get for just buying the box are not even that amazing, and 1/2 of the content when leveling is not your story arc, but is filler you will have to play over and over if you plan on seeing multiple stories. there are better $15 games on Steam then what this game offers if you plan on not subbing to it.

protrolly

If the game not dead yet with this form of free to play it so will be what a joke. Better if they talk to arena net for tips.

http://www.facebook.com/marco.antelope Marco Antelope

Justin either got hit on the head with a huge rock, drank extra EA Kool Aid today, is just plain blind, or perhaps all three. Each week that goes by it gets harder and harder trying to listen to the garbage on this show. The only bright spot has been Gary.

Swtor’s F2P model is hands down the WORST of any western MMO out there now. I pre-ordered a collector’s edition, played the hell out of the game in the first few months (4 50 before a lot of people has 1), but then left for a number of reasons, I was really looking forward to coming back to check it out again when it went f2P. I can safely say that this does nothing but push me farther away.

EA is just giving people the finger with this model. Plain and simple. Gary nailed it when he said the sub based model didnt work, what makes them think pushing people to sub to get away from these horrid restrictions will work? Makes NO sense.

There are just too many better, less restrictive F2P MMOs out there now for people to play…ones that dont come with EA giving you the finger while asking you to bend over and grab your ankles.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave

go look at darth hater site LOL youll see why justin is the way he is with those carebears on there. You want kool aid drinkers thats the place. That site is nothing but Ea suckoffs and carebears with mouthsores lol.

Its carebears and stupid tools who keep swtor ruuning and making it what it is and thats a total pos. The game will never get better until EA is out of the picture and thats never going to happen.

You have the coo of EA saying that f2p is going to bring in 50 million new players lol. No game in history will ever bring 50 million players with a f2p model b/c the majority of people know that f2p means the game has failed horribly and its a last ditch effort to keep the game going.

Then you have the coo of EA saying the main reason people dont play swtor is b/c of the monthly fee in an exit poll when the majority people said the game isnt worth 15 bucks a month b/c the game doesnt have a lot of endgame content and thier not focused on it lol.

The sub fee was never the issue for most the problem was justifying 15 bucks a month when the idiot devs/gm’s dont focus on end game and tryed to focus the game on alt rerolling. How f’ng stupid can you be? If you can about story and alting so much your better off playing the old kotors or dragon age even making it the story part f2p is not going to keep people long term….

I hope swtor f’ng dies and embarrases EA even more then bieng named worst company of 2012
- http://www.facebook.com/marco.antelope Marco Antelope
  
  You know, just for shits and giggles I listened to the latest Darth Hater Podcast today. That guy Bourdeux…yeah, perfect example of ignorance to the issues.
  
  Swtor F2P model is just ass backwards. Paying for basic game features such as sprint at x level, rested xp, bank space, or the most insane one of all more than two hot bars is not just about the “you dont need this to play is you are just starting” issue, it the F’n principle behind it.
  
  EA’s F2P conversion of Swtor is turning out to be the gaming industry’s version of The War on Drugs. Seriously, that bad.
  
  Gary, do something to save this show man! Either shitcan it or get some new blood on here!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1260066056 Steven Diaz

I was going to go back with two friends, but after all this…. it isn’t going to happen. They can keep it. I cancelled a while back and figured I’d return when there was more content and a few changes, but this makes it pointless. This has gone beyond what an Asian mmo does, even in the pay to win area.

http://profile.yahoo.com/RAHQ6XOIAVJHM4ZOWRAPAODRQA Michael B

Jason Winter needs to make his next over/under poll “ The # of Republic episodes left before Gary shit-cans it for good”…..over/under for me is 12

http://twitter.com/Veldara Veldara

I would be cheering for Swtor because going f2p would be a definite shot in the arm for them, sadly they’re going about it the wrong way. When their current free trial has more freedom to access basic things than their current f2p model that it would make Nexon blush, Bioware is going overboard.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=522031132 Adam Rinkel

Instead of making a weekly pass for free-to-play operations, they should just allow them access to the first or second boss. Give people a taste of the operation and let them decide if they want to shell out money to finish it.

May need to change the way loot works if they do this, since people would just be able to pull all the mods out of the one piece that boss drops and throw it in all their other gear.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave

As it stands the f2p model is were going to anoy u into subbing the customer response will be im anoyed F this im outta here

Ravenstorm

Nooooooooo, did you see Larry go off on the FTP model? He almost went bananas, Justin is trying to be all jedi about it, he keeps believing it’s ok what BW/EA are doing. It’s sad that the docters sold out. This is the most tragic loss of a major mmo due to businessmen who don’t give a crap about the gamers, only the money. Idiots. They should invest their money in study consultancy with Arena net, then they can start making the gamers happy and earn some real cash.

NathanSchmidt000

I dig you Gary, but get rid of the two pod-people you currently do the show with. No offense. I’m sure Larry and Justin are nice guys, but they are not interesting or engaging in the least. Listening to these two babble on is like taking an Ambien.

InvaderMig

I figure the people who enjoy the game should just enjoy it while they can. The devs of this game were incompetent and lacked any real vision. I get they wanted to make Kotor and MMO experience, but to design an MMO with gameplay as an afterthought was doomed from the start. We all saw the writing on the wall during beta and pleaded for changes. Sadly it was obvious BW was making a game more for themselves than they were for MMO players. It’s sad, because now I’ll never have a Star Wars MMO, or will I. In any case if I do it’ll be years and I might just lose interest in the genre by then.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Brandon-Evans/1603660859 Brandon Evans

Unlike other f2p MMOs, BW/EA spent 200 million dollars on development. Even with these restrictions people are still going to enjoy the game content and story lines. BW managed to make leveling one of the best parts of the game where normally its the worst part of any MMO. However they didn’t seem to understand that the end game is where the money is at and is where you keep your subs. My biggest concern is that all the resources put in to the f2p part of the game will hinder new end game content from coming out.

http://www.facebook.com/jimmy.thomson.587 Jimmy Thomson

well if you can take there track record.. “end game content ” will be non-existant. (and that was with a srict sub Base).right now.. unless the game gets a major infusion of cash..end game will not be there.. and if they do get it .. it will be watered down.. now if the game first game out as a f2p.. then they may have a leg to stand on.

http://www.facebook.com/tron.sheridan Tron Sheridan

It’s far too restrictive. I came back to the game after a long break and could not believe it. I realize those things are put in place to incentivize subscribing, but if you go too far you end up driving away future customers. I washed my hands of the game. Bioware failed miserably with this game. Such a huge disappointment.

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