Not An MMO?

This week on TWIMMO; The Elder Scrolls Online is not an MMO? And, E3′s coming up.

Okay guys… So, ESO game director Matt Firor spoke with Games Reactor about the game and we MMO players started making faces about it. Particularly this little item:

[quote]This is more a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game than an MMO. [You'll see] very limited UI, nice and clean, not a lot of bars. The combat system is very much action-based. It’s also soloable. You can solo almost the entire game. We wanted to get Elder Scrolls players who were unfamiliar with online games and MMO terms to get in, play, have fun and get introduced to the multiplayer aspects.[/quote]

Taken together, this doesn’t sound too bad for MMO players, does it? It’s just that very first sentence. Right? The game description actually sounds like stuff we’d look forward to in most current MMOs. However, Matt continues with:

[quote]We promote that you’re the hero, you get to make choices, because even if you’re in a group and you’re talking to a NPC, and they give you a choice – that choice is yours. Not your group; there are no group decisions in this game.[/quote]

This does make the game sound very singleplayer oriented. And for the MMO community, that is a bit of off-putting. But it does make a bit on sense if you’re trying to appeal to the traditionally single player community.

E3 incoming!

E3 is next week and the guys discuss what they’re looking forward to. In fact, Gary and Scott will be there and we may even have a special TWIMMO for you live from the convention. Of course, this means our schedule will be a bit screwy next week so keep an eye to our socials so you don’t miss a thing.

All that and more!

Also, don’t forget, we love your viewer questions — especially video ones. If you have a question you’d like answered on the show, send them to  Remember to make video questions 30 seconds long and upload them to YouTube. Then send us the link via email.
As always, if you missed last week’s episode you can check it out here.
GBTV General Manager
  • Trixstir

    Ya 12m people bought skyrim but how many of them do you think where probably mmo players

    • Torguish

      I bought Skyrim day 1.
      Have all DLC.
      I play MMORPGs, have played pretty much the most in my life.
      Not gonna buy ESO.

      • Dularr

        Doesn’t look like Skyrim?
        Doesn’t look like a good MMO?

        • Torguish

          It looks, to me, Elder Scroll-ish..
          But that’s just it. I actually loved the fact that Skyrim was single player, i could generate my own story and really role play.

          It just doesn’t seem the mmorpg for me, i’m more in for Wildstar and keeping an eye on that because it mostly has everything i want from an MMO, assuming they can pull it off that is.. :P

          But i can’t promise i won’t test this game out. It just hasn’t convinced me in ANY way yet. Nothing is ”that” special. Except open world instances. That seems kick ass. But that isn’t enough for me.. :)

          Unless the game is really impressive in some ways i have yet to see, then i will give it a shot. But right now, i can’t see myself buying it.

          • INKS

            wildstar is missing some sort of wvw or ava for me. All this solo talk does worry me though,

          • Torguish

            Warplots. :)

    • bisqquit

      That guy below

    • Torguish

      Also, keep in mind that a big portion of those people bought skyrim on the consoles, which might not mean anything when it comes to the sales of ESO. If you are making an assumption that when you buy Skyrim then you probably will buy ESO.. :)

  • Trixstir

    With the public dungeons coming we can Welcome back the good ole /shout Camp check.

  • Alfonso Agostino Carbone

    I just see ESO as a strange copy of GW2

    • zardon3001

      Except they seem to be making horrible decisions that punish group play. Not very GW2 like imo.

    • Dularr

      Seems nothing like GW2.

  • Jason Hall

    Really wish I could skip past all the ESO stuff. Game is so uninteresting I cant even finish….

  • David

    From what I hear from the show I will not be buying ESO!!!!!

  • jayknows

    eve got there starting agents in there i started eve last week and i’m injoying myself greatly

  • Mark T. Russell

    MMO fan here that will not be buying ESO.

  • Depravity

    Whenever people are hanging on that “12 million copies sold” argument nobody’s mentioning that number is across all platforms. Only around 15% of those are PC sales. And when you realize that, the whole “massive fan base” rationale is thrown out of the window immediately.

    Forget Swtor, TESO is gonna hit the bottom of the shitter so hard Bethesda and Zenimax will be smelling ass while breathing for a long, long time.

    • Sally Bowls

      It will be available for XBone, PS4, Mac and PC – that should cover almost all the bases.

  • Deacon1979

    You do that when Matt Firor said its more like elder scrolls multiplayer than an mmo, he was specifically asked by the interviewer, what they are doing to draw in non mmo fans?

  • IchbinVol

    Im a huge Elder Scrolls fan, and an mmo fan. The two just don’t mix. Its a different experience, almost across the board. Im actually happy about it being a “multiplayer” ES. I was really hoping they’d never have the three alliances with a boring WvW in the middle of the map. Gimme faction-based combat (thieves guild vs mage guild, etc). That whole aspect is an obvious pander to the thick browed pvper that ultimately ruins any game they put their hands on.

    MMOs have just become this, “Im better than you”-fest which ruins immersion & good story. If I wanted to climb the corporate ladder, I’d do it in real life.. ya know, where it matters. At least ESO will have a survey system which will hopefully eliminate the 80% of douchebags that I play with.

    To me, having that middle ground, where you can play with a few like-minded ppl, is perfect for an immersion based game.
    To all those hardcore ppl… Sry that thousands of ppl wont see your sweet shoulderpads… don’t let the door hit ya on the way out.

    • LastChanceFood

      hahaha someone’s ego is bruised. man you got a thin skin huh. did somebody mock your softcore? bahahahah cry more.

      dont let the tissue bruise your cheek when you wipe the tears ;)

      • IchbinVol

        How can I have a bruised ego, when I don’t care about it? Its all the hardcore players that get their ego’s bruised constantly, and they let the players around them know it constantly.

    • the founderx

      Awww did someone get called a baddie? lol cmon man there are therapists for that kind of insecurity.

      • IchbinVol

        Never been called a baddie, actually. Just tired of ppl treating a game like a job. Sure you can notice that.

  • HartsHope

    paying monthly subscription for a co-op Skyrim? meh think ill pass.

    i play MMOs for the social, grouping, teamwork with other many players aspect.

    “soloing the entire game” makes vomit rise in my throat. and there are ton of action based combat games now with combat that looks more refined and fluid than ESO.

  • Rich E.

    We’ve seen how poorly jamming a single player into a MMO works… SWOTR and the ridiculously bland GW2.

    Now Zenimax is doing the opposite… shoehorning a MMO into a single player game.

    square pegs in round holes. mixing oil and water.

    and we have to pay monthly? think i’ll pass

    • IchbinVol

      - “the ridiculously bland GW2.”

      I’m guessing someone’s e-penis couldn’t get any larger in that one. Sry that you couldn’t get that 10-15 extra pts in dex more than everyone else.

      • Dularr

        Guild Wars 2 is a really pretty game, with enjoyable combat. But the world is as deep as a wet floor.

        • LastChanceFood

          ya that about sums GW2 up. gorgeous game. puts me to sleep.

        • Ravenstorm

          Hahaha! Good one

      • Rich E.

        what does GW2′s blandness got to do with my penis?

        boring game, period…. probably why its player activity is so low. Raptr doesnt even rank it in the top 15. nobody watches it on Twitch. but i guess polling sites dont mean anything huh. like neilsen ratings dont mean anything to tv.

        apparently for you, GW2 is awesome. glad you got something to fill the void

        • Scifi

          GW2 PvP scene is ramping up, pve and wvw wise it has a decent growing population, servers and world boss intances are full…(and btw who cares about Raptr).

          So just because you dont like a game that doesnt mean its failing. I do agree that the game has its shortcomings like a lack of guild and group oriented content.

          But let me trow this into the air, imagine doing Jormag like a 20 man raid, sudenly hardcore content.

          The problem the game has its the fixation on the openworld and open dungeon style encounters.

        • Scifi

          GW2 pvp scene is ramping up, the population is growing on the WvW scene… (And who cares about raptr).

          Just because you hate the game that doesnt mean its failing.

          Let me throw this up into the air, imagine doing Jormag as a 20 man raid, sudenly hardcore content.

          There are bosses in the world with great mechanics that should be done on a raid like instance.

          The problem with GW2 its the focus on openworld content, witch fails due to the amount of people that trivialize everything you do, everything just becomes 100% easyer and faster to do because of the cheer amount of people.

        • Bob Dobalina

          On Raptr and XFire, GW2 is STILL the second most popular MMO, so don’t know what you’re talking about there.

          • the founderx

            hmm Massively just ran an article about Raptr’s Top 20 games played in all of May. GW2 was like 20th soooo you sound wrong there

          • Bob Dobalina

            What part of second most popular MMO on Raptr didn’t you understand? All the other games above it were console shooters.

          • the founderx

            lol no. Rift, WoW, Neverwinter, all were above GW2. and SWOTR was almost tied with it. So basically GW2 is tied for 4th. damn cant you count?

  • Dularr

    Well, it’s like sausages. When asked to describe a sausage, talk about how it looks and tastes, but don’t explain how sausages are made. You don’t want to know.

    When asked how this will attract the Elder Scrolls fan, explain the heroic ES story, action combat, familiar open world and choices that give a permanence to the world.

    Lots of MMO’s do the breadcrumb questlines, with NPC or structures that only your character can see. The NPC can be phased, the structures can be phase, but that is not what makes it an Elder Scrolls game.

  • the founderx

    Soloing the entire game? For my solo player experience I’d much rather play all the awesome community mods for Skyrim. massive amount of phasing that will complicate playing even with my friends and guildmates? subscription fee and a box price that im sure will be like 60$? not to mention whatever other MMO features will be lacking because apparently its NOT a MMO?

    ESO smells like suck.

    EQnext… so tired of hearing Smedley boast this. time to show us something. and man, it better be good cuz that was ALOT of boasting. And after they allowed that awful EQ2 get made, I fear for the worst. Seriously, i feel like Everquest is a sacred relic that shouldnt be fucked with. please, its been tarnished enough. EQNext! please be awesome!!

  • Evilevi501

    Zero interest in ESO as an MMO fan. Too many other games launching with much more potential to waste my time with an RPG co-op.

    2 cents

  • Christian K

    What did Skyrim have that ESO will not? XBOX. ESO will not raise the “MMO ceiling”.

    • Sally Bowls


      TESO was announced for PS4 and XBone.

      • Christian K

        Yep. Announced after my comment. Also, it means that I won’t be playing this game. Luckily this simplifies matters for me, and makes it more likely the game will be successful.

    • Kichwas

      xBox One might be best avoided anyway…
      Unless you think Orwell’s 1984 was too free of a society.

  • Rasmus Nielsen

    They’ve said Finesse will work well, in Dungeons etc. Because people will be fighting more than one mob at a time.

  • Sally Bowls

    This makes a bit more sense to me. I.e. I was expecting it to have the SWTOR problems with MMO players and rpg players both complaining.

    Perhaps making a choice has a better shot of being successful than the traditional “we are going to doing everything well and in great depth” claims.

    Besides, while there is a lot to criticize in WoW, it is hard to see how a new game can compete with WoW’s endgame raiding. If you want WoW raids, WoW is going to do better than TESO or SWTOR or Wildstar; why not pick something else to compete on?

    If I can have fun getting a character to max level, then I don’t mind if there is no daily quest hub to get rep to get entry raid gear. A game instead of a career would be justfine.

  • Dularr

    Starting to wonder if large scale combat in ESO suffered some serious problems in testing. Causing the developer to pull back and re-think calling it a MMO.

    Probably recognized they had a good single player game (which shouldn’t be a surprise, it is ES), and decided to capitalize on their strengthen.

  • Xoa Wolf

    At 1:03:45 I do believe you mean Neverquest. =p

  • Kichwas

    What I said on the article about Elder Scrolls from a few days back (but saw this morning so only posted recently):


    I think its a good things.

    BUT I also predict Elder Scrolls fans will be in a for RUDE shock when ‘MMO players’ show up on their forums and demand to know ‘WTF, where mah endgamez at?’ and ‘WTF, no raids!?!?!’ and ‘WTF, no dungeons?’

    - As a Guild Wars 2 player, it seems our forums have been taken over by these types, DESPITE the game saying for years it was not for them…

    Its the nature of an MMO, that people will come to it expecting hentai elves, klingon orcs, two factions, raids, and ‘Blizzard’ on the cover somewhere, and if they don’t get it, they will scream bloody murder about the game being all wrong and having lied to them. But cater to them one inch, and the fans who were listening will scream about being lied to just as much…

    Not ‘even having’ instanced dungeons – cool move, could go very well or very wrong (*). They will get endless praise for it pre-launch, and be trolled for years over it post-launch.

    (*) I say very wrong because in every MMO to date, world bosses have been a failure. Too many players show up resulting in enemy mechanics failing to have meaningful impact. A boss swing can faceplant 10-20 players in one hit on a GW2 dragon or WoW open world raid and -nobody- even notices…
    - and lag gets so severe half your players can’t hit their actions, the other half need to turn graphics down so far they can’t see any of the effects anyway… And it turns into a meaningless loot pinata. Go there, auto-attack, get top game loot, move to the next one.

    If they don’t limit the number of players that can show up, it will be a disaster. If they do, it will get called out as unfair when those people lock it and the rest can’t play it…

    no-win situation.

    If they can solve that, MMOs will move forward in a big way. But I’m not sure you can solve the problem of bandwidth from inside the game…


    On the phasing in escorts and such… this just seems like a mess waiting to happen.

    WoW was very proud of phasing when they added it in Wrath. They seem to have largely dropped it like a rock of late – limiting it to small specific areas where it is a benefit, but clearing it out of the way of the open world.

    - They’ve changed on that for a reason.

    Like it or not, people WILL insist on playing with their friends in an online game. If you hinder this by phasing everything, your players will get very frustrated with you…

    And the finesse mess… wow. In a bad way. Griefer heaven.

    Its almost like I can see ESO failing already, this long before its even launched.

  • Rob

    I can’t fucking understand you! When you speak at a normal pace, I can’t hear you, and when you speak at a normal volume, I can’t keep up.

    Lose the bullshit pop radio voice.