Words With Devs

This week on Unicorn Duck Shadow Puppet Reddit loves bullet points, WildStar abilities galore and Massively has words with Jeremy Gaffney about gathering and crafting.

So.. It turns out that the WildStar devs want you to have plenty of abilities… Tons of them… Say… About fifty?  Of course, you’ll have to pick six to eight to use at any given time while playing the game. But don’t worry. You can swap them out. Hmm.. This deckbuilding thing is really taking off in MMO’s isn’t it?

That said, it seems that paths will work a bit differently in PvP, but we won’t know exactly how for a little while. This should be interesting to see.

Reddit has all the bullet points!

Well.. At least dozens of them. So, things are a little bit random in the show because of that. But hey! We can work with it, right? So what do these bullet points cover? Well…. Let’s see…. It looks like we have bullets for tab targeting.. Yep.. There’s more than a few of those. Um… Jumping… Auto attack…  and on… and on…

Massively and Jeremy Gaffney have a lot of words to make about crafting and gathering.

 

Let’s see what some of them are!

 

For starter’s.. There’s this.

[quote]“Explodium blows up when you hit it. If you’re fighting a monster near it and hit it with your spells, it will damage you and the monster. Another example is when you’re picking at a small rock and it turns out that the mineral is attached to the back of a large bug that runs away. Now you have to chase it down, knocking materials off it. Or perhaps a creature made from the material swallows you and then you have to knock through the creature’s stomach to escape while harvesting.”[/quote]

I’d like to note that I don’t care if “explodium” is a temporary name. That’s what I’m calling it from now on.

And then there’s this:

[quote]“We’re trying to avoid things like make 17 bronze hammers and 12 golden swords. We have questing, but we want it to be more like achievement-type advancement. I can’t go into it too deep, but we think it’s a fun system. Let me put it like this: You’re growing a garden of plants on the grounds of your housing plot. Maybe sometimes you wake up and you get some rare blooms, or maybe you’ve managed to grow a creature that tries to kill you. We want tradeskills to involve you more than just sitting in an auction house doing the same thing over and over again.”[/quote]

This sounds good, right? At least it will make the grind seem less like grind?

So much more!

There’s so much in this episode of Unicorn Duck Shadow Puppet that I can’t even begin to fit it all in this post. So be sure to watch the video and see it for yourself.  And, as will all our other shows, we adore viewer questions. So, be sure to send yours in to submit@gamebreaker.tv.

GBTV General Manager
  • PortaPunch

    I personally hate differing PvP and PvE gears. Top raiding gear and top PvP gear should have the same stats needed, but look different. So you can do well in either, but make it so the time sink for either is the same. I love to raid, but I’ll occasionally PvP. I PvP less though because I have to lug another set of gear for PvP and have to PvP forever while also sink a lot of time in PvE for that gear. Too much time for me to sink in gearing up.

    • Dularr

      Ah yes, the gear progression MMO PvE vs PvP gear challenge. (While I understand the non-gear based MMO, they don’t keep my attention for very long.)

      If you get the same gear from both, you then force the serious raider to run both content for gear. The serious raider has to run PvP to grind out extra gear, that did not drop from raids. They will raid for 3-4 hours per night and then grind PvP matches to fill out missing armor pieces.

      Plus if you are a serious PvP player, you have to raid for RNG chances for gear, you didn’t earn enough points to buy that week. The PvP player will talk there way on a raid team for gear, so they can save their PvP points for that very special piece.

      The challenge is forcing the serious player to run content they would prefer not to run.

      • Enricola

        I’d pay serious money to hear Gaffney and Ghostcrawler have a backroom conversation about this.

        • Dularr

          That would be incredible. The whole PvE/PvP gear for a MMO is so interesting. So many different solutions out there, all with there strengths and weaknesses.

      • PortaPunch

        Then there needs to be a limit to gear per week you can get. If you receive your max amount of PvP gear for the week, then you are not eligible for PvE gear and vise versa. I would definately not do both things full time anyways, but I did do Arena’s in BC WOW to get some weapons, so I can see why people would PvP to get PvE gear and Vice versa. It is complicated.

    • Duane Lee Hampson

      I dont have an issue with different gear for each, in fact I’d like to see spells also separated. Balancing spells and classes in general to work for pve and pvp has never worked in any mmo thus far. Balance classes for pvp and pve individually in my opinion.

    • Robbert de Wilde

      I completely agree. It’s the one reason I haven’t PvPed in WoW since Vanilla. I don’t understand it, why is my hard earned gear in PvE useless in PvP suddenly and vice versa. It’s just a balancing issue and making sure that when new pve content comes out with better gear, new pvp comes out at the same time.

      And I understand that certain spells, especially CC spells/stuns/free me spells etc have to be more powerful in PvE then in PvP, but they can fix that easily.

  • Depravity

    Kudos to the new show, loving it.

  • guest

    they should put in a feature to make sky-neighborhoods where you link your housing plots together with friends.

  • Kichwas

    Is this show listed on iTunes?

    I often watch your shows on iTunes as it lets me put them into a small window at work above the applications I’m working with (where BTW, I have in past made great use of Shutterstock art, the stock photos are great for company web-work, comps, internal marketing, and sometimes external visuals) – whereas the browser youtube version stays too large for a ‘work screen’. :)

    • http://www.JKKennedyTV.com/ Justin Kennedy

      It will take a while before we can place it on iTunes. Apple does not allow stuff on iTunes till it has reached a certain number of episodes. So it takes a while before it shows.

  • Kichwas

    The taunt in PvP move that makes them do less damage unless they attack you – that is taken straight from table top Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition.

    D&D4e tried to ‘make table top RPG’ more like an MMO, and couldn’t figure out how to do the tank concept – how to convince DMs to make their monsters attack the guy who could survive a hit… so they gave all the ‘tank classes’ this debuffing ability.
    - And that was in about 2008. So if Star Wars uses it, they got it from table top gaming.

    • Dularr

      I don’t think anyone believes the SWTOR PvP guard mechanic was innovating.

      The design just seem to be working for SWTOR. The tank could put guard on another player and absorb damage for them. The tank could then earn rewards based on the amount of damage they mitigated from team members.

      • Kichwas

        Ah ok. I never tried SWTOR because it was a sub-game “back in the day” and simply haven’t come back around to it since. So I was conjecturing based on my limited understanding of what I heard in the podcast. :)

  • Yppa

    Hopefully they will make tab-targeting a way to see your enemies HP, buffs and debuffs. And that it dosnt help you aim the spell in any way.

  • Duane Lee Hampson

    Guildwars 2 almost had it with the whole trinity thing, except they took it too far. I think combat in groups in gw2 is so messy.

    All they needed to do was allow spec changes on the fly from tank>heal>dps so you can make a cohesive group. The trick is getting around the different gear requirements. Hopefully Wildstar allows to to happen.

  • Gavin Vengeance

    I’m all for the “Trinity”, as it’s a system I have enjoyed since the original Final Fantasy for NES. It’s the system that most RPG’s have used, because it works.

    However, I think that if a game is going to avoid the “Trinity” then it needs to be more skillful in terms of gameplay, kinda like Phantasy Star Online 2 in a sense.

  • http://twitter.com/Wild_Scoundrel Tommy

    No trinity meqans the game will never became great with competetive pvp community ! look at that joke gw2. Players want a purpose, and end game raid with no trinity means bye bye And dont allow playes to change spec to easy and never in combat. I think wildstar sounds amazing, just plis dont mess up combat by dumbing it down with a gw2 system. And unlike most of you i’m in EU most hardcore pvp team ranked 1 in swtor etc (left game because bw ignoed pvp playerbase) so we have a clue about these things,trinity was king in wow arenas and it will be king in wildstar arenas, we are waiting for wildstar, dont let us down wildstar.

    • Torguish

      Wow.. talk about elitist.
      Gw2 isn’t a ”joke”. It’s exactly what it’s suppost to be and some people like it and other don’t. I completely see why you don’t like it but it’s a whee bit immature to state things like ”we have a clue about these things” etc. I know a lot of old, hardcore players that actually enjoy GW2 as for what it is. But they tend to play other games aswell. That’s the beauty of it.

      I got bored of GW2 but i consider myself a quite hardcore player, thus i don’t like it that much, it got boring. I played PvP arena in WoW pretty much at the beginning times of those times and got rather high up and i ”have a clue” about holy trinity” like many other people. Hardcore or Casual. I don’t have the time i used to have so..

      Try to be friendly and less of an elitist. Gives a really bad picture of you and your guild. Not to mention it’s still only a game, all of these are. Being the best at these are not the biggest things to brag about really. Sure it’s cool but it’s cool for certain people for a very short time.

      So yeah, just try to understand why people still play Guild Wars 2. Because it’s good in their opinion. Just because you are a beast in PvP, it doesn’t make you any more qualified to judge other peoples opinions, games OR playstyles. OR even make you more qualified to be the judge of what the game should be.. :|

      It should be fun and great for everyone, not only hardcore players, wether you like Guild Wars 2 or not.. :)

      • http://twitter.com/Wild_Scoundrel Tommy

        I respect what your saying :) i just want the game to be all what it can be to trully became i great competetive PvP game, i like many dont want it dumb down and easy like they did with GW2. Some of us like playing piano with 30 active combat skills-see swtor sentinel lol

        • Torguish

          Whoa.. you gave me quite the opposite style of an answer that i was expecting. I have mad respect to you now D:

          But! in guild wars 2′s defense, i find the PvP combat extremely satisfying, especially when playing as Mesmer and managing my illusion output with damage and heals. I can literally fight 3 guys alone without dying for a VERY long time and the fight is also extremely intense even tho i don’t have 30 skills to manage.. :D Not to mention i love to fight with deception and tricking my enemies.. that’s the best. Gives me a feeling i ”outsmart” my opponents.. :D

          But yeah, i get where your coming from. I too want the game to have an extremely awesome and balanced out competitive PvP. I’m mostly worried that can they pull off ALL of this. I mean, this game has so much stuff in it, something WILL be broken. But how, why and for how long is the question for me right now. And that scares me.. :|

          • Dularr

            Your example makes GW2 PvP look terrible. Makes it sound like GW2 has several professions that are seriously over powered in the PvP game.

            If one profession can take on three players without dying, that points to a serious imbalance in the game. Makes it sound like unless you play a OP profession in GW2 PvP, you don’t have a chance to defeat certain professions.

            Of course PvP is satisfying when you play an over powered profession, but that doesn’t mean PvP is well designed or effective in a game.

          • Torguish

            Well my style on gameplay is countered easily not,to mention i will die from the smalles mistake and,it’s literally impossible for me to kill anyone while fighting 3v1. I mostly keep enemies busy.. :D Not to mention i need to look out for aoe spells which is most of them..

            And i dont think Gw2 has a lot of imbalance issues, its pretty much skill based. I was just implyibg that my style of play is through illusions and trickery with which i can survive for the longest against brutal odds. With the risk of gettiing 1 shot by a burst warrior build… :|

    • Kichwas

      The problems of lack of complexity in fight mechanics in GW2 are not trinity related, in my opinion, but just fight mechanic design.

      SOME of the fights in GW2 do have full on ‘raid boss complexity’.

      - Like the ghost graveling in one path of AC:Exp, the new Null boss in Southsun, the twin boss fight in Molten Furnace (that some folks -did- manage to burn through ignoring the mechanic), and a couple others.

      The problem they have is that all too often the developers just opted for a boss that is a health sink, stands in places, and does a whopper attack with a visible cue now and then. So players have learned they can just ‘have enough toughness to face-smash it’ or enough dodging to DPS it and avoid hits, or range and walk out of red circles before the effects they warn of trigger.

      This is not unique to GW2, half the bosses in WoW are just as easy to take out with no thought for any variety of tactics or strategy.

      Anytime you do a boss design you have to balance between ‘straight combat’ and ‘gimmick’. Force the gimmick too much and people feel like their on Heigan’s dance: Do the steps in the right order and too easy, do one step wrong and wipe – your class skill and progression feel meaningless.

      On the other hand, fail to force the gimmick enough, and it just feels like a trash pull that has more health…

      Many MMOs have boss gimmick tuned so strongly but yet so predictable, a boss timer addon can simply call out ‘click red button now’ for an EZ-mode win. These games have trinities, but end up even more simplified than GW2′s non-trinity.

      The attack on the ‘trinity’ or lack of it is a side show distraction against the real issue: Devs of almost every MMO need to go back to ‘boss design school’… and simply make encounter that are:

      1. Less predictable so no timer can run the fight.

      2. Enable players to use abilities on their characters for effect.
      3. Not have external gimmicks trump character abilities in importance.
      4. Not have character abilities be so reliable that external gimmicks can be ignored.
      5. Telegraphs be not so slow that even the AFK players can avoid them.
      6. Telegraphs be not so fast that they are not possible to react to.

      For 5 and 6: that means no more than a single ‘cooldown / action’. It flashes, you get to press an ability, and that’s it before the trigger.

      For 3 and 4: this means gimmicks need to be there so bosses are not the same as trash pulls, but they need to be mixed with regular skill use for equal importance.

      For 2: this means things other than direct damage need to be required on any boss fight. Be it “this is the guy you have to CC” or “this is the guy you have to DoT” or “this is the guy you need to reflect”.

      For 1: Simply no bosses that ‘always do X when Y occurs’. No simple switch statement or ‘if else’ loop bosses. They need a slightly more complex AI than that… Have them have a chance to use abilities out of order. On a non-trinity game, random aggro switches “some of the time”. A chance the boss will try some defensive move. A chance the boss will move in a different direction. A chance the boss will kite differently or break from the kite with an aggro reset.
      - Essentially any boss action should have a 5 or 10% chance to instead do something else on their list of abilities, just to prevent it being a known thing.

      But none of that has anything to do with a trinity or not.

      And those are just first blush ideas on ways to make bosses more ‘dynamic’.

  • Torguish

    Double jump BLINK! MAKEITHAPPEN!
    Hopefully i can use blink like i could in WoW. Jump of a HUGE cliff and blink on the ground with no damage. That was awesome.. :)

  • lobs

    dat into music. Le fuck.

  • diceman

    If my memory serves me correctly, the term “trinity” originated in
    everquest, where it didn’t refer to tank, healers and DPS, rather it
    referred to tank, healer, enchanter(mana regen).

    If you were one
    of those oles you had not problem LFG, yet if you were a DPS class you
    could sit in plane of knowledge and spam for a group for hours and
    never get an invite.

  • Robbert de Wilde

    I see what Scott is saying when it comes to the people rage when someone comes into a raid with PvP gear that is better then their PvE gear and vice versa. But Those people need to just get off their fucking high horse. The only reason I would get annoyed as a raider by a PvPer being better geared then me is if he had to put in less effort then me. But if they balance it right, lets say epic tier 1 40 man loot is equal to top 100 PvP rated gear, then I have NO problem with it whatsoever, in fact I welcome it.