World of Darkness MMO - This Week In MMO EP134 (VIDEO)

Written by: QuintLyn Bowers (@QuintLyn) | March 2, 2013 11:42 am

18 Comments

In this weeks TWIMMO, we talk vampires as CCP promises to show a bit of the World of Darkness MMO at Fanfest, our own Gary Gannon interviewed Mark Jacobs about Camelot Unchained, and Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes is laid to rest.

Ever since CCP acquired White Wolf, the creators of the popular tabletop and live action roleplay IP World of Darkness, fans of the IP have been waiting to get their hands on an MMO featuring it. So, when CCP announced a World of Darkness MMO, there was quite a bit of excitement.

Of course, the excitement was squashed a bit when CCP announced layoffs — which mostly hit their Atlanta offices and — we assume — their WoD team. But fans still have hope, so CCP’s recent announcement that they’ll be showing off a portion of the World of Darkness MMO at this year’s Fanfest and that the team has been playing the game internally should be pretty exciting for them.

Mark Jacobs’ new game is intentionally not for everyone.

If you’re hoping Camelot Unchained will be the next World of Warcraft, keep hoping. Jacobs has no intention of creating a game for the masses. Gary Gannon interviewed Mark for the first episode of GAMEBREAKER’s interview show and had him explain his philosophy behind the game as well as some of the things players can expect to see in it.

Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes shuts down.

No.. Not that Warhammer Online. There was another one. Apparently Mythic is shifting gears and will be working on mobile games from now on.

All that and more plus your viewer questions!

Tune in for news about The WarZ‘s return to Steam and Blizzard’s PAX East plans.

And don’t forget, we love your viewer questions — especially video ones. If you have a question you’d like answered on the show, send them to submit@gamebreaker.tv. Remember to make video questions 30 seconds long and upload them to YouTube. Then send us the link via email.

As always, if you missed last week’s episode you can check it out here.

World of Darkness MMO - This Week In MMO EP134 (VIDEO)

1:22:33

World of Warcraft

Legendary Ep126:
Raiding Ra-Den Revelations!

This week the Legendary crew are talking patch 5.3, raiding, and more with World First raider Treckie!Read more »

23 comments
45:25

Guild Wars 2

GuildCast Ep71:
Blue Flowers

The Secret of Southsun update has arrived, a Guild Wars 2 expansion has been confirmed, and more.Read more »

27 comments
57:02

Live Call-In Show

After Dark Ep32:
Could Bolvar “Lich King” Fordragon Return?

Could the Lich King return to help defend Azeroth against the Burning Legion?Read more »

13 comments

http://twitter.com/TweetrDavid David Reeves

I think what Blizz’s announcement is the MOBA they were working on, wasn’t it a new DOTA clone built in SC2?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Cloutier/587476376 Jason Cloutier

Cannot wait for camelot unchained. Played DAoC for 7 years because it was a challenge, and no MMO can capture that challenge. The fact that 8 people could fight and beat 40 if you played PERFECTLY and the fact that 40 could defend a keep against 300 was awesome.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Cloutier/587476376 Jason Cloutier

And I agree Gary, SWG was amazing. MY MCH had 2 rancor pets and it was glorious!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1269069188 Dimitris Chatz

Darkfall online had a great success using that system, and they are actually launching Darkfall 2 in a month.
Jado Cast

I have to say, I heard the same thing about RUIN and they do have a bad reputation. I was worried when they moved to Blackgate in GW2. But I have to say, they have been very respectful, and a great Guild since the day they arrived.

WvW type games need to have GvG, small skirmish game play, and zerg vs zerg. If the design incorporates all aspects of those things, it will be more successful because it attracts different play styles.

I agree with Jason, that PvP should always be skill based. I have no issue with someone beating me because they were better, but not because they played 10,000 more hours and have better gear just because they play more than I do. All you do in that case, is guarantee that your game will never have new players join PvP after the first year, which is just stupid.
http://www.facebook.com/spankthismonkey Thomas Vu

Great episode. I like the emotion everyone was portraying during the CU conversation. One complaint I do have is the fact that Jason and Hillary seemed like they new zero about the topic.

I am not saying they need to know every single minute detail, but at least go over a cliff notes version prior to the episode. Not only for CU, but also about whatever topic they are going to cover for the day.
- http://twitter.com/winterinformal Jason Winter
  
  I’ve read most of the blog posts Mark Jacobs has put out on the game, and I definitely look over the show notes beforehand. To what exactly were you referring?
  - http://www.facebook.com/spankthismonkey Thomas Vu
    
    Hey, thanks for the response.
    
    Sorry, I hope I didn’t come off as rude. I may have exaggerated about saying you guys know zero about CU, but there are some points that I hope to clarify in your podcast.
    
    First at 15 min; you spoke about AAA games cost being high which requires high subscription base to support. Which is true, and I completely agree with you. But to me, what MJ is making isn’t a AAA game since its going to be niche based and doesn’t have a giant company to financially support it. Its a game funded by the players, and supported by the players. So in essence it shouldn’t require a high cost, because the cost to produce the game is equivalent to how much the players had put in at the Kickstarter. Of course, if you have a different definition for what a AAA game means, then what I just said is moot.
    
    Second, at 17 min; the conversation was taken into how players were essentially being griefed in town by higher level players. According to one of MJ’s “Top Ten Questions: Will there be Ranks in the Game?”, there aren’t going to be levels in his game. He had went on to say that the game is based on horizontal skill progression and we shouldn’t be expecting the traditional leveling system. True, the game isn’t out yet, so it could still change.
    
    Third, at 24 min; Hillary spoke about gear based equipment being an issue in pvp. Which could have just been her trying to use that as an example of how a game could go wrong.
    
    True these are may be minor details, and possibly not something everyone would know. If they are then I apologize for sounding like a fanboy, I enjoy watching your show and I just wanted to help improve the experience.
    
    Thank you for reading my rant.
John Michael Calcagni

Very interested and absolutely stoked for Camelot Unchained. Excited to see older RPG elements being brought back into the MMO genre! Nothing wrong with a niche game. Not every game has to please every person, I would rather a game set their sights on a smaller community of players and create a product said community will truly enjoy! Another studio will eventually make a game that caters to the community who are not as receptive to a certain game.

And I completely agree with Gary. Even though the execution of mechanics in Star Wars Galaxies were far from perfect their vision was unique and if implemented properly could have been amazing. They fell short but the community in SWG kept a core group of players on their servers enjoying the majority of their time in game. It saddens me to say I have enjoyed MMOs in the recent past but never as passionately as SWG.

Let a game cater to a niche audience. Not every game has to be the net big thing for every MMO player. There are plenty of games to go around, games will be enjoyed by all types of gamers, we don’t all have to enjoy the same one!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003556514960 Zed Zeddakis

Wow! Did Gary forget to take his meds or something? He really needs to chill out a little in this episode.
DoctorOverlord

Entertaining and informative episode as always. Really good discussion this week.

I have two disparate views when it comes to risk/reward
depending on whether it is PvP or PvE.

If it’s PvP when I have no problem losing to someone who is
better and paying for it or facing unbalanced, open-world PvP zergs. Facing real players is what makes PvP exciting and it’s what I find to be a real challenge in
gaming. There don’t need to be pillows
to soften the fall from losing.   Losing
hard is an incentive to get better.

On the other hand, PvE content is more about learning the
tricks to beat the AI code for the mobs and bosses. And once you learn those tricks, beating the AI
becomes trivial. I’ve never enjoy PvE
content that is overly punishing.   The
AI will never get better and it’s an artificial punishment. The AI won because you haven’t learned what
hoops the developer wants you to jump through.   So as far as I’m concerned, PvE content might
as well be a rainbow and puppy dog dispenser to make players feel good.

The thing is I actually enjoy puzzle games like Portal and Myst but those games focus on the puzzle-solving element
rather than diluting it with combat and excessive twitch mechanics.

I realize most single player games going all way back to
Mario Bros follow the formula of making the player learn the tricks to win through
repetition, but given the choice between a difficult game based on beating an AI boss and a
difficult challenge based on fighting another player, I will always pick the
latter.
theunwarshed

having a group of players/guild in a game with the goal of driving away players and shutting down servers is cancerous for the community as a whole. what do we do in real life when we get cancer? we attempt to completely eradicate it. that’s what should be done to these types of players/guilds. game developers that passively allow such subversive elements to exist in their games are slitting their own throats. these players/guilds aren’t interested in healthy, competitive game play that helps a community thrive and grow. they are sadists, anarchists and other destructive types with a very skewed outlook on life who’ve brought their real world sickness into a shared virtual entertainment vehicle.
http://twitter.com/RussellGusto Russell Hunt

Think Gary is spot on with this. I’m SO TIRED of mmo’s just giving away feel good prizes, etc. GW2 is like that now. Hope Mark makes something that kicks everyone’s ass lol.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Bergevin-Jr/1393526370 Jim Bergevin Jr

I am reminded of the Ford Edsel and an anecdote from the time I ran a bowling center. Back in the day, our “elite” bowlers were asking for more challenging conditions on which to bowl as many at the time thought the lane conditions were “dumbed down” to make it easier for the less skilled bowlers to score well. After much QQing, we finally decided to give them what they wanted and it turned out, they didn’t like it so much, so we went back to the status quo.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of gamers don’t really know what they want. What we have are market examples of what attracts gamers and what rakes in the big bucks. Gaming is a business. That doesn’t preclude “niche” games from being profitable, but when you have big business trying to stay in business through good economic times, and especially bad economic times, you make games that will appeal to a wide market audience to at least try to ensure you have the biggest potential flow of income that you can. To me, a game where the fun is ruining other players’ fun is not a good game, and hence through example through the years, you find that those types of games really don’t last all that long. Games are meant as an escapism to real life, and when the grief in games starts to mimic real life, that becomes a problem.

Also thanks for the opinions on Action Combat. Part of my reason for asking has been the debate on the NW beta forums about the mouse lock and rooting system. personally, I have no problem with the roots and overall enjoyed the combat, though it appears at this point, because of the mouse lock (which I find to be a clumsy system at this point), melee characters have a distinct advantage over ranged characters. I did not have the opportunity to try my Cleric much in the Beta, and plan on doing a more in depth comparison this weekend, but melee was almost faceroll too easy while the caster-players I did talk too had a much more frustrating time with the targeting system. Therefore, much of the debate has been to allow for unlocked mouse control which many people feel will take away the “action combat” system of the game. My point is that it is not action combat in the truest sense of the term, and that having a “free roaming” mouse would not overly change the combat system, but remove some of the clunkiness while bringing the caster and melee characters closer together in terms of control.
Nils Amundsen

Now I remember while I love watching Gamebreaker shows with Gary. Honest and pointed discussion, kudos to all participants.
Mo0rbid

Completely agree with Gary, great episode!
Sharuko

This was a great episode, it is nice to see debates that Gary and Pokket were having. People just don’t have to always agree with each other.

About gender/races having stat differences. I think it is a great idea and I would love to see that. I disagree with Pokket saying it should shutdown in 2 years because of that. I mean most MMOs shut down quickly anyway. PS2 didn’t have stat differences and already had server mergers. I don’t think Mark Jacobs is backing down from that as it is one of his Founding principles.

About “action combat”, people that are new to action combat games don’t understand that the rooting mechanic is in most action games. People think “action combat” means fast, when that is not the real definition of the genre. Rooting is in place because you are committing to an action and can pay consequences if you miss judge. Without rooting it becomes a mindless spamfest with no consequences.

There is “rooting” in Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Diablo, Dark Souls, Witcher 2, God of War even games like Street Fighter.
Scrivean

I agree with Gary on about everything in this episode. Still looking for a risk/reward MMO, SWG was my first MMO as well. My best memories were after unlocking Jedi of being jumped by other players (forced PVP) and the battles that followed. It meant something as losing meant losing xp and sometimes skills, and more time to ;level up. Throw in a very competetive crafting system and it was great, all pre-NGE/CU.
Loved this episode.

World of Darkness MMO - This Week In MMO EP134 (VIDEO)

In this weeks TWIMMO, we talk vampires as CCP promises to show a bit of the World of Darkness MMO at Fanfest, our own Gary Gannon interviewed Mark Jacobs about Camelot Unchained, and Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes is laid to rest.

Mark Jacobs’ new game is intentionally not for everyone.

Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes shuts down.

All that and more plus your viewer questions!

Legendary Ep126:
Raiding Ra-Den Revelations!

GuildCast Ep71:
Blue Flowers

After Dark Ep32:
Could Bolvar “Lich King” Fordragon Return?

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