This Week In MMO Ep116: SWTOR, RIFT, Age Of Wushu, And More!

Written by: Gary Gannon (@garygannon) | October 12, 2012 8:45 pm

76 Comments

On This Week In MMO, Gary Gannon, Hillary Nicole, and Jason Winter sit down for a fire side chat about the latest and greatest MMO news. Topics on this weeks epsiode include:

Star Wars The Old Republic Focusing On the Legacy System
RIFT’s Player Housing Looks Amazing!
Up And Coming Martial Arts MMO Age Of Wushu Is Debated
What Do MMO Players Think Of Innovation Vs Playing It Safe?

This Week In MMO Ep116: SWTOR, RIFT, Age Of Wushu, And More!

World of Warcraft

Patch 5.3 Release Date Confirmed

Patch 5.3 Release Date Is Confirmed By Blizzard on TwitterRead more »

53 comments
1:22:33

World of Warcraft

Legendary Ep126:
Raiding Ra-Den Revelations!

This week the Legendary crew are talking patch 5.3, raiding, and more with World First raider Treckie!Read more »

23 comments
45:25

Guild Wars 2

GuildCast Ep71:
Blue Flowers

The Secret of Southsun update has arrived, a Guild Wars 2 expansion has been confirmed, and more.Read more »

27 comments

http://twitter.com/ByronLumley Byron Lumley

I don’t understand the big deal with the SWTOR thing, seems like the right idea. You don’t want to replay the same content over and over, so we have 8 unique class quests, you can play them all once and get a unique experience and two sides of faction quests, it is very unlikely you will do all the bonus quests and so on, in a single play through your quest log would be full of grey quests. So you can go through faction content maybe a couple of times, and enjoy things you have not seen, including stuff like seeing Darkside/Lightside options.

But, by adding in the legacy system it lets players skip content they have already played, things like getting a mount at lvl 10, xp boosts to get more of your xp in PvP or Dungeons so you are not repeating the same planet quests.

I don’t want Swtor focusing on making us replay the same content, give us new content with story and something as close as being able to complete class quests without doing a single quest I had done before. So, it’s really not that crazy, the Legacy system encourages you to play other class quests by making it easier, by reducing the amount of content you have to replay and allows you to spend time doing the other great stuff like PvP or flashpoints.

When I leveled my second Republic character I did lots of flashpoints/pvp/space missions and so on, constantly planets would turn green or even grey, so i would just go there do the class quest and leave, I had already seen the planet quests before. Legacy armor also helps, content I had done on my main, where i had obtained excess armor, I sent over with my legacy armor, and boom I don’t have to grind out heaps of armor for my alt, he is useful to my guild as I have a different class available and I can go right into the latest content with him without again not repeating old content.
scottsummer

Age of Wulin is actually very popular in China for a while already , i tried it briefly.
Very interesting concept on the whole Players become NPC when the they are offline, and it has no level or classes/skills system with open world pvp system.

BUT the graphic and art style is quite dated, combat is quite “generic” as you can find that kind of combat system in almost any popular MMO in China. Furthermore, the server is incredibly lag and tons of exploitation and bugs in the game.
Hicks64

I wish MMO’s and AAA titles in general would be more varied and innovative, but I think we won’t see major changes until computing power and internet connections get a lot better. Also, the sound has a bit of weird buzzing on the right channel throughout the vid.
TheHolgar

Damn TRION doin a great job with RIFT! To bad i didnt liked it :/ – I sure hope that Arenanet will do just as good job with Guild Wars 2 …player housing to GW2 pleeease
Great show as always guys/girl.
Nils Amundsen

In respect to player housing, I’d want to say that the lack of it so far is a reflection of your typical narrow-minded, short-term business approach.

Like Hillary says, there seem to be a lot of people in the industry with little grasp of what makes or breaks an MMO’s long-term success. They’re so preoccupied with instant allure that when the next big thing comes around or they mess up an expansion, they see half their player base jump ship.

Player housing is a strong cornerstone in allowing characters to have a history within the game, therefore making it so much harder for the player to just abandon their account.
WoW is the big exception here but it is unique in that it makes up for it with it’s first-mover advantage and subsequent strong network effects to this day.

Now that Rift is maturing, Dev’s seem to be waking up to the idea. And in fact this announcement makes me consider taking a break from LotRO to check Rift’s new system out.

However, a proper housing system in the sense outlined above doesn’t end with comfy-looking houses and a decent amount of decoration hooks. It remains to be seen how well the housing areas will integrate into the world and if it will actually serve as a place for players to display foregone deeds achieved by their character.

If it ends up as just another dollhouse feature with little meaning to the decoration objects or their relation to the character, then don’t expect it to be much more than another distraction.
- http://twitter.com/LisaAkari ❀ Lisa ❀
  
  “Player housing is a strong cornerstone in allowing characters to have a
  history within the game, therefore making it so much harder for the
  player to just abandon their account. WoW is the big exception here …”
  
  Have to disagree with your WoW comment (unless I’ve misunderstood you). It’s not the exception…they’re also missing the boat. Both my sister and left WoW because we just lost interest. We both feel like we have much more compelling characters in Everquest and TES series, both of which have extensive player housing. And there’s a whole world of folks on Everquest II who talk about this very topic extensively at least once a week on my server’s chat who feel the exact same way.
  
  As you said, the player housing helps characters develop a history and you just have a hard time leaving your character if you have housing. Additionally, aren’t there days you just don’t feel like pvp’ing? Or questing? I know people in Everquest II who ONLY do decorating in their houses. You’d think gals only like decorating, but no. Guys I know spend weeks decorating instead of questing or raiding. Then they’ll go back to raiding. Then back to decorating. (I also know gals who sell all their deco stuff – they only want to raid!)
  
  There are many many folks who do not want to quest much, let alone pvp or raid. They only like crafting and decorating.
  
  A game that adds all these components and does a great job of them will attract and keep more people longer.
Jay

“MMORPGs are at an end”… I sort of agreed with everything Pokket said up to that point. There’s a fundamental reason why RPG elements in an MMO environment work so well. Some of it psychological, being that many people who want to be immersed in a persistent world enjoy a fantasy setting. Warriors in heavy armor, Rangers raining down arrows from afar, (OP) sorcerers slinging spells… It’s just something that appeals largely to that type of gamer.

I like FPS games, and I do think there’s a successful way to fit one into the market, especially if you consider how GW2′s dynamic events work. I know for sure people would love to fight through a world with similar systems, only with guns and rocket launchers. I can almost guarantee we will see one within 10 years from this time. It would just take a lot of balancing, given snipers are always a problem in any FPS…

WvW with modern day guns and vehicles? Yes, please.
http://twitter.com/Arawulf Arawulf

Age of Wushu looks like it’s going to be a great game. This is not your stereotypical grinder. No levels, strategic combat, no ‘classes’. In fact, since I’ve become familiar with the title I’ve been learning about the various schools of combat featured in the game and it’s fascinating. While it might not be “BIG’ in the west, as Jason pointed out, it’s certainly going to fill a huge void in the market. As with any imported game, the big question will not be the gameplay, but the management. Quality customer service and game maintenence are my biggest questions. SnailGames USA (CA) will ultimately determine if this game will succeed or fail. The game itself seems good enough to stand on it’s own as long as the publisher doesn’t get in their own way.
matraque

I think you guys will talk about 1.5 on the Republic instead of that silly quote. Just saying
http://www.facebook.com/mike.manco Mike Manco

i think its funny been coming to this site for over a year and i post a comment nothing bad and you don’t post it funny
http://www.facebook.com/davidallmighty David Cohen

NEWSFLASH! The makers of SWtor are not good game makers! I know they have some good aspects, but not for MMOs. They make great story, but it just fails when it comes to holding people who play MMOs attention. They are developers who are making a game they like and do not care if they are making a game that their audience is not interested in.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000503974291 Paul Rocha

get off of SWEATER the game is dead, waste of bandwidth next
http://twitter.com/Stone_LX9 Stone LX9

SWTOR so much promise, too bad it ended up as the TORtanic.

/my heart will go on
/grabs his recorder
http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

I could see that SWTOR quote as a response to Dynamic Events in Guild Wars 2. How in GW2 you can repeat content, every time an Dynamic Event is triggered and you can only do the leveling content once per character in SWTOR.

Has anyone heard about resources in Rift Dimensions? Do you have to quest, raid, run dungeons to gain the building resources?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave

Well just goes to show you how incompetent the swtor dev team is lol. If they think the legacy system is thier best stuff ? I cant even begin to explain how stupid that is….

legacy system is a pos and a waste of dev time not to mention they screwed people with thier legacy names in there 2nd server mergers. Im glad people are seeing more and more how incompetent they are with swtor. Pokket is right but they are to arrogant and wont admit thier wrong so according to them 2 million people who left are still wrong lol. What a waste of a star wars IP
http://profile.yahoo.com/FPXO267IVAHL3MK4HRRNRQPNDA Bush Swanson, The American Dre

I hope when I get my own player house my mom doesn’t move in with me!!!!! #JasonWinter
http://profile.yahoo.com/YSVAPKVBUPTX6YS3W2DLPOBNN4 AlokP

The problem is MMORPGers don’t necessarily cross over with FPS, and FPSers aren’t generally inclined to persistent worlds and grind and other MMO elements.

I mean, you say the FPS crowd is huge, but the vast majority of that crowd is a loadout-loving, freewheeling, twitchy gamer for whom death and teamwork mean little to nothing. And I, as an MMORPGer, live enough in the real world to not find enjoyment in being in a real war setting. Even if I’m good at sniping in various FPSes, it’s not one where I want to persistently spend my time. What does one do in the MMO-FPS when you’re not fighting? If you’re always fighting, or strategizing the next fight, doesn’t that lead to a high stress game which burns you out quickly? Would FPSers take to crafting systems, or grinding something to upgrade your equipment, or PvE elements in what is essentially a completely PvP genre?
deathscythe

Actually, SWTOR has much more “replayability” than pretty much any MMO – it has multiple classes with uniqe stories, and you can have different story outcomes even with the same class thanks to the LS-DS system. In other MMOs, all you get from playing again apart from different class skills and aesthetics is a different starting area.
What Schubert was probably talking about were “replayable” Public Quest-like world events, which it would be cool if there were some, but it is nothing as “mindblowing” as you guys are trying to make it… After all, other than story quests, you can do pretty much anything as many times you want on one character – flashpoints, operations, battlegrounds, etc…
http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Lazarowitz/100000420795554 Steve Lazarowitz

I’ll come back and watch this when Pocket is no longer on the show. I honestly find her to be the least useful commentator from any show. She thinks that MMOs are about and should be about PvP and End game Raids. That’s what an MMO is to her.

The fact is, a lot of people do neither. Her ability to dismiss anything out of her comfort zone, or enjoyment zone makes this show too annoying to watch.
Guild Wars 2 is proving, at least so far, that a lot of people don’t care about raids, and there are just as many, if not more people playing PVe as PvP there.

It’s attitudes like hers that have pretty much destroyed the MMO genre for many of us who remember that RPG is also part of the genre name.
- Avaloner31
  
  I equally think people who want, no demand dumbed down easy mode/anto social games like GW2 and present day WOW have also destroyed the MMO genre
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Lazarowitz/100000420795554 Steve Lazarowitz
    
    What I want has nothing at all to do with easy mode, nor does it have to do with anti-social, since my guild has 80 people in it and I play with them all the time. Challenge isn’t what I object to. It’s the triumph of mechanics over RP aspects of RPGs.
    
    This isn’t about difficulty for some of us and mechanics is not the only way to generate difficulty anyway. Exploring and puzzles aren’t necessary easy, they’re just a different kind of hard.
    But I can’t watch someone who is so obviously biased against what I enjoy, because it’s just lousy to watch. There’s no reason to watch someone what annoys me incessantly because of a personal bias of her own.The fact is for 7 years MMOs have gradually shifted to the raid end game, and that’s what PVe has become. It wasn’t always that way and it doesn’t have to be that way.There are a zillion games for people to play who want raids. There are also a whole lot of people who left the MMO genre or who’d never consider an MMO because they made a mockery of what RPGs were about. And RPG is definitely part of MMORPG.
    It’s okay for someone to like raids, or PvP and think that that’s all an MMO needs or has to be…but I don’t have to sit and listen to it.
    - Depravity
      
      Hate so say that, but you don’t seem to realize you’re intolerant to intolerance. It’s clearly a logical circle you’re entering into and from that you’ll have a hard time snapping out. Demanding one experience over another and stating it as a fact of success by basing it on your on gameplay experience is deleterious to the discussion.
      
      Pokket is fine. I actually think she brings fresh air to the debate and contributes to the show with sound opinions. She might have a particular view on the obstacles of MMO longevity, but you can’t dismiss the fact her needs as a gamer are shared with many other customers. So are yours, of course.
      
      Having said that I personally concurr with her. GW2 might be a different beast than the majority of subscription based MMOs since it blatantly targets casuals and undemanding PVP and endgame players (hopefully that changes with the introduction of a more robust tPVP system), but the landscape is changing and since developers just can’t cater to the masses anymore (from a development cycle perspective it’s just unfeasable – and honestly passe as well), we have to realize specific games targeting a particular audience are the way forward.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Lazarowitz/100000420795554 Steve Lazarowitz
        
        Interesting that Gamebreaker decided to remove my original post. I didn’t really expect that. I guess I can’t say what I did on this site, which is pretty weird. I was simply expressing my opinion.
        
        As for what I was saying, there is a major difference between someone expressing a personal opinion and someone being dismissive of different game styles. When I watched this show, I felt my game style was dimissed. I could care less if someone likes or doesn’t like the way that I play games. What’s relevant is that I didn’t go on a podcast and dismiss anyone else’s play style.It’s one thing to have a preference and another to talk down about other play styles. Just her use of the word carebear, in the way she used it makes me respect her a lot less.I suspect this post will be removed as well, so I guess I’ll be neither posting here again or contributing financially to the site again.
- Mizzick
  
  That’s funny because I turned off the show and thumbs down after the first few minutes of Gary being an asshole. Still love the guy , but WTF? Justin, Ed, Mike and Jass FTW!
- testguy111
  
  I agree… she’s just unbearable… why can’t Gary find a nice looking AND smart girl like Elixabeth?
  Pokket is just not smart enough… she sounds dumber the longer she talks… it’s embarrassing
http://www.facebook.com/tim.fentn Tim Fentn’

Hate to sound like a tyrant, but in order to maintain any kind of long range success with ‘The Old Republic,’ Bioware needs to understand that they must, without fail, bend to the will of the players.

If you don’t give players what they want, they will leave, it’s as simple as that. As a game company running an mmo, you can’t think about what YOU want, you have to think only about what the players want and make it happen.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr
  
  But the problem with that is the end product will end up being and Edsel. Go into the SWTOR forums and you will see vastly different ideas on where the players think the direction of the game should go. Who then is right and who is wrong? Ultimately, a game developer has to decide what they want to accomplish with their game and which type of playstyle/gamer they want to target. It is then up to the players to realize that a particular game may not be suited for them and move on, instead of trying to force what they want on to a product that was not designed to be that way.
DoctorOverlord

Nice to see other people rolling their eyes at the Secret World dev’s statements. There are plenty of examples of game developers who follow their vision and become incredibly successful.   The harsh truth is that those people have talent and worthwhile ideas that become successful.   The real breakout games in the industry are the original ones.

Trying to be commercial (aka. copying what you think is popular) will result in just what Hilary/Pokket said, you might some mediocre profits but no big success. Clueless devs may thing that being commercial means copying what’s popular because of all the sequels we see in video games.   Only most of those sequels are the result of
a game that once was original back when it started.    The Secret World dev’s comments are show he may fit into the clueless category.

The Age of Wushu looks interesting but Jason brings up a good point, Asian MMOs just haven’t done well coming overseas.   And getting kidnapped when you’re
offline? That sounds like one of those ‘Hey that’s cool’ on paper only to fail horribly in reality.

And thank you for pointing out just how enormous the FPS market is.   People forget how big it really is and I agree that the MMORPG market hasn’t figured out how to tap into it. Personally, I want to see how Planetside 2 does with that.
http://www.facebook.com/Jamandos Joshua Lee

SWTOR is a slowly dying creature. It won’t start to become really popular until the current developers and managers are fired and some really creative people are put in control with an extremely limited budget.

We’ve seen with SWG and the NGE, after the players abandoned the game and forced the developers to start being creative with what they can do to bring back players, and satisfy the ones that stayed.

- Age of Wushu sounds like it has cool features, however I believe the time line/era is going to absolutely kill it. Now If this MMO was Shenmue the MMO with those bounty hunter features, pvp and crafting, it would absolutely be a massive hit in the American market. I believe western players want a modern day, realistic asian MMO, but without the anime/asian fantasy art direction.
Gandalfthegay

SWTOR is ok, as an SPRPG with some MP, but… They used the KotOR era, and had SWG closed to make way for this. So my favorite game (KotOR) has been raped, and for the first time in 9 years I dont have a Star Wars MMO to play. I don’t like Bioware anymore.
TheHolgar

Age of Wushu= A little bit to much of flying and jumping air, but i like the idea of a martial arts MMO.
TheHolgar

The only thing that will make me play an MMORPGFPS is if they copy the way one see things in real life – I cant stand to play an FPS and dont know whats happening 2feet away from me to the right. They gat to make a “blurr” area that reflect the sides on the character, or something like that.
ahmenus

I’ve played so many MMOs since Ultima I feel like it’s the only genre I enjoy…with that said…I add in on a personal blog over at MMOPTICS.BLOGSPOT and it’s usually articles based on my disdain for SWTOR…

SWTOR has done nothing but damage “MMORPGS” as a whole.

Even more twisted that I saw a personal blog which described SWTOR as a “true” MMO.

It didn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t have.

No one paid any mind to the EA Louse story even though he had tons of inside information.

From the start of this game you could see that Bioware did NOT care what players wanted and/or they had no idea how to accomplish what players wanted. At the very start Bioware was obviously focusing on making SWTOR a single player anti-social game with very few MMO elements.

Bioware have made so many mistakes they have never learned from. Still today they continue the same “We will do whatever we want!” attitude

People still praying and hoping SWTOR is going to “turn around” need to give it a rest.

Accept that this game is an unimaginative cash grab lead by a team who did not care about nor understood MMOs and their communities.

Now look…look at Bioware SWTOR team…majority have been fired…ones that destroyed it have jumped ship…

This game really is TORTANIC.

And to be blunt…if you are still paying a cent for this game you either REALLY REALLY LOVE Star Wars or ….well.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
  
  for damien schubert to say that legacy is thier best stuff says it all imagine a high class restaurant saying we dont care about good meals and giving the customer the food they want we have burnt toast as our biggest seller lol. Thats how i look at this stupidity.
  
  The legacy system was overhyped on top of it its just not that spectacular or amazing. Most people as pokket and gary have pointed out have just 1 toon. The majority of people want to experience end game content on a mass scale. Even if you reroll and reroll your still getting to a game with very little end game. At some point theres got to be more to do at end game as close to 2 mill people quitting have shown them.
  
  Very incompetent people to say the least. I just hope it gets shutdown so we can get swg 2 or somethng better with more competent silent people who dont scream about things the game doesnt have lol
Thomas Hughes

All the audio levels on this episode are clipping badly!
http://twitter.com/BillMcD Alan

Okay really? You complain about SWTOR not having raiding and mass appeal but you go on to say that the secret world needed to be niche from the start. Does trying to build combat from the ground up shoehorn a company into being “niche”? While I can’t stand Funcom this sentiment just feels hypocritical.
Keiosin

RIFT…….ftw!
Keiosin

I said……..RIFT………..ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! great grafix, raids, dungeons, IA, crafting…..soon to have housing, great dynamic events, oh and yes WvW pvp conquest zone. its a win/win
Glenn Hyatt

could there be one damn episode where I don’t hear the words wow killer?
IrishBrewed

Biowares quote isn’t surprising considering the entire game felt exactly like that while playing it. And the Story is not good at all, I do not know why you guys continue to claim that. It was a generic mess littered with a crap ton of horrible side stories. Yes the cut-scenes were good but the actual context of the story was very underwhelming.
smlongbeach

is it just me or are you guys clueless and completely out of
touch when it comes to swtor the things you say blow my mind

legacy system = a way to level alts for story and not have
to repeated tedious quests that are pretty much filler for exp. after leveling
one character you get perks to easily see the different stories. one of the
biggest gripes is that people want to play through different stories but not
have to do the same leveling quests 8 times, bioware’s answer… legacy perks.
though it doesn’t quite work out that way it’s not a surprise they would focus
on trying to get people to play the content that is currently in game

repayable content: think of how GW2 and the down scaling
lets you replay any level content while at max level, swtor is not focusing on
the replay ability of quests on coruscant or quesh for level 50 characters they
focused on making the HM flashpoints for max characters to replay and are
creating new content forward from 50 on not forcing people to have to replay the
same content on the same character. they
want you to either make a new character or keep advancing forward and not look back to the leveling
planets. with that said the live events, hk-51 quests, and pet requirements do
make you use the galaxy and have to revisit planets just not quests and npcs
are not scaled.

you also act like swtor is not focused on creating endgame
content or “mmo” content when they have been focusing on new ops, new
warzones, and world bosses, all of that is end game group content with more on
the way. not to mention the solo endgame side of pet quests, live events, and
new daily areas. also many mmo mechanics and systems have been implemented that
needed to get in to make it a proper mmo like /roll, group finder, and guild
banks with more to come. they are slow at getting the content in like proper ranked
pvp and open world pvp but it’s not like they are not working on it.

honestly I am kinda impressed with the content they have put
out in less than a year. it has to be hard while they are recovering from a buggy
launch, server merges, and converting to free 2 play not to mention the
millions of haters, the subscriber exodus, investor calls, layoffs and bad
press from sites like this

but just keep up the hate and negative outlook, its easier
than being respectable and playing the games you report on like it’s a actual
profession.
- smlongbeach
  
  oh and rocket boots, level 10 speeder, miraluka snipers and heroic abilities = legacy win
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
  
  Its just you man lol. Legacy is a waste of time and pointless to most. What they did was take a chunk of space xp and a chunk of normal xp you use to get and put it in the legacy for you to repurchase it making you feel your getting an xp gain when all they did was take that xp away and put it in the legacy.Whats known in the industry as bait and switch same the inquistor sacrifice deal also. Legacy is not win its just repacking things you already had and making you repurchase them with some other items that are unique. Those rocket boots are shit lmao ive seen them in action total waste once again by the devs.
  
  There is no open world pvp gabe failed with ilum theres no galactic war to say. All there is instanced pvp. I didnt ask gabe to get on a live stage at pax and say ilum will be a 100vs100 then proceed to shut ilum down.
  
  Call me a hater man i been in beta and played it a long time i know what im talking about here. They screwed off with the game in general can you honestly say that the close to 2 million people who quit and didnt come back are wrong?
  
  They havent added much really considering how long its been out now and how much they continue to promise and promise never to deliver.
  
  Be postive man think its good but 2 mill people cant be wrong. Let me ask you this if you went to a restaruant and they said thier best meal toast? would think thats a good restaruant? well thats how most feel about legacy its pointless/worthless and not end game.
  - smlongbeach
    
    yeah this is just a hater reply and I doubt you have played with the new legacy system because 80% of the perks are usefull for both max level characters and a leveling alts
    
    the tin foil hat theory about taking away exp then adding legacy… dont know what to say there. but heroic abilities, rocket boots, speeder perks, class buffs crafting bonus, exp bonus and bonus stats from companion affection really help the leveling game and the species unlocks are nice too. none of these are repacking things I already had as you put it. oh and 15 sec down time on rocket boots is great in areas you cant use a speeder. just sayin
    
    world pvp is what it is. they have hinted that there is upcoming changes to provide incentives for open world pvp kills and that they are working on illum but everyone tries to act like they are never going to do any world pvp updates ever again so all is lost but its just more negative uninformed hater dribble
    
    as for the 2 million… never said anything to deny it, in fact its the reason content that was planned from 1.4 to 1.7 has been pushed back while they merge servers and convert to free 2 play. and as I said in less then a year we have got alot of changes to the game in both systems and content [look at the patch notes they are rediculously long] while the free 2 play conversion goes on and we as subscribers have not been charged one extra cent for extra character slots added pets and mounts or any of the new content.
    
    its not really the same game it was at launch. people also love to hate these days and thats fine with me. “gamers” today like LOL [alot] and I think that is the most unfun tedious pvp game ever with the most toxic community I have ever played in. I am glad I am not like “gamers” today
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
      
      yours is a fanboi/carbear response
      
      ive played it longer then you it seems lol. Legacy xp and space xp is the xp they took away a couple patches close to legacy launch. I know this for a fact b/c i was doing space to level and the i used to get 4k to 8 prior to legacy launch it went down the space xp as well the normal xp my friend bought the space xp buffs and guess what he went from the 2k tops space xp back to the 4k and 8k lol.They just took the xp away and put it in the legacy and said hey we have xp buffs now lol its bs believe what you will. Ive looked at patch notes its just fixing things 99% of it. Its not the same game it was at launch its a worse pos then before.So we agree somewhere around a million or more left the game? Gw2 been out a month hasnt lost that servers are still stuffed.The servers merges are b/c the game is going to crap lol 2 times over now also screwing a lot of people out of there legacy name on top of it. Getting rid of fatman was the biggest screw up since 1.2 patch.there isnt world pvp gabe screwed it up and the engine cant handle it lol. Instanced pvp w/z’s are the most exploit ridden messes ive ever seen and then theres the cc chainstun fest on top of gear grind with god aweful looking gear on top of that.Legacy will not save the game and its mediocre at best its not spectactular or anything special really. Ive seen it used and messed with its meh.Its like i said its like going to a restaruant and they tell you their best meal is toast. Then yours you on the side telling me oh the toast is great man it will keep the restuarant in business. Meanwhile the restaturant has lost 2 million customers? You see where im going with this lol
http://www.facebook.com/MelanieDawnMcGreevey Melanie Dawn McGreevey

Sweet, read my comment! Anyway… You couldn’t GIVE me a life time sub for a FPSMMO… i can’t stand the twitchy playstyle. I used to play Unreal WAY back (over a decade ago) and it just wasn’t for me, but we used to play on our breaks (when WOTC still had retail stores).

Also, Gary, slow down..read my last name correctly next time ;P
smlongbeach

in reply to shawn hargrave I thought I hit reply but guess not

my main has 68 days 11 hours and 17 minutes on /played I have been playing since early access, have 6 50s 4 that raid and have legacy 50. 5/5 HM EC and 3/5 HM TFB come at me bro [is that the saying]

lol at your conspiracy theories

I see were your going with it more parroting about personal gripes not flaws in game design wah cc stun locks, wahhh ilum, wahhhhhh I cant win in spvp, it must be exploits, heard it all before. the only real problem you list is the engine.

your argument might hold up if legacy was the only update they have had but its not. as for stupid stories about toast the operations are their best content and EC and TFB are very good

the argument was more about legacy vs endgame content and I was saying they are not just focusing on one as seen from the last 4 [soon to be 5] updates. but the gamebreaker trolls will jump on one thing and act like its gospel pinning everything wrong with the game on it. because honestly they are unable to give a real opinon and just troll because they dont play [I am including justin and larry from the republic in this. they have not said anything in a long time that conviences me they are still actively completing content in game and not just logging in casualy for the updates] not why you dont like the game if you had any real argument against the legacy system you did not express it well

but thats fine if you feel the need to spout hate because someone said something positive about swtor go right ahead it is the cool bandwagon thing to do…
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
  
  If you feel the need to be a blind lemming and carebear keep rolling on that bandwagon!!
  
  The rest is just carebear qq. Spin it all you want the majority disagrees. If legacy was so awesome why did over a million people leave? If ilum was so awesome why was it shutdown? Why are warzones cc chainstuns and exploiters heaven? these are legitimate questions.
  
  What you got served was a giant rancor turd on a plate and your chowing down lol.
  
  I played in the first beta all the way through. The majority of people said the same thing to linear worlds are dead wheres the end game?
  
  Its not hate if its true lol. These are all true things
  
  So in your view the over 1 mill that left are all wrong? even gary and the rep show hosts are saying the same thing i supose their haters to?
  
  If you dont like bieng told how it is and want to live in candyland be my guest man. Spin away spin doctor but the facts speak for themselves
  
  Over a million people quit (fact)
  
  The game is going f2p before bieng 1 year live (thats not a positive thing) (fact)
  
  Ilum was a failure even gabe ametegelo admitted that lol after saying 100vs100 on a live stage at pax (fact)
  
  The operations arent thier best content they think legacy is thier best content lol. If you like the game play it be positive but the 1 mill plus rest of us want what we were sold an mmo. Not kotor 3 with multiplayer add ons.
  - smlongbeach
    
    wow those are some hard hitting facts there guy I dont think anyone has ever brought thouse up on the internet efore. silly me saying this whole time that they still had over 2 mil subs and illum was fine /roll eyes… get a new script
    
    see the thing is you cant take that someone likes a game you dont. I understand that most people hate swtor and am perfectly ok with that. what I am not ok with is spending my time hating on games I dont play. actually I could care less about diablo 3, call of duty, gw2, or lol. why because I dont play them.
    
    I commented on a video about a game I play where the hosts act like they carry the opinion of all gamers and are completly out of touch with a game and community that they are not part of but act like they are. so I gave the opinion of 1 paying subscriber and what I think about gamebreakers gaming “journalism”. you could not handle that
    
    so if you havent got all your swtor hate out then be my guest and flame some more but I still dont hear comments on why you or anyone would think from Damions comments that bioware is only focusing on legacy when every update has been focused on endgame and group content. this whole thing stems from one out of context quote that was a reply to a audience question that you [see comment about biowares feeling about legacy above] and gamebreaker are latching on too and blowing out of porportion with out understanding what the legacy system really is or accomplishes in game.
    
    and in my posts I have admitted to things coming slow, being broken, and the engine being bad. I dont know where you get I live in candyland as you put it but the problems you are making up do not exists in the current game and you are just parroting what bandwagon haters who dont play spout on message boards. I currently play the game everyday so dont get offended when I tell you that you dont know what you are talking about. especially since you have admitted you do not play and have little experiance with the legacy system.
    
    as for pvp being a exploiter heaven? lol, when was the last time you played and cc chainstun? L2P. I wish swtor came close to a kotor 3. sadly its just a starwars theme park mmo based in a time after the kotor series with all the mmo rules, crappy gameplay and mmo problems without the things that made kotor and bioware games great
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
      
      uh hello i got 3 people permabanned before i left b/c they were wall hacking and shooting through the walls lol. The hero engine is one of most exploitable engines ever. L2p hahaha you dont even pvp LOL.
      
      i was there before the legacy i was there when legacy launched ive used the legacy my friend who still plays even says its a pos.
      If you want to believe its this awesome mind blowing thing go right ahead thats the truth they took xp away and put it into legacy to re buy it. They did the same thing with legacy options sacrifice skill and more.
      
      If legacy was so great why did so many leave? If legacy was so great i think the republic show would be going about how cool it is and all this. Even justin is caving lol.
      
      Your either a bioware dev or a complete noob man mabye both lol. You are not playing the same game that everyone else is that for sure
      - smlongbeach
        
        oh yes there was hacking after launch but it has been nearly entirely eradicated thats why I said lol when was the last time you played learn to read. and I pvp alot and am actually comming up on valor level 85 I just dont and would never consider myself a pvper. they are the worst most toxic whiners in mmos. I love to pvp and have a ranked team I just hate people who claim to be “pvpers”
        
        the legacy system is what it is I never said it was the greatest thing ever but I will counter anyone who says its useless because that is simply not true. it provides very real very usefull benefits. what I cant stand is people who dont play swtor acting like they know about the game because the played at launch and quit after 1.2
        
        dont care that your “friend” thinks its useless I have listed very beneficial additions to the game for players that exsist because of the legacy system you have just bashed it with baseless opinoin and not given any reason other than the exp conspiracy that is simply not true, got to you tube and look at the experiance from space missions at launch and the current exp with the bonus exp maxed.
tommythepower

People in charge at bioware are nothing but complete morons, fact. I still play swtor everyday.
But the way they talk about these things only show how clueless they are, apart from speeder at lvl 10 all the legacy perks are a joke no one cares about. They nerft XP bigtime from wz, space etc only to give it back in legacy as another money sink.

The developers are the same ones who is to dumb to understand that giving players things to do at 50 is the most importent thing, not legacy crap no one cares about, or making new fail space mission on rails.They are to dumb to give players a tailor and minigames to keep players around, they are to dumb to remove stunlocking from pvp to actually save pvp.
They are to dumb to move all things on fleet to capitol worlds, delete fail fleet so players can hang around a living world were players actually enjoy beeing.

PvE is swtor is good and fun, pvp is dead because of 1.1 ilum, expertise, ranked fail because of gear grind and gear gap to enter is so big and lack of reason to do open world pvp and low TTK.So now they are talking about legacy when they should fix the crappy parts of the game, patetic.
- smlongbeach
  
  so then as a player you see no benifit to endgame from the legacy system with things like
  
  - a bonus to crit crafting,
  - bonuses to your surge, crit, healing, accuracy, and endurance from companion affection not to mention all the prescence
  - feild repair, respec, and mail droids
  - legacy bound items
  - priority transports
  - ship repair droid with unique items only available from him
  
  this is just a few things that I am greatful for that make my endgame characters alot more convenient to play and are far from a joke
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
    
    lol not really its not enough to make the legacy the best thing in the game. Thats what your not getting and niether is damion schubert or bioware/ea
    
    You need open world objective based pvp and a lot and i mean a lot more raids.
    
    The other reason why legacy as gary and most have pointed out is most people dont have time or want to make alts. Most people have just 1 toon and thats it. Theres way more people that have 1 toon as thier primary main more then theres altaholics. Thus making legacy meh when you look at the larger picture.
    
    Its like the restaurant reference i used. You have a restaurant who claims there best meal is buttered toast lol. Not everyone wants toast they want a 3 course meal steak pizza you name so the majority of people will just say ill go elsewhere and get a meal instead of a restaurant saying come back we have toast its our best meal lol.
    
    That right there that explanation sums it up dude.
    - smlongbeach
      
      reply the developers has repeatedly said they believe the story is the best part of the game thats why the want to give it to people for free, just because you want to latch on to a out of context quote from one person who is not the lead game designer does not make it fact
      
      and the benefits provided in my post are endgame single character progression that have nothing to do with rolling alts [except the buffs I guess you need alts for those]
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
        
        LOL well damion schubert disagrees with you. Single player progression eh.
        
        restuarant owner: come back hargrave we have toast! Nah toast sucks i want a steak or 3 course meal.
        
        smlongbeach: the toast is really good man what you hate toast?
        
        Hargrave: if i want to toast ill use my toaster
        
        Restaurant owner: coming soon well have strawberry jam for the toast! coming soon wheat toast!
        
        hargrave: thats ok ill go to a “real” restaraunt
      - smlongbeach
        
        lol you really think your analogies are really clever dont you
        
        too bad you dont have a real argument or anything original to say but I guess thats what you become when you dont think for yourself
        
        lol oh well some people need to put down a game they dont play to cater to their insecurities
        
        I enjoy my hobbies
  - Revanhavoc
    
    Still leaves the huge problem that many MMO players suffer from: You are forced to re-roll. Re-rolling isn’t the problem. Got lots of re-rolling. Re-rolling obviously isn’t enough for a sub-fee though…
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
  
  that was really embarrassing to see them showcasing a a group finder at a game convention. Then to see james ohlen saying exciting new content “custom ui” Niether of these items are actual game content.
  
  imagine chevrolet at a car show showcasing a steering wheel going hey we have a steering wheel. Its just so embarrassing to watch this stupidity. If you dont know the difference between game content and standard game features you should not be in the gaming industry it just makes you look stupid.
  
  Ive tryed explaining the legacy point to longbeach here but he thinks it isnt true that they did that lol. Why when they say legacy is there best stuff i have to laugh since all they did was take xp away and make u rebuy it again same with the sacrifice skill.
  
  the warzones are an exploiters heaven having gotten some of those scrubs banned hiding in walls shooting you and worse.That cc is lolz the pvp is aimed at scrubs who rely on gear and expertise to believe thier good players while chainstunning people to death. Why i dont see those players in gw2 where its a real pvp fight and they cant do that shit there.
http://www.facebook.com/jason.hightower.374 Jason Hightower

When SWToR goes F2P, the only real perk to having a sub is to do endgame content. If BW isn’t going to focus on making/improving that aspect of the game, and instead focus on making alts which doesn’t require a sub to fully level, then how are they going to make any money?
- smlongbeach
  
  see this is why Gary’s trolling is patheticaly obvious and even more that the gamebreaker community just latches on to this crap without looking into it
  
  here is a quote from the same questions at the end of his speech, sounds like end game focus and plans for new expanded story to me. funny how the respecticle people at gamebreaker conviently over looked this qoute.not to mention the rest of his speech that was full of insider information on swtor
  
  from darthhater:
  During the final segment of the speech, Damion asked the audience to participate by asking him questions. The question brought up that drew the most attention, which other websites also reported on, was if he sees the model developed over the last seven years as sustainable.
  
  “Gosh, I hope so. We are building our first major content expansion. We discovered very early on that we would not be able to put this level of content in every four-month patch. So our patches focus more on re-playable content — Flashpoints which are equivalent to dungeons, Warzones which are equivalent to battlegrounds, and we are building our bigger content into bigger updates and it needs that incubation time to build that stuff out. We’ll see how it goes.”
  
  and as for why you would stay subscribed. it was the first information bioware put out about the free 2 play conversion.
  
  but yeah just believe trolling Gary over facts because they are not adding anything to the game everybody move on it will just be rolling alts with no new content till the end of days…
  - http://www.facebook.com/jason.hightower.374 Jason Hightower
    
    So even though endgame is one of the biggest things killing this game, Damion had to be REMINDED by the audience that it was important before commenting on it. Yeah. This game’s going places. Also, “not focusing” and “not adding anything” are far from the same thing. Perhaps you should take a literary analysis class or even logic before making an argument.
    - smlongbeach
      
      yeah he wasnt there to talk about up coming features to fans he was there to talk about the pre launch development of the game to developers. GDC is not like pax and I believe he was there as a industry veteran not a swtor dev. but I could be wrong about that
      
      but man you guys get so offended when your hyperbolic hate is proven wrong. I thought trolls had thicker skin
      
      ” our patches focus more on re-playable content — Flashpoints which are equivalent to dungeons, Warzones which are equivalent to battlegrounds”
      
      as to your im so smart comment at the end…
      
      you claimed bioware were not focusing on endgame in your post [not a opinion gained from your own reserch by the way you are just going off a out of context quote you were provided] I put up a qoute from the same talk where the same developer clearly says they are focusing on endgame content like flash points, warzones, [see above] the not adding anything comment at the end was tounge and cheek because I thought people around here understood obvious sarcasm but that takes thinking for yourself which is not allowed here I guess
      
      but I am the one who needs classes… right
      
      but go ahead and hate on gamebreaker. you are not creating a toxic fanbase
      - http://www.facebook.com/jason.hightower.374 Jason Hightower
        
        So let me get this straight. You’re calling the host of most of the shows on GB a troll and calling the content of said shows “crap”, yet I’m the one who’s going to “go ahead and hate on gamebreaker”? Yes. Classes are needed.
      - smlongbeach
        
        I was telling gamebreaker to hate on, you know like saying to just keep on hating. so yeah you still need those classes and to pay a little more attention
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
        
        keep in mind jason this guy thinks there end game and that legacy is awesome and all this even though the 1 million plus rest of us disagree lol.
      - smlongbeach
        
        wow look how sad you are
        
        do you allways have to go with the millions of people to validate your uninformed opinon
        
        really feel sorry for people who cant think for themselves and its a sad state for gaming when people cant enjoy anything but hating on games they dont play.
        
        cant wait to hear what hater script you use next
        
        my fingers are crossed for something original your starting to bore me
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
        
        so your saying a million plus people are misinformed?
        
        if anyone cant think for themselves it seems to be you following swtor like a blind lemming i been bored with your fanboism for quite some time. As for people hating on a game they dont play. Id rather be realistic then be a cuddly carebear who defends the game with HUGE blinders on LOL
        
        Heres my opinion
        
        The game went f2p before 1 year spin it how you like thats failure
        
        James ohlen/damion schubert/gabe ametegelo need to rethink their career choices. They have absolutely no idea wth they are doing and i gaurantee they would not last 1 day in the fast food industry where they belong. Seriously they have destroyed that game more then anyone could dream of
        
        1 million people plus left. You cant spin that and thats a FACT and its a legitimate point. this is not unvalidated and its the truth lol you choose to pretend that they didnt lose those people lol.
        
        Gabe ametegelo destroyed warhammers pvp he then came to swtor and repeated the same mistakes lol. Tbh you could probably create better pvp then him
        
        I got 3 people permabanned for exploiting inside a wall in the voidstar warzone.
        
        Legacy is rehased xp/space xp believe what you will.
        
        Your point is i dont play the game and all this and just spining crap. Your either a dev or your dads a dev or you really think swtor is good which in itself answers everyone’s questions here. Your not bieng realistic at all and your have blinders on thats whats really sad that you cant see what a pos swtor is lol
  - Revanhavoc
    
    How dare you refer to the Gannonator in that way I swear if I was your mother/father I would put you into timeout so fast. AND I would take away your Wii for a week! And no Oreo Ice Cream either!
    
    Tsk, tsk. The Gannonator is our leader and dissenting opinions will be eradicated. In fact you don’t exist to me anymore – actually you’re dead to me.
    
    I’m sorry, who are you?
    
    (Funeral music…)
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hargrave/100003202374593 Shawn Hargrave
  
  they arent they cant even make money now there to stupid to adapt. What i see happening is a big boost and f2p launch then those people will get to the end and get bored and quit like the rest of us. Theres no incentive to sub now so why would there be when it goes f2p? lol you can have 100 alts to cap but theyll all still have the same issue no open world pvp small amount of raids. The end game is what keeps subs not alts/legacy. Ea is saying there gonna get 50 mill new players lmao i heard john smedly say he was gonna 9 million players with the nge for swg look how that turned out?
Sharuko

There is zero % chance Titan is a FPS. Tigole is working on the game and is one of the top guys on the game and I really don’t picture him making a FPS, seems very unlikely.
- Nick Cattane
  
  So is it zero % chance or just very unlikely? lol, ultimate troll just spewing typical nonsense.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Grimm/1290540679 David Grimm
  
  Just cause you don’t want it to be an FPS and you feel Tigole would like an FPS less doesn’t mean it won’t be. You’re projecting what you would do onto Blizzard because you don’t understand why someone would make a different decision than you would.
  - Sharuko
    
    Who said I don’t want it to be an FPS? I wouldn’t mind it being a FPS. That said there is zero% change Tigole is making an FPS. Activision wouldn’t want to cannibalize their other shooter games anyway.
http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Mason/100004362941051 John Mason

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules. That was in the press conference plz get your facts straight its misleading and false. I don’t play wow but im not butthurt about it they are doing good big deal. Life goes on.
http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Grimm/1290540679 David Grimm

Maybe SWTOR has failed so hard on everything they’ve tried that the Legacy system is the least broken failure they have?

This Week In MMO Ep116: SWTOR, RIFT, Age Of Wushu, And More!

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Blue Flowers

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