Trinity Terminated?

It looks like we’ll get a sweet slice of Tyria early.

ArenaNet announced that there will be another stress test for Guild Wars 2 on August 2 — I hope you didn’t miss it.

In other news, the fabulously named Mike Zadorojny has been answering questions about the content that so many are waiting to get their hands on with abandon in just a few weeks. Just what does he mean by “mini-dungeons?” It also seems that the much anticipated water-themed fourth sPvP map is not as definite as we may have thought. Are bets being hedged or is it off the table at launch?

We consider the likelihood as well as consider the perception of future content for the non-subscription MMO.

The inestimable Mike Schaffnit took the premise of “No Holy Trinity” and tested it out with a crew in Ascalon Catacombs. Could a DPS focused group pull off a dungeon and prove ArenaNet’s dynamic combat claims? We consider the run and what it means as GW2 looms ever nearer.

We received some truly awesome viewer questions this week, including one that blew GuildCast’s mind…

Join GAMEBREAKER’s Gary Gannon, Scott Hawkes and Massively‘s Richie “Bogotter” Procopio for a sinisterly sensational edition of GuildCast!

A veteran MMO player of over 13 years, Scott is a writer, editor and educator with a passion for gaming. He can be found smiling blankly over his guardian in Guild Wars2, lane running in League of Legends, or pulling off audacious headshots in Battlefield 3. Scott is Editor In Chief for ZAM and a regular co-host on GuildCast.
  • Dixhallpike

    Wohooo! I have been waiting for this all morning. Gonna make a nice snack and watch this now!

  • Shagral

    GuildCast, BuildCast AND GW2 stress test on the same day? What is this, x-mas?

    • ScottHawkes

      Yes but without the family obligations. Oh the bliss.

      • http://twitter.com/elixabethclaire Elisabeth Claire

         No crazy awesome breakfast buffets either, though.

  • Volkon

    I don’t know if the GuildCast folks get a chance to read these comments, but I’d like to offer that not only is the trinity dead in GW2, roles themselves are dead. When you look at the “damage, control and support” aspects of combat in GW2, then look at the skills you have on your weapons, your utility skills, etc. it becomes clear that it’s practically impossible to any character to be damage, control or support. Yes, you can trait to be more heavily leaning in one direction or another, but everyone will have damage, control and support at their fingertips. It’s no longer a matter of what your role is in combat, it’s a matter of you using the right skills at the right time for the situation you find yourself in. You could have an elementalist heavily traited into water (more support focused), but if they simply try and do nothing mut support they’re letting the team down heavily. They have four attunements regardless, and it may be far more important for the situation at hand for them to be switching to earth for some added control, then fire for more damage and hitting water for added support at need. (If your team “gets it”, they’ll be avoiding as much damage as possible anyhow.)

    It’s time to stop thinking in the archaic “roles” mindset and think situationally. Balanced builds are most likely to reign supreme in GW2 and anyone that tries to specialize in anything, including damage, will ultimately become a drag on the group as the difficulty of encounters increases through the game and people need to think more on the fly and react to what’s happening in front of them. Roles were great for hard-scripted encounters, such as in WoW. Roles are meaningless in GW2.

    • ScottHawkes

      Fair point Volkin, what I would say is with so much time spent with engaging in games with defined roles it isn’t surprising that the terminology is still quick to fall from the tongue.
      Also, you are fulfilling certain needs that fall into those roles at various times, but as we said in the show and as you mention, attempting to completely “spec” into one focus is likely to be inefficient and ineffective.
      Glass cannon builds can be a lot of fun, but foregoing all utility will be both difficult and almost always unwise.
      What GW2 focuses is on is adaptability and response in a more moment to moment paradigm than the Holy Trinity approach. I think both concepts of combat have their place, but as I mentioned I also think that it’s great to have variety.
      Thanks for the comment.

      • Volkon

        You spelled my name wrong. I’m wounded. :(

        Appreciate the reply!

  • Ben Cornforth

    STILL BEST ENDING EVER FOR GUILDCAST

    • Gamizero

      this is why Gary has that broadcasting background.  for endings like these. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/stosic.nemanja Немања Стошић

      People believe that it’s amateur if it’s only on Internet but I think GC is better than all the talk-shows on TV :D

  • Aelskafotboll

    I still can´t figure out where to find the Buildcast episode(s?)

    I found a link in the forums for the first episode, but that´s it.

    Did episode 2 come out yet? If so, where the heck do I find it?!

    • Jant0n

       Go to http://www.twitch.tv/gamebreakertv/videos as of right now it is the 3rd video down labeled “GUILDCAST 6PST – BUILDCAST 8PST”

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002530168528 Nikolaas Wajon

       search for them in the top right of the page, not that hard :P

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002530168528 Nikolaas Wajon

         its not up ATM

      • Aelskafotboll

        Ty!

        I never noticed that search function.

  • P V

    freaky ending :) 

  • http://www.facebook.com/rodriguezcorreamiguel Miguel Rodriguez

    LOL That ending.

  • http://twitter.com/Tjoerin Tjoerin

    Regarding the character customization: I want more beards on the humans, damnit…  also, the human males look like babies… and one Clint Eastwood.

    • MysticLlamaMan

      It is a REALLY good Clint Eastwood face though!

      • Jant0n

         I haven’t really messed with the human character creator too much I’m going to have to look for that one; I love Clint Eastwood. I did notice a face for the norn that looked suspiciously like Liam Neeson.

        • Jay

           Lol I couldn’t put a name to it, but yes! That’s who that face reminded me of!

    • Old Ben

      And it’s a pre-Dirty-Harry Clint, too. It looks like humans in Tyria either have amazing plastic surgeons or all die before 30.

      Must be the former, now that I think about it. There are some NPCs called “Old Man” and “Old Woman” roaming Divinity’s Reach. They have 80 year old voices… and 18 year old faces.

  • Jant0n

    Great Episode! Loved Sabina’s (don’t know if i spelled that right, so sorry in advance) question I think it was by far the best question they have had; too bad Elixabeth wasn’t there for that one I have a feeling she would have loved that question.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aaron-Cutright/1074012672 Aaron Cutright

    I like the transmutation idea because I looked at the dungeon armors and by favorite I have seen is a lower level dungeon set. I will work hard to get that set and then keep that look for a long time. 

    • RolyVento

      This is a very cool feature, copy and paste the look for armor and weapon onto other upgrades, this is brilliant!!!

  • Jeffrey _

    Sabina is awesome!

  • Dixhallpike

    Im getting a little annoyed with questions about best specc for dps (Mikes “breaking the trinity” vid doesnt help). People really need to understand that they need to embrace all aspects of the class mechanics to be succesful in GW2. GW2 is about adapting to the situation while also work as a group.

    Bringing up questions like the guardian dps question doesnt help people to understand GW2s game design. And certainly not “Breaking the trinity” video wich makes people more confused!

    Seems to me that the audience of the GW2 shows has a better understanding of the game than the GB crew (you had even one more BWE to play than the rest). Atleast try not being so clueless when it comes to game design and mechanics. Educate the new audience properly while keep the discussion on a level that we who has been following the game for a while find it stimulating.

    The level of discussion about game mechanics is on the same level as when Ruby was on the show trying to explain to Gary how fundamental mechanics works.

  • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

    I really do enjoy this show.  You guys are great!

    Favorite Scott quote of the week “Already bought it, tough luck.”  Hidden truth in sarcasm. 

    Loved Scott’s smarmy “Other MMOs” comment about beta testing, while Arenanet is clearly holding back on public testing of content. 

    When Richie was creating a male Asura, he went with the bald hair style, probably due in part on the uninspiring hair styles. (unless you go for the Afro)  Not sure if he went bald on any other character classes. 
    While I loved the customization options on the Asura eyes, the lack of customization on the hair was noticeable.   It does make alot of Asura look the same.   Haven’t seen such static hair movement in years.   Challenged accepted for the stress test, see if I can find a ponytail that will sway back and forth.    

    • Old Ben

      Male Asuras definitely need more hairstyles. At the very least a mohawk and a couple of “scientist” haircuts (bald at the top, hair at the back and sides, short for sane scientists and long for mad scientists).

      The lack of movement doesn’t bother me much (in the Asuras; human hair should definitely move). After all, they’re a different species, and maybe their hair is stiffer, like copper wire.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Would like more Asura hair options.

        The “Doc Brown” from Back to the Future
        Dr. Strangelove

        Wouldn’t be surprised if Arenanet had to “glue” the hair in place because of the dodge mechanic.   It was just a surprise.

        • Old Ben

          Why would dodging be different from any other kind of movement? Hair movement (for ponytails, etc.) is generally handled by a physics simulation; they can then animate the character any way they want, and the hair will react to that.

          I didn’t play any long-haired characters in this stress test (or in the previous two BWEs), but I noticed that the option for “high quality animations” (which is disabled by default) mentions that it affects things such as cloth and water simulation, so it might also affect hair (cloth and hair physics are very similar).

          I also noticed that some animations (like the asura “skidding” animation when you stop strafing) weren’t working in this stress test (but were in BWE3), so my guess is they’re still making some changes to the character animation framework, and some things are probably disabled.

  • Lek Stacy

    I would love to see Mike S and Friends go into Ascalon
    Catacombs with as close to a dedicated Tank, dedicated Healer and dedicated DPS
    as possible and compare how the two runs felt. I realise there isn’t enough
    time in a beta weekend to do that, but I think the comparison would be interesting.
    If Mike S decides to continue with the breaking the Trinity series, I want to see
    the trinity get broken.   

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      It would be interesting to see if Arenanet allowed you to re-design the professions to allow for a dedicated tank, healer and dps.  How much harder would Arenanet have to design the dungeons to keep them as a challenge.

      • Old Ben

        A “dedicated tank” only works with “special needs” AI (i.e., dumbed down creatures that will keep attacking the tank even though he’s the least threatening target).

        And to make a “dedicated healer” feel useful, Arena Net would need to add a lot of unavoidable damage, which would effectively make skill (dodging, blocking, blinding, kiting) less relevant. It’s like adding a “dedicated speed booster” class and then having to add a lot of unavoidable slows (and remove speed buffs from other classes) just to make those players feel useful.

        As to a “dedicated DPS” (meaning a glass cannon), it can only succeed if the other two roles exist (to make sure the “dedicated DPS” never gets aggro and gets healed of all the unavoidable damage). Otherwise, without defensive or self-healing abilities, he’s going to spend most of his time dead.

        So it’s not a matter of “letting players redesign the professions”, that’s simply not GW2′s combat model. GW2′s PvE combat is designed to be as similar to PvP as possible (i.e., it’s a combat model that doesn’t rely on the stupidity of the enemies).

        You can fill your skill bar with healing spells, you can go for a glass cannon build, and you can wear heavy armor with a lot of toughness. But don’t expect the AI to pick the worst possible target, just as you wouldn’t expect human players to focus their attacks on a “tank” while leaving the glass cannons and healers stand there casting freely.

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          Not necessarily.  If you take away the threat multipliers and allow the tank to dps with the rest of them, the tank would have to maintain the highest threat based on dps.  If you nerf the tanks dps, you have to buff their threat generators.  For this discussion, let’s not do that, let the tank keep agro through dps. (Of course the reason for the tank dps nerfs is so you don’t stack all tanks in a instance.)

          If you add the dedicated healer back to a GW2 encounter, you would have to add mana back to the design.  Allowing a GW2 dedicated healer to cast healing spells without mana constraint would break traditional trinity rules.  Dedicated healers have to manage the spells they are casting, don’t waste mana. Save your big heals for when you need them.

          Glass cannon dps, yep, you would need the other two part of the trinity.

          With that said, the design of GW2 is to not have dedicated roles.  But, the roles still exist.  You need control, dps and heals.  Without controls(tanking) the boss goes around and kills all the party members, without dps the boss never dies and without heals the players could not heal themselves, could not indirectly heal other and could not revive someone from a down state.

          • Old Ben

            >  the tank would have to maintain
            > the highest threat based on dps

            If a highly armored character is doing the same DPS as a character with less armor, the preferable target is the one with less armor (because he can be killed faster).

            In other words, the “tank” wouldn’t merely have to match the DPS of the “damage dealers”, he would actually have to do a lot _more_ DPS than the other (easier to kill) characters to make him the preferred target.

            And if the character with the most survivability could _also_ do the most DPS, then _everybody_ would pick that spec.

            In other words, you’ve just eliminated the difference between “tank” and “damage-dealer”, thus destroying the holy trinity (i.e., a combat model based on those 3 specific roles).

            > If you add the dedicated healer [...]

            If you add the dedicated healer and make him _necessary_ (by adding unavoidable damage), then suddenly the _healer_ becomes the preferred target, because killing him first is a death sentence for the other ones. That means the _healer_ must now have as much survivability as the other guys.

            In other words, you’ve just arrived at something very similar to GW2′s combat model (or the combat model used in PvP), simply by making the enemies smarter and forcing the players to adapt.

            Or, to put it another way, the “holy trinity” model can only work if the AI behaves in deliberately stupid ways, and its main purpose is to make life easier for players that can’t adapt to dynamic situations..

            > Allowing a GW2 dedicated healer to cast
            > healing spells without mana constraint
            > would break traditional trinity rules. 

            The trinity model has nothing to do with mana. Mana is rarely (if ever) an issue in WoW dungeon runs these days, and healers are usually more limited by casting speed, healing power, and spell cooldowns (the last two being the main mechanisms used in GW2). 

            > But, the roles still exist. You
            > need control, dps and heals.

            Control, damage and support are not combat “roles”, they’re simply types of actions. There is no direct correspondence between them and class roles in trinity-based games. For example, mages in WoW are a DPS class and yet they have and regularly perform several control and support abilities (ex., frost nova, polymorph, time warp, arcane brilliance, remove curse).

    • http://twitter.com/elixabethclaire Elisabeth Claire

       The problem with this run is it didn’t really highlight the strength of GW2′s design. Saying “we want you all to run DPS” is just as far away from ANet’s design goals as “we want you to run a healer, a tank, and 3 DPS.” 

      • Old Ben

        One of the problems with MikeS’ video was calling them “DPS”. He should have just called them “glass cannons” or something like that, to make it clear their defining “feature” was the lack of survivability, healing and control skills.

        As the saying goes, dead people do 0 DPS, and, if he had died less, his average damage per second would probably have been _higher_ than it was.

        Also, several WoW dungeons _are_ doable with 5 glass cannons, so that “challenge” didn’t really prove anything. Arena Net never said the “holy trinity” is “unnecessary” in GW2, they said it wasn’t _possible_ at all, because WoW-style “tanking” simply doesn’t exist in GW2 (and healing is also very different). 

        The way to “prove” that fact (if it’s not obvious from looking at the list of abilities) is to do exactly the opposite. Designate one player as “the tank”, another as “the healer”, forbid everyone else from casting healing spells, and see how “the healer” completely fails to keep other players alive, and how “the tank” fails to hold aggro.

        Although a party consisting of 5 glass cannons is inefficient (and won’t stand a chance against higher-level content), it’s probably still _more_ viable than three glass canons, a dedicated healer, and a guy who _thinks_ he’s the tank (but has no way to convince the enemies of that).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002038208867 Dan Winborne

    Nooo, I need my ‘Elix’ir fix!

  • Iwerks

    Excellent show! +50 points to Sabina. Also, it’s worth noting that there are titles in this game. So, creating a character like “Zoe the Alchemage” at the start of the game, and earning the “Rift Warden” (as an example from the Hall of Monuments) title will yield “Rift Warden Zoe the Alchemage”. It may not be quite what you expected from Ree’s examples, but it’s close!

    As for challenging PvE content, there are both timed events (as you guys were hoping) and complex events that do not simply buckle under a zerg. Caravan escorts are a particularly good example of this, where the zerg mentality clears out all the ambushes from the front, while the enemies that flank the caravan kill the dolyak and make off with the goods before anyone knows what happened.

    Also, the PvE min-dungeons are ridiculous in complexity. Having played with the underwater dungeon for over half-an-hour, a group of strangers and I finally reasoned how to get past the traps and puzzles, only to meet with a horribly difficult boss who didn’t take kindly to our invasion. the 8 or so of us were dead quite quickly. The dungeons are not for the faint-hearted. They hurt.

  • http://www.facebook.com/blackdogserenade Remington Hitchcock

    Best ending of this show so far. I gave it a private applause.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sbradsby Skyler Bradsby

    I’m not saying it was aliens… but it was aliens

  • Peter Maurice

    I love how everything GW says is so against the establishment and you all applaud them.  Gamebreaker you do realize there is 30 millions MMO players out there that are getting mocked every time a GW dev tells them everything they like about MMO’s is garbage and they are doing it better or different…

    • ArsenicSundae

      You done being a drama queen?

      ArenaNet has never said everyone else is doing it wrong.  Their stance has always been that there are other ways and the only thing that other companies have failed it is attempting to explore them.  They recognize areas where the status quo is weak and try to improve them.  They’ve never said that the way things have existed in the past are wrong, only that there is room for improvement.  For that, they are deserving of applause.

      ArenaNet doesn’t disparage people for clinging to flawed systems.  They are professionals.  I however am not, so I have no problem stating that your flat earth myopia is directly responsible for that stagnation we’ve seen over the last several years in the industry.  Just don’t put my words in their mouths.  That’s my opinion, not ANet’s.

    • Old Ben

      Remember when millions of people used gas lamps and then some idiots like Edison and Tesla started mocking everyone by suggesting that electricity was a step forward? 

      Well, maybe you don’t remember it and, to be honest, I was pretty young myself, in those days, but trust me: That “electricity” thing isn’t going anywhere. People are used to gas, they like gas, and anyone suggesting or experimenting with alternatives is just insulting gas users.

      • Jay

        And now we have something as ugly as a Prius roaming the streets… Then again, that new Porsche 918 is pretty nice. Electric hybrid capable of over 200 mph? Yes, please.

        Good point though, Ben. I’ve always said GW2 is more of an evolution than a revolution.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        So with new home construction, having a gas stove, gas heat, outdoor gas lighting, and gas outdoor grill are considered upgrades.   Vs the old all-electric house.  

        Sometime a Gas stove (old reliable MMO tanks) are better than a new all-electric kitchen.

         

        • Old Ben

          And you posted that from your gas-powered computer, I bet.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/T2CF4DYZNZBU3MGDQOADWCBWQE Big

       Quote from Bill Maher: Eat shit, 20 trillion flies can’t be wrong.

    • Robert Scullion

      From your comment it sounds as if you play a different MMO and have no intention of playing GW2 (which is fine, if you play a game you enjoy then no one should tell you that it’s bad, enjoyment is a personal thing), but you seem to be missing the whole point of releasing a new MMO.  You “accuse” the devs of telling you that their game is both “different” and “better” and while these terms are subjective I don’t understand how that could upset you.

      Firstly, I would find it hard to believe that you don’t see the merit in them calling their game “different”.  It would seem to most people that through both their design philosophy and the game-play mechanics that they are in fact trying to offer something “different” from other MMO’s currently available.

      Secondly, I cannot think of a single game developer who would design a game not trying to make it “better” that other games of it’s type that are out there.  Calling your game “better” seems like something all devs do regardless of what game they are making and is pretty harmless in it’s context.

      I’m not quite sure how you managed to feel slighted by either, but then again, I’ve never been able to understand the point behind posting negative comments about a game I have no interest in, I generally just ignore games I don’t like.  Seeking out information on them seems like a waste of your time.

  • http://twitter.com/LoreChief Nicholas Forbus

    In regards to players trying out the untested content.  It’s only a gamble on OUR part, not ANets. If the content isn’t ready, they aren’t going to shove it at us and go “oh well play it while we bug fix!”.  As the players, we should be confident in the company’s ability to produce fun, functional content without players needing to test it beforehand.

    • Old Ben

      Well, it’s a gamble on the player’s part in the sense that they’re buying a game that might not be fully tested, but it’s also a gamble on Arena Net’s part because any bugs found in those areas will influence reviews of the game, forum posts, etc., and affect future sales.

      Issues that players and reviewers would overlook during a beta test (“beta is beta”, “I’m sure they’ll fix this”, etc.) might get a lot more coverage after launch.

  • Morturion

    Roflmao. They talk about “The holy trinity is dead” and then say “He cleared a dungeon with 5 DPS” The trinity might be outdated, but everybody still thinks in its terms …

    • Arkanthos

      Think about what trinity means, then when u get that think what holy  in the trinity means. After that u will see that DPS is a term not connected with trinity term:)

  • http://twitter.com/willypallen William Allen

    Great show guys, one of my favs so far.

  • pandora005

    One thing is missing from the character customization:

    VOICES.

    I think Baldurs Gate 2 and all the Neverwinter Nights games had choices or at least significantly different ones for the different characters. 

    • Old Ben

      I think we can thank the “personal stories” for that. They probably decided it would be too expensive to record every line for every personal story in more than one voice.

      • Depravity

        Thanks fuck. At least they didn’t do Swtor’s mistake of investing half the budget into f. voice-overs.

        • Old Ben

          I think they should add at least one extra voice for each race / gender, and sell more voice packs at the gem store, even if they don’t affect the cutscenes in the personal story. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

            Or maybe some sort of voice changer consumable …
            I am pretty sure my character’s voice was constantly swapping between male and female during the stress test for that noise they make when jumping. I wasn’t near anyone in most of those cases so it shouldn’t have been anyone else.

        • Jay

           Lol Swtor is still paying for that mistake…

          • pandora005

            The voiceovers in the personal story are the one thing which makes that game come alive and thus I would disagree with you that they are the thing which made the game not as successful as it needed to be. Its the lack of innovation in other areas which made it bad.

            Arenanet is trying to give us innovation on all possible fronts (“questing”, combat system, classes, personal customization, WvWvW, ….) and thus it would be just another area to add to the list if they added voice customization. Just imagine if you could choose a scottish voice for your char … or be a dude from Texas, or a snobbish noble voice … that would be soo awesome. Maybe for GW3 …

          • Moodib

            I think you missed the point that Depravity was making. They dumped so much money into Voice in SWTOR that they couldn’t invest money into other areas of development. Thus the game flopped. If they had spread money more evenly, perhaps the game would have been a success. The voice acting wouldn’t have been as good in that case though.

          • Old Ben

            What makes you say they “dumped so much money into voice” ? Have you seen a cost breakdown for SWTOR? Because I’m pretty sure no one else has.

            You can record hours and hours of dialog for the cost of one second of those CGI movies at the start. Even if you look just at the in-game cutscenes, the voice is cheap part (compared to modeling and texturing the characters, doing motion capture, lip-synching and facial animation, etc.). 

            I doubt it would cost Arena Net more than $2k to record each new voice for GW2 characters, as long as those voices affected only normal gameplay (and not the story cutscenes).

          • pandora005

            How many lines do you think the personal stories in GW2 have and how many regular sounds a char makes? That isnt a lot and if you go about it in a quick way you could get that done in 1-2 days per voice IMO. The key is NOT to strive for “perfect” voices (like we have now in many dialogues), because they sound somewhat sterile. So it could be almost anyone and even people who are hard to understand (heavy scottish accent). That means it should be VERY QUICK to actually do it and thus not really expensive.

            For SWTOR there is a lot more dialogue and it might have been expensive, but the point here is adding choice to GW2.

          • Jay

             Oh I didn’t say the inclusion of voice overs were bad, we were saying the amount of focus on them led to a lack of development in other areas. They tried to ride the whole, “We got stories!” trick… Like you said, that’s not enough to cut it anymore. If they would tried to improve the overall package instead of just adding stories and Star Wars paint, they would’ve been much better off.

          • pandora005

            I dont think the inclusion of voiceovers in that game made them unwilling to innovate in other areas. They were trying do create WoW with a personal story and it turns out thats not enough to make people stay.

          • Jay

             You mean like where I said, “That’s not enough to cut it anymore. If they would tried to improve the
            overall package instead of just adding stories and Star Wars paint, they
            would’ve been much better off.”

            Are you even reading my comments? It seems like you’re just wording what I say differently, then trying to disagree for the sake of disagreeing.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

            I don’t think it is ‘all possible fronts’, just ‘some’. It is more like the good bits from various games.

            You missed another possibility with the voices. The voices should be different depending on whether you are charming, dignified, ferocious or some combination. I do recall a bit of that in the human story but my memory is fuzzy.

  • MachlinAshe

    Gary… you made me laugh so hard I accidentally hit the donate button and punched in my credit card info… accidentally.  Thanks.

  • http://twitter.com/mjedwards15 Mathew Edwards

    The humans are aliens.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XO5K43JLD447HQTHN5QL3P6FOY Brian

    Lol awesome ending.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Raymond-Macduff/660827451 Kevin Raymond Macduff

    loved the ending something tells me Garry is an alien he did not answer 

  • Old Ben

    I’m pretty sure places like Barradin’s Vaults also fall under their definition of “mini-dungeon”. Basically any semi-linear area with more than one boss falls into the generic definition of an MMO “dungeon” (but they only use the term “dungeon” for the 5-man instanced ones).

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Caliolo/100003765889295 Robert Caliolo

    You get transmutaion stones by doing the city explore objectives. Save them for later

  • RockerDC3

    On server rivalry and cross-server queues: Why not default to cross-server for the quick pop, but add an option for “local only” that will restrict the queue to only the player’s server? A note would need to be added to this option indicating the potential of extending the wait time.

    Best. Of. Both. Worlds.

  • http://twitter.com/Leithian Duane Lee Hampson

    After the stress test I still feel that ranged has a clear advantage over melee. They are going to have to make sure encounter enemies have as many devastating range effects as melee ones to keep a balance there.

    I only played 4 classes highest I got to was 23 on my warrior and around 15 on an elementalist being next highest. Warrior with a rifle was almost untouchable, equip those melee weapons though and I was dead a lot.

    Hopefully they get that balance worked out before launch. Clear animations for different attacks would be awesome so you have some idea you may need to dodge. Dare I mention this is something Tera actually did well…..

    • Diequex

      Is this a jab at PVE or PVP? I feel alot of people criticize ranged v. melee with implications toward toward one without being clear what they’re discussing. If it’s PVE…then yeah, I would agree…but I don’t feel that’s really an issue with the Warrior. Their melee capabilities, as far as I leveled (highest I got to was 17 in zones with mobs 3-4 levels higher than me) was completely fine. Was able to do a lot of damage while switching between my Axe/Warhorn and Greatsword without too much trouble.

      I moreover felt incompetent as a melee Thief. Some changes they made to the sword made melee feel more viable, but the squishy-ness of a thief made it hard not to just stick with Pistols or a Shortbow. Perhaps making animations more definitive like you mentioned would help. I really enjoy the Thief class, but missing a key Evade felt very unforgiving; though this was BWE2 for me, did structured PVP instead of PVE with my Thief in 3.

      • http://twitter.com/Leithian Duane Lee Hampson

         Yes this was in re-guard to PvE didnt do a whole lot of PvP. It just seems that when ranged has such a favorable survival rate over melee there really is no incentive to weapon swap from rifle. Kiting with a rifle is just so easy.

        I only played Thief to 4 or 5 had sword and pistol. Didnt really get into any situations to give good feedback for that class. Was hoping it would be more stealth based than it seemed to be. Sword gave the teleport type ability which put you out of range and back in when you clicked a 2nd time.

        Was just watching the Ranger pvp odd to see a 2 handed sword as a weapon choice. Surely you would be thinking Range(r) bows / guns.

        • Diequex

          I see where you’re coming from, kiting as ranged definitely feels too easy in comparison to melee. I hope the issue is simply due to us experiencing low level content and the mobs not featuring A.I. tendencies that are too difficult. I would hate to feel obligated to play ranged on my Thief later in the game due to getting 2-3 shotted up close. I understand that movement/evading is important but survivability as melee is just too low for my taste.

          And yeah, the ability to teleport with the sword is what I felt made staying alive as a Thief a little easier despite being squishy, really cool skill

      • Jay

         Couldn’t agree more.

    • Jay

       I agree completely. PVP is more than fine, but in PVE we suffer. I’m mainly a Thief, so I definitely know what you mean. I’ve gotten better at shadow-stepping to evade, but since they remove the 100% Initiative on weapon swap, I really feel outclassed compared to heavy plate wearers.

      My warrior has no trouble standing in there for the most part, and my Guardian is just cake… I wish they would just give Thieves 4 dodges instead of 2. It just fits the idea of a Thief, being able to evade better than others.

      • pandora005

        Why does everything have to be “fair” in games these days and every class have the same lack of weaknesses against everything? Life isnt fair and I dont see how  the “strategic” disadvantage of standing next to the guy with the big sword – compared to standing 20m away – can be made fair.

        Life isnt fair … deal with it.

        • Jay

           First, we’re not talking about life… We’re talking about a game.

          Second, it’s called “balance”… It’s the devs job to make the game as balanced as possible, and they know this. They have addressed the issue, so it’s not something that was intended. It’s a simple concept of risk and reward; the higher the risk, the higher the reward should be.

          Never did I say “fair” nor did I say the game was broken. If you read my comment thoroughly, you’ll realize that I like the challenge, and would just prefer some simple tweaks to the Thief profession to make it more fit to the role. Remember, the key word here is… *balance*

          ArenaNet themselves said they just start focusing on balance so a lot of mechanics will change before launch… Deal with it.

          • pandora005

            Even a game is more interesting if there are clear distinctions between classes.

            EXAMPLE:
            If you know the D&D rules you might want to look at the 4e rules (balanced and all classes have the same structure of development), which is a terribly boring set of rules simply because each class is the same as any other … just colored differently. Compare that ruleset to the one for 3rd edition and you will see what I mean. Spellcasters could run out of spells eventually and the balancing for melee classes came through them being able to swing their swords all day long. That gives you a really different experience when you play a different class.

            I really hope this example makes it clear that too much whining for balance – which cant really be achieved for ranged vs melee classes without screwing up the whole system – can lead to terrible game design. Classes being too much “the same” are bad and ANet is walking a tightrope there.

            One final question: How do you measure “balance” and “efficiency” in GW2? I cant think of a way. There will always be classes who dont have to work as hard in an encounter, but there will always be players who LIKE A CHALLENGE. Sadly there will always be idiots who ask for “ez safe mode” coupled with “max dps”. Its that “grass is always greener on the other side of the fence” thing.

          • Jay

             Once again, I’m not sure you read my comment… You surely didn’t comprehend.

            “It’s a simple concept of risk and reward; the higher the risk, the
            higher the reward should be.

            Never did I say “fair” nor did I say the game was broken. If you read my
            comment thoroughly, you’ll realize that I like the challenge, and would
            just prefer some simple tweaks to the Thief profession to make it more
            fit to the role.”

            When did I say I want all the classes to be the same? I said clearly that Warriors and Guardians do more than fine… We were talking about Thieves and the lack of compensation for the low armor they have. I’m not going to keep recopying my posts just for you to understand. Just read more thoroughly next time before you jump on your podium.

            If any profession should be strong in melee range, it should be a Thief… Steal skill, our personal profession skill, puts us in melee range. Giving Thieves an extra boost to stamina regen for dodging only makes sense to me. It fits the role from an RP perspective and also compensates for the low armor. It would also differentiate the profession from others, making it feel unique… Isn’t that what you were just going on about?

            Just try to read a bit more slowly before you jump the gun.

          • Ian Mansfield

            each Class is very distinct in its play style not in its effectiveness,

             no class should be left out to feel useless in any situation when the whole idea of  power over the game is based on Player skill. 

            That being said, if one class has stats that completely overshadow an-others its not doing justices to the concept of power through skill, rather than power through mathmatical stat balance. NOW! back to Ranged vs melee, I find yes, ranged attacks seem a bit strong and lack an immediate disadvantage but the main problem is Projectile speed and aim, I feel this should be something that should be lowered, and really be shown by the ranged weapons you wield, like guns projectiles should be faster but maybe less precise and easier to dodge by not just dodge rolling while arrows should be a tad slower with a wider range of accuracy . Magic weapons should kind of be in between or all over cause thats a weird thing to logically place, still Ranged vs melee, Ranged right now has an easy advantage.

          • pandora005

            If you lower projectile speed and aim you will just make all ranged classes feel useless. When I “run with a mob” to do a dynamic event there are many many of my spells which dont even land at all because the mobs are already dead. So I think the solution should be elsewhere.

            I also disagree that every class NOT having the same utility in an encounter as another class is NOT THE SAME as “feeling useless”. Being slightly less powerful (because you have to dodge more instead of stabby stabby) should be acceptable since all classes are expected to do that.

            I feel the solution to this should be in the number of hit points and a thief – as one of those classes with low hit points – seems in the wrong group. Taking the Necromancer out of the “top tier” would be the first thing and putting him and the Thief into the middle tier the second.

            The solution should come from survivability and not through an adjustment of damage dealing.

        • Old Ben

          Because if one type of weapon or character class is clearly better than the rest, then everybody will pick that one, and the time the developers invested on the other ones (creating models, animations, effects, etc.) is kind of wasted. By tweaking the numbers a bit they can make all weapons and classes (more or less) equally desirable, which adds variety to the game and makes the most of the assets they’ve already created.

          That doesn’t mean some won’t have an advantage in certain situations, but the increased survivability given by ranged weapons affected pretty much all classes in all situations, and at a very small cost in terms of damage done to a single target (although melee has always had better AoE).

          Guardians seem pretty viable in melee PvE, but warriors and thieves probably need a bit of tweaking (ex., slightly shorter cooldowns on some defensive skills).

          • pandora005

            But what if each class has its strength in a different area? Would you switch your character just because another class is supposedly better at beating encounter 3483? If people are doing that they are clearly stupid.

            In a gear based MMO you have clear differences between classes for a bossfight (easily defined on the damagemeter), BUT GW2 isnt like that and everyone has to dodge, revive, trigger stuff, … and consequently it is much less clear which class is better for an encounter since your personal playing style AND your traits also play a role. If you are a “melee class” (like Thief) and you are too dumb to pick up a bow when it is easier (=better) then its YOUR FAULT and not ANets when you die a lot.

            People should stop thinking in categories of “max dps”, because those are just dick size comparisons and not at all valid in GW2. You HAVE TO LEARN to think as part of a team and thus “class efficiency” is totally moot.

          • Old Ben

            > Would you switch your character just because
            > another class is supposedly better at beating
            > encounter 3483? If people are doing that they are
            > clearly stupid.

            No, if people did that, they would be clearly smart, because they would be picking the right “tool” for the job. That’s like saying people shouldn’t change their skills to match the thing they want to achieve. That’s the whole point of the game (that’s why they give you 20+ skills and let you change them at any moment as long as you’re not in combat – so that you can tweak your character’s strengths for each type of encounter, and to make sure the various players in a team complement each other instead of just duplicating each other’s abilities).

            And people still will (and should) think in terms of “maximum DPS”. But dead people do 0 DPS, so survivability (and control, etc.) become part of the things you must do to ensure you can do as much damage as possible, and to defeat the enemies. 

            The objective is still to be as efficient as possible and to defeat the enemies as quickly as possible. 

            You just can’t rely on the enemies being stupid and banging on the tank’s shield for the entire fight, so every player needs to worry about staying alive.

    • http://twitter.com/Eolirin Eolirin

      I think part of the problem is that melee in GW2 does not work like melee in other MMOs. Just because you’re using a melee weapon doesn’t mean you can stand still. You still have to circle strafe constantly, back up out of range of certain things, especially when you’re on cooldown, and make heavy use of dodging. Melee does have certain advantages; it tends to have higher dps and the 1 attacks almost all hit multiple enemies, and many of the melee weapons have good defensive or evasion abilities on them. It helps keep aggro, since distance is one of the primary factors for determining what a mob will go after. Melee has a higher learning curve for sure, but once you get better at it, it becomes quite possible to use melee and barely take any hits at all. 

      Unfortunately, the way that TERA makes the attacks very visible just plain would not work in GW2; they lock you into long attack animations and prevent you from moving while in them. While that works very well for readability and makes the combat reactive, it runs counter to clear design goal in GW2 of making combat mobile; you’d have to take away the ability to move while casting. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      During the first two BWEs melee Warrior did feel disadvantaged vs longbow/rifle but having tried melee warrior again in the stress test it didn’t seem that much different. The biggest difference for me is that the first time around I didn’t bother reading the skill descriptions or enemy animations. At least I learned something from that, randomly mashing keys is not very effective or survivable. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Caliolo/100003765889295 Robert Caliolo

    If I play my Mesmer Sylvari naked. How much will I be gimping myself

    • Volkon

      Why would you want to stare at a naked Sylvari? Feeling a little… thorny?

      • Jay

         *Sigh* I really didn’t see that coming… lol

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          ah, throught you were going with :Didn’t “seed” that coming.

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      You will still have your planties on.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jazzenelya Jazzy EneLya

    When I was level 14, and tried to play with my friends in the Level 5 area, the loot I got were Level 15 and 16. Still perfect for my level. Lol. :D

    • Diequex

      Really? I got lower leveled stuff when I did the same thing, so I thought it wasn’t working ): Guess I was just unlucky 

      • Old Ben

        If you go into lower level areas you generally get gear that is for a level slightly below yours (ex., 1 or 2 levels below you) but not as low as the area itself. 

    • Jay

       Yeah, they really put some thought into the downscaling system, I love it.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        yeah, loved using my Engineer Flame Thrower kit in the lower areas, it is so OP.  Oh wait, that’s not the intention of the sidekick system.

        • Jay

          Well, the game was lot easier in BWE3 than it was supposed to be. ArenaNet said they had a bug in the system making the content a lot easier than it should’ve been. I noticed in the last stress test it was much tougher than BWE3, so I don’t think your flamethrower will be nearly as OP ;)

          BTW my Asura Engineer with a flamethrower is OP by default. Hiding in the grass shooting flames… What’s not to love?

  • Jado Cast

    This was a great episode.  I think Glenn Beck TV, oh I mean, Game Breaker TV is the best show on the interwebs.  LOL  Sorry got my GBTV’s mixed up. :)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_INBXCM4CZFVSPC2ZYINQJAK77Y Methadose

    Powerful! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000457397522 Joni Huumonen

    that ending was great!

  • Sharuko

    I have never played PvP in an MMO that is so clunky, heavy and unbalanced.  GW2 PvP boils down to picking a overpowered spec and spamming 3 buttons.  And that is it, there is not dept to the combat at all.  In WoW you had so many options while PvPing.  You can slow a person trying to kite you, you can trinket a CC, you can even do things like mind control. There were so many conditional abilities.  In GW2 you have no options it is literally just attacks over an over again.

    They failed to put any sort of depth in the game.  Already in beta people are getting fed up of the combat and complaining that it feels zergy and spammy.  And it is just beta.They can’t even balance sPvP when most of the matches were 5 vs 2 and 8 vs 4.  How can a single faction game fail at balancing the number of players in each team.

    This game needs at least a year of polish, it is not ready for primetime.

    • Jay

      Cmon Sharuko… You said you got a refund after the first BWE, so how would you know anything about polish? Have you been listening to the other 5 GW2 trolls in Towelliee’s stream again? You sir, are the one who lacks polish.

      To still be doing this so long after you claimed to get a refund for the game is just starting to look really sad. At first I thought it was funny, but now I worry about you. :(

      Take care of yourself bud, there are far worse things in the world than GW2. I suggest you put this much effort into trying to make people aware of those problems. I’m sure you’d get a much better end result…

    • http://www.facebook.com/marshall.patterson.5 Marshall Patterson

      Then you were either playing the wrong class, or playing the game wrong. Please don’t compare the PvP to WoW again, thanks.

      • pandora005

        He is trolling.

        Sharuko has been whining and moaning about GW2 being horrible for months and he is just wasting our time (and makes me wish there was a way to UNLIKE a comment as Youtube has it).

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Love the PvP in WoW and GW2, such difference approaches.   The variety of strategies, roles and cooperation. Do I play my glass cannon mage or resto druid. The inherent struggles between the Horde and Alliance. Wonder if the cross zone World PVP can deliver, with the system allow Blizzard to keep pialying players into both sides. Some of these maps, Ive played for 5 years.  Hope I get the same level of gameplay out of GW2.

        Yes, lets not compare GW2 and WoW PVP until 2017.

    • Spammerbam

      “You can slow a person trying to kite you, you can trinket a CC, you can
      even do things like mind control. There were so many conditional
      abilities.”

      Actually, you CAN do all of that in GW2 — I know for sure because I played Elementalist and Mesmer, both over level 25. You were level 3 at max, with no access to Utility skills, Traits, and Elite skills, yet you say this game has no depth. I can see why you’re “spamming 3 buttons.”  Go watch some BuildCast.

      I still question, after 2 months since the BWE2 and your refund, you’re still here watching GuildCast; it’s truly amazing. Don’t you ever question why Tera doesn’t have the option to customize your build/role for a single character? Or, why Tera boils down to “Boss fights [that] are tough and fun for the first few minutes of engagement…but then it turns into something that would have to be
      considered [dodging and] button mashing at best”?

      I mean, wow.. troll harder?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1322927144 Lauren Pagan

     29:00 About down-leveling: I just wanted to mention about the curve – on BWE1-2 I got my character to level 43 and I will say that the reduction in exp you get when syncing down I believe is mostly affected by the leveling curve. Remember that their xp curve levels off around 30. So for simple example (not real #s just approx): at level 10 you get 10 xp for a mob. At 20, 20 xp. At 30, 30 xp. At 50, 35 xp. At 80, 40 xp. So when I was level 40 getting 10 xp from a mob, it was pretty low. But going to a level 30 area and getting 30 xp was pretty close to the “normal” 35ish xp I would get from a level 40 mob. At least that’s how it definitely seemed to me when I was wandering around the world. It’s definitely a great system.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      Was the bonus exp scaled similarly?

      • Kai Moseley

        Looked like it, the bonus is to do with how long the mob has been alive though and invariably mobs have been alive longer in higher level zones in the beta weekends.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

          Well it’s hard to tell unless you have someone else with you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1322927144 Lauren Pagan

    If anyone hits 80 before the head start actually ends (some one will) they should get an achievement / feat of strength that says “I was 80 before it was cool” and a free pair of hipster glasses.

    I must do this now.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITHF7XKYGVXFAPCDMDJTKHLBBU Lian Wan

      This doesn’t seem all that hard. Got to lv8 during the stress test and that was not really trying since I knew it was going to end soon. On top of that I was soloing. With a group I could level much faster than that. On the other hand I hope they have learned from their GW1 experience and avoid putting in ‘limited time only’ titles.

    • pandora005

      The achievement should be: “I HAVE NO LIFE” …

      • Jay

         I know people using vacation time just for the launch of GW2. Pretty sure they have wives and kids too… Just sayin, 3 days is a lil quick to assume something like that.

        There are WoW players who played almost everyday for years… YEARS.

        • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

          Did I missing something, is that unusual?  So much to do in WoW.  Still working on some mounts, pets and titles for my resto druid before MoP.

          • Jay

             3 days of power leveling is nothing… Definitely not considered a “no lifer” compared to other habits.

          • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

            Sadly, have heard the stories of gamers doing enough drugs to power level for 3 days, no breaks, no sleep.

          • Jay

             Bath Salts??

          • pandora005

            Do you really think these guys will “just do 3 days to get to 80″ and then play only an hour a day? Who are you kidding here?

        • pandora005

          I am speaking from personal WoW experience and after I quit it felt like wasted time. Thus anyone who takes the “I must complete it as fast as possible” route is an idiot and addicted to computer games IMO. Thus the “no life” aspect, because once the power on the servers is turned off (it doesnt matter if it is in 10 or 20 years) every achievement is gone.

          The only “healty” way to enjoy games like this is to a) not play it as a kid/teenager (because you have to develop your real life social skills during that time) and b) do it “for fun” and not to have the biggest d… errr bragging rights on your server.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        They check into rehab, after their drug use to stay up for ? days.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robbert-de-Wilde/1806039882 Robbert de Wilde

      No, because this game unlike EVERY other MMOPRG, is NOT about getting to Max level. Why is that so freaking hard to understand. :D

      • Diequex

        Why not? It’s not like people who got to 80 can’t go back and explore content they may have missed. Some people simply like getting to max level quickly.

        I don’t understand ‘prestige’ myself, but…js. I personally don’t think most MMOs are about getting to max level anyhow, that’s for a minority of people who enjoy end game raiding.

      • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

        Some people love the first game, let them enjoy it.   I’m always amazed how fast folks do this.

        First to 80
        First to all dungeon explorable modes
        First legendary
        First to finish 100% completion

  • http://twitter.com/Addy_711 Adam M

    lol best ending ever! Great show as always…it’s release month, woot!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002232851839 Chad Temple

    The dungeon vid would have been better if Mike S wasn’t trying to overdue the voice over. 

  • JJGlyph

    I love how his eyes at the ending go from staring at the camera, to his computer monitor. He must have missed the button to shut it down. =)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robbert-de-Wilde/1806039882 Robbert de Wilde

    I’ll buy a handful of gems every months JUST to support ArenaNet :)

    • http://twitter.com/dularr Dularr

      Good idea, finish up the bag slots, character slots and put a little away for WvW.

      Not sure what to finish up after a few months.

  • Ian Mansfield

    with those Veteran mobs I feel we will definitively have hard PvE experiences really most anytime we want it, then with other larger world bosses like the shadow behemoth there will be a much more difficult things to do.  I do hope they have time limits on the world bosses. Now Question, in an expansion what do you think the kickers will be. I know WoW has new races and worlds, while GW1 had new classes and worlds. then some just go with new dungeons and weapons (very basic). I feel the new races and distant lands will be a choice but yea if they do add new races what races can you see added and maybe will they add races we haven’t ever seen before as well as new areas we never saw before (both in GW1 and 2)?

  • DoctorOverlord

    Good podcast guys! That ending made me laugh :)

    It’s good to point out that ArenaNet has a history to show they do provide new content.   Great point about SWTOR Scott.   I’m so sick of hearing the excuse that subs are needed for new MMO content.  We’ve seen that proved to be baloney so often in recent years I’m amazed some people think it’s a legitimate reason.

    Another excellent point about cross-server PvP and how it always ends up happening anyway.    Armchair designers talk about how that destroys community but looking at reality shows that ArenaNet’s choice makes sense.

    I’d also like to see some PvE dynamic events that were much harder. I rather liked the charr shaman in the earlier BWE that was just killing hordes of players in a low level zone. I was disappointed when they nerfed him, I didn’t think that was too early to experience that kind of difficulty, there was plenty of other stuff that was easier.

    Hopefully we’ll get that same experience of coming across a dynamic event and seeing a field of dead bodies and realizing that you’re in for a really tough fight.
    I liked Mike S’ testing of ArenaNet’s claims.   You should make this a regular article but do it for other games (MMO and otherwise) to test developer’s claims. 

    Nice calling Suna Oruc on that BS question about character customization. They have no clue what they’re talking about and I was good to see everyone on the show pointing it out. 

    And Gary, I think you would make awesome infomercials for GW2 :)

  • http://twitter.com/overbyte overbyte

    enough with the swtor jibes guys – i’ve stopped watching the republic because of it, don’t make me stop watching guildcast as well please.

  • SiderFace

    I have a crush on Ree Soesbee.

    …Its not supposed to be related.

  • balls deep

    lmao funniest episode ever

  • http://twitter.com/Bawheidbob Robbie Paul

    Brilliant show.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jan-Lappalainen/882015623 Jan Lappalainen

    the basis for all teamwork is assigning roles – I’m sure “no trinity” doesn’t mean that people arent assigned roles in dungeons, but more that characters arent rigidly tied to specific roles. I think Scott was trying to say this, but he made it sound more like there are no roles – I wouldnt play through a multi-player dungeon like that cause that would mean that no teamwork is needed.

  • Nate Amaral

    That was a memorable exit!