TWIMMO 121: Death To Subscriptions

Gary, did Bioware refuse to sponsor your site, your hatred for SWTOR is bordering on comical.  The game is not nearly as bad as you say, I am not fanboy though I ahve been playing from launch.   Also your opinion is mute because you have not even played the game in months, and to have your show filled with GW2 fanboy Winter and well Pocket is good, at least she actually plays MMO’s.  

Serious Payola!  This comment will never be shown due to the fear in ganons eyes.

One last question, what is the rationale behind having a fan show, like the Republic, is your only purpose to cater to the internet trolls, I used to follow your shows because they were genuinely about the content, the game, the world, not this petty advertising BS.

Talking about SWTOR I will say again, they should’ve made the gameplay, and I am talking the gameplay nothing else be like the Mass Effect series.

They already had the code, the AI design and the entire gameplay logic behind it = saving production time and costs. Then keep the Star Wars title, story, classes and abilities- again learned similar to Mass Effect style.

Mass Effect was a good RPG focus shooter which melee was/is easily a functioning part of the system.

On the sub part, people often get confused that subscription based games ALSO mean a bx price. I think the heavy box price is a deterrent, I think having to put up credit card information before playing a game is a deterrent. GET PEOPLE IN the game first before trying to charge them a decent game will sell itself. The problem is I don’t think any of such sub-based games are that great currently.

I think Gary was right, most people have a main game they like to stick to, most other games become secondary time slots to fill for some variation. Social networking of games makes multi-player games (hold) stronger.

I think Gary’s Idea is workable, I thought of such too. More popular games get a greater share of the total pot of money the single sub pan brings in, but ultimately every game gets equal opportunity with less money needed in marketing and monetary gimmicks to attract people. IIt would be some tricky waters and having some people who competing on even ground isn’t attractive.

Also the economy not hinder a gamer’s gaming habits, but it would influence their spending habits.

Free to Play isn’t a good business model for MMOs.  All the games that have gone the FTP route  currently only use it for a tool to try and get people to subscribe up there is no true FTP model in the US.  The closest thing is GW2′s Buy To Play model, which is better for MMOs as a business model and the why of the future.  SWTOR’s FTP will not bring any people back to the  game but push them away.  Funcom’s issue with FTP is more that they didn’t really know what they where selling with TSW.  Most games with a sub model are wroth paying for, like RIFT and the TSW (but now WoW).  If a games is going to go FTP they should look and base their model on Sony’s or LotRON. 
GW2 BTP equals win.
FFXIV if a fail games that come not, not fail now.  No matter how good a movie is that doesn’t equal a good game.   To much money has been spent on this game and will be spent with them remaking it, for it to turn a profit, which is one of the problems SWTOR has also.  FFXIV needs to die, no one will play a sub for the game, and Square needs to let it die.

Spot on what Gary said there. As far as am concerned:) I still play WoW due to the community, and the friends I made through that game. Even thou I really dont enjoy the gameplay at all.
Its kinda sad that I dont play as much gw2 as I would like due to the fact that am alone playing it, even thou I enjoy the gameplay a hundred times more in that game,
How sad am  I

But again, yes the ppl have a lot to say. Its a mmo after all. So well said Gary

Why do gamers expect every new sub-based mmo to eventually go f2p?  Because developers keep releasing crappy, bug-ridden, half-baked games.  I can accurately predict that any sub-based game that offers multi month sub options is a game that will not adequately support on-going development of the game.  I’ve seen it happen in far too many mmog.  It is the norm, not the exception to the rule. 

The most honest model is the buy2play, sub-free, cash shop game (as long as it doesn’t sell power).  Make a good game with enough front-loaded content that can accurately be called a game, charge a fair market price for it and then add a mix of free (holiday and special one off events) and purchasable content (expansions) on a continuous basis as the game ages.  Games like this should cost (slightly) more than a single player rpg because they typically have more front-loaded content in them, so charge accordingly for them-but be transparent about it.  Gamers are cynical and distrustful of mmo developers because of all the typical mmo bullshite games devs play with them.   

Pokket-perhaps there are those gamers who just want handouts, but I suspect that most of us just want a good game worthy of whatever pay model it has.  We just aren’t getting that and haven’t been for quite a long while.  Even decent/good games that have been made haven’t been supported well enough by the studios that made them.  It’s unfortunate because many of these games deserve a better fate if only their live teams had been as passionate/motivated as the teams that made the games.  Of course it’s more complicated than that-live teams often inherit a laundry list of fixes needed and resources that should’ve gone to further development are cannibalized to fix shite that should’ve been tested better in beta to begin with.  The vicious cycle continues ad nauseum. 

As for me, I’ll never buy a sub-based game again.  I’m a firm believer that when I buy something I own it for its lifetime.  Cutting me off from content that I’ve already purchased is the biggest ripoff the mmog industry has pulled over on gamers in the history of gaming.  I’m wary of mmo devs these days, they all seem to me to be looking for a quick cash grab, aren’t prepared to wait for a return on their investment over the life of the games they make and hence will need to prove to me that they will follow through with promises of long term support. 

Buy the box free to play its fair and do a fair cash shop and its a win for player and the game

Another prediction by Gary!  The music industry had Apple and their iPhones/iPods hardware to help push recording companies into their current model.   I wonder if there could be anything force like that in the MMO industry?   

Personally I’m not sorry to see the sub model dying out but if there are people still willing to pay and companies can find way to appeal to those players, then that will just be more options for the market which could be a good thing.  

It was very telling when Gary mentioned how it was logging on with his friends that made bad MMOs playable.  I think that was the real foundation of the genre when it began.   Old school MMOs didn’t survive because they had good designers making them.   They survived because of the community that managed to grow from those buggy, tedious games.  Which is why I’m always amazed companies still hire those old-school developers thinking they can make good games or that there are still people who want to see the industry return to those mechanics best left abandoned. 

It will be very interesting to see how FF does with the re-launch.   I just read the article how the Square exec said that if it fails then that could end the company.   That might not be far off.  

And I am now following Darth Giggles as well.